Today’s Strib article, “The times alter the campus hue,” about the growing diversity of Minnesota colleges, or at least Gustavus Adolphus College and Augsburg College, raises some questions.
1. Is it OK to refer to diversity as “hue” (in or out of a headline)?
2. Who are “students of color”?
3. If LGBT students are “students of color” is “hue” still relevant?
4. Do all Latina students have children?
5. Are there enough Latina students with children to to justify the photo as representative of the diversity?
6. Would a white student with a child increase a school’s diversity?
7. Did the writer talk to more than one faculty member and two students?
8. Is an increase of 11 “black guys” in 4 years a lot?
9. Did this come straight from a Minnesota Private College Council or Admission Possible press release?
10. What is the point of the article?
December 22, 2009 at 7:56 am
I’m all for good media criticism, so I’m going to choose to take this list of ten questions as genuine questions rather than a snarky and inaccurate shot on this article. So here are my answers, in the interest of an intellectual exchange of ideas:
1. Is it OK to refer to diversity as “hue” (in or out of a headline)? Yes.
2. Who are ‚Äústudents of color‚Äù? Anyone who isn’t white.
3. If LGBT students are ‚Äústudents of color‚Äù is ‚Äúhue‚Äù still relevant? Where does it say LGBT students are students of color? I don’t understand the question.
4. Do all Latina students have children? Yes. Come on. Really?
5. Are there enough Latina students with children to to justify the photo as representative of the diversity? I didn’t know that photos in newspapers are now expected to be representative. They’re supposed to convey an emotion, tell a story, draw you into the article. Perhaps it’s a picture of someone quoted in the piece. I saw four other photos on the side of the page, so certainly the photos were far more far than that shot.
6. Would a white student with a child increase a school‚Äôs diversity? I’d say yes, but not in a manner that would show up in the statistics being discussed in the article. The article was all about race.
7. Did the writer talk to more than one faculty member and two students? Did you read the article? I counted four students, and four faculty members.
8. Is an increase of 11 “black guys” in 4 years a lot? If you were one of the initial 3 or 4, I would say going to 15 would be significant.
9. Did this come straight from a Minnesota Private College Council or Admission Possible press release? It seemed to be a rather extensively researched and reported story to me.
10. What is the point of the article? IF we care about the achievement gap between white and non-white students in our grade schools and high schools, then it is noteworthy that more non-white students are enrolling in college. If we care about the income gap between white and non-whites, or the incarceration rate, than we should care about the fact that more non-whites are going to Minnesota colleges. The fact that white students are asking about diversity, would indicate that as Minnesota’s colleges become more diverse, we’re keeping those students in Minnesota schools, which makes them more likely to work in Minnesota and live here and contribute.
December 22, 2009 at 8:03 am
This is my last comment on MNspeak this decade.
Like, whoa.
Boobs.
December 22, 2009 at 8:28 am
Did an editorial comment sneak into this story?
“Colleges and universities aren’t as good at graduating students of color as they are white students.”
I’m pretty sure colleges and universities love to graduate a high percentage of students that enroll, but how much should they be blamed (I guess in this case, by the newspaper) for students who drop out or fail? A fair number of white kids drop out to, I’m sure. Most of the slackers I hung out with didn’t finish.
December 22, 2009 at 8:55 am
Other than the eyebrow-raising quote about the number of African-American students at Gustavus, I didn’t see too much wrong with the article, except they failed to answer one of the vital “Five Ws” questions every reporter (and editor) is taught to ask: Why?
The headline suggests “the times” are responsible for the increase in minority students at Minnesota colleges. What times? The Era of Obama? The recession? While both are suggested as reasons why minority enrolement is up sharply, there is no evidence or hard numbers offered. Perhaps the answer isn’t known — it certainly isn’t after reading this article.
I think I understand Cristina’s point on Miss Ponce de Leon photo being used for this article — she believes it re-enforces negative stereotypical images of Latinas as “Baby Mamas from the Barrio.” It’s the photographic equlivant of a headline like: “Black Family In White House Surprisingly Stable, White Neighbor Reports.”
Then again, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Had the Strib reporter’s name been, say, Maria Lopez, whould she have picked another subject to represent the changing face of Minnesota’s college student. Maybe. Maybe not.
December 22, 2009 at 8:58 am
Good point, Rat. That’s a broad statement, although I assume there’s data to back up this assertion: Black, American Indian and Hispanic students are more likely to attend part time and less likely to graduate than white or Asian students, according to the Minnesota Office of Higher Education.
I wish media did a better job at linking to the primary sources of data and information. I’ve been trying to do more of that when I write my Good Question stories for the web. I usually have the web tabs open as I write my stories- it’s no big deal to link to the information.
December 22, 2009 at 9:13 am
Here’s some interesting data I found, of all places, a GAO report to Congress*. It’s a couple years old, and suggests that this trend has been happening for some time.
“More students are enrolling in college than ever before, and an
increasingly larger percentage of all students are minorities.
Between the 1995-1996 and 2006-2007 school years, overall enrollment
in U.S. higher education institutions increased by about 19 percent, or
more than an estimated 2.2 million students. During this same time
period, the percentage of students studying full-time increased from 58
percent to 62 percent.
At the same time, minority enrollments have increased at a much faster
rate than White enrollments. Between school years 2000-2001 and 2006-
2007, enrollment of Hispanic students grew the fastest, increasing by
approximately 25 percent. During the same time period, Black and
Asian/Pacific Islander enrollments both increased by approximately 15
percent. In contrast, the enrollment growth for White students was less
than 3 percent.”
* http://edlabor.house.gov/documentation/20071220GAOReport.pdf
December 22, 2009 at 9:16 am
I still don’t understand why that somehow is a failing of the college, Jason. The school is there to provide an atmosphere of learning. It’s up the student, any student to take advantage of it. That’s why I’ve always said no matter where a school is, if there’s holes in the walls, or not enough books in the library, a kid can still get an education.
I guess I’m seeing this somewhat through the prism of my wife, who, after years of work finished her Master’s Degree just last night by giving a presentation up in Duluth. She works at one of the big banks downtown, which has pretty much paid for her education, and would do it for just about any other employee. How many take advantage of $5K per year that the bank is willing to flat-out give them. Let’s just say, not many.
December 22, 2009 at 9:36 am
Hey, congrats to your wife, Rat! I too take advantage of my companies education stuff, and found out that at least three other people have been doing so as well, inspired in part by me. Free stuff! Yeah!
December 22, 2009 at 9:37 am
companies –> company’s
Heh. So much for edumacation
December 22, 2009 at 9:41 am
Rat, I guess it depends on how you look at education. Should schools be trying to tailor the way they teach in order to give each student the best shot at success? Or should they teach, and we as students have the responsibility to figure it out? I can see both sides.
Is there a systemic problem that is leading to a disparity in graduation rate within the colleges? Beats me. But if the goal is to get the highest percentage of students to succeed — then I guess the schools have to take some responsibility.
December 22, 2009 at 9:42 am
“That‚Äôs why I‚Äôve always said no matter where a school is, if there‚Äôs holes in the walls, or not enough books in the library, a kid can still get an education.”
They *CAN*, but you seriously underestimate how much more difficult those issues make it to accomplish.
But then, I’m not sure this is either here or there in relation to your question.
December 22, 2009 at 9:46 am
As I have mentioned before, Mrs. Lungs is back at school (evenings) working on a paralegal degree. What she noticed right away wasn’t so much racial or gender diversity, but age diversity, with the classes being about 50% tradional college-age students and the other half older students like herself.
December 22, 2009 at 9:49 am
@Jane. She’s pretty excited to have finished. She’s nervous about speaking in public, but she pulled it off like a champ last night. Was pretty proud of her.
December 22, 2009 at 9:54 am
Bob, Where is she doing the paralegal training?
December 22, 2009 at 9:56 am
“Should schools be trying to tailor the way they teach in order to give each student the best shot at success?”
I think that’s much more the case in elementary school, junior high and high school. But no one is supposed to get out of college easy. Colleges should basically say: “here are your tools” (to quote Al Gore)
December 22, 2009 at 10:00 am
Yesterday on MPR there was a discussion about financial aid and student success and all that. One of the barriers many students have at the MNSCU schools it that parents are counted on your financial aid application until you are 24 regardless if you live with them or they support you in anyway. I’d speculate that students of color and immigrants have a harder time getting participation from parents on the necessary forms and have a lower instance of getting help from the parents that is expected from the schools’ financial aid departments. This leads to students working a job or two or three to pay for education, which leads to dropping out.
I went to Morris and believe it or not, it is one of the most diverse schools in Minnesota. I believe the reasoning is two fold. First, there is a strong committment to diversity that includes heavily recruting in highly minority high schools in places like Chicago and El Paso. Secondly, there is a strong committment from the school and the Minority Student Center to get students of color scholarships, help in adjusting to small town life and the cold, and academic helps. Oh, and free tuition for anyone of American Indian descent also helps increase numbers.
December 22, 2009 at 10:08 am
The Strib reporter who wrote this stry is tweeting about it now. Here’s her latest:
One student in that story, Tereza Ponce de Leon, has a blog about her 1st-year exp: http://csopportunityscholars.org/tereza-ponce-de-leon/
December 22, 2009 at 10:24 am
I agree with DeRusha.
Cristina, what are you implying here? A poorly written article or a racially insensitive one? I see neither.
December 22, 2009 at 10:27 am
Via Twitter, reporter Jenna Ross just told me that the colleges have been actively recruiting minority students for some years to keep pace with the changing face of America.
These Interweb thingies are pretty cool. I think it will catch on with the public some day.
December 22, 2009 at 10:36 am
@Rat: I agree with your premise, as it also applies to secondary schools; not just colleges/universities.
But, sheesh, isn’t this an argument that appears every decade or so? In the meantime, the racial disparities continue to plague our education systems. Somewhere along the line (and I have an idea when), the attitude toward curricula and the degree track (secondary as well as post-secondary) morphed from the achievement of knowledge fundamentals (e.g. learning how to learn) into an almost-purely vocational pursuit. Education-by-rote is probably great when it comes to taking tests; I don’t think very highly of its value, though, as a good foundation for improving ones’ quality of life in the long-term.
December 22, 2009 at 10:42 am
Not implying actually. I don’t have the answers at all. Just raising the questions. It made me think is all.
December 22, 2009 at 10:44 am
By the way. I don’t actually think the Latina mom stereotype is a negative one either.
But, Jason, I have indeed heard LGBT students referred to as students of color many many times.
These are only questions, people, genuine questions. Not trying to be snarky at all.
I honestly just didn’t know how to feel about it at all, and it made me question all of the above, so I thought I toss it out to the folks with all the answers.
There is, however, something I find unsettling about the article ‚Äî but I think it has more to do with the general isn’t-it-great-that-we’re-now-even-educating-back-men-and-Latina-moms tone. Not that it isn’t great, but fuck, do we really still deserve a pat on the back for it!
I think that maybe, just maybe, at this stage in the game, if schools are getting a pat on the back for finally stepping up efforts to recruit minorities it really needs to come hand-in-hand with the fact that they’ve failed to do so prior to now ‚Äî in other words, the negative with the positive, rather than just a pat on the back. Maybe. Just maybe.
December 22, 2009 at 12:12 pm
The presence of GLBT students on ANY campus is not part of change, “hue” or not. LOL. There are not MORE GLBT students simply because the campus claims to embrace “diversity”. They are there in the same numbers they always have been. No change is detectable.
December 22, 2009 at 12:29 pm
No change is detectable? Except many more GLBT folk may be “out of the closet” than in years past.
That, and Obama is turning America’s kids gay.
December 22, 2009 at 12:34 pm
@justpbob: Yup. My take, too, re: out of the closet.
But I thought it was Republicans like Larry Craig who were turning America’s kids gay? Are they the ones chasing the Congressional pages around? When was the last good Democratic gay sex scandal?
December 22, 2009 at 12:37 pm
Wha…? Hey man, I’m just minding my own business; leave me alone.
December 22, 2009 at 12:40 pm
If minority kids are not graduating at a reasonable rate, that might point to the fact that they are not qualified to be at a given college or university. Admittance to college should be based on merit not race. Articles like this diminish the success of minorities that do deserve to be at college and are succeeding based on their merit and academic achievement.
December 22, 2009 at 12:49 pm
or there could be a cultural bias at work at colleges.
or there could be a streak of racism flowing through college campuses.
or the high schools students of color attend don’t properly prepare them for college so they don’t have much of a chance.
but swandog, you are probably right. students of color are probably not qualified to be at college. they are probably less intellegent than their white counterparts. that’s not racist at all.
December 22, 2009 at 1:12 pm
Noodleman: That would be Jim McGreevey, the former Governor of New Jersey.
kc, the swandoggy said “not qualified,” not “incapable.” Big difference. I hope he doesn’t mean the later.
December 22, 2009 at 1:46 pm
“Admittance to college should be based on merit not race.”
The efforts to recruit diversity to a school has always sort of made me wonder. If an institution offers the same programs, tuition, to all groups, why must the school actively recruit people from different groups? Is the college doing something to disuade certain groups from attending?
December 22, 2009 at 1:58 pm
I have always wondered as a white, middle class straight male, can I really understand the life experience of my fellow citizens who don’t fall into my demographic group.
I didn’t see any indication that anyone was be disccourage to enroll in college, baker.
If going to college isn’t very common in your family, your culture, or your peer group, you might need some extra encoragement to give it a try. By the way, I’m the first in my immediate family to attend college.
Heard a good interview by a local woman of Hmong decent who said she never really saw herself doing anything but marrying young and keeping the house clean (tradional duties of Hmong women), until she meet state Senator Mee Moua. Inspired by her example, she just entered college and now plans a career in law.
December 22, 2009 at 2:00 pm
I found a four-year-old piece from USAToday that used Minnesota as an example and talked about the significant decline in male college students and that females had overtaken them by a rather substantial amount.
“A cause for celebration ‚Äî or for concern?” the story says.
Anyone worried about the dudes?
I haven’t been able to find anything current that involves wading through piles of statistics. But I think it is interesting that the only mainstream media report on this decline in males attending college is four years old. Doesn’t look like there’s a lot of followup since then.
I’ll pitch this story to Jason, no charge.
December 22, 2009 at 2:02 pm
So, contrary to the three implications of racism in schools that KC so thoughtfully laid out, it could be a cultural thing that disuades minorites from attending college?
Bob, did a recruiting agent from a college persuade you to finally attend college, or did you realize the value on your own?
December 22, 2009 at 2:03 pm
“I have always wondered as a white, middle class straight male, can I really understand the life experience of my fellow citizens who don‚Äôt fall into my demographic group.”
All this earnestness is helping my lunch settle well.
December 22, 2009 at 2:10 pm
Well, that’s really how I feel when discussing issues of race or gender.
It’s not “white guilt,” I just try to remember that not everyone sees the world the way I do, or has had the same experiences. That’s all.
December 22, 2009 at 2:17 pm
The colleges are doing this not to create a more diverse student body (although they say this is good), but out of economic need. Note that minority populations are increasing in the US, and they are a largely underutilized marketplace for students. If colleges can’t attract more “people of collor,” they will suffer from lack of students sooner or later.
“Bob, did a recruiting agent from a college persuade you to finally attend college, or did you realize the value on your own?”
The later. But I wished they had. I could have used some help.
December 22, 2009 at 2:17 pm
Just love it when clueless people tell those affected how easily race issues, gender issues, disability issues etc. are to overcome.
December 22, 2009 at 2:20 pm
Anyone worried about the dudes?
Not really. Take a look in the CEO’s office. In the Boardroom. In Congress. In the White House. Lots of dudes there. But hey, did you notice the black dude in the White House? So some things are changing, albiet slowly.
December 22, 2009 at 2:37 pm
A mind, even even Danny Noonan’s is a terrible thing to waste, Bob.
December 22, 2009 at 2:47 pm
@kc – I never said students of color are not qualified to go to collage. My point is I don’t care what color they are. I care that qualified people are promoted based on their ability not based on race. But you can live in your own preordained fantasy that all white males are somehow out to get minorities. My guess is that some white trash kid whose parents have an IQ of 70 will probably not be attending college either. Is that cultural, racial or just the way it is. You tell me.
December 22, 2009 at 2:48 pm
He’s right, you know. The world does need dirch diggers, too.
December 22, 2009 at 2:48 pm
With my spelling, I better start digging that ditch now…
December 22, 2009 at 2:51 pm
My guess is that some white trash kid whose parents have an IQ of 70 will probably not be attending college either.
How do you explain George W. Bush then?
But seriously, swandog, your pure meritocracy is just as much a fantasy as the world you think kc believes in.
December 22, 2009 at 2:52 pm
I’d agree with swandog in an ideal world where every got a fair shot from the start. Unfortunately, it’s an incredibly unideal world, and giving those who had a statistically tougher time of it an extra push at the end is a unideal way of partially coping. I’d rather solve the root problems, but failing that at least this band-aid prevents college students from being 100% white.
December 22, 2009 at 2:56 pm
Just love it when clueless people tell those affected how easily race issues, gender issues, disability issues etc. are to overcome
Life is not fair. No one should be discriminated against ever. We should not allow that to happen. However, short of that life is a bitch. No one owes anyone anything. You do need to be responsible for your own welfare and yes sometimes it is hard, unfair and unkind. That is not going to change.
December 22, 2009 at 2:59 pm
Some people just aren’t ready for college after high school graduation. They could perhaps make better use of their time by enrolling in the Peace Corps, VISTA or AmeriCorps. There are some good skills (people, vocational, otherwise) that would serve them in good stead later on in school … and in life.
Even when a person is academically-inclined, public service at that level can be beneficial. How about someone who wants to proceed on to medical school after graduating from the U? If the right grades can’t get you in right away, and rather than settle for something less in the way of a medical school education, a service volunteer route can provide a motivated person with exposure to other areas of medicine and public health care — such as pediatric medicine, as a friend of mine discovered — that might not otherwise have been considered.
But MOTIVATION is the key to any learning experience. If you aren’t motivated to learn, no amount of rote learning, testing, interning, lecturing, labs and all that will give a person an education that is both valued and constructive.
December 22, 2009 at 3:01 pm
i.e. swandog wants the benefits of society and civilization without any of their responsibilities.
December 22, 2009 at 3:03 pm
Swandog says to me: But you can live in your own preordained fantasy that all white males are somehow out to get minorities.
I say: I don’t believe that at all. My husband is a white male not out to get minorities. Same with @justplainbob, @mnblrmkr, and @noodleman. I was only calling you out as racist and that was without knowing your race or gender.
December 22, 2009 at 3:16 pm
“You do need to be responsible for your own welfare and yes sometimes it is hard, unfair and unkind. That is not going to change.”
So a 5, 12, 17 year old should be reposible for making sure they are going to good schools and getting a good education? How would they even know they aren’t getting a good education and when they realize they are, what the hell should they do about it?
You can sugar coat racism any way you want, but when talking about why minorities are underrepresented you say it is because they are’t “prepared” aka smart and that is is their duty to make sure they are, that’s racism. That’s saying black/latino/asian kids aren’t as smart as white kids and it is their own fault.
December 22, 2009 at 3:19 pm
Let me get this straight, in KC’s world if one does not believe in giving one group special treatment over another group that makes them a racists. No one owes anyone a thing in life. That is what people do not want to accept. I am inclined to provide better education to kids to narrow the gap but to gerrymander they admittance system for colleges is not a solution. Many of these problems are the result of poor parenting. If you can’t afford kids or have the time to raise a child just remember the village is not that interested in doing it for you.
December 22, 2009 at 3:23 pm
“My husband is a white male not out to get minorities. Same with @justplainbob, @mnblrmkr, and @noodleman.”
Are you not so sure about The Rat?
And “Nood has been known to come down on us WASPY guys like a ton of bricks.
December 22, 2009 at 3:27 pm
…just remember the village is not that interested in doing it for you.
There ARE “villages” interested in doing that.
I’d also add that any “village” that doesn’t do that to some extent is one that won’t survive very long.
December 22, 2009 at 3:29 pm
Heh. I’ll vouch for The Rat. Even though he might point out that smokers and bar owners are in the minority, too.
December 22, 2009 at 3:32 pm
I’ve never met The Rat. I’ve met the other 3.
December 22, 2009 at 3:39 pm
I want to give people equal treatment. That means equal educational opportunities. Since society has failed to do that on the elementary and secondary level, it needs to done at a college level. If a student at the top of their class in high school is having problems in college, it is the college’s responsibility to do everything they can to make sure that student has the support in place to succeed. They may end up giving more support to students of color or with disabilities, but that’s our responsibility as a society.
And I love that in swandog’s world, children should always be held responsible for the sins for their parents. It is such a democratic view.
December 22, 2009 at 3:42 pm
Well the opposite is also true. Children get to take advantage of their parents wealth to secure better jobs, better schools, better treatment by the police. Longer life span and better health care.
It’s all a lottery and very very few people ever rise above the station of their parents.
December 22, 2009 at 3:49 pm
LGBT students are not “students of color,” unless, of course, they are LGBT students of color. Obviously there are various forms of diversity on a campus, but this particular article is focusing on the race and ethnicity angle. I also don’t have a problem with the Latina student with a kid picture. What’s wrong with that? She has a kid, she’s going to college. Women of all “hues” have kids and go to college, and yeah, parents add diversity of to the campus, too.
My favorite quote from the article is “these kids from Eden Prairie, they’re used to a diverse population in their school.” No offense, Eden Prairie residents, but Eden Prairie is a funny poster child for diversity. It’s 85% white and only has 9% of its students getting free or reduced lunches (says Public School Review, anyway), so it’s not diverse in terms of race or economics.
December 22, 2009 at 3:57 pm
“I‚Äôve never met The Rat. I‚Äôve met the other 3.”
I have had the pleasure of The Rat’s company, right about this time a couple years ago. Had a nice chat. We should lift a mug together again soon, Rat. Maybe at (no insult intended) Whitey’s?
December 22, 2009 at 4:34 pm
And “Nood has been known to come down on us WASPY guys like a ton of bricks.
Oh, so you think you’re special?!
😉
December 22, 2009 at 5:12 pm
“…why minorities are underrepresented you say it is because they are‚Äôt ‚Äúprepared‚Äù aka smart”
nobody is saying not prepared is the same as dumb. it simply means not prepared. i’m not prepared to drive a forklift, but that doesn’t mean i’m dumb. it’s unsetteling kc! tosses around the racist accusation.
college is too late to prepare students for…college. it’s intended to be a culmination of 12 years of academic preparation and achievement, not just something to do after high school.
December 22, 2009 at 5:14 pm
tosses around the racist accusation so freely, that is.
December 22, 2009 at 5:33 pm
I was listening to a Talk of the Nation episode that was kind of talking about this very thing, only it was more about how college enrollments are way up, but students aren’t graduating in line with those enrollment numbers. It’s important to note that some people just aren’t cut out for college (irregardless of race) and many kids are entering college to the detriment of their careers and credit because they’ve be told that college gets you ahead faster. Maybe, maybe not, but I know tradesmen that make triple my income and I’ve been in the workforce for 9 years. Rather, I’d like to see better career counseling in high school so that kids are aware that there are many different trade schools, certificate programs, and community colleges that can train people for success in a career, rather than sending them out in this economy with a B.S. in communications or business or english that probably won’t earn them more than $30K in a year, with which they’ll have to use to pay back thousands in loans for the next 30 years.
December 22, 2009 at 5:36 pm
“No change is detectable? Except many more GLBT folk may be ‚Äúout of the closet‚Äù than in years past.
That, and Obama is turning America‚Äôs kids gay.”
Being out of the closet is overrated. Secrecy is sexy.
And once Obama is done with America’s children, it’s the straight kids who have to worry. Snap.
December 22, 2009 at 5:49 pm
I’m actually think it’s kind of funny that Gustavus is finally talking about the GLBT enrollment. Private liberal arts colleges, including Gustavus, have always had a pretty good sized GLBT community. It was a running joke amongst single gals at Augustana that the ELCA schools sucked for meeting hetero single men.
December 22, 2009 at 7:02 pm
Ha, ha, Alie! That must be why I, who was attending the American Baptist school down the street, had the fortune of hanging out with a crew of lovely Augie ladies on a regular basis…
December 22, 2009 at 7:10 pm
Also, when I went there, the girl to guy ratio was about 4 to 1.
December 22, 2009 at 7:11 pm
“Being out of the closet is overrated. Secrecy is sexy.”
WTF are you talking about? No for the most part its lonely and depressing. Why don’t you STFU before I slap that married mans dick out of your mouth.
December 22, 2009 at 11:31 pm
1. Swandog, please shut up. It’s a wider systemic problem. There are plenty of people who didn’t get the support necessary before getting to colleges and didn’t have to advantages that other students have. Including plenty of poor white kids.
2. My mom went to the U of M in the 60s and I’m pretty sure she hated it so very much because there were, like, 5 black people there. So, this is exciting news to her, I’m sure. Actually, it’s not.
3. But let’s get back to the affirmative action “issue”, it’s a fact that there are plenty of qualified people of color who repeatedly get fucked over in corporate America, and this happens far more than the mythological white males losing out on career options because of affirmative action. But additionally, that’s adorable that swandog believes meritocracies exist in America. [insert hair tussle]
December 23, 2009 at 12:38 am
I read a book recently about affirmative action that suggested that if white people really want to get mad at any perceived unfairness in the system then they should be angry about the rich white kids from privileged backgrounds. Some rich white kids are obviously extremely qualified for their college spot/job/whatever, but factor in legacies, all the benefits of things like tutoring and personal coaches, and the rest of it, and poor white kids without connections are getting screwed, too, and to focus on race alone makes it easy to hide those issues by distracting things and unfairly making non-white students the scapegoat.
December 23, 2009 at 2:41 am
I’ve read both the most recent books about that. It’s true.
December 23, 2009 at 9:38 am
@uptown urbanist – I could not agree with you more. The the the top 3% run the show and get continued special treatment above and beyond any minority. However, two wrongs to not make it right. I have a hard time promoting one group over another based on race. That said I do to some extent support improving the educational outcomes of minority children. However, it IS the parents responsibility to get them to school and monitor their behavior. If the parents do not support the educational system and process early on, then opening spots on college campuses for minority kids that are not prepared is pure window dressing. Eventually they have to pass a test or two and compete academically.
December 23, 2009 at 9:39 am
“Why don‚Äôt you STFU before I slap that married mans dick out of your mouth.”
lol, nice comment moderation, cristina.
And you flagged something I wrote that was G-rated and much less aggressive.
December 23, 2009 at 9:45 am
And probably a lot less funny.
December 23, 2009 at 9:50 am
“Just love it when clueless people tell those affected how easily race issues, gender issues, disability issues etc. are to overcome.”
^^Where did someone imply this?
December 23, 2009 at 9:56 am
Rat’s snide dismissal of bob’s wondering if a white make can really understand the experiences/challenges that minorities face.
OR, see just about any of swandog’s comments
December 23, 2009 at 9:56 am
well, maybe not swandog. Swandog just wants us to fuck off and die already.
December 23, 2009 at 10:01 am
…they had better do it now, and decrease the surplus population, as Ebenezer suggested.
See? There are Christmas themes in every thread! Merry Christmas!