The daily digest of Twin Cities culture | Secrets of the City

A fun technical fact: When we migrated the data from Rex's original MNSpeak MS Access database into Drupal (our new CMS), we had 188,356 comments in 5,944 posts.

SHOCKING!

(RIP MNspeak)

This makes sense though. I always lamented the loss of curated events on MNspeak, so it will be nice to have access to that stuff in one place.

It looks like the Recent Comments column is floating on the right side of the screen over some other stuff (MacOS 10.5.5/Firefox 2.0.0.18).

Selfish THing: since I'm bringing MNstories back (really), it's one less MN_thing to get confused.

Still, this feels different doesn't it? Will take some getting used to.

Does the search function even work? The results don't seem to be making any sense.
Ok, I'll shut up now. I promise not to look at it again until morning. Oh, wait. It is morning.

Yowza. Fix those bylines. They're all wrong.

And I'm impressed that you moved all the posts and comments and they still redirect from the original URLs. Lots of work, I imagine. (you don't have to preview- you can just click "Save" on the comment)

The "Older" link at the top of this page doesn't seem to work.

OK, now I'm logged in!

How do you submit a story? I don't have anything today, but need to be prepared.

May I ask which City has the Secrets, or is that a secret?

Well! This will take some getting used to. To. To. to. to. to.

I fear change.

as a bit of feedback, it would be nice to have Drupal's Marksmarty input module as an option.

While were talking modules...any chance for an openid login module?

I see I have been commenting on this site for 13 hours, 14 minutes.

Odd, it seems longer..

From the feedback file: I hope there's a plan to provide more information on the User Info page. I liked discovering blogs of my favorite MNSpeak commenters, and right now, there's nothing on the user info page.

Hmmm, I kind of don't like it, like CINF I don't like change, but I guess I can get used to it,.

Weak.

@Kurtis

I swear, they'd better watch their back. Joe The Plumber has nothing to do but design websites and secure our dream, to destroy WISpeak.

Someone needs to organize a Last Ever MNSpeak Gathering.

Grumpy's on Washington on Friday?

I also prefer new comments on top rather than bottom. Who would have thought those bastards at WISpeak could be so clever???

I can't make Friday.

@champs: Just because they moved the password doesn't mean it was stored in plain text. A hashed version can still be moved just fine. Even if it was clear text, I hope you're not using the same PW you use for everything else.

Like Mr. DeRusha, I, too, am pleasently surprised to see that they managed to keep the old URLs working. That's no easy feat, but important for search engine rankings. I was prepared for this upgrade to suck, but so far it's not too shabby. Kudos.

It would be kind of nice if we could get back the rotating headers that MNSpeak had, tho. They were kind of cheesy, but I appreciated seeing the grain belt sign or the garbage burners there once in a while.

Ditto on the bold headlines.

The eye is accustomed to going TO the bold. Since it is not a real headline but just the first few words of the comment, it makes sense for us to skip the headline.

But the headline is bold! Now we must train our eyes AWAY FROM the bold?!

Otherwise, I'm sure I will get used to the change.

The new format isn't bad, but it's kind of like when you try and wean a kid off his blankie or pacifier...I'm down for Grumpy's though.

My name is cut off, it looks like I'm Kevin from how the Associated Press abbreviates Minnesota.

Perhaps it's just my lame-o work browser, but everything is center aligned for me. It's annoying as hell.

But seriously, I'm also curious as to why there was a change instead of just prettifying MNSpeak and leaving be as a standalone site.

Why the change?

gonna take a stab at this one.

Take the pageviews from MNspeak bring them under the umbrella of the Rake> charge more for display ads on the Rake. I honestly can't believe that its taken this long.

also +1 on the fact that usernames link to a profile and not the users website.

We know about the messed up authors on old content. We'll fix that.Gotta do another data import.

Sorry about the messed up CSS. If you see something, please take a screenshot and email it to wmaster.

User profiles: Sorry they're blank right now. Working on that.  You'll be able to choose which information shows up and we might even do a contact form so other people can message you without knowing your email (optional of course).

So I tried to enter an anonymous post and it still hasn't posted. Will these all be approved prepost? Might as well get rid of the option then. If the post comes in so far out of the stream of the conversation it will be odd.

Wait, so that contact form idea isn't official? Oh, I thought it was. Please do it.

also not a fan of comment paging.

I rather liked scrolling through the superlong openthread comments.

maybe I am the only one, but I for one don't need another click when trying to see what someone said earlier that was referenced in a later comment.

also not a fan of comment paging. I rather liked scrolling through the superlong openthread comments. maybe I am the only one, but I for one don't need another click when trying to see what someone said earlier that was referenced in a later comment.

I concur.

I'm also a little curious if this site resesign incorporated ideas of things that people who used MNSpeak might have suggested in the past. Basically, was there any informal market research?

Alright I've taken in enough now to make a ruling:

Weak

The old MNspeak was essentially a locally focused unfiltered user generated content site steered and cultivated by mr. sparber. It was relatively loose...not 4chan loose but still pretty slutty.

This feels fairly neutered to me.

I'm not going anywhere Jane. I'll give it a few weeks to work out the kinks. I'm sure the interface will improve greatly it's only day one.

I wonder who the Secret Sadmin is? I've got ten bucks says it's Sailor Martin.

Should references to the old site now be "MnSpake"?

Also, will there be a more prominent "submit a post" link? Will there be a history of submitted posts in one's profile? I liked being able to look back and see what I'd submitted and what others had.

Is it to late to to back?

Didn't even bother to log in.

Goodbye, MNspeak.

Basically flushed a good site down the toilet.

Not only is this ugly, but the fact that it's now associated with a local rag is just annoying beyond anything I can put into words.

oh yeah, did I mention this site is UGLY?

Rakists?

Bob from Lung Ass?!?

Seeing what happened to "Kevin from Minnespolis," I think I'll remain Just Plain Bob.

"Jane, we could always go the route the press went with Prince..."

I want my own glyph!

aliecat can we use a symbol of some sort to?

We'll put more "submit a post" buttons on the pages.

profiles will contain old posts and comments of that user.

(SecretsAdmin was me, btw, logged in as the wrong user.)

Vithar, yes, maybe the Rake's design team can get on that...

Agree with Ang, all the comments being centered is annoying, makes it hard to read.

I need a button to do my linking, I don't remember how to link using html.

Are we going to get more content today? It would be nice to see what kind of content will be on here (if it is different) and how the commenting on it goes. That's what really matters.

Geez, some of you guys are way too picky.

Also, didn't know that Barack Obama's "Change" was a blanket statement! I thought he was just kidding and it'd be internet as usual!

Me and my stupid uninformed voting.

I don't like the reverse-chronological order listing for the comments, but I can see that it can be handy if you had been following a thread closely. But if you haven't been paying attention to the thread, then it's like flipping through a book from end to beginning.

What do you guys think about having a stripped down version of the site that's just the MNSpeak/talk section? I don't think that would be that hard to do.

You could call it, I don't know, MNSpeak.

Also, didn't know that Barack Obama's "Change" was a blanket statement! I thought he was just kidding

No, he wasn't.

Also, I highly recommend the Fark Tags extension for firefox. I use it to insert images and links and format stuff for all sorts of posts on all different websites. Including this one. It saves me from having to: a. figure out code b. switch to rich text.

Another minor thing... When you click on the tag on the front page, it takes you to the list of comments, but not to the comment itself. Thus, you may have to click to the "last" page to continue with the conversation.

The new look and functionality don't bother me. It's just kind of disappointing that MNspeak isn't a separate entity any longer. It kind of felt like you belonged to a club that not everyone knew about. Sort of like the Masons.

Now it seems like the Masons have merged with the Rotarians and I'm not sure the meetings are going to be as fun.

Matt, I think it's OK once you get some of the kinks out. It's just got that new car smell that we'll get used too...

Agree with Douglas - clicking on a "Recent Comment" should take you to the page where that comment resides.

I do like "Secret Speak" as a name for the Talk section. And thanks Matt for filling in some of the details on the future growth.

I noticed that the headlines are permalinks, and that's kinda cool. You could link back to someone's specific comment to refer to it in a thread. Or in a post on a personal blog.

I hope you wait a couple days or weeks before you consider relaunching a separate, stripped-down talk site. Just like with newspaper redesigns, people hate change. There's advantages to be integrated with the blogs you have here. I think.

I've been to rotary meetings. They sing. I'm not singing.

Matt, I think it's OK once you get some of the kinks out. It's just got that new car smell that we'll get used too...

You get used to the new car smell because you got a new car that's, presumably, better than ye old one.  I'm not so sure yet that secretsofthecity.com/talk is a better car.

If they just make the "Headline" the associated comment number then we have an improvement worth something! If you link the comment with the comment on the front page, then voila an actual major improvement.

At the top of the page between the post and the comments if you click on "newer" you get a "you are not authorized to view this page."

The really important question is "How does Marsh feel about this change?"

I think I figured out the recent comments link problem. It's because of the pagination. Working on turning that off.

Another vote against comment pagination. Another vote against center alignment.

I'm in for Grumpy's on Friday.

I'm not a branding expert, so I've only got my gut feel on what this will do to the MNspeak brand and I'm not a huge fan.

But -- and someone please correct me if I'm wrong -- the benefit to this joint was the curated content (yay, Max!) and the regular commentors who usually have smart things to say. If those things are still present, is it really that bad? I'm expecting that, once all the kinks are worked out, this site will actually be a lot easier to use for us commentor types.

Marsh was a little bent out of shape last night, actually; but I'm pretty sure MarshSpeak would bring him around, Bixby. Of course, Meth recipes would be welcome on that one. Might even be my next project. Hell, I have nothing better to do these days.

Frankly, I think it "looks" a hell of a lot better than the old site. MNSpeak was never a very attractive site, just functional.

... working on dropping the comment titles.

How about automatic comment updates without the need to refresh the page?

Don't let Max fool you, 9:30 is when he kicks out the hookers and clowns.

I think that was implied, Alie.

Hi Jerad, we did consult several mnspeakers before launching. Some people just saw the beta site a few days ago, but a lot of people were asked about the concept as far back as a year ago.

Our first priority is making the site work for the most active users, so let us know what sucks and we'll try to fix it.

Marsh was a little bent out of shape last night, actually; but I'm pretty sure MarshSpeak would bring him around,

There would be no living with him, then...

Yeah, I saw Marsh wasn't pleased. I don't know why there wasn't a MarshSpeak long ago.

And I agree with Jerad's last point.

If I could insert pictures I'd find a picture of Grumpy Bear and post that. Partially because it's Monday.

I think I developed a peanut allergy. This would be a disasterous change to my lifestyle.

@Kevin

Oh noes! Now you're going to have to sit in the special section of the cafeteria with all the kids who ruin everything for everyone else!

Also, where'd that peanut allergy info come from?

I don't know. I eat various nut varieties a lot during the day and now everytime I do I fall under a coughing fit and it feels like my whole throat is spasming itself into a knot. This is worse than popping a groin, cutting my forehead shaving and having MNspeak pulled away without warning - combined!. Next thing you know they'll abruptly cancel LOST.

The latest comment clicks right to the comment! Matt- are you fixing this stuff on the fly or do you have help? I'm impressed.

you didn't get a beta link, bixby? Sorry, I could have sworn you were on the email list. My apologies.

Well I just don't know how I feel. Shocked, dismayed, curious, shocked... mostly just really shocked.

Matt, great work getting this done. Now decisions about the feedback. Of course I'm biased about the design - love it.

MNSpeak meet Rake; Rake meet MNSpeak. You now have more people reading, seeing your opinion. Have (more) fun.

I've met The Rake before, it's an asshole.

Just kidding.

Also, I think the "save" button should be retitled "post" or something like that. I wasn't sure if it was going to post my comment when I clicked it or just save it for later or something.

Comment titles gone.

Good: comment titles gone, can scroll down a whole page of comments now. thanks! I will continue to monitor lurker usability.

Matt isn't drupal the sh*t.
now just head over to
admin>user management> user settings and click enable on the "picture support" radio button.

Viola we'd have gawker like avatars

http://www.fresh.mn/2008/11/mnspeak-no-more-the-rake-forums-do-exist/

i fixed the link in my comment.

I suppose I could have done that myself, but it felt dirty.

Thanks, Max.

What happened to the recent comment section on the front page? I'm afraid to ask, because it's probably right in front of me. But I can't find it!

Ingrid, we working on getting a dedicated "recent comments" page like MNSpeak had.

I, for one, welcome our new WISpeak overlords.

I'm sure I'll get used to the new set-up eventually, but I sure will miss the name "MNSpeak."

I have to admit, some of the reactions are rather amusing. Tainted? Good grief. It looks different and it has a different name. It's still the same concept, the same site, the same commenters. Well, the ones that haven't jumped ship because they feel blindsided.

Calm down, everyone. It's going to be okay.

<<

Sorry if this request has already been made or if the functionality is already here and I'm missing it, but can we have a "link" button again that allows us to add URLs?  I don't know how do it without the button.  :(

sorry the comment form sucks. Michael's eating breakfast, so no changes for a few minutes. getting basic link/bold/ital buttons back would be great.

< strong> without the space is bold

just write < strong> your bold text here

and remove the spaces between the carats

sorry you always have to end tags in html too

so make sure you put

< / strong>

without the spaces after your finished

Stop patronizing everybody that thinks this sucks, ang. (Read that last word like "meng.") I will give these losers the leader they need: I believe in you! I think it sucks too! Goddamn it's bright in here, meng!

Marsh comes out swinging. Shit's about to go CRAZY in here.

Bring it, Marsh.

effen strib...I shoulda known.

The Steve Marsh impersonation is a 10 concept, but the execution is hovering around a 6 or 7.

If there's one thing MNSpeak needs it's a contrary opinion, regardless of the topic. I am here to fill that void!

@DouglasG: That's what she said

Left alignment (in IE 6) ftw! Thanks!

"Secret Speak."

That's got a nice ring to it. And it sounds sort of dirty.

Shut up, kurtis.

Okay, refer to my twitter for the specific reasons why this sucks, but I'd like to point out some other--to belabor ang's asshole-ish tone--points of amusement. This just shows so much contempt for the idea of what was a community. I know that's a corny word, but by just trashing the mnspeak name and expecting us to come someplace that looks like the rake and quacks like the rake...well, I feel like a stat. And not in the kinky, "wow, this what girls must feel like all the time!" way. Well, maybe a little.

I have the distinction of being the first SOC Puppet to have his post taken down on this site.

Some may say that was the first tangible sign of real improvement in this forum.

I don't know, I guess I never really felt quite as passionate about MNSpeak as Marsh.

to whomever posted under "Stevemarsh" as if he were a concerned community member...LULZ.

1) Whoa, big changes.

2) I didn't see anyone else mention this, but FYI if you skip the front page of the site and go directly to the Today's Talk page it looks a bit like the old site.

3) I think I could hit Grumpy's on Friday.

4) For serious, mnspeakers (SOCers, ad nauseam) need to learn some HTML. It's not too hard to insert a link....

I haven't been this enthused by speedy development since the Olsen Twins were 17.

Whatever, I'm totally on Team Marsh regardless of the topic. Should I have not voted for him and instead voted for Al Franken?

re: Marsh's real concerns on Twitter. He does he real concerns. If that makes him a tool for having them and expressing them, then I must be a huge fucking tool.

Although it wasn't technically neutral, I liked the *feeling* that MNSpeak was neutral when talking about various news outlets. It's kinda weird with The Rake hovering over it.

Also, to put it in Alie speak, it feels kinda like if you took Gawker and then allowed the commenters to submit short posts alongside the Gawker staff. Not saying the Rake is Gawker, I'm just listing a site with an active comments section. Would people who found a lot of stuff and linked to it be considered Gawker staff even though they're generating page views with the shit they find? Granted, outside content posts are just links and cut and paste stuff, you're still finding stuff. I was obviously fine with this under the old system but something about it now is kind of weird.

Thoughts?

Wait. Who called him a tool?

Nobody called Marsh a tool. People called him an imposter.

And nobody has ever made fun of Marsh for having an opinion. Only for the brusk, confrontational manner he chooses to use to express it. And because it's fun to make fun of him, just like it is fun to discuss G Rote's hair helmet.

And because it's fun to make fun of him, just like it is fun to discuss G Rote's hair

And whether or not I'm a really a dude.

Wait, Ang is a chick???

Steve was posting as "Steve Marsh (not verified)" so I was both noting that it might be an imposter and enjoying the fact that it would bug Steve if it was really him. He could just login as smarsh with his mnspeak password if he wanted to. Like Grote, either way I laugh at the idea of Steve caring about the "community" of mnspeak when he was usually irascible and contemptuous. Maybe it's just an online persona, but it's still hard to come down on the changes with the line that the new place isn't warm and fuzzy enough.

Is there a way to RSS the comments so I can follow the blathering on google reader?

I conditioned this morning, and I'm running my fingers through my thick luxurious salt-and-pepper shaded hair with one hand while I type this with the other. Suck it, hair haters!

marsh's reaction, given his clearly stated contempt for what the MNSpeak had become under Max's editorship just caught me off guard.

although I'd still rather have a beer wtih Marsh than with Kurtis.

Ouch.

@justinph: I did change to site-specific password for MNspeak after finding out how it was put together.

Your language doesn't really preclude plaintext storage, but I suppose there's the chance that it used an unsalted MD5/secret-key encoding, i.e. "velvet rope" security.

You won;t really find that one online, Melissa.

I'll have a drink with any of all y'alls, privided you're buying

Someone buy max a vodka martini.

I don't think that was a black wool sweater. did you see him from behind?

I am curious about the moderating standards now. Are we in danger of becoming Strib / Pipress crazy town or will there still be some limits that will be enforced?

I will still enforce limits. Lightly, as I have always done, but there will be some moderation and pruning when theings get too crazy-go-nuts.

I just want to say that I like Marsh in person. He's been to my house recently. We had to vacuum after, but other than that, it was a nice visit.

And don't forget about Ms. Parber. She's hot too.

Ugh. I need to refresh so I'm not making jokes 20 minutes late. Refresh the page. Well, I should refresh my jokes too.

Ok, we've got a nice long list of bug fixes and interface tweaks.

What about NEW features? Whatcha want?

No offense to aliecat, but I believe I coined the term SecretSpeak at 9:06 a.m.

All glory goes to me.

If I am mistaken, and alie did coin it, my bad; alie I'll buy you a beer!

will we still be able to go back and see our posting history?

Not local?

A real calendar-- maybe where people could submit their own events. Pimp their friends and their own projects --along with the usual concerts and shows.

That's an excellent suggestion, Jason.

I am with Tara and want a way to hyperlink a word. A way for dummies to hyperlink, that is.

Also, whenever we can start posting photos, I predict I will ask for help doing that. I'm looking at you DouglasG.

Jane's right, she coined it, I just shamelessly took credit for it. Hey, I am studying for my MBA, you know...

No! Anonymous! Can you hear me? Come back! I can't live without you!

Perhaps we could call it "Hot Topics." Or "Hot Pockets."

I love shopping at Hot Topic and eating Hot Pockets, so either works for me.

I second (or third, or fourth) Jason's social calendar idea. Smart.

I don't understand all the white hate. I like the clean, simplified layout.

IM me, Alie.

Matt, I liked that you had added a strikethrough option along with bold, italics and underline.

Previously, only smarty pants html-knowers could do strikethrough.

I think we should remove underline. It's only fuction is to confuse people into thinking there is a link.

@matt your dad comes up with way better ideas than my dad. His latest gut buster was to wear a Hawaiian shirt and call himself Jimmy Bahamas. Awesome.

Are you kidding? Underline adds emphasis. Much like all caps. Put 'em together and it might just blow your mind.

That dude in the logo doesn't have a hat. But his shadow has a hat. Is that supposed to be the "secret"? Or is it a grey hat man who is about to pounce on him?

Speaking as someone who used to be Owen, the mascot -- sometimes he wears the hat, sometime he doesn't.

That dude in the logo is Owen. In his new version, he is a lot like old Owen, albiet a little more gay.

Oh, that wasn't a Secret in the City, was it, Owen? Oh damn! Sorry, dude...

Just kidding, Mrs. Owen!

Damn - it's all downhill now. Hard to imagine what the site will be like without Anonymous (not verified) and his/her crazy antics.

Damn...I hope it wasn't 'just sayin', or worse, 'larrycrg'.

you could tone down the blue username links to a bluish gray...that would be a little nicer on the eyes

you could tone down the blue username links to a bluish gray...that would be a little nicer on the eyes

Second that.  Good idea.