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MNSpeak: Talk
MN Culture
Help! I'm here six years and still struggling. I will send up a friendly mojo-rising for anyone who can explain: 1. why MNans don't say "you're welcome" when thanked, but instead, utter a lazy "MM-HM"; 2. why when MNans are angry at someone, they tell everyone but that person? Is character assassination an art form here? 3. Why Edina housewives talk so loudly? (Before you bristle, give this one a chance. they truly scream when they speak.); 4. why showing some flair (translation--driving a nice car that I earned, dangit) is considered "showing off?" I've heard of dumbing down, but pooring down? Is this a farming thing? 5. Why, when i'm in Cub Foods at 1 am, hunting and gathering in peace, the only two other people in there have to stand so close behind me, one false move and they're guilty of a dry hump? what is the thing here with personal space? Help. I'm not understanding this whole scene....don't you realize you'll get your darn-tootin' turn at the check out if you back it up a bit? Any advice or insight would be welcomed.
271 Reader Comments
1. maybe true
2. yes that is true
3. I tend to disagree
4. I think that used to be the case, with folks never driving anything more ostentatious than a nice Buick or Olds. But I think that has changed along with the tastes of the rest of the country, with the chromier the rims the better, etc.
5. I think this observation is innacurrate. Minnesotans are very protective of their personal space, they are not warm.
Why? They'res a huge passive aggressive streak that runs through the native Swedes / Norwegians / Germans here.
Regarding #1: It means the same thing, ya know. As well, Minnesotans write it "Minnesotans," not the lazy "MNans."
Regarding #2: Passive Aggressive behavior goes hand and hand with Minnesota Nice. Many of us need to work on that issue.
Regarding #3: Granted I've only met a few Edina housewives but I've generally found them to be more soft spoken than you describe.
Regarding #4: Maybe there are better things you could have done with what you've earned. ;-)
Regarding #5: You think that's stereotypical Minnesota behavior? I think the opposite is true.
Where are you from, anyway? ;-)
here's some insight: half your observations are inaccurate and in regards to #2: this post sucks and very mad at it.
You lost me at "MNans."
With #5 its not that Minnesotans like getting in others space. Its that they love standing in lines. I have no idea why this is. Minnesotans think nothing of going to the fair and standing in line for 35 minutes for cheese curds.
I don't say MM-HM, I say KTHANXBAI.
And we say "bag" funny, too, don'tcha know. I hear they say it correctly in Dubuque, though...
Edina housewives talk loudly for the same reasons that you drive a fancy car. #1 & #5 are wrong and/or not limited to just Minnesota. and for #2, I think . . . oh nevermind . . . hey, someone email me so we can talk about this krad chick.
truthfully, this happens everywhere. i lived in both NY and Boston and the same things happen there. only replace "Edina" with "Brookline"
If you're at Cub Foods at 1 a.m., you're not with other Minnesotans. Real Minnesotans are asleep by 10:15 p.m.
The term MNans makes as much sense at SotanLife to me.
I think 'pouring down' exists among the liberal elite, of which I'm one. Why buy new when you can keep the old wheels patched together with a few Wellstone bumper stickers?
I don't say MM-HM, I say KTHANXBAI.
See, you can tell Max has spent considerable time away from here, because no native could be that witty.
Here are the observations of a native Iowan - Minnesota nice doesn't apply if you're not in the room, personal space is sacred, cabins are valhalla (unless you're Pat Reusse). Minnesotans (we spell it out) also need constant reminders of their own superiority. Remember these things and you will do fine here. Forget them at your own risk.
This white peach tea tastes like making out with a smoker.
I don't know about their talking volume, and I don't mean to generalize... but Edina housewives are, IMHO, the loudest screamers.
This is why we still allow anonymous posters.
My friends call me The Motherfucker.
Talkin' just ruins the mood, doesn't it MILF LOVER.
Krad, where are you originally from? That would help explain a lot.
Until I know that, I'm going to have to continue talking shit about you and your fancy car to various MNSpeakers via email.
Also, no need to thank me for any advice I give you. I won't respond.
See you at 1am in line,
Bixby
Krad, where are you originally from? That would help explain a lot.
Until I know that, I'm going to have to continue talking shit about you and your fancy car to various MNSpeakers via email.
Also, no need to thank me for any advice I give you. I won't respond.
See you at 1am in line,
Bixby
We're all waiting for the "Oh, Krad's from [ ]?? THAT EXPLAINS IT!"
I'm glad it's someone else taking the heat this time!
(But #2 is so terribly true)
truthfully, this happens everywhere. i lived in both NY and Boston and the same things happen there. only replace "Edina" with "Brookline"
True that.
I haven't experienced 1, 3, 4, or 5, but I will agree that #2 is quite true. However, isn't it true everywhere? It certainly was in Kansas City. My best friend lives in Chicago, and her circle of friends does the same thing. I think it's just human nature that most people would rather complain to other people than have the guts to deal with a problem head-on.
I'd like to point out that there is no equivalent of Coolidge Corner in Edina, though. In fact, Brookline is a way better first-ring 'suburb.' (Boston gives it a big hug!)
No Tara, #2 is more in regards to the fact that EVERYONE does it here, not just the catty young people.
i don't know, wayne, you've been told many times on here to fuck off. or maybe it's online, and not directly to your face, so it doesn't count.
same passive agressive shit, different medium. that's why trolls don't sign their posts.
only replace "Edina" with "Brookline"
Third that.
Some of these seem to be more issues with the universal human condition (I think everyone bitches to anyone except the person they're mad at, worldwide). Minnesotans do have a special brand of passive-aggressiveness, but then East Coasters have their hurried rudeness and Southerners their politeness with a background of "I'm better then you, Yankee." I think it's charming.
There you go. The key to Josie's heart is to hurridly give her a mint julip then gossip with her.
K-THNX-BAI - "All sarcastic, all the time"
lol@Kevin.
And how true!
1. We don't expect to be thanked so knock it off.
2. Classic passive agressive behaviour. Welcome to minnesota.
3. I go out of my way to avoid talking to Edina housewives or any housewife from a suburb
4. Because it is showing off - I own an Audi for specifically this reason - i get a nice german automobile and no one (including my farming uncles) considers it showing off. Now if I owned a BWMer or a Mercedes I would never hear the end of it.
5. Who the hell grocery shops at 1am?
Minnesota is a very live and let live state and we don't get into other peoples faces. One of the downsides to this is that we tend to be passive agressive and its difficult to make friends (since everyone is still friends with those they went to 1st grade with). For these two reasons this minnesotan is planning on moving out of this state.
5. Who the hell grocery shops at 1am?
I used to and still would if my local neighbourhood grocery store were open all night like certain other locations (*cough* uptown *cough*). But alas, I have to think ahead to any late-night cravings I might get and do my business by 11. Woe.
For these two reasons this minnesotan is planning on moving out of this state.
You'll be back! Mark my words.
Minnesota is a very live and let live state
lol@that one. Anybody wanna head to the liquor store with me on Sunday and...well maybe tonight after the 10 o'clock news? Ehh, not so much. What does Soucheray call it - the state where nothing is allowed? Well, sort of. Clearly, the best way to gain the ability to do anything is to do it on your bicycle. Provided you wear a helmet, of course.
Josie,
Good thing I suffer from FGS.
LOL after a night of noise. A St. Paul cop just told me there were more fireworks in the neighborhoods than at Taste of Minnesota. but I digress
Krad, I, too, am not from here. I will try to answer your questions from the not from here perspective
1) The major media ran Dear Abby and Ann Landers instead of that syndicated Emily Post column, so there was no proper major media manner guidance for poor Minnesotans
2) Passive-aggressive behavior IS an art form here. I think they even teach community ed classes in it.
(My home state is much more direct)
3) In Edina, no one can hear you scream
4) It's not a Minnesota anti-flair thing. It's a Lutheran thing. I once knew a flashy North Dakotan and he had one heck of a time.
5) The personal space thing drives me nuts, too. Krad, start coughing loudly and make a comment about TB. That gets rid of them in a hurry.
I will avoid the bag versus sack and the hot dish versus casserole and the pop versus soda discussion. but what is it with (mainly older) Minnesotans and the really bad coffee they serve? it's like brown water. . . if any of you have Minnesota parents or grandparents, I'd love an answer
oh, and this whole hang out with your first grade friends thing is weird, too, yoshi. I went to a K-12 school, where there were 300 kids in the entire school. I coordinate school reunions and while we stay in touch, we would find a little weird to all hang out constantly. We just had a school reunion and I was telling a group of people about the Minnesotans I've dated who hang out constantly with childhood buddies . . . and they view this graying, middle-aged woman as the evil interloper, intent of stealing their buddy. Geez, I have arthritis to the point where I'd have to put the buddy in a shopping cart and push him away. . .
I've lived in this state since 1980 and when I lived outstate it was a lot easier to make friends right away. Moved to the Cities in '83 and it really took time to develop a good circle of friends -- most of whom are also not from here.
It's gotten easier to get to know people as more people move in, especially in St. Paul where you get asked which "parish" you go to ad nauseum (I'm a Methodist and we have churches)
I hope the people aren't your own reason for moving.
I think my grandparents started drinking Hill Bros. coffee in their youth and have remained loyal to it while higher-quality coffee has become more available. I think they would think we're off our rockers for paying the exorbitant prices we do, and not even getting a metal can out of the deal.
the only thing that I think is really unique to minnesota in this thread is the fact that people sometimes tend to stay with their old friends and it is hard to break into that as a newcomer.
i will say though -- I grew up here, i still live here. the oldest of my close friends is from 10th grade, and we hardly see one another ever.
All the things people bitch about Minnesotans could easily apply to my suburban Chicago friends too. Everyone hangs out with grade school/middle school friends. They live in the same suburb they grew up in. They're cliquey, insular, blah blah.
It's like the old joke about the weather. "Ah Minnesota Weather. IF you don't like it-- just wait five minutes!"
I've heard "Chicago weather. Don't like it -- just wait five minutes"
"Iowa weather..."
Everything thinks it only pertains to their area.. .when as josie stated... it's more a universal thing. This comment is too long. Sorry.
#5 is way wrong. I need a good six feet from strangers or I start getting jumpy. I go nuts on the east coast because they stand too close.
#4 and #3 taken together confuse me. If you're in Edina, everyone drives nice cars. If you're outstate, then nice cars are showing off. Just get a truck, that's what the rich kids at my high school drove.
Is there a list of good traits, too, or are you firmly in the anti-Minnesota camp?
Jason, maybe it's more a 'midwest' thing than a minnesota thing, but it definitely changes when you get closer to either coast. Not necessarily for the better, but it changes.
"Is this a farming thing?"
Because we're all farmers....?
As for the 'you're welcome thing'... I've heard it said plenty of times, but when it isn't said it's usually because the 'thank you' was casual or superficial in the first place.
Jason - I just read that same saying about weather in Europe.
I've lived in MN for 11 years. I grew up in Chicago and Milwaukee, so I am pretty much a midwesterner. The people here really are very passive-aggressive and rude. Yeah, there are rude people everywhere, but not to the extent here.
Don't even get me started on the whole friends since elementary school thing. Ugh. It makes me angry and I just don't get it. It is very hard to make friends here.
All of this boils down to one thing: a small town mentality. A lot of people who live in Minneapolis moved here from small hick towns in Iowa and the Dakotas. They bring their backwards small town mentality with them. One of them moves here, and the whole town follows.
Ok, so there's like half a dozen other people here saying the same things I get yelled at for saying. I feel a little vindicated.
All I know is the constant complaining about how people here are is probably not very effective in ingratiating oneself to the natives. If midwesterners/Minnesotans are guilty of all the things they're accuse of (and in almost all cases-- they are guilty)... then the transplants are guilty of being somewhat arrogant crabs.
Maybe it's just a MNSpeak thing, but I've never lived anywhere where people are so crabby about the people they live with. It's odd to me.
And wayne is right: my TV colleagues talk about how totally different people are on the coasts.
Amen, Jason.
Like most things, people have to be willing to laugh at their own expense. I snark about Minnesotans a lot, but I snark about being from Iowa, too, even though that's far less shameful.
There's rude everywhere. And the laughable boo-hoo I'm left out discussion of people's effing grade school connections and how they are hard to infiltrate is not only laughably stupid, but truly makes me wonder what's so wrong with it? Apparently, in our modern age it is bad to have long-term relationships.
And, there are way more legacy-elitist-social status places I can think of than good ol' MN. Good Lord, people. Get over this already.
And people wonder why Minnesotans get defensive about transplants being critical when we're called hicks and ascribe a "backwards small town mentality" to everyone who was born in-state.
I'm a firm believer that a negative attitude about the place you live leads to a negative experience. So if you're going to complain about how hard it is to make friends here, you probably won't make any. It happened to me when I lived in Cali; I had such a bug up my butt about Los Angeles I was absolutely miserable and never met anyone new. So, shockingly, I decided to move away from the place I hated, which ceased my endless complaining and bettered my life. Just a thought to the negative Nellies out there.
That's not necessarily true, Wayne. I grew up out East and it really depends on your demographic/geography. In Manhattan, people tend to be transient and not associate socially with people who don't live on the island -- meaning friendships can often not last, given how transient New Yorkers can be.
In Brooklyn, family and friends can be a bit more sacred, so you often have very tight-knit groups -- especially since people don't leave the neighborhood in many cases.
In New England, where I grew up, people tend to stay put, so it's not uncommon to see really long-standing childhood friendships last.
So you see Wayne? Even your beloved Boston ain't THAT different.
Seriously. Dead Horse speaks truth. True friendships that last decades should not be knocked. However, if people are just afraid to meet non-natives, then it's doubtful they'd be any fun to hang out with, anyway.
And for the record, attitudes/people are different all over the U.S. I know I feel more at home out east. But it can be hard to meet new friends anywhere you go. Most of us that have moved here since college are friends with non-natives. The same applies anywhere you go.
Take a shot at moving in to a Brooklyn neighborhood and making friends with the folks who've lived there for the last 20 years. Let me know how that goes for ya.
Who the hell grocery shops at 1am?
Dude, that's the best time to go. They're just restocking everything and no one else is in there.
And the people-watching is spectacular.
I am not trying to be negative, it's just how it is here. And it get's really frustrating when it's hard to make friends or date a guy because you're not from around here. Don't get me wrong, I love Minneapolis, but it really gets old to have people treat you like a leper. Minnesotans need to be more welcoming to outsiders.
I always grocery shop after midnight. That's when all the cute stockboys and girls come out to play. But you'll never see me at a Cub Foods, especially not that one on Lake Street--nas-tay!
I'm with Lunds all the way. According to that City Pages article, what does that say about me again?
Shell, you are completely wrong about that. Why didn't you go to the recent MNspeak gathering? Unless you really are a leper, I'm sure you could have met some friends there. As for dating a guy, maybe Kwatt can help you out.
What would you recommend, Shell? I'm always curious about what's expected of natives, especially by people who tell us we suck.
As a "transplant" (which I was graciously called for the first two years after I moved here), I can answer these questions easily:
1. Minnesotans think it's faster and easier and slightly humble to say, "MM-HM," instead of, "you're welcome." It keeps the idea that everyone here is friendly, which leads to...
2. Passive-aggressive nature. Holy cow are the people here passive-aggressive. My co-workers and my students have a hard time with me being blunt. I flat out tell them I don't sugarcoat and they whine. It's the Norwegian and German natures of the people at war with each other. Luckily I'm mostly German, so I have no problem explaining my opinion or invading Poland.
3. I have found that people who wear iPods all the time or talk on cell phones all the time go deaf faster. The Edina housewives are on the phone all the time or have iPods in while working out, thus they are going deaf. My students are the same way. They think I have fantastic hearing, but it's really that they talk at the same level of a bulldozer.
4. Again, it's the aw shucks factor. I have found that Minnesotans almost want to be like the Precious Moments town in that Simpsons episode where Flanders leaves Springfield. It's not a farming thing, it's a "we're normal people, dontcha know, so why show off what you got. Plus, you make yourself a target then for the whole passive-aggressive thing.
5. Comfort and safety. Minnesotans, and humans in general are hard-wired to work in packs (though here they are called cliques).
Bottom line: I have lived here seven years, and I have enjoyed it for the most part. Here's what you have to understand. People go to New York or Los Angeles. People go BACK to Minnesota. Then again, I'm a transplant, so let the hatin' begin.
I'm always curious about what's expected of natives, especially by people who tell us we suck.
Yes! The dead horse of "Minnesotans are not friendly!" could benefit from some constructive criticism. Also, I'm with Rich: it is hard to make friends anywhere without the protective padding of school and its built-in social life.
Also, shell, it's just as hard for "natives" to date, because I will say (in general) Midwestern men have a talent for taking passiveness to a whole new level. But dating is another thing that is hard everywhere.
People go to New York or Los Angeles. People go BACK to Minnesota.
*raises hand* That's me!
I am feeling like this entry the equivalent of that Kate Perry article in The Trib, where she states all Minnasotan's can't wait till fall so we can all cover up with turtlenecks and are afraid to show our emotions. Lame.
I also "moved here from somewhere else," that somewhere else was smaller, but I moved here after college, knowing a few people.. Making friends with their friends, meeting people at work, making an effort to hang out with them outside of work, talking to people at the gym etc... seems like the normal way to make friends. Met my boyfriend at the Dinkytowner(yeah, I know..) he came up and talked to me, exchanged number and Voila!
Does this not work for other people?
There are many degrees of passive-aggressive, and I don't think any "culture" uses the Project Charlie approach to sitting down and talking about what's bothering them, in a calm and civilized manner. Humanity doesn't role that way.
Passive-aggressive as opposed to what, in-your-face pushy assholedom?
God, dating is a whole other beast. I disagree with many of the comments about Minnesotans, but Josie is right about men here not having any clue what to do with the aggressive tendencies granted to them by an overabundance of testosterone. There are painfully few men in MN that seem to be willing to go talk to a woman they find attractive. And many who are willing are complete and utter scumbags. I am by no means the sexiest beast on the block, but it's amazing how many women in the past have been happy to spend the night talking in bars/restaurants/etc. just because I opened a conversation. And yes, I dated some of them.
Granted, this could be a universal thing, given that Wayne isn't from here. ;-)
yes, that works for other people. people who bitch about not finding friends in minnesota are either unsocial or just jerks. go to any bar in the city. you will make friends.
I've NEVER once ran into the friends-since-gradeschool problem. None of the people I've met in the past five years have friends from gradeschool here. None of my friends from gradeschool are here either.
actually richg, you are pretty damn sexy.
Thank you Ironic and Shell, to begin. Next, I realize i left one item off the original list---Minnesotans are generally intolerant when it comes to self-analysis. Southerners admit their qualities and even laugh them off, New Yorkers wear their quriks like a badge and are even proud of their ways, but ask a question even remotely tongue-in-cheek about MNans (too bad about the abbreviation, live with it. besides, where's that Midwestern economy and sensibility now?) and you folks go insane. It's "Fargo," all over again. Jeezz. Lighten up. As for my car, I'll ignore that "I'll decide how to spend YOUR money" comment and continue to dispose of my hard-earned money where i see fit, not where you see fit.....What is sad is the vibrant mean streak that runs through MNans when you are questioned, on anything. And frankly, what the hell difference does it make where i come from? In the self-centric place that MN is, do you really care? Aren't y'all really just drawing that line between "us" (natives) and "them" (everyone else)? Is it a good thing to hang out with your elementary school friends until you're 60? How broad of an exposure to other opinions/cultures can one get by doing that? Ah..maybe this explains why people here automatically assume a Latina-looking person is "Mexican?" I love Mexicans, but I'm not of Mexican descent. It is interesting. Explanations? Enraged, pent-up MNan backlash? Bring it on.
Parry, not Perry, and other assorted grammatical errors. Note to self, proof read next time.
OK, I'm married now but neither I nor my socially active from-here friends have ever rejected (or not pursued) a date because the girl was from some other state.
Which is not to say "Oh, you're from Orlando?" might not be code for "buy a breath mint."
Oh! I forgot to include a Thank you to "Not From Here." I appreciate it. Nothing malicious meant here, just a cry in the dark from someone experiencing firsthand how hard it is to be a newcomer here. Now, if you only spoke Spanish and English. You should see the looks on people's faces here when they can't quite reconcile a youngish woman, Latina, speaking Spanish but speaking English without an accent..and then driving away in a German car....it confounds them endlessly...very amusing...after all, what kind of box can you put THAt in?
And way to deflect any attempt at self-analysis, KRad!
I'm guilty of having a few friends that I've known since elementary school, but I'm really having a hard time seeing why that is such a horrible, godawful thing. If they were my ONLY friends, that would be weird, but overall lifelong friendships are pretty groovy. My closest and best friends were made in college, but it's nice sometimes to have one or two people still in my life that I played Barbies with.
Krad, if you want to troll for MNSpeak rage, you should do it a bit more subtly. Remember, we're all passive aggressive!
nice try, krad. now this is just getting boring.
*yawn.
Krad: ".....and then driving away in a German car....it confounds them endlessly...very amusing...after all, what kind of box can you put THAt in?"
A Volkswagen?
If you don't like it, leave it? Wow. Is Dick Nixon back? Oooh. Scary.
I moved here 6 years ago and had absolutely no problem finding and making friends with similar interests as my own, friends I still have and appreciate today. When you see the same 1-20 people at gallery openings, performances, saints games, bars, restaurants, etc, how hard is it to strike up a conversation once you're past the "i've seen you before nod." and "hang what's up." fleeting smalltalk?
"I'm David, I've seen you around at XYZ, do you like ABC as well? You do? *blah blah* Wanna come over and share ABC (movies, music, books, drink, food, art, discourse, fluids)?"
I've kept many of my college friends no matter where they have moved, I even have a couple friends from high school that I still talk to. Perhaps the reason you are confused as to how people maintain relationships for extended periods of time isn't because its an anomoly but because you're a crappy friend.
Seriously, perhaps it is time for a little introspection and perhaps a trip the the library to check out how to win friends and influence people or something as you must have slept through your 100 level "Intro to Interpersonal Communications" class if rather than try harder at making friends, you go on the internet and complain like a 12 year old.
And I grew up in Texas. Nowhere are earth are people more passive-agressive than they are there. They'll give you the biggst grin and "How y'all doin" while they twist a knife into your back...sweet as can be.
A Volkswagen? Not on your life. This Colombian went out and bought the best damn car i could afford after workin' like a dog for so many years. And unless you're Hispanic in MN, you will not know what i'm talking about. People try to mean well here on ethnic issues, but they cram their feet in their mouths on this subject more often than not. There's racism, and it runs deep, but in some cases it's based on pure ignorance of non-MN-based cultures.
Good point Josie. Now if the rest of your countryment could take your openminded and benevolent lead....
/rant off
Sorry, 'm just sick of seeing this same conversation on here. I've lived in 5 other states, it's no different here than anywhere else really. In fact, I've found it is far better than most.
New Yorkers wear their quirks like a badge? Say what? If you mean being extremely city-centric and holier-than-thou with annoying accents, then yes, they do.
I suspect people would respond to your post with openmindedness and benevolence if the tone of your posts and comments sounded a little less like your deliberately trying to provoke outrage, KRad.
I agree with this:
I'm a firm believer that a negative attitude about the place you live leads to a negative experience. So if you're going to complain about how hard it is to make friends here, you probably won't make any.
And I also agree with this:
Don't get me wrong, I love Minneapolis, but it really gets old to have people treat you like a leper. Minnesotans need to be more welcoming to outsiders.
SO, if you move here from elsewhere, having a PMA is half the battle.
People here aren't hateful, they're just isolated VERY FAR inland, and likely from a small Midwestern town. Isolation breeds fear of the unknown, and fear of change. A direct-approach, no-BS coastal person is usually a welcome breath of fresh air in most professional and social situations I've been in here in MN. So USE whatchya got! Force the MNans to face you and talk to you; once they realize you have friendly intentions and are cool they'll warm up. Experiment with getting in all up in MNans grills with a hearty, friendly tone - it sure beats sulking and bitching about it.
But MNans, I wish most of you would take a clue from this, as well. Half of the responsibility for this unfortunate stereotype rests on you! People here really ARE extremely passive/aggressive and rude. You don't have a defense. It really is the way things are here, and it's a shame! Actually LISTEN to these out-of-towners and try to actually THINK about why so many people think this, instead of just being offended and defensive, or making jokes about it.
I have had the pleasure of having a few friends move here and having to explain, apologize and come up with answers to all the same questions the original poster (krad) is asking. These friends of mine are seriously considering whether the cheaper MN real estate is really worth putting up with the lameness of MN people. They've tried to be optimistic and positive, but are so often let down, they're now miserable!
Wake up Minnesotans. Drop the corn-fed humble Midwesterner pretensions, join the human race, and stop treating newcomers like crap. Please!
In all seriousness, I can understand how it would be difficult to move to MN as a member of a minority group. But most people do mean well, I believe that, and most people are open-minded and want to learn more about other cultures. But - no one is going to know unless you say something!
And also - in all seriousness - I have a more diverse friend base here then I have had anywhere else. So I don't know what to tell you about that. There's a lot going on here if you look around. I am sorry that you're not loving living here as much as I think a person could love living here, and that last comment of mine was pretty bitchy, so I apologize.
Sorry, 'm just sick of seeing this same conversation on here. I've lived in 5 other states, it's no different here than anywhere else really. In fact, I've found it is far better than most.
So...maybe you should venture to another string of comments....you might feel better responding to another topic....now take a deep breath, tame that darn-tootin' bottled-up anger and move on, just like you're kind of advising the rest of us...
Case in point.
Krad: "A Volkswagen? Not on your life. This Colombian went out and bought the best damn car i could afford after workin' like a dog for so many years."
Ah. No, I was just making a wee joke off your comment "what kind of box can you put THAt in?", as Volkswagens, emphasizing safety over form as they typically do, aren't known for their aerodynamic styling.
Now I've so cruelly laid out my facetious one liner on the anatomist's slab, it might not have been that funny in retrospect.
Buying someone a drink goes a long way. So start buying me drinks Minnesota.
On second thought, I'm taking back my apology for any bitchy commentary, and I do so aggressively without a hint of passivity.
btw - Oliver, I thoroughly enjoy your vocabulary and sentence structure. It brings some class to this joint.
Yay for generalizations that can be applied anywhere!
I'll be your friend.
ah, mspbarber. We go way back. If my original post "provoked outrage" in you, I suggest a retreat in the mountains, opium tea and some calming incense. Funny, you don't see maliciousness in some of the outrightedly mean responses, but you see it in my post....hmmm. If you're angry, you lost the game, mspbarber. That's the part you so consistently miss. It's laughingly easy to get you folks riled up, just question something and you go into orbit. For the record, I was never angry, just honest and stung by all the crap i've had to endure since moving here, racist and otherwise. Silly me for really asking for some insight from those who know. Oh, but i'm glad you're back. Nice to hear from you.
KRad, perhaps you would have been better served to search the archives and see that this topic has already been discussed AD NASEUM in the past and that in reposting complaints about your would-be "friends" you're not serving yourself very well. Not that searchign a website should be your first clue that this is a poorly chosen course.
KRad,
If you're relatively new to reading MnSpeak, then it's understandable that you're not realizing that what you've brought up here is very tired old territory, already covered to death in far too many previous threads.
Every social group has various niches to be filled, and once each is filled, by one individual, it's not welcomed to have and new additional person duplicating that. In your case, the niche has long been filled by the incessant whining of Wayne.
So, if you want to secure a place at the table here, I suggest you bribe Wayne to step aside. But the price is likely to be high, because it sure looks like he's got nowhere else to go.
Or myabe you and Wayne could take turns: Wayne getting Monday/Wednesday/Friday, and you getting Tuesday/Thursday/Weekends!
See, here in Minnsota we're interested in cooperative problem-solving!
not only is Krad the smartest gal in the room, she's the funniest. just ask her. I never in my wildest dreams figured that Maz would be replaced by an angry Columbian woman. kudos to you, KRad.
I think the preferred term is "Latino."
Don't even get me started on the whole friends since elementary school thing. Ugh. It makes me angry and I just don't get it. It is very hard to make friends here.
All of this boils down to one thing: a small town mentality. A lot of people who live in Minneapolis moved here from small hick towns in Iowa and the Dakotas. They bring their backwards small town mentality with them. One of them moves here, and the whole town follows.
Uhhhhmmm,
It may be an attitude like this that's keeping you on the outside.
Just sayin, that's all.
Trying not to be passive aggressive here:
KRad- Now you're just being a bitch.
I second Josie on the Teucer-riffic-ness.
I talk to my BFF from high school every single day and I'm not gonna apologize for it.
Still don't get specifically what Minnesotans are supposed to do differently, besides drop dead or something. This lady's doing a lot of complaining, but there's nothing constructive or useful, it's just insulting.
Hostility begets hostility
besides....you started it KRad.
neener, neener, neener.
(was that Minnesotan?)
I'm not friends with any of my old pre-college friends, and neither are any of my current friends. If you want to make friends, go to any blogger or MNspeak gathering and you will make them. All are welcome and will be loved. :)
OK, yepnope, I'll list some good qualities about the Minnesotans I have as friends.
1) If you can find a group that you share interests with, and work hard at staying in touch, doing what you gave to do, you're set. My native Twin Citian friends tend to be people I work or have worked with, or volunteer with. Having that common interest helps a lot.
2) They ALWAYS return stuff when they borrow it. They pay for stuff when it is damaged or broken. Silly as that sounds, it can be a big deal if you're constantly having to retrieve your garden tools, punch bowls, etc. I have a good friend from ohio who took TWO YEARS to return a coffee urn. No she doesn't get to borrow stuff any more.
3) Do someone a favor and they return it. Always. Twin Citians are diligent about that. My East Coast friends? Not so good.
4) Minnesotans do favors but don't want any credit or even recognition. That's always been a little weird but I'm getting used to it after all of these years. Case in point: a badly sprained ankle had me hobbling several winters ago. My walk would get shoveled -- never knew who did it. I'd limp in with one bag of groceries -- and by the time I got back downstairs the rest of the bags would be by the door. Never knew who did that either. Someone even made a "do not block walk" sign for me and posted it in the snow. That's still a mystery
5)I've NEVER had a problem with teenagers here.
While everyone is jumping in teucer's jock, I would like to go on record that he and grote about about the only things that make me laugh on a regular basis.
Them and Raymond. His wife hate's his mom...isn't that hilarious!
Since when did Max go from playwrite to a barber in Minneapolis/St. Paul?
Can we agree on Irino's for the Irish then?
Yes, and Polos for the Polish.
This is the dumbest thread here in some time, although that should be expected of someone who has the email address radicalwoman.
In response to this comment upthread:
what is it with (mainly older) Minnesotans and the really bad coffee they serve? it's like brown water. . . if any of you have Minnesota parents or grandparents, I'd love an answer
I did ask my parents this once, not in a nice way. I had been off to college and learned about what real coffee tasted like and thought I knew everything in the world.
My mom explained that both she and my dad had grown up during the depression (which I obvioulsy knew) and that money was so tight they had to make everything stretch, including coffee. So that's how they were both introduced to it - drinking it weak - and it's a habit that's stuck with them ever since. She started to get a little teary while she was telling me the story and I felt like an ass.
Grote: It's Colombian, not Columbian. And to another responder -- I'm still a little sickened (speaking of ad nauseum) at the whole "love it or leave it" thang, which underscores a lot of your reponses. Eek. you really don't mean that, do you? I mean, that is really provincial. And Binky--you are right. I was a lot less bitter before living here for six years and getting insulted on a daily basis. I honestly did not start out this way. I thought i was doing well actually. (that would be a joke) Sorry if i sounded bitchy. Survival tactic, i suppose. No offense meant--and while it is indeed an "old and tired" topic to some, it's not old (but it is tired) to those of us still grappling with the culture here. Unfortunately, most of the posts here confirmed my fears---it's almost impossible to raise a differing opinion here without getting reamed. Your loss. A lot of us "diff'rent" folk have something to offer. Like--batting about ideas on a subject without getting nasty or relying on mean-spirited sarcasm. Over and out, this attempt at a lively, spirited debate sadly proved my point. Not worth it.
MNspeak.com's community shouldn't be regarded to be anything like Minnesotans in general.
Bye. Don't let the aggrigator hit you on the way out.
Aw you guys. You're making me blush!
Besides, I like to split my infinitives and leave my participles dangling all the time.
yes, watery coffee is depression coffee. i personally prefer thick and strong economic boom coffee.
no, krad, whoever said that didn't mean it. i don't know where you are hanging out or who you are hanging out with to get insulted on a daily basis, but that's not the way of most minnesotans. in fact, that's not the way of ANY minnesotans i know. i'm sorry you have to deal with that crap.
David, i do believe you have capsulized Minnesota Nasty like no other. Congrats. s4xton, i hope you're right.
nice, nice, nice
happy, happy, happy
thanks just sayin' and anonymous. the Great Depression does sound like a good explanation. But my folks and my late grandparents, who did live through the Depression, never made or make weak coffee. They DID use chicory to extend the coffee bean supply and growing up, I had a friend's mother who still did that.
So maybe it's a regional thing as well.
(and I'll add my thanks to s4xton)
And I'm a Texan! Go figure right?
In all honesty, if you come off in person as you do on here, I would have an incredible reluctance to have an additional conversation with you. Call me a dick or provicial or aw-shucks backwoods country all you want, but a superficial concern for and belief that a car is a badge and a good investment of the money you've worked so hard at earning, that entire groups of people are catagorizable in the manner in which you've laid it out and that it is any different on any coast, I would pay for the round and move on. Perhaps this is just your online persona, this is mine and it is in keeping for the most part with the matter of factness I would exhibit to your face. How very un-Minnesota of me, I know.
Some of my family members water down their coffee just because they don't like the taste of medium or dark roasts. Hell, even light roasts. Personally, if it's not a special dark roast then I am not a fan.
Amen, Bx!
GoMinnesota!, yes, I could attend Mn gatherings, and I probably do need to do more things like that.
I think Native Minnesotans need to find a way to be more inclusive and learn to find a happy medium with old school friends with new friends.
And it's "encapsulated" not "capsulized".
I typically don't like to comment when people are being all bitchy and stuff but I think the reason people from Minnesota don't warm up to outsiders very fast is the fact that they don't stick around very long in many cases. We don't want to waste time investing in a friendship when the person only moved to Minneapolis to take a job and gain experience and once the economy in Atlanta or Dallas or (Insert Ethnically diverse place that I came from Here) improves they move right back to the warm weather.
Also asking Minnesotans to change is really ridiculous. You would move to Amsterdam and immediately ask them to stop smoking all that pot in cafe's would you? Every culture has good and bad points. I think the good things about Minnesotans far outweigh the hard candy coating you have to break through to get to the creamy center.
Krad I am not here to tell you to love it or leave it.
I am here to tell you to FUCK OFF AND DIE.
How's that for Minnesota Nice?
Oh- and it's not because of your hipper than thou critique...it's because your post and responses annoy the fuck out of me.
So don't leave. Just DIE.
Well then, it looks like Wayne won't need to suffer further intrusions of KRad as his understudy afterall. What a relief, for him.
And KRad: What are you talking about? Most of the initial responses here were agreeing with you and/or making fun of Minnesotans.
David, Not even you can make me stop loving Texas. Texas is a wonderful place...And how you inferred that i consider my car a "badge," i'll never know. Your own hostilities or resentments at work there. Here's some news---you just insulted me and called me "superficial" without realizing it (or maybe you did), but in either case, THAT'S what i'm talking about regarding living here and being offended on a daily basis. I give everything i can haul into a barrel to charity, but you'll only judge me on my car. That's superficial, that's sad. And for the record, your most recent post was the first time you spoke even seemingly honestly. Before that, yes, you were indeed nasty. The crown is still yours. Curious--why would you leave TX??????? Don't adopt the MN passive aggressive thing, you seem way too intelligent to resort to that.
Is there a punch line to this thread? There is, right? KRad's going to offer some sort of "GOTCHA!" at the end of this.
So, read any good books lately? How was The Police show? Anyone else as unproductive as I am today? Good morning MN, how are ya?
Darn! I thought KRad was going away. . .
I'm getting the feeling that Krad didn't leave Texas of her own volition?
I seem to recall something in the paper about 6 years ago about a hot headed vain person of South American decent being asked to leave then ridden out of town on a rail.
(Waiting for Wayne to jump in here, and defend his territory, from KRad the claim-jumper. . . )
My cousin, of Asian descent, moved to Houston last fall with her husband (who is Nigerian), only to return to the Midwest this past March. They realized quickly it was hard to adjust to the move, and meeting people, and wasn't worth it without some real reason to be there, i.e. job, etc.
I'm not gonna judge the entire state of Texas on what is a pretty typical experience with respect to moving as an adult.
To paraphrase Kathy Griffin...
"I talk about people behind their backs, cuz I was raised with manners."
What happened 6 years ago in Texas?
Hmm...Enron?
*pokes thread with stick*
Is it dead, yet?
(Shhhh! Quietly, let's all tip-toe away from this thread, leaving KRad to notice, eventually, that she's the only one left in it. . . )
Alie, I want that on a tshirt, seriously. I love that woman.
"I was raised right!"
I'll judge you if you drive an obnoxious car. It's a reflection of your personality.
If you drive some cheap car, some rust bucket or some normal mid-sized sedan or whatever, who cares? That's not part of your personality generally. If you drive a Hummer H2, an '08 Cadillac Escalade or something expensive and obnoxious, I have every right to judge you and that's not superficial as far as I'm concerned. If you have the money and end up willingly choosing a vehicle that's obnoxious and sends out a loud message, you're fair game.
* * *
I agree with Jason DeRusha too. Responses at first were honest, introspective and generally open about the faults of Minnesotans. People had some disagreements. That's fine. Thread went downhill when people, including KRad started being bitches.
KRAD - Your comments that the car was purchased as a gift to yourself after a great deal of hard work as a reward very nearly defines superficiality (which is not necessarily a bad thing if you are a lawyer or a real estate agent or a plastic surgeon where this is looked upon as an outward expression of your skill). Our "provicial" values don't look kindly upon haughtiness it would seem. Had you purchsed a car as a reinvenstment in your continued reliability and hard work, it is unlikely it would have been German as Beemers and Audi's, while expensive and fun, are not the most reliable cars in the universe. Plus you are paying a premium for the badging on the car.
And why would I leave Texas? Many reasons. But this isn't TXSpeak.
Frankly, I don't want someone to tell me exactly what they think of me to my face. I don't really enjoy face to face confrontation. But that's just me...
Is it...er, do you think it's useful to differentiate, particularly in situations like this, between Twin Citians and Minnesotans? That is truly one of the things that has utterly baffled me about this wonderful city. When I lived in Louisville, we took the greatest of pains to impress upon people that we were not Kentuckians. Same deal when I lived in Pittsburgh with PA at large.
Because I have found interacting with Minnesotans quite a bit different than interacting with native-born Metro urban core people.
/Bx falls on the floor laughing at Raindog's post. YEAH!
Hey Krad. I'm a woman of color born and raised here, but I've lived in other large US cities. I was forced back for situational reasons but I'm aiming to get out again ASAP. So I can sympathize to a small degree. SMALL, I said.
Yes: this state is lily white and some people are less than tolerant of other races, but did you not know that coming in? Seriously? Take some responsibility for your own lack of preparedness and understanding of your surroundings. Humility and accountability are attractive qualities no matter where in the world you are. You come off sounding like a 22-year-old who is still learning how the world works and figuring herself out. Are you?
Being a Colombian woman in Midwestern USA doesn't automatically equal a badge of honor and bitchy diva crown. It SHOULD equal an open mind, a readiness to respectfully educate people when needed, and a good solid coating of strength. Your post, while being partially truthful, sounds pretty whiny. If you've been here that long I'd think you'd have a better-developed crust of cynicism or sense of humor about this place. Instead, you sound like just another angry woman crying about racism who still hasn't figured out DATS HOW IS IZ SOMETIMES. And it's not going to change overnight, or necessarily on YOUR terms.
There's plenty of women of color here who live every day happily, mostly because they choose to do so. I'm one of them. As a fellow brown chick stuck in the Capital of Passive Aggressive Whitey World, I encourage you to have a serious conversation with yourself about DEALING WITH IT, and to make a choice about how YOU will. You can be miserable, you can roll with the everyday bullshit and laugh, or you can get the hell out. And I don't recommend trying to start "discussions" here, either, especially when it's really a "fight" you're wanting but are too passive/aggressive to actually call it that. So there.
And where the hell are you working and living where you're insulted on a daily basis? What are YOU doing that's GETTING you insulted on a daily basis? Minnesotans can be sucky asshole people, just like anywhere else in the world, but I don't think they're that bad. I agree with Foureyes - if you are coming off to people in person like you do on here, maybe you're deserving of it.
Bx just got added to my friends list.
Wait... I hear something... Something faint...THERE IT IS again. A cackle. Like a crow. No. A drunken crow.
NOOOOOO!!!!!! Max's computer was hijacked by Sailor Martin this morning who proceeded to serve as MNSpeak Overlord of the Day by approving this post.
DeRusha, go check on Max, OK? Could be a newsworthy crime scene...
I just bitch about people in my blog. Is that considered passive aggressive?
This Colombian went out and bought the best damn car i could afford after workin' like a dog for so many years.
I... don't even know what to say to that.
what kind of box can you put THAt in?
I would hope that one wouldn't feel the need to put anything in a box. Although if I had to, I'd say that if you're guy driving that Volkswagen, you're probably gay. And if you're a Somali woman driving it, you're probably a really shitty driver. (Oops, did I say that?)
You know, the culture here is what it is. Would someone move to Boston and constantly ask why everyone's so mean? Would someone move to L.A. and constantly ask why everyone's so superficial? I'm not saying that some folks couldn't stand to have their horizons broadened, but what do you expect?
It is if you don't let people see what you write.
Specifically, we need be concerned about this. Max could be in big trouble.
You can email me if you want to see it, Mpls Simpleton.
Texas is a wonderful place
Bwahaha! Tee hee.
And how you inferred that i consider my car a "badge," i'll never know.
Maybe because that's the way you presented it when you said "This Colombian went out and bought the best damn car i could afford"?
Or you don't want to get fired...
Hey anonymous troll, what the fuck is your problem? I'm not even posting all day and you make like five references to me. Why don't you go off on how I'm posting too much too? Because this is like my fourth or fifth one all day! Oh no!
Moving on:
go to any bar in the city. you will make friends.
Ummm, no. I've tried this, and when I go alone I sit there alone until I feel sufficiently stupid and then I go hom. When I go with friends I never make any new ones. Dead end (and an expensive one at that).
These friends of mine are seriously considering whether the cheaper MN real estate is really worth putting up with the lameness of MN people. They've tried to be optimistic and positive, but are so often let down, they're now miserable!
Bx, am I your friend? Because if not, I suddenly don't feel so alone in my struggle.
Oh, and KRad ... let's be palz. I guess I'm the token minnesota-hating outsider or something.
Erica, I'm not gay. But I was afraid to buy an Audi.
It's OK Hedy, I read it a few times and while interesting I have plenty to read. Thanks for the offer thou.
You can email me if you want to see it, Mpls Simpleton.
is it just me, or does that sound dirty?
You're welcome.
Ms. Devine-- Please please please change it back so I can read it????
Wayne, I'll be your friend...feel better now?
this is REALLY funny that someone would post on a Minnesota site to rip on Minnesotans and then wonder why people are defensive. I'm going to head to a Colombian site and post all sorts of stereotypes and see what happens.
hoo-ray!
but I still don't feel better because I have cash flow problems.
Wayne, sell plasma...
I thought Hedy's blog was great too, but the passive aggressive native Minnesotan in me won't let me ask to see it.
Alas, I wish I could, mpls girls. I will add your email to the list if you email me.
Say, why are aren't there pictures from Monday night where apparently 40+ random -- and clearly unfriendly -- MNSpeakers broke bread together at Psycho Suzie's?
A poorly written post about understanding some of the quirks of "culture" in Minnesota gets approved. Responses start out generally fine, with some disagreements. Then the race card gets pulled out by the original poster. Yeah, Minnesotans are weird about race. Different thread, though. And Max, don't do it.
Then the judge-me-by-my-car bit gets pulled out by the original poster.
Point being, this isn't about some of Minnesotans' faults and quirks anymore. It's about someone complaining about people and now we're telling her why we think she's wrong.
Again, this thread is about KRad, not Minnesota.
It's beautiful in a way.
Say, why are aren't there pictures from Monday night where apparently 40+ random -- and clearly unfriendly -- MNSpeakers broke bread together at Psycho Suzie's?
I was definitely the unfriendliest!
Also, I want people to judge me by my bike, because it's faaaaaaaabulous and it shows what an environazi hippie I am.
aeklund- Here's the ones I took but I assume someone else took some too...
Aaron, I'm telling you, Max is trapped under something heavy. There's a new captain in town.
I opened that url at the office and forgot my volume was on high...
"Weelcom to 'Let's Get Drunk....'"
Fkin Sailor Martin...
I've met most of you in person, and we're not exactly the most photogenic bunch.
Since this thread has been hijacked for the better...
I didn't bring a camera to Psycho Suzi's. I didn't see anyone taking pictures, and there is no photographic evidence of me being there. Perhaps then it didn't really take place...
In our collective defense, a rainy night does not exactly bring out the best in anyone's appearance.
Wayne, I'll be your friend...feel better now?
This coming from an admitted MySpace whore. Not that it's meant to be a criticism. She's my friend, too. Alie, did you hear the one about Jennie Sack?
Note to self: When you go out for an Indian buffet, other posters will promote your Sailor Martin movies.
Good to know.
I apparently emailed that Sailor Martin video to my brother twice, yet I have no recollection of ever sending it, even once. well, at leaset I'm not drunk dialing any more.
I've met most of you in person, and we're not exactly the most photogenic bunch.
Except for Jason DeRusha.
Wayne, no one is going to just walk up and talk to you first dude. Not here, not in LA, maybe in Brooklyn, but they're just being proactive in finessing what should be your first step...buy someone a drink. I've made some good friends just watching what people put into a jukebox, buying them a beer and getting into a music discussion. I've done it at Grumpy's twice.
Just make sure you buy dudes beers. Buying them Long Islands will send a different message.
This thread has forced Nateek and I to abandon work and b-line for the Bulldog. If you're in the neighborhood, stop by. Especially the unfriendly ones. I'm the guy in the dirty visor who looks like he should be golfing but is actually drinking a beer.
My clients seemed to have taken the rest of the week off...good for them :) I was supposed to be gone as well...
Hey KRad, that includes you. If want to meet "Minnesota nice" you need to meet my brother.
Which Bulldog? If you're @ NE and still out at 530..I'll be this guy and I'll be thirsty.
http://drunkenmasters.org/foureyes/grandoldday/grandoldday-Thumbnails/15...
That's better
My money problems prevent me from going out to bars until at least next friday.
I'll buy you a drink, Wayne.
Bulldog NE...I'm picking up Max on the way. FIRST EVAR!!! Yes! We'll probably still be there at 5:30.
I have to sit in a meeting and pretend to be interested for ~1/2 hour...after that, the BD-NE sounds mightee fine.
I seeeee... roundabout what time? I've got some plans with a lady (which one is still indeterminate) later on, but considering the office is pretty dead today I may be off a bit early ...
Wayne, I'll buy you the second one.
Wayne - I ain't buying you shit ;)
Put all this friendliness in your pipes and smoke it. Tastes like a Dead show. (That's for you, grote.)
Can we get back to the important point here? That some random anonymous poster sez I'm a sexy beast?
where's my random anonymous posters calling me sexy?
Right here, sexy baby! Hayyy!
Oh, but anyway, i'll try to drop by around 4ish.
( :
I didn't go to high school with you, but can I come too?
I'll go if KRad comes.
KRad, you must!
guess not. cliquey bastards.
Speaking of Colombians...perhaps KRAD knows if they beat Argentina Monday night. I'm too lazy to look it up.
"go to any bar in the city. you will make friends.
Ummm, no. I've tried this, and when I go alone I sit there alone until I feel sufficiently stupid and then I go hom. When I go with friends I never make any new ones. Dead end (and an expensive one at that)."
I'm with Wayne on this one.
"Wayne, no one is going to just walk up and talk to you first dude. Not here, not in LA, maybe in Brooklyn, but they're just being proactive in finessing what should be your first step...buy someone a drink. I've made some good friends just watching what people put into a jukebox, buying them a beer and getting into a music discussion. I've done it at Grumpy's twice.
Just make sure you buy dudes beers. Buying them Long Islands will send a different message."
In my case, they'd usually take the drink I just bought them, and walk away after I asked them to repeat themselves for the 4th time.
doltfinder, I'm pretty sure it's an open invitation.
I'm not meeting up with any of you assholes...was that aggro enuf?
Sounds like a dick party tonight at the Bulldog...
screw you wayne. stop judging me.
Yeah, open to all "MNans"
Here let's bury this thread once and for all.
The bottom line is that if you are from a place (we'll call it A), and you move to a new place (we'll call it B), there are going to be issues. Period. That's the beauty of culture, if it were all the same, if it were all exactly what we expected, then what would be the point of moving?
Yes, there are issues in Minnesota, but there are also issues in Washington (either coast), New York, Texas, West Virginia, etc.
That's why there's compromise. You learn to adapt to your surroundings or attempt to make changes and hope others follow (or you drink alone).
There, that's the final nail. Rico the dead horse is finally buried, and we can all move on. If you're interested, I'll be at Nye's tonight and if you find me and use my super secret blog name, I'll buy you not one, but two drinks. Note: this is the blog that I created that I was forced to remove due to a certain anchorman threatening leagal action).
It is starting to sound like a MNSpeak sausage fest tonight. How interesting that it's taking place in what used to be my favorite gay bar. Hmmm. Male bonding is so important in this day and age.
The only thing I'm judging is a wet t-shirt contest!
Ok, no, I'm not even judging that.
"bros befor hos" josie...
Speaking of which, this is the shirt I wore yesterday:
http://www.tshirthell.com/store/product.php?productid=902
What can I say? I was feeling patriotic.
"before" even...
Someday we'll retaliate with the First Evar Bitches of MNSpeak sleepover and have pillow fights in our bras and practice French kissing. That'll show them!
go to any bar in the city. you will make friends
If I were looking to make friends or even find a date, I would NOT go to the bar to do it. In ANY city. Yeesh.
Someday we'll retaliate with the First Evar Bitches of MNSpeak sleepover and have pillow fights in our bras and practice French kissing. That'll show them!
*thumbs up*
uhhh
Someday we'll retaliate with the First Evar Bitches of MNSpeak sleepover and have pillow fights in our bras and practice French kissing. That'll show them!
Sweet! I haven't made out with a girl since college!
Someday we'll retaliate with the First Evar Bitches of MNSpeak sleepover and have pillow fights in our bras and practice French kissing.
*blink*blink*
Hey, Boom was my favorite gay bar too, but I have much love for Jetset now...but Boom is missed as is Oddfellows.
Erica - what other options have you? Even gallery openings and concerts are just bars masquerading as gallery openings and concerts. Besides, I don't want to be interupted during sweet bass solos. Calhoun is a good option if you're in Uptown perhaps...for 4 months of the year. Its hard to talk while jogging. I don't think gyms are a place to socialize. Church? My guess is church.
I seem to recall some email floating around regarding a 12-month calendar about this.
I actually ran into Andrew at Bulldog N.E. with my family last night. He was a typical Minnesotan jackass. I mean, he came outside, shook my hand, and was introduced to my family like the nice guy he is.
I also drive a Volkswagen... too cheap to buy an Audi. Suck on that, bike-riders! (I kid!)
And I'm not the password to get Leab to buy you a drink, FYI.
Seriously though; if you move somewhere where you don't know a soul, you'll end up at a bar one way or another.
A while back Wayne indicated that he got some coaching, at the last MnSpeak meetup, about how to be less off-putting, and that he was taking that to heart.
Todays' evidence certainly indicates otherwise.
So let's hope that at today's meetup the others will deliver a stronger refresher course, one that will be a lot more effective than the first attempt proved to be.
Let's see if Wayne falls for the bait.
Yeah, I've met andrew too, what kind of douchebag invites people (me) to his home, provides them with free Summit and steaks? Asshole...
We'll also have to play MASH and do that light-as-a-feather, stiff-as-a-board thing.
But be quiet or my mom is totally going to come downstairs and tell us we have to go to sleep!!!
Aaron, Wayne needs to learn to pedal by himself. Stop trying to serve as his training wheels.
MMMM TROLLBAIT
Someday we'll retaliate with the First Evar Bitches of MNSpeak sleepover and have pillow fights in our bras and practice French kissing.
The men of MNSpeak promise not to crash this party like some terrible Friday night Cinemax movie -- okay -- that's not true...
"Men of MNspeak" I can see the calendar now . . .
The men of MNSpeak promise not to crash this party like some terrible Friday night Cinemax movie -- okay -- that's not true...
This is actually a little closer to Comedy Central at Friday, 2 AM territory, isn't it? You know, some '80s comedy with a vaguely suggestive name like Knockers or Rubbers or something.
It's that scene where Wayne, DouglasG and I are climbing to the top of a tree with binoculars and when we fight over whomever has to hold the camera the weight shifts and the branch snaps and then Wayne complains he can't ride his bike with a broken leg.
damn broken leg
Someone give me a lollercoaster! Heh.
I saw a girl in a foot cast brace thing riding a bike the other day though!
Wayne. . . . Shhhh! Go to the Bulldog. Now. Learn.
Doesn't Max dress like a girl to get inside view of this party???
No, I think Max is the one who delivers the pizza we didn't order.
I saw a girl in a foot cast brace thing riding a bike the other day though!
That's kinda hot. Was she wearing glasses?
Yeah it was pretty hot. She may have been.
No, I think Max is the one who delivers the pizza we didn't order.
LOLCANO!!!
Look at Josie bringing the funny!
Having lived in Chicago, Ames, IA, and now here I can say that people are more socially exclusive in IA and MN, and less diverse. But Chicago is more segregated. Last place I lived in Chicago was Ukrainian Village, and back then was still mostly "Ukie." They most definitely knew I was not Ukie, and I was an outsider. But when I had an inoperable arm for a year or so, they helped me carry groceries, shoveled my parking spot, etc. People always chatted with each other in the neighborhood. Where I live now is ethnically diverse but folks have the tendency to only chat with people that look like themselves. But if you say hello, everyone is friendly back. Difference places, different ways of dealing with people. And it's all ok.
I too had problems making friends here. So far, I've met the most diverse group of people through meetin.org (website looks shady, I know, but it's not). Some people are native MNans, some are not. But they are all pretty much inviting, have a broad range of interests, and are involved to meet people. I've met more interesting people through the group, here in MN, than anywhere else I've lived. It breaks you out of the habit of associating only with people that .
Every place has different experiences for everyone. I may have thought Chicago was damn great, but certainly to people from other places it may be impersonal or provincial. Iowa was not my cup of tea, but plenty of others love it. Find what you like where you live, and avoid the stuff you don't like. It will make you happier, and more likely to meet folks that enjoy you.
Erica - what other options have you?
Every friend I've made and every person I've dated here I found at work, were friends of friends, I found via an extracurricular activity (e.g., the choir I sing in) or were my two roommates that I found on craigslist.
No bars. No church.
You should try bars. Early in the evening. Works great. And I'd say 90% of my friends have come from associations with other friends....but the ball doesn't roll itself.
oopsie..."associating only with people that..." meant a specific interest, or social group such as only folks you knew from grade school, are musicians, like knitting, etc.
The thought of Wayne and Aaron and Doug falling out of a tree while Max is ringing the bell in a Domino's hat is really making me giggle uncontrollably, and not surprisingly, the intern is looking at me like I'm insane.
speaking of bars ... to the bulldog!
ciao people!
"You should try bars. Early in the evening. Works great."
My food just ends up getting stolen.
Sweet! I haven't made out with a girl since college!
Neither has Wayne!
Sausage at the Bulldog NE probably isn't going to help, either.
BURN!!!
This thread's gettin' all sassy. I like it.
Now we have to all go, though. And I can't go to the Bulldog; forgot that my sister and her fiancée are coming over to pick up a dining room table.
"The following Wayne-free hours of MnSpeak are coming to courtesy of. . . . . . . The Bulldog NE."
Thanks, Bulldog NE!
I <3 Wayne Fanclub.
"Wake up Minnesotans. Drop the corn-fed humble Midwesterner pretensions, join the human race, and stop treating newcomers like crap. Please!"
I can't decide between two responses, and so, since I've been gone but still getting and cashing the commenting royalties, I'll just put in both.
- Generally, in most any city, you can find people decrying the cliquiness or close-mindedness or insularity or provincialism of the people of that city. Those complainers never have friends, no matter where they live. Go figure.
- It's not pretension, or bigotry, or insularity. We just hate you, specifically, as an individual. Now please leave us alone.
"This white peach tea tastes like making out with a smoker."
Sounds like a good line for Bob.
We should rename MNspeak and call it "Brash and Sassy."
I <3 Wayne Fanclub.
I'd like to see the Wayne Fanclub, such as it (doubtfully) is, conducting its communications offline, via e-mail or whatever, rather than cluttering up MnSpeak with Wayne-drivel.
That shouldn't be too much to ask.
I <3 Wayne Fanclub.
I'm not only the President of the Wayne Fanclub, I'm also a member...wait, what?
You should try bars.
Uh, I'm good on friends, thanks. Not that I'm not accepting new ones, but I'm not that desperate.
Ah, in that case, use it to help you get drunk...they're great for that as well...unless you have the partyinest choir practices in the universe.
We should rename MNspeak and call it "Brash and Sassy."
Very funny Kwatt!
I knew somebody would get it.
I'm not only the President of the Wayne Fanclub, I'm also a member...wait, what?
You can only be in Wayne Fanclub if you post about him anonymously. If you make him post defensively three times in a row you win.
Was just browsing through the current issue of the Rake, and found this example of one of the "Minnesota attitudes" discussed here: Greg LeMond, who has lived here since, oh, about 1987, is not a Minnesotan, he's merely a "resident."
Listening to the Dodgers game on LA radio, they just had a news tease talking about how "the new mayor's main squeeze" was fired from a hispanic television station.
We just don't get that kind of news here.
"We just don't get that kind of news here."
Nah. We just get stories about how our fire chief is a serial sexual harrasser.
"You should try bars. Early in the evening. Works great. And I'd say 90% of my friends have come from associations with other friends....but the ball doesn't roll itself."
The closest I've come to meeting anyone in a bar: I had wrapped up work late, and decided to stop at a bar in NE, that was on my bus route to get something to eat and catch part of a game.
My food had just been put in front of me, and some woman who had come down from the club portion upstairs came up and started talking. SInce I can't hear well, if at all in places like that, I put my hand to my ear and said "What?" She simply grabs a large handful of fires off my plate and walks back upstairs.
jderusha the fact that you drive a VW makes me like you even more.
I am THAT shallow.
Also, I really get off on your killer gams.
Peace, Apple Sauce Lips!
oh, and this whole hang out with your first grade friends thing is weird, too, yoshi. I went to a K-12 school, where there were 300 kids in the entire school. I coordinate school reunions and while we stay in touch, we would find a little weird to all hang out constantly.
You apparently have never met any east coast private school alumni.
And to another responder -- I'm still a little sickened (speaking of ad nauseum) at the whole "love it or leave it" thang, which underscores a lot of your reponses.
Okay, clearly you've never been to New York...or America.
PS-mad thanks for the drinks, fellas.
ever think we as minnesotans just don't dig drama as much as most? i think most people figure people are dealing with enough shit in life so why add to it, just to create more? but we do vent on our friends about it, because ya gotta get it out - but why create more shit to deal with? now, all we need to learn is who we can vent to and who we cannot. it's just a way of life. sometimes it just isn't gossip, but people getting other people's perspectives. a lot of the issues concerning making friends after you're out of college is because everyone's starting to settle down and start families. so meeting people gets tougher. i myself have a few friends from way back, but they aren't my closest friends. those would be people from many places. i truly think the differences are between people and not based on where they live. and people like yourself krad, just like to generalize because it poses an easier 'fight' and is soaked in drama. it's just life. get over it.
I came hear from AZ, and found the MN folks to be un-friendly as you described. After a few years of observation it occurred to me that everybody is from MN, and they all speak the same language . On the other hand, everybody from AZ is from some place else, and this forces them to open up to strangers to make friends. With that said, I no longer think they are mean, just different than my past experience.
Same goes for CA and FL
I came hear from AZ, and found the MN folks to be un-friendly as you described.
As a native, let me try to explain. Years ago, this place used to be a whole lot nicer. Idyllic even. But then people started moving to this area who brought a whole lot of baggage with them. Drugs. Violent crime. General thuggery. Our taxes went way up to pay for many more cops than we ever needed before. We had to build a new prison. Our streets became less safe. Our schools turned to sh*t. Our traditions and culture of going up north to the cabin or pursuing our favorite pastimes of huntin, fishin, campin, and boatin were ridiculed and even came under attack as politically incorrect.
Know-it-alls from the coasts tell us on a daily basis that our towns' infrastructure, transportation, architecture, indeed our entire way of life is all wrong and needs to be changed to look like some city like Boston or San Francisco or worse, someplace in Europe they once visited. And when we give them a collective "no thanks, we like it here the way it is" they think we're being terminally provincial.
So you take all those factors and the result is a native population that isn't too anxious to hear that you're another one of those outsiders who love us so much you just had to live here, and oh by the way, here's a list of new accommodations we'll have to provide because you're here.
So when you happen to overhear some locals whisper to each other, "he's not from here," you'll know what they're really thinking.
- a native
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