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	<title>Comments on: Walker Art Center: Who Decides If It&#8217;s Crap?</title>
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	<link>http://www.secretsofthecity.com/mnspeak/walker-art-center-who-decides-if-its-crap</link>
	<description>Minneapolis + St. Paul</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 06:28:20 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: rwblake </title>
		<link>http://www.secretsofthecity.com/mnspeak/walker-art-center-who-decides-if-its-crap#comment-230150</link>
		<dc:creator>rwblake </dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 19:12:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-230150</guid>
		<description>Not everything in an art museum is art. 
A concept is not art. Art is a concept or image that has been created with the use of a skill or talent. 
I have a good story, I have been to numerous Art museums in Chicago, NY and where I live- Philadelphia. I have also been to the Walker. 
The Philadelphia museum had a room at one time, a special work the museum paid for with millions of dollars. White walls with crayon scribbles of all colors. No images of any kind. Just a concept that it was influenced by the Illiad. 
We heard the guides description of it and lingered on. We were not with the tour. We were commenting to each other how the room looks like they let a three year old in to scribble over the walls. The security guard over heard us and added his comment, &quot;All I can say is he must have been a great salesman.&quot; 

So why is it art? Because it challenges and idea of what art is? That is a concept without skill applied to it. 
Unfortunately, the intellectual art world is taken in too often by a concept without skill applied. 
Not all modern art is this way, but there is a good portion of it that is. Maybe we do need to start calling it what it is, instead of a feigned intellectualism that we get it and others do not because they have not taken the time. 
I&#039;ve seen that work of art as it is described, numerous times. It is still crayons on the wall no matter how long you look at it and at varying distances, etc. 

RWB 
PS- I was born and lived in MN for 21 years. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not everything in an art museum is art.<br />
A concept is not art. Art is a concept or image that has been created with the use of a skill or talent.<br />
I have a good story, I have been to numerous Art museums in Chicago, NY and where I live- Philadelphia. I have also been to the Walker.<br />
The Philadelphia museum had a room at one time, a special work the museum paid for with millions of dollars. White walls with crayon scribbles of all colors. No images of any kind. Just a concept that it was influenced by the Illiad.<br />
We heard the guides description of it and lingered on. We were not with the tour. We were commenting to each other how the room looks like they let a three year old in to scribble over the walls. The security guard over heard us and added his comment, &#8220;All I can say is he must have been a great salesman.&#8221; </p>
<p>So why is it art? Because it challenges and idea of what art is? That is a concept without skill applied to it.<br />
Unfortunately, the intellectual art world is taken in too often by a concept without skill applied.<br />
Not all modern art is this way, but there is a good portion of it that is. Maybe we do need to start calling it what it is, instead of a feigned intellectualism that we get it and others do not because they have not taken the time.<br />
I&#8217;ve seen that work of art as it is described, numerous times. It is still crayons on the wall no matter how long you look at it and at varying distances, etc. </p>
<p>RWB<br />
PS- I was born and lived in MN for 21 years.</p>
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		<title>By: justpbob</title>
		<link>http://www.secretsofthecity.com/mnspeak/walker-art-center-who-decides-if-its-crap#comment-226212</link>
		<dc:creator>justpbob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 14:04:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-226212</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Are we &lt;strong&gt;&lt;em&gt;still&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/strong&gt; talking about this place?1? One from the vaults: &lt;a href=&quot;7614&quot;&gt;MNSpeak&#039;s first post&lt;/a&gt; (April 23, 2005), a review of an exhibit at the Walker.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are we <strong><em>still</em></strong> talking about this place?1? One from the vaults: <a href="7614">MNSpeak&#8217;s first post</a> (April 23, 2005), a review of an exhibit at the Walker.</p>
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		<title>By: noodleman</title>
		<link>http://www.secretsofthecity.com/mnspeak/walker-art-center-who-decides-if-its-crap#comment-225378</link>
		<dc:creator>noodleman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 20:08:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-225378</guid>
		<description>@Shark: I don&#039;t think any (many?) of us criticized Ben for expressing his opinion. Yes, some art is crap, i.e. art for art&#039;s sake. Yes, some artists are commissioned to create crap. Been there; done that. But we&#039;d be able to express our opinion of such things in more detail beyond &quot;what a pile of junk.&quot;

Ben doesn&#039;t need to establish his bona fides any more than a person running for political office needs to have majored in political science or political history in order to qualify as a candidate.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Shark: I don&#8217;t think any (many?) of us criticized Ben for expressing his opinion. Yes, some art is crap, i.e. art for art&#8217;s sake. Yes, some artists are commissioned to create crap. Been there; done that. But we&#8217;d be able to express our opinion of such things in more detail beyond &#8220;what a pile of junk.&#8221;</p>
<p>Ben doesn&#8217;t need to establish his bona fides any more than a person running for political office needs to have majored in political science or political history in order to qualify as a candidate.</p>
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		<title>By: Max Sparber</title>
		<link>http://www.secretsofthecity.com/mnspeak/walker-art-center-who-decides-if-its-crap#comment-225376</link>
		<dc:creator>Max Sparber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 19:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-225376</guid>
		<description>Some art is crap, no doubt. But not because it isn&#039;t instantly palatable. Not everything needs to communicate instantly. In fact, I don&#039;t mind that some art makes no sense at all. I think we have an idea that art is some sort of conveyance device for deep thoughts. Sometimes, a line is just a line.

I got an email from Ben, the author, to tell me he actually is a fan of the arts. It was a rather nice letter. I wrote back to suggest he go back to the Walker and try some of their other offerings -- they have a lot of art, and not all of it is going to be to everybody&#039;s taste, but some of it probably will.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some art is crap, no doubt. But not because it isn&#8217;t instantly palatable. Not everything needs to communicate instantly. In fact, I don&#8217;t mind that some art makes no sense at all. I think we have an idea that art is some sort of conveyance device for deep thoughts. Sometimes, a line is just a line.</p>
<p>I got an email from Ben, the author, to tell me he actually is a fan of the arts. It was a rather nice letter. I wrote back to suggest he go back to the Walker and try some of their other offerings &#8212; they have a lot of art, and not all of it is going to be to everybody&#8217;s taste, but some of it probably will.</p>
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		<title>By: Bixby</title>
		<link>http://www.secretsofthecity.com/mnspeak/walker-art-center-who-decides-if-its-crap#comment-225375</link>
		<dc:creator>Bixby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 19:56:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-225375</guid>
		<description>Damien Hurst, is that you? I didn&#039;t peg you as a MNSpeak reader!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Damien Hurst, is that you? I didn&#8217;t peg you as a MNSpeak reader!</p>
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		<title>By: Shark-in-a-tank</title>
		<link>http://www.secretsofthecity.com/mnspeak/walker-art-center-who-decides-if-its-crap#comment-225372</link>
		<dc:creator>Shark-in-a-tank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 19:45:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-225372</guid>
		<description>&quot;...Ben Kaufman is apparently not an artist himself, nor does he have any kind of art background. I am no artist, student of art history, connoisseur of modern art, museum curator, or even remotely arty person myself...&quot;


I *am* an artist, with an artistic background (in fact, I used to work at the Walker Art Center). And some of what they show is, indeed, total crap.

Not everything, mind you, but certainly a higher percentage of crap-to-art than some of the other museums and galleries in town. 

Case in point: 

The Belgian artist who the Walker Art Center flew in over a period of two years, who spent that time making 2-hour still videos of the window in his apartment, and ceramic &quot;sculptures&quot; of his handprints. (Oh, and he also made a video of a &quot;spoon bridge&quot; snow globe from the museum gift shop -that was AWESOME.) 

Yes, context is important. And a little knowledge of Art History is certainly helpful.

But at a certain point, the art needs to be judged on its own merits. 

As a painter I know once said, &quot;Art is about communicating an idea or feeling, and if it&#039;s not communicating with the audience, it&#039;s not very effective.&quot; 

The fact that Honeywell (or the Best Buy corporation), or a wealthy patron or collector is willing to throw money at certain &quot;name brand&quot; artists lends their artwork a kind of legitimacy that most working artists will never have. (A dead shark? -&quot;that is to laugh!&quot; But a dead shark in the Charles Saatchi collection? &quot;Brilliant!&quot;)

I&#039;m not saying that I completely agree with everything that Ben Kaufman wrote in his original article. But sometimes a gut reaction (&quot;the Emperor has no clothes!&quot;) is just as valid as an expert opinion. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;Ben Kaufman is apparently not an artist himself, nor does he have any kind of art background. I am no artist, student of art history, connoisseur of modern art, museum curator, or even remotely arty person myself&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>I *am* an artist, with an artistic background (in fact, I used to work at the Walker Art Center). And some of what they show is, indeed, total crap.</p>
<p>Not everything, mind you, but certainly a higher percentage of crap-to-art than some of the other museums and galleries in town. </p>
<p>Case in point: </p>
<p>The Belgian artist who the Walker Art Center flew in over a period of two years, who spent that time making 2-hour still videos of the window in his apartment, and ceramic &#8220;sculptures&#8221; of his handprints. (Oh, and he also made a video of a &#8220;spoon bridge&#8221; snow globe from the museum gift shop -that was AWESOME.) </p>
<p>Yes, context is important. And a little knowledge of Art History is certainly helpful.</p>
<p>But at a certain point, the art needs to be judged on its own merits. </p>
<p>As a painter I know once said, &#8220;Art is about communicating an idea or feeling, and if it&#8217;s not communicating with the audience, it&#8217;s not very effective.&#8221; </p>
<p>The fact that Honeywell (or the Best Buy corporation), or a wealthy patron or collector is willing to throw money at certain &#8220;name brand&#8221; artists lends their artwork a kind of legitimacy that most working artists will never have. (A dead shark? -&#8221;that is to laugh!&#8221; But a dead shark in the Charles Saatchi collection? &#8220;Brilliant!&#8221;)</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying that I completely agree with everything that Ben Kaufman wrote in his original article. But sometimes a gut reaction (&#8221;the Emperor has no clothes!&#8221;) is just as valid as an expert opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: DouglasG</title>
		<link>http://www.secretsofthecity.com/mnspeak/walker-art-center-who-decides-if-its-crap#comment-225362</link>
		<dc:creator>DouglasG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 18:23:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-225362</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t get me started on all the stuff I&#039;ve learned from &quot;The Dude.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t get me started on all the stuff I&#8217;ve learned from &#8220;The Dude.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: jane</title>
		<link>http://www.secretsofthecity.com/mnspeak/walker-art-center-who-decides-if-its-crap#comment-225341</link>
		<dc:creator>jane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 16:52:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-225341</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Bixby, if someone dies mysteriously, you can dust for fingerprints and try to find the culprit. If someone dies choking on vomit, on &lt;em&gt;someone else&#039;s&lt;/em&gt; vomit, well, it&#039;s just a mystery, b/c you can&#039;t really dust for vomit.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Thus spake Nigel Tufnel. Amen.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&#160;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;img src=&quot;http://www.sicmagazine.net/images/54.jpg&quot; border=&quot;0&quot; width=&quot;338&quot; height=&quot;400&quot; /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bixby, if someone dies mysteriously, you can dust for fingerprints and try to find the culprit. If someone dies choking on vomit, on <em>someone else&#8217;s</em> vomit, well, it&#8217;s just a mystery, b/c you can&#8217;t really dust for vomit.</p>
<p>Thus spake Nigel Tufnel. Amen.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p><img src="http://www.sicmagazine.net/images/54.jpg" border="0" width="338" height="400" /></p>
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		<title>By: ryanol</title>
		<link>http://www.secretsofthecity.com/mnspeak/walker-art-center-who-decides-if-its-crap#comment-225323</link>
		<dc:creator>ryanol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 15:32:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-225323</guid>
		<description>in my best Dude accent
&quot;but that&#039;s like...yer opinion...man.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>in my best Dude accent<br />
&#8220;but that&#8217;s like&#8230;yer opinion&#8230;man.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: ericam</title>
		<link>http://www.secretsofthecity.com/mnspeak/walker-art-center-who-decides-if-its-crap#comment-225317</link>
		<dc:creator>ericam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 15:08:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-225317</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve loved all of Jane&#039;s comments so far.

I don&#039;t know why kc!&#039;s comments are the ones that made me want to copy/paste/respond, but here they are.

&lt;em&gt;Again I&#039;ll go back to the NASCAR example. I don&#039;t have to learn about it to express my opinion that it is stupid. I know enough and have seen enough. I also don&#039;t know very much about the butter heads at the state fair, but I think they are awesome. I&#039;ve seen them, and they are cool, and I&#039;m expressing my opinion. Do I have to be a dairy farmer and State Fair hisotrian for that opinion to be valid?&lt;/em&gt;

Would you be willing to publish an op-ed in your college newspaper about how stupid NASCAR is based on what you &lt;b&gt;do&lt;/b&gt; know?

&lt;em&gt;His view is perfectly valid and based on facts.&lt;/em&gt;

My main point here is about trust and reputation. This kid is entirely entitled to his opinion. The opinion he expressed is based on his experience. Fine. Lots of people agree with him. Fine. But in order for me to take it seriously as commentary &lt;b&gt;on the art&lt;/b&gt;, I need to know that he knows what he&#039;s talking about. Since I don&#039;t know him, I can only infer from what he wrote, and that inference is that he hasn&#039;t studied art and didn&#039;t try too hard to learn more about what he was seeing. Based on that, I lend no credence to the opinion he expressed &lt;b&gt;about the art&lt;/b&gt;, and I wouldn&#039;t base my decision to go look at the art on anything he said.

&lt;em&gt;I think people don&#039;t like this guys writing style, his opinion, and maybe that he is from St. Cloud, so they jump on him. But if certain regular MNSpeakers do the same, they get a pass.&lt;/em&gt;

To a small extent, if someone is a regular MNspeaker, I know a little something about them and that influences how seriously I take their expressed opinions about cars, art, steaks, butter sculptures, NASCAR, whatever. (I&#039;d argue a great steak and a butter sculpture have many similar qualities, btw.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve loved all of Jane&#8217;s comments so far.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know why kc!&#8217;s comments are the ones that made me want to copy/paste/respond, but here they are.</p>
<p><em>Again I&#8217;ll go back to the NASCAR example. I don&#8217;t have to learn about it to express my opinion that it is stupid. I know enough and have seen enough. I also don&#8217;t know very much about the butter heads at the state fair, but I think they are awesome. I&#8217;ve seen them, and they are cool, and I&#8217;m expressing my opinion. Do I have to be a dairy farmer and State Fair hisotrian for that opinion to be valid?</em></p>
<p>Would you be willing to publish an op-ed in your college newspaper about how stupid NASCAR is based on what you <b>do</b> know?</p>
<p><em>His view is perfectly valid and based on facts.</em></p>
<p>My main point here is about trust and reputation. This kid is entirely entitled to his opinion. The opinion he expressed is based on his experience. Fine. Lots of people agree with him. Fine. But in order for me to take it seriously as commentary <b>on the art</b>, I need to know that he knows what he&#8217;s talking about. Since I don&#8217;t know him, I can only infer from what he wrote, and that inference is that he hasn&#8217;t studied art and didn&#8217;t try too hard to learn more about what he was seeing. Based on that, I lend no credence to the opinion he expressed <b>about the art</b>, and I wouldn&#8217;t base my decision to go look at the art on anything he said.</p>
<p><em>I think people don&#8217;t like this guys writing style, his opinion, and maybe that he is from St. Cloud, so they jump on him. But if certain regular MNSpeakers do the same, they get a pass.</em></p>
<p>To a small extent, if someone is a regular MNspeaker, I know a little something about them and that influences how seriously I take their expressed opinions about cars, art, steaks, butter sculptures, NASCAR, whatever. (I&#8217;d argue a great steak and a butter sculpture have many similar qualities, btw.)</p>
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