Secrets of the City

I’m trying to locate the source but I recall reading something last night about a group of restaurants in the Twin Cities that will take donations so they can truck food to flood workers this weekend. I’ll post a link if I can find it.

you know, i understand the blogger uber alles aspect to all of this, but the Fargo Forum, KARE-TV and Star Tribune coverage has been miles and miles better than anything done by Bob Collins or MinnStories.

Sounds like things are getting worse.

I put together some information for the American Lung Association in North Dakota website on some of the respiratory health risks associated with floodwaters.

I hear local ACE Hardware stores are selling cleanup supply kits that will be shiped to the residents hit by the flooding. All the focus today is on holding the water back — as it should be — but they will need a LOT of these very soon.

Here’s the Twitter feed:

http://search.twitter.com/search?q=fargo

Sounds like local authorities are also dealing with out-of-town media, not always in a positive way.

@justbob: I’d arrest them, too, for standing on a sandbag levee. It sucks to be stupid, even if you’re with CNN.

Also @micsolis on Twitter reports: People stealing sandbags from Fargo levees to use for themselves. What kind of brains in Fargo?

Starting to get worried. Have family and friends that live between MeritCare Hospital and the river on the north side.

Haven’t heard from my parents in a week, either.

I think I’m less worried about them surviving the crest, and more worried that levees are going to fail over the next two weeks as the river falls. That’s an enormous length of time for these levees to be under that amount of pressure.

One thing that’s annoying the hell out of me is all these idiots praising the F/M because there’s no looting going on “like in New Orleans after Katrina.”

OK, first, notice that one word: AFTER. Second noodleman notes that people are starting to steal sandbags. Third, hopefully, we won’t find out what would happen if the levees fail to the extent they did in NOLA.

Re: Bob’s link — it clearly had nothing to do with being media and everything to do with messing around on top of the dike.

I haven’t heard much news about Grand Forks. Even on the Grand Forks Herald they’re talking about Fargo. If Fargo’s dikes hold up, that’s the more water they’re speeding up and sending north.

Kurtis: All but one bridge in Grand Forks is closed. The water is moving slower there (due to ice, temps), which is once reason the Fargo flooding is so bad.

As i mentioned before, the Red River of the North is one of the nation’s few north-flowing rivers. So water runs from (usually) warmer area into ice, hence the floods.

More bad news — another snowstorm is expected in Fargo on Monday.

“As i mentioned before, the Red River of the North is one of the nation’s few north-flowing rivers. So water runs from (usually) warmer area into ice, hence the floods.”

Imagining Bob saying this and sounding exactly like Cliff Clavin,

More like “imaging Bob ever sound NOT like Cliff Clavin,” Rat.

Not the first time I’ve been compared to old Ciff. Won’t be the last.

Animal related flood news, from Red River farm broadcaster Don Wick (formerly of WCCO-AM).

NDSU Horse Park has taken in 110 horses that were forced out of their barns/stables by the floods. Hay/bedding donations called “amazing.”

Grand Forks has a diversion system in place, put in after the last major flooding. Fargo never put in such a system. That’s one reason why there’s less worry in the Forks.

The issue on the north side, as well as most of town, isn’t the actual water. It’s the potential loss of services; water and sewer are already shut off in parts of Moorhead (that’s why Concordia is shut down and why Moorhead State sent students home today), and electrical will be not far behind. No one at Moorhead State is in serious danger of actually being flooded.

Again, five minutes on an authoratative website like the Forum will yield you far, far more useful information than random and unverified tweets.

Again, five minutes on an authoratative website like the Forum will yield you far, far more useful information than random and unverified tweets.

Says the unverified notjustbob…

“Third, hopefully, we won’t find out what would happen if the levees fail to the extent they did in NOLA.”

Levee failures cause flooding, not looting.

Rat, looting tends to not happen in populated areas where law enforcement and societal order are still in place.

I think the Forum needs to rethink their “UNPRECEDENTED HISTORY” headline. Isn’t that like saying, “something that happened in the past is unlike anything that has ever happened in the past”?

The issue on the north side, as well as most of town, isn’t the actual water.

Uhm no, the actual water is very much an issue. They’re not too concerned about the dikes being topped, but they ARE worried about whether the dikes can last the duration.

They’ve built miles of contingency dikes behind the primary dikes for this very reason. Two neighborhoods were evactuated last night because they were between the primary and contingency dikes, and concerns about the integrity of the primary dikes arose.

But yes, vulnerable populations and potentially isolated high grounds are also being evacuated because of possible service disruption.

@notjustbob: Since you didn’t provide a link, I will: Fargo-Moorhead Inforum.

Re: Useful vs. random/unverified info. Sigh. Remember those stories in the “verified” media about gang rapes going on in the Silverdome after Katrina? Turns out it didn’t happen … at least to the extent it had originally been reported by the “verified” media. Jus’ sayin’.

To highlight the concern. They’re still a day or two away from the predicted crest of 42 feet. It’s then not expected to start dropping until next Wed.(and even then not very fast).

So they have tens of miles of 9-10 foot sand bag and temporary clay dikes that have to withstand all of that water for at least a couple of weeks. NOT an easy task.

“Remember those stories in the “verified” media about gang rapes going on in the Silverdome after Katrina? Turns out it didn’t happen”

So that means the Fargo Forum is incorrect? My god, that’s the most specious argument I’ve seen on the Interwebs in a long, long time. If that’s the best you can do, go home right now.

“Uhm no, the actual water is very much an issue.”

Not on the north side of Moorhead, at the moment. Which was my original reference. And the area evacuated last night is on the SOUTH side of Moorhead, south of Main Avenue and north of the freeway. The Fargo Forum had an absolutely lovely map of the area.

See what happens when we rely on tweets as our primary source of data?

@notjustbob: I took your OP as a reference to the Twitter feed, i.e. “unverified.” What I implied was that “verified” media can be just as erroneous with their reporting as an unverified source when news is happening “right now.” If that’s too broad of a concept for your brain to handle, take a nap.

Of course no rapes happened in the Silverdome. It’s in Michigan.

If you mean the Superdome in New Orleans, yes, those stories have been debunked: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/sep/06/hurricanekatrina.usa3

Those reports of rape and murder first appeared on FOX, by the way.

In the meanwhile, the terrific Big Picture blog has some astonishing photos of the Red River flood: http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/03/red_river_flooding.html

” looting tends to not happen in populated areas where law enforcement and societal order are still in place.”

We’re sort of talking across each other there. But when stealing takes place, i blame thieves not the external factors that give the opportunity for looting.

@max: Pardon moi. A dome is a dome.

Well, now that I know that Gawker is on the story, I’ll be getting all my flood news from them.

There’s no place like dome, noodleman.

I wouldn’t know, but for the fact that I lived a short distince from the Superdome, and passed it when I was fleeing Katrina.

funny line on 30 rock the other night:

“we were still upset over Katrina.”
“yea. it’s terrible what those people did to the superdome.”

We’re sort of talking across each other there. But when stealing takes place, i blame thieves not the external factors that give the opportunity for looting.

Have we not had this discussion before? While stealing is not right, leaving your door wide open is not a good idea. Not having significant protection in areas vulnerable to looting is leaving the door open for crime to happen.

The images on the “Big Picture” blog max linked to upthread are amazing, and really help tell the story.

It’s not a good idea, certainly. I’ll agree with that much.

I was just about to post the same thing, Bob. It’s fair to say that I’ve never been as cold, wet and tired as the people of F-M are right now.

robertgsmith01: RT @mashable Reading: “Fargo uses social networks to fight floodwaters” http://bit.ly/ugx3

The images on the “Big Picture” blog max linked to upthread are amazing,

+1.  That ladder/construction cone bag filling system is pretty clever.

Not on the north side of Moorhead, at the moment. Which was my original reference. And the area evacuated last night is on the SOUTH side of Moorhead, south of Main Avenue and north of the freeway. The Fargo Forum had an absolutely lovely map of the area.

Dude, Oakport Township, on the NORTH end of Moorhead was abandoned. 90% of the homes there are below the expected crest, 50 are already lost. In fact they were one of the first areas ordered evacuated.

The sewage treatment plant on the north side of Fargo is under watch, and contingency dikes have been built to protect it in case primary dikes fail.

my parents own neighborhood on the northside has had contingency dikes built a few blocks away from them.

Water is very much a concern on the north side.

We’re sort of talking across each other there. But when stealing takes place, i blame thieves not the external factors that give the opportunity for looting.

 We don’t know what the thieves in Fargo will do if they get the same opportunity, because they don’t have the same opportunity right now.

It’s a stupid comparison for people to make.

1. Fargo is still in the midst of the flood. (The looting in NOLA didn’t start until AFTER katrina had passed).

2. Even if the levees and dikes fail, Fargo won’t be evacuated to the extent NOLA was, nor will the damage be as extensive. Law enforcement, civil, and social infastructure will still be largely intact.

That’s just for starters.

There have most certainly been plenty of rapes in the Silverdome. I saw the Lions get raped there at least a dozen times.

BREAKING: Nearly 3,000 asked to leave their homes in Moorhead.

As a comic I don’t think your hitting today, g rote

The Rat has a point. Even Andrew Dice Clay doesen’t do “rape jokes” anymore.

Eastbound I-94 closed between Jamestown and Fargo.

House fire reported in Oakport. Firefighters can’t find aroute in to deal with it.

So much for the possibility I might stay with my brother-in-law this weekend. He lives in Valley City, between Jameston and Fargo.

For those who like the “future of newspapers” stories, this related news.

@Bob – They only closed the eastbound lanes. You can stay with your brother-in-law. You just can’t come back.

My wife might approve the trip now (grin).

I may have to visit, I’ve heard there’s some big wet dikes up there.

It looks like this is going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

Don’t know why people still want to live there with the threat of flooding all the time.

It’s nice country, and there isn’t a threat of flooding ‘all the time’

I’m in Fargo right now. I just saw Sean Penn cruise by in a speedboat. He had a video camera in one hand, a shotgun in the other, and he was kissing some dude on the mouth. So at least theres that parallel.

Another parallel: Sean Penn is doing more good for the people of Fargo-Moorhead than George W. Bush.

Yes, and FEMA’s been on the scene for a couple of days already but there’s not much they can do until the waters recede more.