Secrets of the City

If there is no beer in Heaven, as the polka player says, I see no need for a teenage axe murderer to get slammed in the Slammer. Do the crime? Do the time.

Such a sad thing. How long before a 15 year old gets a life sentence? Why even have juvenile court or sealed juvenile records if they are just as responsible as adults?

@kc!: Juveniles can already be charged as adults for committing the same violent acts. Why shouldn’t an axe murderer, regardless of their age, be kept in jail for a very long time?

I doubt if this sentence will be handed down very often — I certainly hope its not — but in some crimes so horrible, it may be the most just option. In many other states, they would be put to death.

Because 15 year olds can be helped and it is wrong to treat someone society has determined unable to act maturely as a mature adult. Teenagers can’t sign contracts, join the military, drink, smoke, or other things because they are not responsible enough, but if they commit a crime, they are held as responsible as an adult. It is hypocritical.

Plus, a life sentance is never for life. So they will get out of jail as 50 year olds with no skills -except how to commit crime-, no friends -except criminals- and no education. How is locking them up, instead of trying to rehabilitate, a good thing for society?

I think extreme cases call for extreme measures, but with that said, we have a strange “society” that can impose all the responsibilities of adulthood upon a 17 year old, yet grant none of them the rights.

@kc!: the very first words are:

Juveniles can be sentenced to life without the possibility of release

“In many other states, they would be put to death.”

Not any more bob. At least, not until Scalia and Thomas stage their putsch on the SCOTUS.

@champs: The reason for that conundrum, I suppose, is that some 17-year olds refuse to act as juveniles. If you commit an adult felony (e.g. murder), you should be treated as an adult. Why do you suppose dealers like using kids as runner? Because the kid, if caught, won’t do any time for the crime.

if they commit a crime, they are held as responsible as an adult. It is hypocritical.

Not all crimes. Only violent felonies … usually murder. Or would you rather they serve their detention at home?

Your responses to things like this always surprise me, kc. As far as i am concerned, two gang bangers who shoot a teenager 12 times in an alley as he begs for his life are beyond help already, and have no right to ever be free again. i don’t care if they can legally have a beer or not. they lost their chance to be part of society.

We have become a society where the answers only lie in prison for all that do wrong. “The US has more than two million people in prison, a greater percentage of its population than any other country and disproportionately people of color. Less well-known is that the vast majority are nonviolent offenders—and that half are of student age.” (shit I don’t know how to link. Here’s the link http://www.psc-cuny.org/MayPrisoncomplex.htm )

Sure, what these specific guys did was really, really bad, but allowing kids to be put in jail for the rest of their lives is not the answer. Young people are especially vulnerable to undiagnosed mental illness, particularly schizophrenia. They are more likely to be taken advantage by adults. They don’t always understand the consequences of their mistakes. And granted, we are talking about 17 year olds in this case, but the law applies to more than just 17 year old.

I’d like to see adult modified to align more with reality. Probably 18 for girls and 21 for boys. I’d like to see more psychotherapy for all in jail, especially youth. I’d like to see adults who use kids to hold their drugs or do their killings for them because they can’t be punished as harshly to be punished for child abuse.

kc!, you make cold-blooded murder sound like it’s no big thing. I can understand your deep compassion and appreciate your belief in the good of people but there are some people who are not capable of being “corrected.” They are psychopaths. And a juvenile is just as able of being psychopathic as an adult.

kc, we have too many people in jail for drug offenses. weed offenses. the people we are talking about are killers, and people like them wouldn’t think twice about shooting you in the face just to steal your purse. how can you think that someone shouldnt be punished to the fullest extent of the law for killing another human being? i don’t get it. what do you think the parents and loved ones of Christopher Lynch feel about this?

Let’s look at this specific case. The 17 year old was a gang member and the killing was part of a gang dispute. He committed a terrible crime and should be punished.

BUT, he was recruited to that gang by adults. He was brainwashed that this sort of killing is okay by adults. He committed the crime because it was expected of him by his fellow gang members, many of who are adults. He was used by the gang and brainwashed by the gang. While ultimately he committed the crime, I don’t think he should be held completely responsible for it. He’s still young and there is still a chance of rehabilitation.

Let’s put him in jail. Let’s give him weekly psychotherapy. Let’s keep him away from other gang members. Let’s give him role models, an education, and skills he can use when he gets out. Let’s allow for a possibility of parole in 10 years based on the achievements he makes and the willingness to reenter society as a law abiding citizen. Let’s not just throw him away because he made bad decisions as a child and clearly did not have proper role models or parenting.

@kc!: That’s conjecture about the juvie gangsta being “brainwashed” by adults. (Heck, the whole military service system is based on brainwashing. Let’s start there if we want to eliminate brainwashing.)

I can say I’ve been brainwashed, too, in my life; like the time I participated in the egging of a house when I was 12. “I was just trying to fit in, y’know.”

Would you forgive a juvenile terrorist bomber because they were brainwashed before committing mass murder? And, if so, why not forgive murderous adults who have been brainwashed by any of a thousand things out there that target our desires?

Sorry, kc!, if you do the crime, you gotta do the time.

I just think it is a terrible view of humanity to think a child cannot be rehabilitated. And yes, I would forgive a juvenile terrorist bomber. And I think Manson’s followers should be fogiven too instead of dying in jail.

This is a great atrocity, and really when you think about it- a case of double jeapardy. Most seventeen year olds don’t even know this exists (probably because it shouldn’t).

The important thing to keep in mind besides the extensive time that the ‘inmate’ would be serving, is that he/she would also be going to an adult prison. If I am not mistaken, there are 2 ‘gateway’ prisons: St Cloud State, and Stillwater State Prison. Maximum security, everyone goes there to begin with, then potentially get transferred to a medium security state prison ie- Lino Lakes.

I visited St. Cloud State Prison, and met a man who was sentenced for a few grams of crack posession with intent to sell. He was sentenced to 86 months, might get out with good time doing 2/3 of that. But, he will still suffer from ‘institutionalization’, probably meet LOTS of better crack dealers, have to figure out a way to survive in prison, which most likely will have some resemblence to how he survived on the streets (ie- street smarts, affiliations, not trusting people, etc.). His crime was non violent, and also his first offense. Easy for him to say, but their were prison officials standing next to him who did not correct him. It is very hard for me to imagine them letting him lie about this either, and I got the impression that they knew his ’story’ although that is just speculation on my part.

Isn’t it great how we are building/expanding prisons at such a high rate, yet our educational system is declining?!

America has one of the highest incarceration rates in the world, and the vast majority are non violent drug offenses. Current research indicated that there most likely is a genetic component to drug addiction (including alcohol). Yet if some of that drug ends up in someone else’s hands, even if you are a juvenile, you have the likelihood of doing adult time, significant time, with an adult felony on your record. Wow, that sure makes trying to pick up your life outside of the slammer tough, even if you want to pick up the pieces and ‘do right’, you have to put that down on every job application. Yet we expect them to obtain employment??

I once watched a documentary on the Discovery Channel about the history of drugs. In America, once upon a time, they all were legal. Long story short- as each drug became associated with a minority it was criminalized. And what’s not so funny is the only hardcore drug to remain legal was the one most stereotyped by and familiar to white people! Alcohol.

And this blog entry is coming from a mildly ‘conservative’ white person. It is time for a change.