Secrets of the City

Jesus, WBL. Shameful. When I went to North Campus nearly 20-years ago (holy), I had 3 black classmates out of 500 or so, I think. Everybody got along okay with Cedric, Chris and Jachai. Maybe stuff happened to them with the “shop class kids” that they didn’t talk about. Who knows. Maybe it would’ve been different if one of them was a black girl. Have things actually gotten worse?

It often tends to be harder to be one of the few girls of color than one of the few boys. At least that’s been my experience.

Well, we love you, Bix.

Except for that one day everyone thought I was racist.

Everyone gets to be Racist for a Day on MNSpeak, girl.

So a white student was attacked for a paper he wrote and posted on a blog. I am assuming it was the Somali children that attracted him based upon his opinion or his perception of privilege given to the Somali students. I guess they have not learned about freedom of speech and tolerance for other points of view. I also think that the posting should be included in any discussion of this issue but in this politically correct world we live in that side of the story will not be given. By censoring speech and attacking an individual for their speech the outcome will only bring more disdain and hatred. One needs to remember that in small towns many of the people are not that interested in a politically correct agenda. This does not excuse racists actions. Many of the smaller towns in the out state can not financially handle the consumption of social services and the strain on school budgets that come with sustaining a refugee population. Furthermore the problems associated with a refugee population are also ignored and not addressed. When does both sides of the story get aired.

What side, exactly, is not getting aired, swannie?

Swandog, why the hatred toward Somalis? Maybe you should stop posting until you can stop being xenophobic. It would make my day a lot better to not read your racist crap.

Yes, small towns are not interested in the coloreds, people. Get with the program!

Also, swandog, did you even see the kid’s blog piece? I didn’t but I’m wondering what you’re basing what ever the hell you’re talking about on.

@bob, – No one gives a reason as to what provoked the incident. What exactly was said that a group of Somalis attacked the individual that wrote a blog piece. Is their truth to what that person said? or was the individual looking for trouble? That side of the story was not show. It is implied by the placement on this site and to some degree in the article that the people from Owatona are racists. My take on it is that the white kid was attacked by the Somalians, am I wrong. Is that OK?

The reactions of Bixby and KC are typical reactions here and within the politically correct liberal crowd. The immediately defend the wrong actions of a group of people and excuse their behavior based on the color of their skin. Anyone that points out the misbehavior of a said minority group is automatically a person that hates or is a racists. Their accusations are a form of Politically correct speech censorship. Neither is able to look at the facts without assuming that every person who questions a groups actions is a racists.

Specifically Bix. that is my question where is the blog, how did that impact the actions of a given group and what was the other groups take on the situation.

Re: Small towns absorbing refugees.

Uh, gosh. If a place like Owatonna can’t absorb a few dozen new refugees as students, how the heck will they absorb the few dozen local kids who are born every year and wind up in the school system by age 6?

Wow, you clearly have wrongly pegged me as the PC one. I’m the black one. Who has experienced racism in small-town Minnesota. While traveling with rich ass white classmates. More than once.

But let me tell you a secret, if a bunch of minorities moved into small town Minnesota and they weren’t refugees, there might be a problem as well. Because, let’s not be PC and sugarcoat shit, “politically correct agenda” is code for “not allowing me to say the offensive and possibly harmful things that I am really thinking” and, let’s be honest, people are still racist. I think we’ve learned that.

Bix I am aware that you are black and am sorry you where treated poorly.

However, you assume many things in your statement. You also make it perfectly clear that others are not allowed to have any kind of opinion other than the one you prescribe. Some people are racists some are not. Some are insensitive some are not. What does that have to do with the question I purposed. You don’t like the question fine but it is based on the facts of the article (what was bloged about). I would like to let you know that if I have something to say I will say it, It will not be in “code”. I do not care what color someone is but will always point out the hypocrisy and double standard that is present when it comes to excusing the behavior of one group based on the fact that they are a minority.

Kinda funny. The only people who ever use phrases like “politically correct” and “war on Christmas” are arch-conservatives who have their heads up where the sun don’t shine. Otherwise, I hear people wishing each other “Merry Christmas” and who recognize that not everything can be generalized by using racial or cultural stereotypes.

The[y] immediately defend the wrong actions of a group of people and excuse their behavior based on the color of their skin.

I don’t see that, swandog. I think the thread yesterday about the “happy slapping” video proves that. I know I won’t excuse someone’s behavior based on the color of their skin; you, included.

noodle, basically what I was going to say. I think the Somalis in the happy slapping video deserve to go to jail and suck as people, but I think that because of their actions, not their race/ethnicity.

On the other hand Swandog, you see Somalis committing crimes and immediately start talking about welfare and what you believe is a plague on the American financial/moral system. That’s what racism is. You cannot separate someone’s actions from their skin color.

I don’t think anyone ever should okay someone’s behavior based solely on their skin color but all it takes is two conflicting opinions to start something bigger. If the kid who wrote the blog piece dropped some anti-Somali comments in it then those Somali kids in Owatonna deserved to be pissed off but resorting to violence and the police getting involved proves that there is a helluva lot more racial tension in the ‘burbs and outstate than we’d like to believe. I grew up in outstate Minnesota and I hear those racist comments from those in my old hometown all too often. Sure, there are bad apples in every bunch but that does not make an entire race worthy of being hated. Does every African-American hate every caucasian because the KKK is a solely caucasian hate group?

First off, Swandog, you are completely free to have an opinion different from what I prescribe. I don’t know where you got that one. Secondly, I was not excusing what they were doing based on race, I was pointing out that YOU were reading into this as an issue based on social services and I was suggesting that there would likely be this racial tension regardless of the origin of these people, just fact on the fact that they are people of color. Thirdly, where did I excuse the behavior of one group? Fourth, speaking of stereotyping and sweeping judgments maybe you shouldn’t label this overreacting PC bullshit to something that only liberals do. Because I’m pretty sure KC, mnblrmkr and sandburg witnessed a room full of conservatives get pissy when I was un-pc.

I hate Sornie, also.

But this is strictly twitter related.

And because he’s probably in the KKK.

Not really.

But probably.

Also, Swandog, the blog post was probably taken down because tensions are high enough as it is. It’s a school, they don’t have full first amendment protections.

Bix point taken. I am not a far right conservative and I know from experience that conservatives, especially the Jesus crew, are a bit sensitive and play their own games with language. I certainly do not want to offend you based on race or your sex, I will probably offend you anyway, but I hope not based on those two factors. Your point is a good one.

KC – The Somalians were brought here by the churches. What bothers me about that is that they bring people here and do not pay the full cost of their consumption of social services. They then act like they are saving the world but are using other peoples money to do so. I think that is bullshit and a cop out. I don’t car if the group is white or black I don’t want to pay for their social services. I do not think that all Somalians are evil or bad people, I do think that their is a problem within their community. Why does that make me a racists. Do you deny that their is problems within their community? Pretending that their is not problems will not change facts or hearts and minds. I think everyone is created equal and should be free to succeed or fail on their own. But I owe them nothing.

So the right winger is bashing the churches and the socialist is taking up the flag of religion? That doesn’t make asgkl;

@swandog: An immigrant or refugee sponsor must provide financial guarantees to the Federal government for, at minimum, the first two years of residency. There might be some Federal monies used to resettle political refugees but, for the most part, the actual money spent to support the Hmongs, Tibetans, Somalis, etc. when they first arrived in the US came from individual, religious or corporate pockets.

My Singaporean ex-brother-in-law was interested in immigrating the US several years ago. His interest declined greatly when he found out his sister and I would have to provide a $35,000 guarantee to the US government for the express purpose of preventing him from winding up on welfare during his probationary period. The two-year guarantee figures someone will have found a job by the time they are cleared for a green card.

I see immigrants and refugees being much more industrious than I do some our own citizens who are on the dole.

“The Somalians were brought here by the churches.”
Not true. I’ve never known a Somali that was sponsored by a church. Try again.

Per this link
http://www.migrationinformation.org/Feature/display.cfm?ID=229
you will see that the United States government chooses which refugees will come to this country and from and to where. They partner with local organizations, such as churches, to provide for an easier transition, but the government makes all the decisions.

“I think that is bullshit and a cop out. I don’t car if the group is white or black I don’t want to pay for their social services.”
And I don’t want to pay for your freeways, but I do.

The problem, I’ll state again, is that you take every chance you have to bash Somalis. Kids do shitty things= Somalis using too many social services and have problems in their community. You clearly have something against Somalis and when I read your collective statements about them it screams Xenophobia and Racism.

noodleman, you are correct for immigrants, but not refugees. they do not need a sponsor.

Since my family moved to Owatonna in ‘84 as pretty much the only black people the city had ever seen… I’d say they are mostly a tolerant bunch, although some people were racist assholes and got away with it. It was definitely easier to be gay than black.

Re: Churches and Somalis

KC, I think on this point you and Swandog are pretty much on the same page. Obviously, the government has final say over where people land if they are granted asylum here but the fact of the matter is that the service agencies do factor into where they ultimately go and why there are high concentrations of any particular group that ends up immigrating to random places like Minneapolis or Portland, ME. They provide the support services and ultimately that’s a nod to the government saying, “okay, this is fine to send people here because they’ve got some sort of system in place.”

… by that I mean you could be a racist as a cover for being gay.

I love the ladies.

“…and the socialist is taking up the flag of religion?”

What the hell does socialism have to do with a persons religiosity? You can be either, both, or neither.

“I see immigrants and refugees being much more industrious than I do some our own citizens who are on the dole.”

Have anyone in particular in mind?

Nah. Just the usual stereotype of people sucking off the taxpayers’ teat.

mnblrmkr- I think kwatt must know his Marxist theory very well. Marx believed that religion and communism/socialism were not compatible. That’s why Russia and Cuba have worked against religion. Of course modern communists/socialists often continue to believe this. Luckily, we’ve got good people like the Catholics with their liberation theology that have taken communism/socialism into their own theology and have allowed for the political theory to include room for religion more and more often.

@kc!: Marx was more sympathetic of religion’s purpose than he was completely dismissive. A more complete quotation of his famous phrase would include:

Religious distress is at the same time the expression of real distress and the protest against real distress. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people.

At least Marx didn’t say what Ventura had to say about religion … that organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people.

Wait, it’s not a sham?

Depends on who’s doin’ the preachin’, I suppose.

Re: Churches and Somalis

I blame those damn Irish for dragging my ass here. I would incite a riot of my peeps, but since there’s approximately 10 of us in this state I don’t think we’ll cause much damage. Besides, there’s more likely to be a spontaneous rugby match rather than a riot.

Here’s another winner, Rat. Guess it takes all kinds to commit fraud, swandog. Disability funding comes out of your paycheck, too. I think his name looks a little WASPy to me, too, swandog; doesn’t look Somali.

Now you’re just picking on white people. We steal from disability. Wear baseball caps when we travel overseas. What else?

Noodleman – I have a solution, cut the program then no one can scam dah. I am open to trimming all welfare programs noodleman. You need to get off of your misinformed high horse.

KC- They partner with local organizations, such as churches, to provide for an easier transition, but the government makes all the decisions.

Ah that is my point thank you for the assistance. One follows the other. The government partners with the churches, the churches create the means of delivering the service. The government does not seek out church communities that are unwilling to bring a give group in. It is the churches that are the catalyst for bringing in refugee populations and showing them to the door of the welfare office. It is “good works” on someone elses dime. That is my point and I am against this process. I would be against it if it were Irish immigrants unable to pay their own way in our society. We can not be the home of every sad story in the world and it should be provided with some level of oversight and openness to allow democracy to play a role in who and how much is spent on a given refugee population. It is easy to be giving to other people with other peoples money, that is not charity that is theft.

@Rat: Well, you asked who I had in mind. At least I’m providing links to things that actually happen; not just uncited innuendo. I could’ve also posted a picture of Octomom as someone who thought to abuse the benefits system. Would that make you happy? But I’m not sure what connection overseas-traveling, baseball cap-wearing American tourists have with frauds and cheats.

@swandog: How exactly am I misinformed? You provide only unsubstantiated bull opinion. Where is your proof Somalis are more likely to commit welfare system fraud and thievery? Maybe you can find out if the percentage of Somalis collecting welfare benefits is higher than the rest of the non-Somali population?

“It is the churches that are the catalyst for bringing in refugee populations and showing them to the door of the welfare office.”

Uhm, no it’s not. refugee/asylum is a legal status that has nothing to do with the churches.

It’s pretty clear to me that swandog is full of s%*t when he/she claims to support welfare etc. for those that “really” need it. Because refugee/asylum cases are those that would fall into that category. They’re people that have been forced out of their homes/countries with little/none of their possessions in the face of death/great physical harm. If they aren’t worthy of a helping hand in a foreign society, no one is.

Noodleman – I do NOT think that Somalians commit more welfare fraud than other groups of people. People are people they will always maximize a given benefit regardless of race.

Mnblrmker – So your premise is that the churches have nothing to do with importing refugee populations into the state. We have limited resources to work with at every level of government. I am for helping those in the state if they really need it but to continue to import every problem around the globe to Minnesota is unreasonable. In the last twenty years we have brought into this state Hmong, Liberians and Somalians. Are you telling me that they came here for the weather or did they come for our generous welfare benefits. I am also stating that it IS the church communities that assist and encourage those with “refugee/asylum legal status” to settle in Minnesota. Not everyone feels that this is affordable or a desirable thing to do. Smaller communities in the out-state can not afford to support a given refugee population. The strain on decreasing school budgets, police services ect ect. means that those that currently living in an out-state community are forced to participate in some churches and/or governments idea of what is a “good thing to do”. It is a zero sum game when it comes to county, local and national budgets. The pie is only so large. Why should they be forced to give. We have enough social problems to solve with our current population without importing more people into the state that need even more services. Let the churches through charities pay for it. To continue to drain local and state budgets is unsustainable and unrealistic. I know I come across as harsh but life is harsh, cruel and unkind. We only have so much to go around and many people are just as selfish as myself and do not want to contribute to the global social good. If churches want to do it fine but they should pay not the taxpayer.

http://www.mnchurches.org/programs/directservices/refugeservices.html

Our Partnerships: Refugee Services became a program of the Minnesota Council of Churches in 1984, and is a part of the network for two national resettlement agencies, Church World Service and Episcopal Migration Ministries. Refugee Services is suppported thorugh contracts and grants from local, state and federal funders. The program provides a range of services to refugees and asylees in Minnesota.

I thing they do good works with the taxpayers money. Are their intentions good of course is it fair to the taxpayers of Minnesota I argue no.

“So your premise is that the churches have nothing to do with importing refugee populations into the state.”

No ,they are involved, but the refugees would be coming whether the churches were involved or not.

The churches don’t determine refugee/asylum status. That is done by the UN and national governments. In the US, approx. 80,000 (2001) refugees are admitted each year, a quota set BY LAW.

It just happens that, in the US, we’ve decided to contract out the resettlement tasks to the states and NGOs, including church connected groups.

“In the last twenty years we have brought into this state Hmong, Liberians and Somalians. Are you telling me that they came here for the weather or did they come for our generous welfare benefits.”

Neither. The Hmong fought part of our war in Vietnam/Laos. They were our alies. When we left, their society faced reprisal from the Laotian Government. We have a moral obligation to help them. We have a similar moral obligation to help those Iraqi refugees that have assisted us in that war.

The Somali and Liberians left because their countries were wracked by civil war/anarchy. Their status was largely determined by the UNHCR, and the US under various international treaties, accepts a certain number of them.

Just did a quick search, and it appears that for 2009, the refugee quota was set at 80,000 again. Usually, fewer refugees are actually admitted than authorized.

Here’s a short summary of the refugee resettlement process in the US:

http://www.refugees.org/article.aspx?id=1082&subm=40&ssm=47&area=About%20Refugees#resettlement

Note that before a refugee is admitted, the US Governemt rev=ceives a written assurance from one of the 10 resettlement organization that they will provide basic services for the refugee during the process.

Assurance Process
The American resettlement organization must “assure” the Department of State that it is prepared to receive each matched refugee. This “assurance” is a written guarantee that various basic services will be provided to the refugee and any accompanying family members in the initial resettlement phase.

Define for me:
1- what they mean by basic service. 2- does that exclude state and local governmental services (I do not think it does).3- it is only for the “initial resettlement phase (how long is that and then who pays. Do we deport them if things don’t go as planned.

the following is the next paragraph:

At this time the resettlement organization determines where in the US the refugee will be resettled. The availability of housing, employment, needed services, readiness of host community and a variety of other factors determine exact placement. However, if a refugee has a relative in the US, every effort is made to resettle the refugee near that relative.

“They determine where in the us the refugee will resettle:

well that proves my point. How many refugees are located in low welfare states. It is the churches directing them to a given location and it is based I argue on the infrastructure of welfare not if the community wants them. Let’s have a vote and find out.

The readiness of host community: Let’s ask the residents of Owatona their “readiness”

“variety of other factors determine exact placement” What does that mean?

“However, if a refugee has a relative in the US, every effort is made to resettle the refugee near that relative.”

This is the key once established the “host community” has no choice but to accept the financial burden regardless of budgetary constraints. The population at that point is forced on the broader community and they get to cut the check.

It is not a popular stand I take but the church community is forcing people to support their agenda and I do not think that it is right. They should pay the full amount up to the point that the refugee is fully implied. If the refugee commits a crime the church pays for the prison time, medical expense, schooling ect ect. We then would see how generous they really are.

Well, gosh, swandog. Let’s make churches responsible for the behavior of all their congregations. But then who would be financially responsible for crimes committed by atheists?

If the Right wasn’t so eager to spend money on weapons and war, maybe our society could better afford basic needs like food, shelter and health care.

Fuck weapons of war also noodleman I don’t want to pay for that either. Can you say red hearing. Pull out of every base around the globe is my hope but that is not the point.

It is the point when defense contractors also suck off the public teat. Corporate welfare. Puts dollars in Dick Cheney’s pockets.

The only thing worse than this kind of welfare it the kind Noodleman points out. All of it needs to end or we will not exists economically in the future. Their is a connection to what we spend, the debt we have sold to china, and our ability to function as an economy. We are on the brink of catastrophe and the piggies want to eat as much from the public through before the game is over. Fatten up pigs tomorrow you go to the slaughter. You will gut the middle class economically if our society does not change. We will all be refugees if we keep up bleeding heart spending and corporate welfare spending, it is a mind set in this country that needs to stop.

I hate Canadian refugees. They’re always trying to seek asylum here because they’re victims of a nation with hearts that bleed too much. As opposed to the other kind of hearts, which don’t have liquid and cannot bleed. Not even oil. Real Amurkin Hearts™ (of the Future).