Secrets of the City

I believe they are refering to the nation’s Muslim citizens as being the “public” or group — Ellison represents in Congress, kurtis.

I agree, it’s a bad headline.

It is also inacurate — Ellison has said from the start that his district and Minnesota is his constituency, not all Muslim Americans.

Interestingly, when I recently mentioned to my mother that both Minneapolis and Indianapolis had elected Muslim congressmen, she had no idea Rep. André Carson was a follower of Islam.

I wonder if either men could win if they changed their names to a more “foreign-sounding” name.

Of course, both Minnesota (no surprise) and Indiana (huge upset) elected a guy named Barack Hussein Obama, so maybe times have changed…

Wait, his middle name is Hussein? That changes everything! Why did nobody tell me???

Not only that, kurtis, but his mother birthed him in Kenya so he’s not even American!!!111! 733t

(LOL at all the idiots who can’t/won’t accept proof of Obama’s Hawai’ian birth.)

Btw, if someone has to be a natural-born citizen in order to qualify for the Presidency, what happens to someone who was born Ceasarean?

They are called “Birthers,” I hear…

I think the stupidest part of the Obama isn’t a natural born citizen is that it is a known fact that John McCain was born in Panama.

but you know…

Advice from Blois Olson on who will win the 6th (and the other House districts): Follow the money.

Oh, and I love this:
My senators: A jew and a woman
My rep: a black muslim
My state senator: a woman
My state rep: a black man
My city councilmember: black man
My county Commissioner: woman
My president: black man

too bad my governor, VP and mayor are all white men. But I do believe I may have the most diverse representatives anywhere in the US, or am in running for it.

So where are the gays?

well, McCain was born in military hospital on a US base. That’s generally been considered US soil. It was also explicitly clarified by US statute.

The problem for Obama birthers is, it’s irrelevant WHERE he was born. His mother was a life long US citizen. That in and of itself makes him a natural born US citizen (something else that has also been explicitly clarified by statute for years). Even if Obama carried dual citizenship, that would be irrelevant as well.

KC, re: “too bad my governor, VP and mayor are all white men.”

are you suggesting that white males should no longer be part of our representation?

From Wikipedia: Presidential candidates whose eligibility was questioned.

Being that the Canal Zone was not an incorporated US territory (e.g., Guam), the Birthers should also have questioned McCain’s “natural born” status.

There’s no question McCain is a US citizen; just maybe not “natural born.” (Obama’s Hawai’ian birth certificate establishes both his citizenship and his natural-born status.) Persons born on US military bases or within US embassies overseas might also not be considered “natural born,” either, although that would preclude them from being a US citizen.

c/would NOT preclude them from being a US citizen

Military bases and emabassies are considered U.S. soil. You are actually subject to U.S. law, and not the local law, when you are there.

/has lived on both.

The “Birther” phenom isn’t about the law, or the facts.

It’s a conspiracy cult born from ignorance, fear, and no small measure of bigotry.

The US statute that would qualify McCain as a natural born US citizen was not passsed until after his birth so it has never been tested in court if the ruling was retroactive.

Military bases and emabassies are considered U.S. soil. You are actually subject to U.S. law, and not the local law, when you are there.

But they are not incorporated US territories, which is the defining restriction.

In addition, the US State Department has even gone so far as to say  “[d]espite widespread popular belief, U.S. military installations abroad and U.S. diplomatic or consular facilities are not part of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A child born on the premises of such a facility is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth.”

McCain is a US citizen because his parents were both US citizens. He is not a citizen because he was born on a military base. McCain, technically, is not a natural-born US citizen.

So I, too, was wrong about embassies and military bases. Neither are US territories even if the popular belief is that the grounds are diplomatically considered “American.”

He is not a citizen because he was born on a military base. McCain, technically, is not a natural-born US citizen.

 As he is not President, an interesting but moot point.

I wonder if the Birthers would have questioned McCain’s birth more if his middle name was Hussein, and his skin was a few tones darker….

I often find myself wondering if “Obama isn’t an American” is some bizarre, socially acceptable translation of “No black person is a president of mine.” So much of the rhetoric regarding Obama made him out to be a suspicious outsider. “We don’t know him.” “He’s not like us.” “Do we even know if he’s not a Muslim?”

It just ends up sounding like code for “not white” to me when some people say it.

It’s ironic, though, that the son or daughter born of an illegal immigrant on US soil would legally be a natural-born US citizen. That’s already been decided by the courts some time ago.

It’s a conspiracy cult born from ignorance, fear, and no small measure of bigotry.

Double duh. Poor losers, just like the PUMAs.

“Do we even know if he’s not a Muslim?”

I would ask these people: “Of what importance is religion when establishing the answer to citizenship?”

None.

It made me think back to that jaw-dropping CNN interview Glenn Beck did with Ellison, when Beck said this to Ellison’s face:

 ”…I have been nervous about this interview with you, because what I feel like saying is, “Sir, prove to me that you are not working with our enemies.”

I thought the Congressman showed great restraint for not taking a poke at Beck then and there.

are you suggesting that white males should no longer be part of our representation?

No, I like white men. I married to one. And they should be in office in equal proportion to their numbers as American Citizens. 

But, it just would have been fun if I had no white men representing me. I like the idea of turning the tables on what I grew up with- that white, straight men rule politics.

And Bob, I had a gay state rep, but I moved. I voted against my current black male state rep for a muslim, woman, gay one, but she lost.

Sir, prove to me that you are not working with our enemies.”

i believe that was in response to ellison’s association with CAIR, not simply that he’s muslim.  i think.

I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt on that, cubbie, but not Beck. He has proven himself the fool too many times.

Like this time.

That’s a pretty big assumption that CAIR is one of our “enemies.”

They point out CAIR’s association with terrorist groups, but that guilt-by-association knife cuts both ways, it seems to me. A lot of Irish-American organizations has loose affiliations to the IRA, and a lot of Jewish-American organizations had links to Kach and Kahane Chai.

The Ellison/Beck exchange

“No, I like white men. I married to one.”

But it’s just “too bad my governor, VP and mayor are all white men.”

Which race/ethnicity/gender would make it better?

rat, as I stated above “But, it just would have been fun if I had no white men representing me. I like the idea of turning the tables on what I grew up with- that white, straight men rule politics.”

But, since you asked, I’d like to see another non-Christian. I think an Asian would fit in nicely also. And of course a Latino and a Somali would be good too. It would be nice if the people who lived in my district were represented in the people who represent us.

I won’t settle for anything less than a gay Hmong in a wheelchair.

are you suggesting that white males should no longer be part of our representation?

Well, not to your face…

I mean, um…

A human/betazoid hybrid like Counselor Dianna Troi from Star Trek; The Next Generation would bring the empathy that’s become an important qualification.

Thank you Kurtis and Bixby!

This thread is young but I can already tell it needs a wise Latina woman with the richness of her experiences would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male who hasn’t lived that life.

I mean, that Walker Art thread needed her more but whatever, her the richness of her experiences can be appreciated in all kinds of threads.

* delete that “her” before “the” in the second paragraph.

after reading the ellison/beck echange i have no idea what beck was getting at. maybe there was more to it than that.

Being born in a US Protectorate/Territory doesn’t automatically make you a US citizen though.

We can be drafted, but we can’t vote. wtf?

… can be appreciated in all kinds of threads

Threads like these?

Cubbie, don’t feel bad, NO ONE is able to get any idea of what Beck is ever getting at.

Being born in a US Protectorate/Territory doesn’t automatically make you a US citizen though.

[From Wikipedia:] [C]urrent U.S. law defines numerous other categories of individuals born abroad, as well as people born in most U.S. territories and possessions, as being “nationals and citizens of the United States at birth.”

If you are born on Guam, you are a US citizen. If you are born in Puerto Rico, you are a US citizen. If you had been born on American Samoa, you were born a US citizen.

1. OMFG, Cat isn’t a Real Amurkin™ Why are you coming into our threads, stealing commenting space away from good, hard-commenting Real Amurkins™? What American websites clearly needs is tall firewall running the length of the entire internet. Obviously, this would be built by outsourcing the task to India.

2. @Noodles I’m torn because that photo is racist in that it plays upon the stereotype of the black man as a pimp but at the same time those threads are, in fact, rich. Like they were touched by a wise Latina SCOTUS justice.

Actually, Guam and Puerto Rico are, and I think the US Virgin Islands. American Samoans are nationals.

I think if one of your parents is a US citizen and you’re born in A. Samoa, you are a citizen, otherwise not.

Neither of my parents were US citizens.

@Cat: Anyone in the US with a green card, regardless of citizenship, is also eligible for the draft. My English brother-in-law got a letter from Uncle Sam in 1972. Luckily, Uncle Sam really didn’t need him.

There are a number of non-US citizens serving in the US armed forces in Iraq and Afghanistan. Service during war time, and an honorable discharge, automatically qualifies the enlistee for expedited US citizenship.

Actually Noodleman:

From the State Department

Very few persons fall within this category since, as defined by the INA, all U.S. citizens are U.S. nationals but only a relatively small number of persons acquire U.S. nationality without becoming U.S. citizens. Thus, Section 101(a)(22) INA states that all U.S. citizens are also nationals of the U.S. However, Section 308 INA confers U.S. nationality but not U.S. citizenship, on persons born in or having ties with “an outlying possession of the United States.” The outlying possessions are defined in Section 101(A)(29) INA as American Samoa and Swains Island.

In conclusion, continue building the firewall!

What the fig is the difference between a “national” and a “citizen?” Except for bureaucratic purposes.

But that still means a Guamanian or a Puerto Rican are US citizens because they are recognized territories of the US. (Commonwealth status, in the case of PR.)

I’m torn because that photo is racist in that it plays upon the stereotype of the black man as a pimp but at the same time those threads are, in fact, rich. Like they were touched by a wise Latina SCOTUS justice.

And the good taste of a Wise Latina would put some good Port or brandy in that glass. Smooooooth.

We can’t vote, basically.

And we have to take that damn “I want to be a good US citizen” test.

But, just sos Bixby can sleep at night, with her damn homicidal cat, I took the Damn Test and received my nice shiny US citizen certificate. Yay!

Take down the freakin’ firewall, Bix.

No way, Cat. Until you prove EVERY Samoan has taken the test, I cannot take down the firewall. It’s a national security issue.

I’ve consulted with several authorities on this topic. Including A Wise Latina (Now With Rich Life Experience!™) Nope. Sorry. But, as long as they go through legal channels, they can visit Real Amurkin™ websites under a H-1 Commenter’s Visa (given only to highly skilled foreign commenters).

What if they overstay their visa?

That’s a good question. I don’t know. I know we shouldn’t have commenting amnesty, where all the illegal commenters would be allowed to officially register their user names and set up profiles with pictures and what not. That just rewards bad internet behavior. Also, if you’re going to comment on Real Amurkin™ sites, than you better speak English AND be able to be understood. This means no typing in all caps! Also, no “anchor sites”. Getting on our sites illegally and then setting up a blog, which ends up being Amurkin enough that it’s allowed to stay on our side of the firewall. I plan on setting up a volunteer organization that stays up all night drinking Mountain Dew and monitoring network traffic in order to secure our internet. Especially since Google won’t do it.