Secrets of the City

Well, considering leaving your car idling is a good way to get it stolen (not to mention all the news stories about people getting their cars stolen this way), I’m not sure if a ticket is going to disuade people from doing it.

Leave me and my gas alone.

“Slippery slope” is generally used pejoratively to show the falaciousness of an argument.

I live by a popular blue-collar breakfast place that opens at five, and lots of trucks and service vehicles are left idling just outside my windows while the drivers dine inside. They are noisy vehicles, waking me up (and keeping me up) at an ungodly hour, thus making me an enthusiastic supporter of both the law and the crackdown.

It is against the law to have your car idle without being in it for even 1 second. The new law is that you cannot idle more than 3 minutes while in your car.

I’m all for it in theory, not practice. Yesterday cjc ran into Rainbow and it took him 4 minutes to get out. I was freezing so I had him leave the car on. Technically, we broke the law, but it was cold, so I don’t know if I care.

Kurtis, I don’t know if the law applies to service vehicles. I’m 99% sure it either doesn’t apply to MetroTransit buses or the MT policy is to break the law. It may not apply to trucks that must be kept on for either heating or cooling of contents.

The new law is that you cannot idle more than 3 minutes while in your car.

That’s stupid. I should be able to sit in my car overnight with the engine running if I want to. Leaving a running vehicle unattended is different, as this creates a public safety issue. But if I’m sitting in my car, waiting for something? There should be no limit. Is there a clause for location of foffense?

Seriously, what if you were sitting in your driveway? Should they be able to come on your property and tell you that you can’t be sitting in your running car on your property? Minneapolis doesn’t own the f***ing air.

Baker, yes they can and they should. You are polluting the air. The air doesn’t remain over your home. You also cannot dispose of waste oil in your lawn. It is the same principle.

And I looked up the regulations:
Busses can idle for 15 minutes.

Service vehicles can idle as long as it is needed for heating or cooling or mechnaical need, but not just to keep the seating area warm, unless someone is sleeping there.

Minneapolis city workers can idle all they want if they have permission from their supervisor.

We can all idle 15 minutes if the temp is below 0 or above 90.

If we put the economy ahead of our health and the environment, this is clearly a bad law.

I’m impressed by the homework Kassie’s done on this! We know she’s not ‘idling’ this morning.

There is also a statewide law that restricts idling by school buses. Unlike the the Minneapolis ordiance, there are no penalties or fines for violations.

So, let me get this straight. I carpool. If either me or my carpooling partner are late, we have to shut off our car because we’re hurting the environment. Interesting…

That’s correct, DouglasG.

Here’s an interesting question. What if the car is a Prius? It may well be in “electric” mode and not creating emissions at all. Would the fact the the vehicle is “on” make it technically in violation of the ordinance?

I would think not, because it would not be idling.

“You also cannot dispose of waste oil in your lawn. It is the same principle.”

But I don’t think that’s a useful comparison. Car exhaust must disperse in ways less harmful than oil seeping into the ground.

“Car exhaust must disperse in ways less harmful than oil seeping into the ground.”

You know those air quality alerts we now hear in the summer sometimes? It’s because of smog, and smog is mostly due to car exhaust. Obviously idling is a small part of that, but car exhaust doesn’t disperse as harmlessly as we’d like to pretend.

“Car exhaust must disperse in ways less harmful than oil seeping into the ground.”

Not always, Rat. Some of the main factor in vehicle emissions and air pollution are weather and geography.

Vehicle exhaust will be a greater problem under certain conditions (wind, high or low pressure, air temperature, etc.) than others. The source of the pollution(the tailpipes of our vehicles) is fairly constant, what changes are the weather conditions. That’s why some days are “air alert days” and others are not.

Also, if we were right next to a mountain range, as Knoxville, TN is, our pollution would have nowhere to go and be much worse than it is here.

I ssupect the downtown buildings create microclimates that effect air pollution from vehicles as well, but haven’t read much on this.

PS: Is the “rich text editor” down? I can’t use it to link…

Moreso, it is a great tool for crime prevention. When I called 911 earlier this year on the three men sitting in a car outside my house with white bandanas over their faces (I’m pretty sure they were about to rob the store across the street) they were breaking a law- idling- not just being suspicious. Kind of a nice tool for the police to use with suspicious behavior.

The two major types of fuels/engines we use cause different pollution problems.

With gasoline engines, the main problem is ozone, which is one of the main components of the smog kurtis mentioned. Ozone is also a lung irritant, and high smog levels can cause increased heart attacks as well as breathing issues.

With diesel engines, it’s particulates (fine soot). This is really nasty stuff to get in your lungs — it digs in deep to your lung tissues.

Both E85 and biodiesel significanly reduce these types of pollutants, which is why I harp on the stuff all the time.

I wonder if this applies to police cars? School buses?

Because not only do I see the two idling all the time, but often the vehicle is sitting unattended.

Police Cars- city employees can idle as long as they want with supervisor permission.

School buses- same as MT buses I assume. they can idle 15 minutes for passenger comfort.

Exemptions:

(3) A police, fire, ambulance, public safety, military, other emergency or law enforcement vehicle, or any vehicle being used in an emergency capacity, idles while in an emergency or training mode and not for the convenience of the vehicle operator.

(1) A police, fire, ambulance, public safety, public utility, military, other emergency or law enforcement or other City vehicle idles for the purpose of running lights, maintaining circulation of water in tanks, or to maintain accessories necessary to accomplish its mission or while engaged in emergency or enforcement activities.

“What a deal. You can save money, save lungs, save the planet, and all you have to do is turn off your car,” said Councilmember Sandy Colvin Roy when the ordinance was passed this summer.”

What a deal? About showing us some real numbers instead of passing a law so you can feel better? Was there an epidemic of people keeping their cars idling? Was there roving idling gangs? The law is silly and so is this Councilmember.

Where is the law to limit pollution caused by smugness?

The school buses would also be subject to the state law I mentioned upthread.

In addition to using biodiesel, school buses can add special equipment to make the exhaust significantly cleaner. I did a story with former WCCO-teevee reporter Terri Gruca on that that (sorry, no link).

“Where is the law to limit pollution caused by smugness?”

If there were such a law, yoshi, this site would have been shut down years ago…

@justpbob

Something funky is definitely up with the rich text editor. It seems to work fine in Safari 3.2 and Firefox 3.0, but someone pointed out there were issues in a comment last week–I’ll try track this down later today.

I see idling cars all the time. Go to the Kmart parking lot on Lake to see 10 cars at a time idling. In front of schools at the end of the day is another place with lots of idling cars.

I don’t see what the big deal is. Turn off you car and sit in it. You can still listen to the radio.

The trouble comes when it is very cold or very hot. 0 and 90 seem like extreme temps as cut offs especially since the heat index and wind chill are not considered. I don’t know that I would turn off my car on an 85 and humid day or a 5 degree and windy day if I knew it would be only 5 minutes.

Presumably your ‘idling session’ resets when the car is moved? Idle for 3 minutes, drive forward 4 inches, then you have another 3 minutes.

I love that a city supervisor is the arbitrator of appropriateness in this..

What if someone is in between houses, and is living in their car? If this car does not have a ’sleeper berth compartment’, are they breaking the law be keeping themselves from freezing to death?

I don’t know that I would turn off my car on an 85 and humid day or a 5 degree and windy day if I knew it would be only 5 minutes.

So you support the law, but are ok breaking it?

Wind chill isn’t a factor when you’re inside your car. Unless your window is broken or something…

You can only idle 3 minutes every 60 minutes, so you can’t just move.

I already said I broke the law yesterday. Twice actually. But I support the law and would take my consequences. It was cold yesterday and I didn’t want to wait in the cold or go into Rainbow/Kmart. It is like the speed limit. I support it, but I break it occassionally. I think the temp limits on it are too extreme.

There is also a health and safety exemption in the law, which I assume a homeless person could invoke.

“Wind chill isn’t a factor when you’re inside your car.”

I thought things got colder faster when the wind was blowing? So if the wind was blowing on my car it would cool down faster? I am probably very wrong on this one, but isn’t it why we blow on hot food to cool it down?

Does anyone ever experience poor vehicle performance is a really cold car?
Brakes not responding, streering not working very well, etc?

Were is Paul Douglas when we need him to explain wind chill?

My 2001 VW Golf gets a little sluggish like that when temps drop below 0, baker. Plus, it has an annoying loud buzzer that tells me the engine is cold when I start it.

Every. Damn. Time.

Bob to VW engineers: “Bite me.”

You can only idle 3 minutes every 60 minutes, so you can’t just move.

I’d love for the cop to sit there watching me for 60 minutes to see if I broke the law. This law is foolish; it was a waste of time to write it, it is going to be damn near impossible to enforce it effectively. Not only that, but it just sucks. It was probably born of fuzzy precedent, and will undoubtedly set more.

I suspect, in most cases, they would only have to watch someone for three minutes and one second.

They may be using Preditor drones to watch your car, baker.

On a related nore, California is considering new regulations to reduce desiel emissions.

nore? Note!

I drive a pretty old car, but I still don’t need to idle it unless it’s below zero. Then I can’t even move the stick into reverse until it runs a couple of minutes.

But I’m on board with reduction of idling overall, when doable. I drive with my air vents closed most of the time because that is some toxic shit, especially diesel exhaust. I’ve had to chase off various bus drivers idling outside my house, because the exhaust seeps in through the windows and is just plain nasty. As well as gratuitously polluting.

When I first heard about this law, my understanding was that it had NOTHING to do with conservation or air pollution. It was aimed at semi and delivery truck drivers who would leave noisy vehicles idling for long periods of time at night or early in the morning, and wake up people who lived nearby. I have to say, if I was woken up at 5 am several times a week by engine noise, I’d be pissed and demanding that the city pass an ordinance to ban idling, too.

The ordinance was specificly aimed at air pollution and fuel conservation, Amanada, but the noise factor may have considered as well.

The school buses I often see idling are unoccupied as the drivers take a lunch break on the parkway near my house.

Re:Police car exceptions “or to maintain accessories necessary to accomplish its mission or while engaged in emergency or enforcement activities.
”

I am guessing Super America coffee and gossiping must qualify under this part of the exception because I see the police doing it every morning with their cars running.

“So if the wind was blowing on my car it would cool down faster?”

I suppose you’re right. The car would cool down faster because the wind is pushing cold air into the cab through gaps and such, but it wouldn’t cool it to a temperature lower than the actual air temperature. So if it was 10F with a -5F windchill, your car would still only get down to 10F. I think.

The drivers at the school near ALAMN building idle near our office (which used to gas us out of the basement before we got new windows. Some even went into our parking lot for a smoke break.

Talk about moxie! Actually, they had never looked up to see the big sign on the building. The few that used to do this apologized red-faced when asked (nicely) not to smoke on our property.

I think the idea of “not idling” makes a lot of sense for a lot of different reasons. (Many of them outlined here.) However, it think this law is completely the wrong way to go about it. It would be much better and probably effective to inform people about the benefits of not-idling. Rather than punishing people from their lazy attitude towards burning excess fuel, why not inform them that there are alternatives. In this way, there would be no need for the myriad of exceptions that will eventually make this law worthless. Legislators, some times the carrot works. You don’t have to always use the stick!

“I’ve had to chase off various bus drivers idling outside my house, because the exhaust seeps in through the windows.”

What have we become?

Our sweetest friend?

I believe that a careful use of both the carrot AND the stick gets the greatest results, Douglas.

But I agree with your point on education. I posted this, in part, to stimulate conversation and inform others of the ordinance. Ideally, as more people hear of this, they my change their habits and reduce idling their vehicles, not just in Minneapolis, but all through the state.

And then, there are the people like binky and Bud jr. Who seem to think because someone in a Governmental position of authority says it might be a good idea to do something (or not do something), it is their divine duty to act otherwise.

I think George Carlin said it best!!

The planet has been through a lot worse than us. Been through all kinds of things worse than us. Been through earthquakes, volcanoes, plate tectonics, continental drift, solar flares, sun spots, magnetic storms, the magnetic reversal of the poles…hundreds of thousands of years of bombardment by comets and asteroids and meteors, worlwide floods, tidal waves, worldwide fires, erosion, cosmic rays, recurring ice ages…And we think some plastic bags, and some aluminum cans are going to make a difference? The planet…the planet…the planet isn’t going anywhere. WE ARE!!

@Rat: Maybe you’ve got better windows. I don’t know, it seems courteous to consider how one’s air-polluting actions affect other people’s well being, if only lest you end up driving off your dinner date….

“What have we become?”

People who don’t want to die of carbon monoxide poisoning even if it mildly inconveniences somebody else?

And then, there are the people like binky and Bud jr. Who seem to think because someone in a Governmental position of authority says it might be a good idea to do something (or not do something), it is their divine duty to act otherwise.

That is the whole point; they are not just telling us it is a good idea. They are mandating it.

I can agree with the unattended vehicle part, because that is dangerous. Hell, I’d even be ok with the city enforcing this law on city owned property–parks, city buildings, etc. But I have a problem with the notion that I can be charged criminally for sitting in my own idling car on my own property, waiting for something. Am I the only one?

Using charcoal briquettes produces hydrocarbons and particulates. Should we no longer be able to fire up the grill in our backyards? Does no one else see the bad precedent set by embracing laws like this?

@DouglasG

This is more about education rather than punishing people.  I don’t think you’ll see people getting ticketed any time soon — they’ll get and educational flyer alerting them to the health effects associated with vehicle exhaust.

This story in MNDaily supports Aliecat’s first comment at the Head of the Thread.

Yes, baker. You are the only one. Your civil liberties and private property right are being abused. Elp! Elp! I’m being repressed!

Actually, I don’t see anyone “embracing” this ordinance, even Mr. Lungs here. But let’s not bring BBQ into this discussion, but rather focus on the pros and cons of this particular city ordiance.

It’s what’s called the tragedy of the commons. Nobody feels responsibility for the long term health of a shared resource. Believe me, in the future nobody will be wailing about the “bad precedent” that started showing concern for clean air.

I am pretty much with Baker on this.

As a carpooler, we often have to wait for each other to finish up whatever we’re doing. When dealing with work schedules and such, things happen. Sometimes there is no wait, and sometimes I have to wait 5 minutes or so. This law states that I HAVE to shut off my car. I have to shut off my car because it MAY be more than 3 minutes.

Here I am being a good emissions citizen by sharing a ride, and I am being penalized for the nature of sharing a ride.

Further, if this is just a education campaign, then it is a terrible way to go about it. If they are not going to actually enforce this law, then why have a law in the first place? There so many flaws in this law, it is difficult to know where to begin. Thankfully, I live in Saint Paul!

Doug: How does shutting off your car = “penalty?”

I salute you for being a good emissions citizen and carpooling.

Are you willing to be an even better GEC by not idling in Minneapolis? How much hardship are we talking about here?

Even with the recent fall in the price of gas, if I were to sit there idling for 5 minutes, the only thing I’m thinking of is all the $$’s flying out the tail pipe.

The car isn’t going to get that cold in 5 minutes. Probably not even in 10 minutes.

Longer than that, you’re better off parking and finding a lobby to wait in. Or, don’t leave your warm office until the person you’re picking up calls and says they’re ready to leave.

wakawaka, they already have issued fines. And why spend the time crafting an ordinance and getting it through council, etc if it is simply an education campaign?

KC embraced the law. Bob, You can bend over and grab your ankles all you like, just kindly face the other way so you don’t pollute my field of vision.

This ordinance has absolutely nothing to do with auto theft, despite the anecdote on mndaily. (read the purpose of the ordinance as stated on the minneapolis website.) If you leave your car idling unlocked, then you should not be surprised if it gets stolen.

mnblrmkr, we all assume responsiblity for shared resources. We recycle, turn of lights when not in use, conserve water, etc. And if I am going to sitting somewhere for a while waiting, and my car is comfortable, there is a good chance I will turn it off. The difference is that I chose to turn it off as to not waste gas.

Doug: How does shutting off your car = “penalty?”

 I think his point is that not shutting of the car = penalty.

Well, I guess you are right, baker, this ordinance represent the Police State in it’s purest and most evil form. Silly of me not to notice earlier.

So, you can a) work to elect public officials who more closely reflect your idealology; b) move to Coon Rapids, where you can idle all day if you want to; or c) ignore the ordinance and take your chances.

“I were to sit there idling for 5 minutes, the only thing I’m thinking of is all the $$’s flying out the tail pipe.”

It’s a good idea to turn it off, but at the end of the day, they are your dollars and that is your tail pipe.

Do one of those cheesy public service ads. But don’t start laying on fines. It doesn’t collect that much money and it just pisses people off.

Drive by any Estate sale during the winter, people wait for as much as 7 hours to get in.

Are they supposed to freeze their asses off or get a ticket?

I agree that a lot of commercial vehicles idle for no apparent reason, but leave John Q Public out of it, unless there is no one inside.

Not a well thought out law, especially in Minnesota!

It’s a penalty Bob because if I don’t comply, I will be issued a citation.

Further, there is a wait in the morning and another wait in the evening. Thus, every day there would be two extra starts of the car. Thus, increasing the wear and tear on the engine’s starting infrastructure — battery, starter, etc. This is not the occasional, run to the store, extra start. This is every day. Two extra starts every day. Thus, I am penalized for carpooling in this way.

If it is extremely cold, or extremely hot, I can wait in heated or conditioned air, but otherwise, I have to live with the elements if my cohort is running late. Thus, I am penalized for carpooling in this way.

There are possibly more ways.

Oh come on, just a few post ago you said “lets talk about the pros and cons.” Now you resort to sarcasm and snark?

My “ideology”?
I would guess that the only major differences between me and you and our views on the environment are that I sometimes question and consider proposed environmental regulations and their legitimacy and potential impact on other aspects of life before just automatically accepting them.

It’s a good idea to turn it off, but at the end of the day, they are your dollars and that is your tail pipe.

If that’s all it were, fine. I’d agree. But that’s not all it is.

Maybe we should go back to allowing coal fired power plants to use unfiltered smoke stack technology? After all, it’s their smokestack, and their dollars that have to be spent installing scrubbers.

Nanny state? We’re past nanny on the way to…dare I say it?…fascist state.

Fail.

Is there an equivalent to Godwin’s Law regarding the use of fascist?

Especially when it isn’t even used correctly?

“After all, it’s their smokestack, and their dollars that have to be spent installing scrubbers.”

Maybe that’s a fair comparison to idling cars. I tend to not think so.

But you’re saying there is no stopping point?

I don’t know at what point idling vehicles became a pollution threat, but they have been around for awhile. Why now? When did they become a problem? Has idling cars gotten out of hand at some point? And, if so, what problems have they created? Can it be quantified?

Somewhere in heaven, Thomas Jefferson says, “This is not what we had in mind.”

Well, that Constitution is a fine, handsome document. Society is messier.

I just blogged a slightly more complete thought on this, but the ordinance says I can’t leave my bus idling more than fifteen minutes unless I have a paying customer on board.

Metro Transit’s policy is for us to keep the buses idling between the temps of 36 and 80.

Occasionally, I’ll have a seventeen- or eighteen-minute layover at a place like 27th and Washington St. NE, where there is nowhere for me to go to keep warm, and where no one gets on the bus.

Those buses are not very airtight and can get cold quickly, especially when it’s cold and windy.

Thanks, Mpls.

“Oh come on, just a few post ago you said “lets talk about the pros and cons.” Now you resort to sarcasm and snark?”

Point taken. But if you know me, I ALWAYS resort to sarcasm and snark. It’s how I roll. This is (or was) MNSpeak. We are a sarcastic and snarky crowd. But we respect the views of our friends — I gotta work on that one. One of my many personal failings.

I do apologize, baker. You think I “accept without question,” I think I just feel very strongly about the environment. If anyone here has an “ideology,” it’s me.

For that, I make no apologies.

Rat, there are a hell of a lot more vehicles on the road since you and I were kids. At some point, we passed that tipping point. Emissions form mobile sources (aka vehicles) are the single largest source of air pollution in Minnesota. That’s not an opinion. It’s a fact.

I don’t know at what point idling vehicles became a pollution threat, but they have been around for awhile. Why now? When did they become a problem? Has idling cars gotten out of hand at some point? And, if so, what problems have they created? Can it bequantified?

Maybe at the point where there are several hundred million of them in the world? Locally, the tipping point would be much lower.

Alternatively, the problem has always been there, and we just didn’t recognize it.

I’m guessing bob could toss some numbers your way.

Nanny state? We’re past nanny on the way to…dare I say it?…fascist state.

Not even close. You know, a word like “fascist” actually means something beyond “I don’t like it.”

“there are a hell of a lot more vehicles on the road since you and I were kids.”

And they burn a lot cleaner. Gas used to have lead in it. Pollution control features in cars cut back on that, and drove up the price, who knows how much. OK, money well spent. I don’t remember smoggy cities or coal burning furnaces.

But I’m not certain the idling law has as much to do with pollution control as it does social engineering. There’s more at work. You’re just creating another group of lawbreakers.

It’s coming down to the same thing. Burning too much gas, burning too many cigarettes. It becomes a character issue.

Brokaw was badgering Obama about having a cigarette occasionally this week, forgodsake. “Have you quit? Gonna smoke in the White House?” What’s that about?

It’s coming down to the same thing. Burning too much gas, burning too many cigarettes. It becomes a character issue.

Character issue? Well, you’re quite a character. But perhaps you are correct. How you show respect for the rules, for our community, our environment may well be a sign of a person’s character. I don’t know.

But I’m not certain the idling law has as much to do with pollution control as it does social engineering.

I’m not certain that you are not a little bit paranoid about a relatively straight forward and clearly defined city ordinance, or at least about the elected officials who passed it. What part of “social engineering” scares you so much?

Rat, you can’t seem to shake your obsessive belief that people who smoke, including the President-elect, are being regularly harassed and vilified because they use tobacco.  What’s that about?

Somewhere in heaven, Thomas Jefferson says, “This is not what we had in mind.”

If there’s a precedent to go by, you might look to Jefferson’s concerns about deforestation in Virginia. He opined that people should spare the trees and use old wood. He would not have had any idea that such a thing as smog lay in our nation’s future, but Jefferson was aware of the tragedy of the commons and that it was, in fact, a tragedy. 

So what does this mean for all the people with remote starters on their cars? My work parking lot has any number of cars idling near the end of a shift or regular business hours.

I think it means trouble, erica. I take it you work within the city limits of Minneapolis?

So what does this mean for all the people with remote starters on their cars?

I think it means this is another ordinance that will be ignored.

Bourgeois gadgets like that are probably frowned on.

I don’t think the people enforcing the ordinance are motivated by proletariat resentments.

Here’s a link to a local blog with some startling stats on idling.

A sample:

“The Argonne National Laboratory estimates (pdf) that idling commercial vehicles alone burn about 3.1 billion gallons of fuel annually.”

That’s more fuel than ALL the vehicles in Minnesota use in an average year.

“Rat, you can’t seem to shake your obsessive belief that people who smoke, including the President-elect, are being regularly harassed and vilified because they use tobacco. What’s that about?”

He’s not the only one. Seriously, the number of times I’ve been harrassed by complete strangers about smoking would surprize you, Bob.

Yes, I remember you telling me about that before, AC. It’s just that I can’t imagine anyone doing that — it’s been a few years since I last smoked.

Sorry that there are so many jerks out there, aliecat. They will never hear anything from me that encourages anyone to hassle somebody else because they smoke — provided they are not breaking any ordinances/laws prohibiting smoking, it’s none of their damn business!

This law is a joke. If Minneapolis was really concerned with our air quality they would require yearly inspections and emissions testing on all vehicles like most other metropolitan areas.

I wonder how long my well maintained vehicle has to idle in order to pollute the air as much as the rust buckets I see spewing huge amounts of exhaust down the highway? I’m originally from the DFW area in Texas and I can tell you that a large number of vehicles you see on the road here, wouldn’t be allowed on the road in Texas.

Not to mention, with the crime in the Minneapolis area surely the police have something better to do than sit around with a stop watch timing my idle when it is 10 degrees outside.

While normally a law abiding citizen, this is a law I plan to break every morning this winter. I bought a remote starter for a reason. I can start my car and not worry about it being stolen. My neck is more titanium than bone and if I get chilled I end up in a world of pain for hours. I’m heating up my car before I get in it.

We used to have a vehicle inspection program, TXinMN, but it was shelved some years ago.

Bob, I think a lot of problems in this country could be solved by administering a healthy dose of “mind your own business.”

As for people harrassing me, I think they think they’re just being helpful or funny, but it gets really irritating after a while. I mean, it’s not like I’m chain smoking in the hospital nursery or anything. Now I just ignore them or just give them the stink eye.

I think a lot of problems in this country could be solved by administering a healthy dose of “the stink eye.”

I love that term. “stink eye” heh!

I can tell you that a large number of vehicles you see on the road here, wouldn’t be allowed on the road in Texas.

What, are they not big enough?

Spells,

Size has nothing to do with it. In TX they require an annual safety inspection on each vehicle. They check things like the lights, the braking system, windshield wipers, and the exhaust system. In heavily populated counties they also require an emissions test as part of that inspection. If your muffler has rust holes in it or your tail light is red duct tape, you fail the inspection. Result: No junk cars rattling down the road gagging us with their defective exhaust systems.

Just joshin’, TX. As Bob mentioned, MN used to have such a program (though I can’t recall if the inspection was quite that extensive). I believe Jesse Ventura scuttled that program, I would guess in part because he probably has a fleet of gas guzzlers of all stripes.

You will have to get used to our passive-agressive Minnesota Not-So-Nice snark, TXinMN.

Old spells was just funnin you.

We know how the system works. We also know that every county and metro area in Minnesota mets federal air quality standards.

Now you Texicans do a damn fine job with your wind energy — better than anyone else — but for a Texas type to lecture us on our air quality legislation is kinda “all hat and no cattle,” if you catch my drift. Both Houston and Dallas-Ft. Worth were among the top 10 most ozone polluted cities in the 2008 American Lung Association State of the Air Report.

How’d you know I am old, Bob? Oh, I’m sure I mentioned it once or twice.

You sat behind me in Study Hall, spells.

No wait, that was T. rex.

Heh.

I don’t work in Minneapolis, but the worker bees of Eden Prairie can’t be the only ones with remote starters.

we need a law immediately. –=adults and children are getting sick. This fume has cause many deaths.

How long is this shit going to go on?

Pretty sure the Badger and the Cow are the same person, logging in and out. Also suspect they are in the UK, and thus our middle-of-the-night is “their” middle-of-the-day. So they should be leaving us alone right about… now.

I’m suspecting mental illness…

I agree with Jane and Alie.

I agree with Kurtis and Alie. And me.

Please don’t respond to Badgery Thing or any of the related posts. I will just delete them when they appear.

I agree with Max.

I blame ethanol.