Secrets of the City

Why aren’t the 20-31 unhappy is what I’m wondering?.. I work in the web development field and that doesn’t have a lot of promotions going on. the easiest way to get a pay increase is to switch jobs. but hey, maybe those gen X people have different priorities then the gen Y people. i see the 19-31 people as either going to college or being relatively mobile and really not quite ready to settle down yet.

Butt out, New York Times!

Being labeled a Gen Xer is new to me… is that validation of all my cynicism supposed to make me feel better?

I thought the idea of job loyalty went out the window 20 years ago … after the last major recession, ax-swingings and corporate down-sizings. Isn’t that one reason why the 401(k) became useful? A retirement fund that was, unlike a pension, somewhat mobile no matter where an employee worked?

I very much doubt that there are many — if any — Gen Xers who’ve worked now for the same company for ten years or more. Unlike some Boomers who defined their “career” by the company that employed them for 20+ years, I thought the whole trend the past decade was not to count on job security and stability, and that it was more likely a Gen Xer would work for 5 or more companies during their careers.

As a “Gen Xer” I have worked for the same company for 15 years! So nyah! However, I never thought I would.

Aren’t you special, DouglasG!

I think I am borderline GenX and GenY!

I have no major complaints about my job. Nine years in, but of course it could go any time.

It helps I’ve been watching a lot of Chinese revolutionary films–yeesh, what a difference.

I’ve worked in gov’t for the last 8 years and have had 6 different positions. But I have stalled out at my current job for the last 2.5 years. I’m okay with that because my job is great and gives me lots of flexibility. But if I was stuck in some of my other jobs that I used as stepping stones, I’d be a pissed off Gen Xer too.

Loyalty is a two-way street. We’ve seen enough corporate mergers & acquisitions followed by layoffs, freezes & pay cuts in the name of greater profits (which aren’t reinvested in the company but are isntead pocketed by stock-price-driven executives) you can’t help but question your comapny’s loyalty to its employees. Having said that, my sense of loyalty is still very strong, but only from paycheck to paycheck.

Loyalty is for sheep. To be loyal in this country is to be screwed over. I think that people of my generation have learned that promotions are based on your ability to lick and suck. Ability is for the worker bees but not for the leaders. Look at how well our country’s business leaders have done in the last ten years. They have brought us the biggest economic mess since the great depression. As soon as I can get out I am out and don’t care what happens then.

“Why aren’t the 20-31 unhappy is what I’m wondering?..”

They’re still in college and/or living at home with mom and dad footing the bill. (which for the younger ones, are older genx’ers…maybe that’s part of some gen x’ers discontent)

None of the boomers at my work are retiring anytime soon. They can’t afford to. Yeah, I’m a bitter Xer, but the boomers, at least those who bought houses when they could, have low mortgages, more retirement savings, less college debt, and at least now are hanging on tightly to their jobs. Actually, I’m technically a Gen Yer by this article, but most places consider me Gen X (b. 1978), and I can’t say I’m a footloose and fancy free Gen Yer, either. I have a kid to feed, debt that I thought would be paid off by now, and huge medical bills to pay off despite having never gone without insurance. Is it really so much to ask that we can live a life with at least a little security? I thought I’d have at least a small retirement account by now, but instead I have a month-to-month lease, health insurance that will be gone if the job disappears, and a fear that it could all fall apart in an instant. Maybe the younger Gen Yers don’t worry because they’re either still in school or living off mom and dad, or even if independent they still don’t feel the pressure that by this stage of life they should be stable and well-established. They still have time. I do too, I know, but it’s scary to think about the future.

I agree with g rote – loyalty is a two way street. I would love to be loyal to a company, but only if they stop laying me off, which is what has happened twice in the last three years. It’s a bit tough to have loyalty when you have to worry about losing your job every time the third quarter rolls around. Not that I’m bitter about it or anything…

I am near the upper edge of the gen-x spectrum. I don’t ever really want to work again. I am too old to play the bullshit politics and ass kissing that is needed to try and make your boss (who is likely younger than you now) not look like a complete screwup. My last boss created a story that I threatened him so he could get rid of me. They now have 2 people working full time and one half time on the projects I did all by myself. I don’t have really any connections and the chances of me finding a job at even close to what I was making are slim to none.

Most of the friends my age are unemployed or partially employed. I guess I always thought that in America is had more to do with how hard you work and now smart you are. It has nothing to do with that. It’s all about having the right connections and kissing ass.

@Dougie_D: Sorry to hear of your travails. It’s no fun having to live a life of uncertainty.

Someone is sure to flame me but what the hell. What’s happened in the past 25 years is that a lot of people drank the Reagan Kool-Aid and bought the whole agenda without understanding the impact that “lower taxes,” “no new taxes,” “free market” and “deregulation” would have on their lives.

Lower and “no new taxes” meant that there would no longer be safety nets in place when the road gets rocky; also, what you may have gained on Federal tax basis was eliminated by the need for state and local governments to raise revenue to cover things the Feds formerly covered. “Free market” was just code for moving hundreds of thousands of good-paying US manufacturing and industrial jobs overseas where labor was cheaper. “Deregulation” should be self-explanatory.

Networking > Not Working. intelligence manifests itself in a lot of different forms, one of them being interpersonal relations. in careerist terms, cultivating the right connections = being smart. don’t be bitter, be better.

Dougie, The bosses now days want more than a kiss. It is full penetration and sucking that counts. As a generation we are shit out of luck.

mnblrmkr – They are happy because they are still hoping for change that will not come. They are a generation that is to stupid to realize they are screwed because mommy and daddy have not told them that the check in the mail is going to bounce and room in the basement at their parents home is about to go into foreclosure.

How do you network when you don’t know anyone? or have clearly defined skills? I worked for one company for 8 years, from the day it opened in the bosses basement to the time I left when I figured out that I was stuck and he was putting Italian tile in his cabin.

I am sort of a jack of all trades, I know quite a bit about everything but am master of nothing. I grow bored doing the same thing over and over. Too bad that is what a career is.

You network by coming on MNSpeak and saying, “Man, it sucks. I’m out of work. I’m looking for something like X or X. Anyone know of anything?” And then you do that on Twitter. And on Facebook. And with everyone you meet. I’m willing to help and others are too.

You helped me at one time. I’d help you if I knew of anything. I’m currently looking for a job for my Dad and my cousin’s girlfriend, so I spend a lot of time on job boards and if see anything, I’d send it your way. I just need to know what I’m looking for.

And for everyone, here are places I browse regularly for jobs:

http://www.careers.state.mn.us/
https://www.minnesotaworks.net/
http://www.mncn.org/jobs/
http://www.jobsinminneapolis.com/
and all the county and local city websites.

My comment is awaiting moderation? WTF? when did that start?

“How do you network when you don’t know anyone?”

um…nevermind.

@Noodleman: True words!

I am sure glad I don’t live in Swanny’s world.

I think that’s the issue. Ever since I was a child I have never dreamed of being or doing anything. I have had to lie and fake my way through more “What do you want to be when you grow up?” and “Where do you see yourself in 5 year?” questions than you can count. I really just want a job that I can execute at a high level without being forced to try and constantly advance. I am extremely good at budgeting and forecasting using historical data. Have very good Excel and research skills. I learn new systems and processes easily and quickly. I enjoy trouble shooting and fixing problems for people. I have worked in nearly every industry at one time or another.

So what do I do? Collect unemployment until that runs out then go find a temp job like I have done to get every job I have basically ever had.

g_rote, I’m not sure you are aware of this but some people aren’t born with the ability to make friend with every person they meet. I was at my last job for over 4 years and only one person I worked with even attempted to contact me to see why I disappeared one day. In short people don’t and haven’t ever cared about me.

what, your boyfriend doesn’t count?

I did say people. I have a few close friends but in general it takes a long time for people to really get to know me and most don’t care to take that time.

Doug, be confident in yourself and your abilities. Doing this will make you a much more attractive to an employer, as well as making you feel better about yourself. You just listed a numer of good skills. Just keep looking, placing ads, etc. You are good at numbers! Tax season is not too far off.

@doug
http://www.sadtrombone.com/

Hey at least I’m not an overweight balding guy!
I got that going for me. Douchebag.

Hey! I confided my secret to you (MNspeakers) of being a fat drunken filthy guy in confidence! And I never said I was balding!!!!

Someone seems extra touchy about the balding subject!

Well I am. Sniff!

Sad Trombone site is blocked at work! What the hell? And my previous comment is still awaiting moderation. Is someone going to moderate that please?

Of course, when it does get moderated, it will be so far up in the conversation that no one will see and won’t be useful.

kc!, not sure why your comment got flagged — perhaps the list of multiple links. Happens sometimes when comments might be spam. Sorry. Approved and posted.

And… I was on a plane sans iPhone service. Hence the delay.

Thanks for the links KC! I have already been checking those.

Hey! I confided my secret to you (MNspeakers) of being a fat drunken filthy guy in confidence! And I never said I was balding!!!!

When Barbara Carlson had her radio show on AM1500, she’d periodically complain about going bald. Oh, but it wasn’t her head of hair she was talking about.

@nood I think that zinger was directed at me.

damn you nood’. That is not an image I need in my head.

Discontentment and insecurity seems to run rampant in the lives of all of my GenX friends. Its our claim to fame. I blame the skewed vision of a life, our parents gave us. But, I could be wrong.

i would be miserable staying at the same company for an extended period of time. unless you’re moving around departments or getting great promotions, you’re just treading water and becoming less marketable each day.

dougie, man, i think you need some counseling. career and personal. might help, couldn’t hurt.

I’m starting to think that being reared in a time of Mutually Assured Nuclear Destruction hanging over our heads has skewed how we think about the future. I never planned on living this long. Where was my assured flaming death under a school desk?

Boomers rule, you GenX fool! Except we don’t. Our old butts are getting laid off at the same rates as you younger folk (try looking for work after 50, and getting coverage with a pre-existing medical condition).

That said, I try to keep a positive attitude. Maybe its a generational thing, maybe it’s just the way I roll.

Discontentment and insecurity seems to run rampant in the lives of all of my GenX friends.

Blame it on the parenting and teaching philosophies of the time. I wasn’t exaggerating in another thread when I mentioned handing out gold medals to every runner of a race so no one would feel left out. Crap like that happened fur realz.

An idea like that, along with godawful T-ball leagues and the concept of “quality time” (as opposed to actually making a priority of raising children vs. they’re just something else on the list of daily things to do), is what warped GenX, IMHO. Those children were never allowed to prove themselves during childhood, and too many lack the skills or wherewithal to deal with a business world that does not bestow the same rewards coming in fourth or fiftieth as coming in first or second.

It’s not punishment to be #2 or #5 or #100. If you want to be #1, you just have to try harder or try smarter or try again and again. If you want to teach a child about success, you don’t hand out the same ribbon to everyone just for playing the same game.

Childhood is where we’re supposed to learn about disappointment; not when you’re 29 and are out of job for the third time this decade. Mommy and daddy spent too much coddling mediocrity-in-the-name-of-fairness while forgetting that mediocrity doesn’t put a lot of food on the table or a roof over your head.

Cubbie, I guess I don’t see myself as a commodity to be packaged and sold. I think that is part of the GenX thing also.

“Childhood is where we’re supposed to learn about disappointment…”

In that case, I have had a very good education. (g)

Not to speak for an entire generation but I for one never needed to be #1. I don’t need monetary success as a measuring stick against my neighbors. Striving to be the richest and most successful is what has but us in this bullshit situation. I don’t think GenX is envious of the rich I think they are disappointed in how those that do control the wealth continue to treat their fellow human beings.

@justpbob: I think a lot of us grew up with being disappointed. Just like our parents did. I know I was disappointed when I wanted a GI Joe for Christmas the first year it appeared and, instead, got some kind of crappy knock-off. My parents understood the carrot-and-stick approach very well. LOL

I never played on a winning Little League team … but I still had a lot of fun, especially the two years I spent being catcher.

I never won any foot, bicycle or swimming races. I didn’t get beat up a lot (no bullies in the ‘hood) but if I did fight, I was the one who usually went home with the bloody nose.

When my friends and I took Red Cross swimming lessons in the summer, we had to be at the outdoor pool at 8 a.m. In the summertime. During summer vacation. And the water was damned cold at 8 a.m. even in July. Indoor pool? What’s that? lol

I know , I know. Cue: Sad trombone

Alright who forgot to send me the e-vite to the pity party, was I supposed to bring chips?

Rogaine

Not to speak for an entire generation but I for one never needed to be #1. I don’t need monetary success as a measuring stick against my neighbors.

Dougie, it’s not so much about actually achieving #1 or having the most toys. That’s not what sports and tests and other competitions are really about … except to the Heckers, Petters, McGuires and Sosas of the world.

If you love what you do, that’s a reward in and of itself.

Holy Sh*t am I going bald?

Every morning I wake up and shave in front of the mirror before getting ready to go to work, yet somehow I was able to look right past it?

How could this happen?

Thanks for pointing it out to me Dougie….you’re a true friend.

With friends like you who needs enemas?

Apparently me cause I am so full of sh*t my eyes are brown.

Alright it’s been fun but I am going to go ahead and finish this off with a:

“I know you are but what am I”

for good measure.

L8r Sk8rs

My comment is awaiting moderation? WTF? when did that start?
When you started to post ridiculous sh*t like WHERE TO LOOK FOR JOBS.

I’ve been going bald since junior high, but that and other things don’t really get me down. Could be worse. Except for the new Twins road uniforms, those in fact could not be worse.

What I’ve noticed a lot about people in my Generation is their expectation of being a VP their second year out of college, only to find out that a B.S. is on the level of a H.S. Diploma. I’m sure there’s a lot of pissy admins with $40K in student loans out there.

Not me, of course.

I’m baaack gonna spit some knowledge in ya ear.

Titles don’t pay your mortgage

Never take a job where the compensation is fun and or cachet…try making a car payment with your funbook. Get any promised future compensation such as bonus structures put in writing and never make your boss look bad.

Also, I wonder how many people are looking to their jobs for personal fulfillment. They think their sucky (or non sucky) job defines them as a person, and it shouldn’t. That’s one of my criteria for a job. I do NOT want to take it home with me, ever. Which is why I’ll never be management…

I am a 100% dedicated, loyal and enthusiastic employee …. until the paycheck stops.

I am very Gen X, but I am extremely happy with my job. I earn way more than I ever thought I would, and I consider myself lucky every day.

I once worked at a company for six years, and bought all the lines about “work family” and loyalty. I received a mere $6K in raises during the six years I was there. Since then, I’ve worked at three other places in four years, and my income has more than doubled since that first job.

Dougie D, you sound intelligent and like you could easily step into a nice data analyst or financial gig. Maybe just make sure no bad attitude shows through in interviews.

Networking – volunteer somewhere. Gives you something to do while unemployed, and might lead to connections. Career, or otherwise.

I would kill for a $1000 per year raise.

I think finance gigs are going to be tough to come by for a few years to come. Even for people with finance degrees.

I was fortunate. I started working in my profession when it was still possible to walk in the door and introduce yourself, and when there were still thousands of stations with regular openings. You had to work your way up, in almost apprentice-like fashion, but you learned a lot of hard skills (vs. soft skills) and it was a given that you’d be hopping from station to station looking for more opportunity. (In those days, the goal was to reach a major market; NYC or LA if you really had talent. One often started at some small town station, reading lost dog announcements and obituaries.) You may have needed a license (a requirement that ended in 1979) but you didn’t need a degree.

Nowadays, I doubt if more than 2000-3000 stations, of the 10,000 on the dial, do any active hiring. The rest are hubbed, voice-tracked, or otherwise automated, and the FCC doesn’t even require the presence of anyone in the studio, or even an engineer on-site, anymore while a station broadcasts.

So, anyone in dire straits has my sympathy. But sometimes it pays to be, or think like, a gypsy. Or, as one of my former radio colleagues recently did, learn to drive a truck.

That’s one of my criteria for a job. I do NOT want to take it home with me, ever. Which is why I’ll never be management…

Or politics.

This may single-handedly make everyone happier. http://news.cnet.com/8301-27083_3-10398949-247.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-5

I think the older end of GenX had plenty of schooling in disappointment, the awards for everyone started long after my HS graduation (i’m 42) I see that as more of a GenY issue. Whatever. My generation I think grew up with a skewed illusion of happy family/people all around and we expected the same. Little did we know we were being shielded from a harsher reality. I was brought up to believe if you treated people with respect, you would get it back in kind. It was a rude awakening. Our folks meant well, everyone ‘meant well’. In an effort to do the right thing for my son, I quit my job when he was born, 4 1/2 years later my skills are obsolete in the workplace, so in doing ‘the right thing’ I ended up once again a cynical GenX’er looking for work. You don’t get points for putting anyone but yourself first…(says the cynic) Cheers all! :-€

This is going to make me sound like a cynical asshole, but sometimes I think parents shouldn’t be pounding the whole “you can be whatever you want to be if you just work hard enough” idea in their kids’ heads every day of their lives. They should certainly encourage kids, but also prepare them for the very real possibility of disappointment and that, sometimes, no matter how hard they work, they may not get what they want and that they’re not a special snowflake. I think some parents do their kids a real disservice by not teaching the harsh realities of the adult world and how to cope or adapt.

I mean, when my grandfather was young he made and lost a fortune in the 20’s, but was able to roll with the punches and not be afraid of failure.

Also, get off my lawn.

I’m part of the advanced guard of the Gen X army (age 43), and the NYT story rings true to me. That said, I’m a happy person. Not particularly successful in my career, but happy. I’m also very cynical. Is it possible that cynicism is what makes a Gen Xer happy?

I think that what defines Genxers IS cynicism. As a generations,the older ones, we where exposed to the consequences of Vietnam, the Nixon debacle and down-sizing. We have been lied to by most of the institutions at one time or another: Government, business the church now we are supposed to be positive. My answer to that is go fuck your self. Nice guys finish last and get screwed the hardest.

Nice guys finish last and get screwed the hardest.

Then why do some GenXers think they should be handed the world on a silver platter? The term “slacker” seemed to have been invented for GenX for a reason. Where does the sense of entitlement come from?

It’s not so much having been duped by authority, either. A lot of us grew up during Vietnam, Nixon, etc. but don’t hold all of our institutions in high disregard. (Aside: IMHO it’s almost also a universal opinion among GenXers that “Reagan = Good : Carter = Bad.” Well, I guess GenX got lied to by the best.)

I don’t think that we feel that we are entitled as much as we will only do what is necessary to get paid no more or less. Slacker implies that we are not willing to work as hard as some feel we should, that is different that entitlement. I think most of us feel that we get screwed by employers and have no illusion of some magical corporate latter that will bring us self-actualization. We have seen our parent laid off and have to beg for work and most of us are unwilling to suck our way to the top. Politically if we are political at all we tend to be independent not in favor of one party or another. Furthermore, most of us feel that the baby boomers are a joke and drank some far left wing cool aid but that does not mean that we all feel that Reagan was the best thing since sliced bread. I think both parties are bought and paid for and are full of shit. I have no ideology that fits into a neat democratic or republican model. In the end we are fairly well educated and cynical a dangerous combination to the status quo. It is a passive aggressive war we wage. We have learned to agree with people and go on our way doing what we want until we are forced to comply. That is not entitlement that is a tactic.

I think most of us feel that we get screwed by employers and have no illusion of some magical corporate latter that will bring us self-actualization.

I see two concerns here:

1. No one I know among the Boomers, or before, has ever worked for any company with the mistaken belief that something “magical” will happen. To believe otherwise is to believe everything Hollywood throws at you.

2. Just what the fcku is “self-actualization?” If you mean “to realize a personal goal,” then just say that rather than using something euphemistic or smug.

Furthermore, most of us feel that the baby boomers are a joke and drank some far left wing cool

If you do some research, you would find out that most Boomers are not “far left wing” … or even “near” left wing. If Boomers numbered that many on the left, Reagan would not have been elected in 1980. By then, the Boomers were all 18+ and eligible to vote.

I think both parties are bought and paid for and are full of shit.

This is where cynicism runs smack into reality. Because politics has always been about special interests. E.g., the Founding Fathers acted the way they did because it was their own (sometimes selfish) mercantile interests to declare independence from England. It happened to work in their favor that many fellow colonists did more business on this continent than they did with England.

The system won’t change just because you start voting for some third- or fourth-party candidate. Only the special interests will change.

Addendum to the above:

Demographics of the 1980 Presidential Election [via Roper Institute].

Note that the Boomer generation in 1980 was divided between the 22-29 & 30-44 demographics. I was 25 in 1980, born toward the tale end of the Baby Boom (1946-1960) and so was about 10 years removed from the oldest of the Boomers who voted.

This idiocy about Boomers universally being Lefties is just one of the many political fallacies that have been propagated by conservatives since the ’70s.

I think I maybe know one boomer who is a “leftie”. And “Reagan = Good : Carter = Bad” is definitely not true for me, and I’m Gen X.

We should make a list of our demographic stereotypes.

Why? Because the generation before us ran the world’s biggest ponzi scheme. From The Daily Reckoning:

“The boomer generation also made a mess of the biggest success story in world history – the United States of America. In the ’60s and ’70s – when boomers matured and began to take over – the US was still on top of the world. It had a positive trade balance…huge savings…massive investments abroad…and the strongest companies in the world.”

http://dailyreckoning.com/spitting-on-the-boomers-financial-legacy/

@Richard: You mean Richard Nixon, who allowed the US dollar to float against other currencies resulting in its diminishing value, was a Boomer? Do you mean Ronald Reagan, who quadrupled the size of the national debt for which we now devote almost 5% of our budget just to pay the interest, was a Boomer? Bernie Madoff was a Boomer? How many Senators and Representatives voted into Congress since 1980 have been Boomers (for they were the ones who ultimately voted for things like financial deregulation, etc.)?

I’m sure Gen X and Gen Y will be as well-represented in the world of white-collar crime as any other generation before them.