Secrets of the City

I don’t like the increasing trend of using spur as a verb.

“Spur” has always had a verb usage, hasn’t it?

Btw, the Episcopal Church also has had a few congregations leave after electing a gay bishop a couple of years ago. Gay pastors, however, in the ECA are apparently not as big a deal because two recent candidates for bishop of Minnesota were lesbian.

What does leaving really mean?

I am assuming it is like an umbrella organization or holding company for national/international fundraising?

Who has the bigger coffers?

In the case of the Episcopal church, “leaving” means a parish severing ties with the administrative authority of the national organization or simply disintegrating. A couple of Episcopal parishes have even gone so far as to contemplate reintegration with the more conservative Anglican church (i.e. the Church of England), from which the Episcopal church originated after the Revolution, as the Anglican Church in North America. The Vatican has also begun a dialogue with the Anglican church.

“Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.”
- Matthew 25:40

Do these Christians not read the Christian bible?

Arguing over the contents of the Bible is pointless, since it’s so contradictory it can be used to support anything. Better to simply question its legitimacy.

Yeah I assumed there is the ideological issues but the brass tax is money isn’t it?

Do you get access to less funding by leaving one of these umbrella organizations?

What do they provide other than theological direction?

Better to simply question its legitimacy.

Why? Atheism isn’t so legitimate, either, for the same reasons I suspect you question religion.

Yeah I assumed there is the ideological issues but the brass tax is money isn’t it?

No. The conflict is theological. The property aspect only enters into the fray at the time a parish chooses to leave the authority of the Episcopal Church because of the theological conflict.

oh so the two aren’t intertwined…good thing

Why would anyone that is gay want to join an organization that is bigoted towards them. Someone will post that not all people are that way that attend church but that is like saying all Nazis did not hate Jews. Their is guilt by association and who you support through your time and money. It is a dead religion that has been so bastardized and segmented that I can’t believe people even bother attending a give church. It is about money and I think some of the Church’s pandering and/or catering to the gay community do so to fill the collection plate. Gay people tend to have a fairly high income as a demographic.

Dougie G – remember in the old testament they stone gay people and god destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, many Christians use that story to justify their hatred towards gay people.

See, in the old days, I respond to Swandog’s hate filled message on how many Christians accept GLBT folk into their flocks as full memebers and fight the Christian bashing that is continually allowed on this site and then Max would jump in to say I wrong and should quit whining. I wonder how it will be under new leadership…

You could try not responding to swandog at all.

Not to shut you up but replies to swndog imply her statements are worth considering. Not to shut up swandog either, freedom of speech and all

swandog appears to hate as much as any other bigot, religious or otherwise.

@kc!: I’ve never been under the impression that MnSpeak is a clique of religion-haters. Why shouldn’t we allow differing opinions about religion as much as we’re allowed differ about who makes the best Jucy Lucy in town?

At some point in most everyone’s lives, we question that upon which we were raised. I’ve known plenty of people who questioned the value, or even purpose, of religion in their 20’s, but who later returned to a church of their own choosing. Sometimes it was the denomination that was practiced growing up; sometimes it was a different denomination; sometimes a completely different faith; sometimes they just ambled forward in life without religion at all.

I don’t think the young man really understands the impact his words can have. He seems a decent enough fellow with some anger management issues who just needs to become calmer and better informed. I hope that more life experience and wise friends will help him reach this place.

@swandog: I know. They pick and choose the sections of the New and Old Testaments they like in order to make the points they wish (which was Jeffk’s point.) To me, it just seems quite un-Christian. But what do I know?

noodleman, i think there are some very strong religion haters and Max sided with them each time. I agree there are a lot of people who tolerate or participate in religion, but they often get put on the defensive. In regard to religion, the anti-religious people would get away with things that racists people would never get away with. At least in the past. And that’s at least how I felt, I could be over sensitive.

Are we psychoanalyzing Swandog now?
Even though they are sometimes over the top/offensive, I value his opinions…. It creates a nice balance since the other 99% of commenters here are unimaginably liberal. He has the guts to step outside the mold, dissing religion (yay), and disagreeing with things. He is a model for us all. “yes we can”

agree, it’s good to have lots of opinions here, I mean that! but if someone gets you all riled up with things you strongly disagree with, one of your options is to keep quiet and wait for the next thing. just b/c you disagree doesn’t mean you always have to say so. I’m just saying.

I mean if you are going to get upset and angry, is it worth it?

well, dissing religion isn’t exactly stepping outside the mold here.

One of these days, Jesus is going to start commenting on this site and kick some atheist buut!

Neither is debating what should, or shouldn’t, go into a martini.

I do feel what people forget is that faith in a belief (be it Christianity, Buddhism or Atheism) is something apart from parroting dogma. It should be the dogma that is debated; not the faith.

We’re all bozos on this bus.

Buut?

@JPB are you talking long-flowing-robe-bearded-died-for-your-sins-jesus or “I’ll pull the trigger till it gooes C-L-I-I-CK!” bowling jesus

I think there’s distinction that MnPost made that MNSpeak didn’t

“allow gay pastors to serve as clergy.”

I don’t know that there’s any church that bans gay people in the clergy (I suppose there are), but they just cannot be “openly gay and lesbian clergy in committed relationships.” That’s what the ELCA did. I think you can be gay and be a priest, or a number of other Christian denominations.

Pardon me, Minnesota Independent.

What exactly constitutes openly gay? I think the fact that you are gay comes out eventually. if the church ends up knowing you for who you are it will disqualify you as a clergy member and in many instances a member. Why bother, they should start their own church and skip the mainstream denominations. They could function just like the rest of the stand alone Mega-churches around the country.

@noodle – With out the dogma you do not have the belief. x-mass is the underlying dogma for the belief in Santa clause.

One of these days, Jesus is going to start commenting on this site and kick some atheist buut!

Bring on the Rapture.

“What exactly constitutes openly gay?”

I suppose it means different things to different people. I don’t know if the churches would disqualify someone if they were gay or lesbian and not actively seeking or taking partners. Much the same as a single minister carrying on with someone they’re not married to.

Buut?

High class butt. You put two “u”s between anything and it automatically becomes higher class.

luutefisk?

This is another prime example of how we are indeed in the Laodician church age described in the book of Revelation.

This preterist disagrees.

Hmmm.

Laodicean? (Yes, I had to look up the word.) How is being neutral descriptive of the reaction to the ECLA vote? I don’t see any indifference there.