Secrets of the City

I take this open thread’s virginity with great pride.

I’m wondering what artistic and editorial decisions led to that first cover.

Anyway. We have today off so we’re having lunch at Origami West and going camera shopping.

I hate ventriloquist dummies.

I’m closing on a Healy house sale this morning!!! WahooWahooWahoo!!!

(That is all.)

Good luck and congratulations, Connie.

That ventriloquist dummy looks a bit like an older Cagney, say, “White Heat” era.

I visit Lilek’s Funny Books pages every once in awhile. Amazing how many crappy comic books have been produced.

It’s like they’re made for the Special Olympics or something.

Ohhh, sorry about that.

Kurtis are you looking at point-n-shoot or DSLRs?

If you like the old romance comics (the art anyway), a guy named John Lustig has bought up the rights to several of them and is re-doing them one panel at a time. Some funny stuff: http://www.lastkisscomics.com/

To the girl with the trophy wall: I sure hope you’re happy.

Ryan, I dunno. My wife’s the one looking at cameras. I think she wants to move beyond point and shoot but probably wants some auto options. She’s read up on it and has a couple in mind.

OK, contest time. I’ll give a signed book to whoever creates the best Photoshopped version of that Teen Romance comic with new heads mounted on the wall. Local pols, noted mnspeakers, etc. The world is your oyster.

Oh, I am so glad there was guilty verdict on the double homicide last summer in S Mpls, where a mother and son were viciously beaten and stabbed to death. Good to see juveniles treated like adults. Life without parole. May these kids rot in the cell.

baker- that homicide happened a few blocks from my house. It was particularly horrible for a lot of reasons. And I agree life without parole is the correct sentence. I just wish it didn’t have to be. It is just another life lost.

Does anyone know EXACTLY what time spring starts today? Down to the minute? We are going to celebrate.

Last night on the news they said it was early this morning, like 5:00am.

Kc, I think these kids were already lost. How you can viciously murder someone at 17 is just beyond my understanding.
At least now they are not going to bring anyone else with them.

baker, then lets start treating juveniles like adults in EVERY circumstance. No underage drinking laws. No child labor laws. No minimum voting age. No fretting about child brides. No more statutory rape laws. No child porn laws.

Why on earth would we do that?

Are you arguing these kids should not have been tried as adults?

baker, then lets start treating juveniles like adults in EVERY circumstance.

why do you do that?

It’s Friday, Dave. No trolling.

Thanks, kc! Happy spring.

When do people stop wearing jeans? I put them away after Memorial Day.

baker, if they’re old enough to be treated like adults for criminal punishment, why shouldn’t they be treated like adults in everything else?

If you’re old enough to be held legally accountable as an adult for criminal acts, you should be old enough to engage in any other activity currently restricted to adults.

So I can suume that you disagree with trying juveiles as adults, then?

Stabbing a woman 193 times, beating her and her son with a golf club, and smashing a TV into the head of a ten year old, all for the possibility of a meager financial gain, should be treated as a minor crime and reprimanded with a slap on the wrist.
That would likely give them 5 years in juvenile detention and nothing on their permenent record.

Brilliant, mnblrmkr..

So, how low are you willing to go in trying kids as an adult? 15? 10? 5? Current neurological science shows significant differences in brain function of a 17 year old is significantly different from that of a 30 year old. Even the Supreme Court took a step in recognizing that when they barred capital punishment for juveniles.

You’re right, 5 years in juvie isn’t enough. But I’m not convinced that LWOP is the answer either.

At the very least, if you’re going to try 17 year olds, or what ever age you want to pick, as adults, move every other age restriction to that same age. Don’t pick and choose.  If you’re going to hold them legally accountable as adults for their actions, then give them the same rights and responsibilities to go with that.

Rat, I wear jeans year-round, but definitely wear them way less often in the summer.

I’m glad it is socially acceptable for women to wear skirts and dresses, as that really expands my summery options.

One thing I like about living with 4 distinct seasons is I love to pull out my summer clothes; it’s like getting a new-ish wardrobe! And much as I grouse about the cold, every autumn I like pulling out my sweaters and scarves, etc.

I’d take 2 seasons: Cooler and Hotter than F**K.

I’d still get to wear sweatery things, but summer wear would make up the majority of my wardrobe.

I don’t wear jeans.

I put away the jeans, because I detest hot weather. It’s like I’m wearing canvas.

Given the serious and heinous nature of the crime, I don’t think a statutory exception that automatically certifies juveniles as adults in a first degree murder case is unreasonable. Not sure what mnblrmkr’s point really is.

I wear jeans year-round too, but I try to stick with ligher-weight denim in the summer. The skirts definitely come out more in the summer though.

I probably could have beaten kwatt to the punch, but pulled it at the last second.

One observation I made about that “favorite Prince covers” post is that a lot of folks seem to like their Prince with a little less “negro.”

Haay! Wait a minute … Prince is black?

Actually, I thought maybe Shonen knife had done a Prince cover, but noooo, they had to pick the Carpenters.

THE CARPENTERS for f**ksake.

I love heat/summer – clothes are lighter, it’s easier to be out of the house, food tastes better. I’m less likely to want to rip someone’s head off.

Per Prince’s song Controversy:

I’m not black or white

I’m not straight or gay

jane, it turned spring at 6:39 this morning according to what MPR told me when I woke up. So have a belated celebratory drink. Or four.

I might be drinking beer at my desk right now!! Who knows?!

Headed out to where Jane works.

Given the serious and heinous nature of the crime, I don’t think a statutory exception that automatically certifies juveniles as adults in a first degree murder case is unreasonable. Not sure what mnblrmkr’s point really is.

The law is inconsistent. That’s the point.

We demand to treat them as adults when they commit murder, but we treat don’t do the same when it comes to alcohol or sex, as just two examples.

Again, how young are you willing to lower that exemption for murder?

And why just 1st degree murder? If a kid’s not competent enought to face full adult consequences for lesser crimes, why carve out that exemption.

As far as I am concerned, as soon as you commit murder and are convicted, a a whole new play book opens up. I don’t show sympathy to these kids, as they certainly didn’t show any to the people begging them to stop stabbing them. It’s too bad that these kids went so astray, and I hope their parents, if they had any, are regretting not teaching them the rules of life. Any now the parents will have to live with the fact that they failed as parents. But since this crime was utterly disgusting, throw the book at them.
They lost their chance to participate in society. whatever happens from here on out to them, doesn’t have to be fair or consistent.

the ‘brain changes’ bullshit, is bullshit. Sure brains continue to evolve, but humans know murder is wrong long before 17 years old, unless there is a mental health issue. Acting as if their brains weren’t fully developed so they didn’t know any better is ridiculous. Is that what you were trying to say? What was that point anyways?
These kids were taught that they can take whatever they want, using force if necessary. Two more would-be lifelong criminals won’t see the light of day, and I’m ok with that.

Fine, baker, then lets treat 17 year olds as full adults in every other aspect of life. If, at 17 as you argue, they can fully control and comprehend their actions, why only apply that to this situation?

AND again, I’ll ask you, how low an age are you willing to lower that bar to? Should a 5 year old face execution for murder? A 10 year old?

Should a 5 year old face execution for murder?

i missed the part anyone argued for capital punishment.

Isn’t anyone going to enter Kurtis’ contest?

I pity the fool that ignores Kurtis’ call for entries!

I can never get the damn image to work.

Here is my entry.

If there are special circumstances in which a child can be punished like an adult, are there also circumstances where they can be rewarded like one? Because I was ready to drink at age 17.

That’s excellent, Miller.

The fact is, before SCOTUS ruled it unconstitutional, there were states that executed juveniles,and would leap a the chance to do so again.

But, fine, cubbie, we’ll stick with MN. Should a 5 year old be thrown in prison for life without parole? If not, at what age?

Do you really think cubbie Jr. has the full mental capacity of an adult and should be held to the same standard as a 30 year old?

I think it should be taken on a case by case basis, as it is. In a crime like this though, trying these kids as juveniles for such a brutal and calculated murder just doesn’t seem right.
The youngest kid ever tried as an adult was 12, Lionel Tate, if I recall. I think he killed a six year old by smashing her head with a brick or something.
That case was very contentious, as he was sentenced to life in prison. Many claimed thathe was unaware of what he was actually doing. Unable to control his action, if you will. What he didn’t do was kill his playmate so he could gain something from it, like money or a car, like these kids in mpls did. They were thugs. They were taught to be thugs–to steal and take what they want. They should be tried as thugs.

But I see a pretty big difference mentally between a 12 year old and a 17 year old, but not as much difference between a 17 and 18 year old. A 5 or 10 year old however, should probably not be tried as an adult IMO, as their brains are definitely not as developed as a late teenager.

So you would be ok with the sentence if the kids were 18 instead of 17?

where do you get 30 from? i think the mental capacity between a 17 and 18 yr old is negligible.

i don’t think anyone “leaps” at the chance to execute juveniles.

but you know what…even cubbie jr knows it’s wrong to stab someone 193 times.

But, if 17 years old is old enough to bear the consequences of adulthood, isn’t it old enough to bear the rewards? That’s David’s point, I think. And I agree.

Which of course goes to 18 year olds being old enough to serve in the military and not old enough to drink. Dumb.

And Max, I did drink when I was 17, what were you waiting for?

Does anyone know EXACTLY what time spring starts today? Down to the minute? We are going to celebrate.

Today is the first day of spring? That’s awesome – The first session day after the start of spring is “Dilly Bar Day” in the House.  At least, it is supposed to be.  DFLers have forgot the last two years and it’s not been utnil April.  Typical.

I agreed that trying them merely as juveniles wasn’t enough. I think there should be something in between.
I’m not not sure how you would devise it, but I’m sure there are policy people that have thought about what it might look like.

(the Lionel Tate case, he was imitating pro-wrestling moves, and body slammed his foster sister, or something similar, I believe).

I would be more comfortable with the sentence if they were 18. It’s still an arbitrary point (and one that doesn’t really jive with the science), but in addition to the adult consequences, they also have the rights and responsibilities (or at least most of them)of an adult.

It’s that incongruity that bothers me. How do we turn around and tell them they have to accept the full adult consequence of their judgment when it comes to a crime, when we’ve already told them their judgment is suspect when it comes to drinking, or sex, or legal contracts.

Okay, so we don’t incarcerate-for-life juveniles who have committed a capital crime. However, if a juvenile is “unaware of what they were doing,” how do we protect society from future thoughtlessness? Adults convicted by-reason-of-insanity are institutionalized; shouldn’t juveniles convicted of a capital crime also be institutionalized for something longer than a couple of years?

“Oh, but they are only children.” Well, kids can shoot a gun just as easily as an adult. They can also be more reckless than an adult. When drug dealers know they can hide their stash in the pockets of a juvenile, because juvies often get softer punishments for possession, you know the justice system has been tricked.

Who put the nickel in mnblrmkr? It’s like fighting for fighting’s sake at this point.

The first session day after the start of spring is “Dilly Bar Day” in the House.
Warren Buffet thanks you.

Well, thank God for anonymous commentors who can knock him back into line.

Dilly bars!

Here’s one for a caption contest.

F*ck.

Ah hell, go here.

If you don’t like *unverified* comments then I guess you shouldn’t offer the option of anonymity.

lionel tate claimed he was imitating pro-wrestling moves. the autopsy revealed something much different. he’s now doing 30 yrs for armed robbery. certainly just imitating billy the kid.

none of us would want to live in a society where there was no deviation from the letter of the law, ever. it goes both ways. that’s why we pay judges, prosecutors, defense attorneys, and psychologists the big bucks. to use their best judgement and make tough decisions.

“But, if 17 years old is old enough to bear the consequences of adulthood, isn’t it old enough to bear the rewards? That’s David’s point, I think.”

I understand what he’s trying to say, but it’s just sort of weak.
There’s inconsistency in law all over the place. Hell, you just gave an example KC with the military/drinking thing. My point (or opinion) is that when a murderer is convicted, all bets are off. A new chapter opens. We don’t give a shit if you can’t vote or live on your own, you just killed a young boy and his mother. Of all the places to worry about consistency, this is like the last place that needs to be looked at.

It’s fu**ing murder for crap’s sake.

I’m with Sandburg: Ditto on Dilly Bars.

Actually, those waffle bowl sundaes are pure sugar/crap food ecstasy.

I’d never had a Dilly Bar until I came here. DQ isn’t a big deal in Iowa.

I just like Warren Buffet.

Dilly bars are good.

that’s why we pay judges, prosecutors, defense attorneys, and psychologists the big bucks. to use their best judgement and make tough decisions.

Uhm no we don’t pay them big bucks. The public defenders, certainly don’t. Not to mention that they’re facing major cut backs again. Public defenders are handling 2-3 times the reccomended case load.

baker, yes, there are inconsitancies in the law. That doesn’t mean we should simply accept them and not try to addres them.

Iowa has LeMars: Ice Cream Capital of the World.

Maybe Warren Buffet will adopt me. It could happen.

Sorry there’s not more competition, but Miller’s deserves a prize. I’ll consider new entries through Sunday.

sarcasm, dude.

What is wrong with people? I thought a bunch of MNspeakers had mad Photoshop skillz. Bring it!

a couple neighborhood kids are running around in my yard. i want to tell them to scram. they’re good kids, but i don’t need one of them cracking his skull open and suing me. man, i’m old.

@miller: I don’t use Photoshop as part of my day job. My contribution won’t get started until I get home this evening.

Sheletta’s doing the monologue on Almanac tonight about AIG. That’ll be highly missable.

God in Heaven!

DouglasG must be off today, he’s a photo-shoppy kinda guy. Me? I couldn’t find the photo you were talking about to photoshop, and I don’t know how anyway. But I do like contests.

Jane my challenge was to alter the first image Max links to in the post.

If you don’t like *unverified* comments then I guess you shouldn’t offer the option of anonymity.

Just because it’s allowed doesn’t mean it’s super-cool. Assholism is not particularly appreciated, anonymous or otherwise, bnut, if you’re tempted to call yourself “wah,” chances are you already know you’re getting ready to be a bit of a dick.

Miller wins! Miller, drop me a line via my website “contact me” form with contact info and I’ll dispatch a US postal officer with your prize or give to you in person if it turns out you live across the street.

Thanks Kurtis. I’ll “contact you” soon.

I hope I do live across the street! Are you that reclusive guy in the blue bungalow who doesn’t seem to leave the house except to let the dog out into the back yard? If so, how do you get food?