Secrets of the City

I wandered around incessantly when I was a kid, biking to Uptown, roaming around downtown, and even flying back and forth to New York by myself. But, then, there were also frequent incidents of my parents panicking and calling local hospitals when I didn’t come home when expected.

I lived by lake harriet and my friends and I would take the bus, make a transfer and skateboard at the university. I remember once we missed a transfer and had to call collect to our parents for a ride. They were not exactly thrilled at how far we had roamed.

I moved out of S. Minneapolis when I was nine. Can’t remember my exact age when we started riding the bus but it was at least the summer before then.

About the time I turned 10 I did whatever I wanted most of the time. I’d say that in general other kids also were “free range.” What weirds me about about how involved parents seem to now be involved in their kids’ lives is that as a kid I didn’t want my parents around all the time.

there’s some free range kids in my ‘hood that could use an ounce of supervision.

I can’t compare my time growing up to anyone who grew up in the city, but I grew up on a farm with about 6,000 different ways to kill myself and spent days wandering around unsupervised. I also went to Kindergarten in a decent sized town and used to walk to school with friends unsupervised every day.
Parent seem overprotective to me, but I can’t judge as I don’t have kids of my own.

Well, Esme better watch out, because one of the companion pieces made it very clear that the Police Chief here takes a very dim view of the practice.

I had very little supervision as a child. Once when I was really little, like 4 or 5, me and my brother were wondering around the woods behind our house in Brooklyn Park. I decided to climb a tree and somehow ended up upside down with my foot caught in the crook of the tree.

My brother, then 2 or 3, had to find his way home and get my mom then find his way back to where I was. Awesome parenting skills there Mom.

I don’t recall any adult supervision. Growing up in a Woodbury that was just started the process of bad urban planning we had a thousand different ways to kill ourselves – from drowning in the pond to falling two stories in houses under construction. Heck I walked to school from age 7 to the time I got a car at 16.

There are lots of kids in my neighborhood who run free. There is a house that has people over to play Volleyball almost every night and they all bring their kids who run free. We often see kids just out of diapers playing in the parking lot across the street using the cars as a jungle gym.

And there is the drug dealer who has been around for a couple summers. He’s about 14 and just roams, hangs out with 30 year olds, sells drugs, and doesn’t go to school. I call the cops on him often, but he always moves from where he is before the cops can show up.

@kc!, do you live on Monroe? That volleyball house looks like a lot of fun.

I grew up in Richfield near a Augsburg Park and Wood Lake Nature Center, and was free to bike all around the city at age 9 or 10. My little brother and I were allowed to roam in a 5 block radius or so, so long as we were together, as early as 1st grade (for me, kindergarten for him).

Before then we were in Powderhorn, and allowed free range on our block, but couldn’t cross the main streets unless a big kid was with us.

No kids yet but I hope to grant them similar freedoms.

All fine and good. To each their own. I think a lot of parents are overprotective and insane. That said, there are more crazy f*cks out there these days than in the good old days, and even though the media blows it completely out of proportion, it’s not like there’s no danger from predators and assorted pervs and weirdos. Parents need to use common sense. Don’t overreact and always hover like a helicopter, but don’t trust the “village” to watch your kids and take care of them, because, by and large, most people don’t want to be responsible for watching your kids, and there are truly some awful dangers out there. Personally, I’d rather err a little on the side of “overprotective” than face the horrifying (if admittedly unlikely) alternative. But I don’t believe in lecturing other parents – much, anyway.

jerad- no, the house is on Nicollet and doesn’t look like a lot of fun. They paved their backyard and put up a volleyball net. They play with soccer balls. And are very bad and clearly don’t know the rules.

For me, and my neighborhood friends, there was little adult supervision growing up. It’s true, though, that many mothers did not work (ca. 1960s) or only worked part-time, so there was always a mother or two in the neighborhood should adult help be needed.

Maybe that’s the difference between now and then: Now, when kids are free-roaming, there isn’t that implied adult neighborhood presence that existed when my generation roamed free. Knowing some adults were around served both to comfort us and control us.

Moving to Tokyo was, for a teenager like me, a whole ‘nuther, mind-blowing matter. The city was considered so safe, and mass transit so readily available, that our parents’ only requirement was having a phone number contact if we spent a Friday or Saturday night roaming the city with friends before crashing at someone’s house at dawn.

I hear it’s a bit different there now, though, with more concern for drugs and crimes (and terrorist threats) in Tokyo that didn’t exist there in the ’70s. However, my niece and her classmates walked the 15-miles back to school in the middle of the night after their Senior Dinner in downtown Tokyo — a new Senior tradition we did not have when I went to school there. It’s not officially sanctioned by the school but the vice-principal welcomes the students back in the morning with breakfast in the school cafeteria.

that house on monroe with the volleyball nets (i think it’s foot volleyball or something they play) does not look like fun to me. it looks like a giant pain in the ass for the neighbors. the block gets jam packed with cars and people x times a week.

I never remember having a babysitter. I know for sure I was roaming around south Mpls alone around by the age of 6 or so. My dad always worked in Chicago, and flew back on the weekends and my mom was a designer who would go to work at a studio or a theater during the day and my younger sister and I were always left alone to do whatever we wanted. I don’t think people were so paranoid back then, despite the fact that our neighborhood was sort of a hotbed for perverts. I think I was flashed and/or almost kidnapped at least four times in or around the Longfellow neighborhood in the 80s.

I spent my entire childhood in the woods, and only came home to eat when they blew the secret whistle. Of course, I was in Eau Claire, where it was quite safe. It pains me to see how kids are raised these days–raised by the TV and PC. When we have kids, I want to buy a house outside of the city that has woods.

cubbie, are they hmong?

that would be my *guess* but i don’t know.

and i’m not saying they cause trouble or anything like that. i just think “wow, that would suck living next door to that.”

It’s questions like this that make me thankfull Mrs. Lungs and I never had kids.

We are both overprotective as Hell with our little dog, which probably offers a clue to how we might be as parents.

We walked to school in a huge herd. All of the kids in my hood. We’d pick up more as we passed their houses. If there was trouble, head for a “Blue Star” home — which never happened.

Kids may be naive, but they aren’t stupid. We coddle them longer than ever, even as they mature more quickly. Are their minds not developing as fast as their bodies?

Here is Michael Chabon’s take on this very subject.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/22891

I saw him speak at the U around the time Kavalier and Clay was released and he told a very similar story.

Short Excerpt:

The thing that strikes me now when I think about the Wilderness of Childhood is the incredible degree of freedom my parents gave me to adventure there. A very grave, very significant shift in our idea of childhood has occurred since then. The Wilderness of Childhood is gone; the days of adventure are past. The land ruled by children, to which a kid might exile himself for at least some portion of every day from the neighboring kingdom of adulthood, has in large part been taken over, co-opted, colonized, and finally absorbed by the neighbors.

Well, I can’t but look at it this way, personally…this is just for me, I’m not telling anybody else how to parent or run their lives…but…

Odds of my child being abducted or otherwise getting hurt (self-inflicted, even) if I’m not watching over him: very low

Odds if I AM watching him: pretty much zero.

So I guess that’s the deal – I’m not personally comfortable with “very low” odds of danger when it comes to my child’s safety. I want it to be “pretty much zero.” And I’m not telling anybody else that they’re bad parents because they make a different decision, but then, don’t tell me how to make my decisions either. And no, I don’t think anybody can make their child 100% safe (mine had to get stitches over the winter due to an accident at home, so I’m under no illusions there). But if I want to add a layer of safety by being a tad overprotective, that too is my right as a parent. And I don’t think it’s gonna make my child turn out bad either, but if you want to think so, go for it.

Child abductions by strangers are more rare than children getting hit by lightening.

Are you worried that 1 in 5 children will have autistic disorders? or 1 in 1,000,000 are abducted by strangers.

I would take a hard look at your spouse! They are most likely to snatch your child.

I’m not advocating for you to instruct your children to accept rides from strangers or be completely unsupervised but I think children need to explore and imagine on their own.

The rates of child abductins hasn’t changed just the reporting of it.

I let my child explore and imagine on his own plenty – I just watch him while he does it. He’s only 3. I’ll probably lighten up a bit as he gets older. I also make him wear a helmet if he goes outside. Kidding. Yeah, I’m real worried that my wife will abduct our child. Great advice. Thanks. Frankly, I don’t get this whole business of telling other people that their fears aren’t legitimate. If I wanna be a nervous ninny about my kid, what’s it to you? Seriously. How is it any of your business?

I was allowed to ride my bike around the block and to the corner and back once it got dark. I could walk about 4-5 blocks to the park if I went with someone. I started taking the bus downtown to work when I was 11 or 12.

As long as you equip your kids with some street smarts and a means to get back home and you’re sure they know how to use it and that they are somewhat capable of fending for themselves or seeking help where they are headed. I think that’s really what matters most.

I mean, look at all the people OVER 18 who manage to get themselves into stupid predicaments involving strangers. It’s not about age, it’s about instilling common sense.

I never had a curfew but automatically checked in with my family. My mom let me go backstage at rock concerts when I was 14 or so and I came home reeking of pot, cigs and/or alcohol (even though I consumed none). I think she was okay with this because she’d let me fend for myself early on and drilled street smarts into my head. My mom also let me watch R movies in elementary school because she’d rather explain things to me herself then let me learn misinformation from who knows where.

In fact, I still generally let my mom know if I’ll be going out. I don’t know why and she has often questioned why I apologize for not letting her know where I am since I am damn near 30. I just do because it’s generally a good idea for someone to have some idea where I am just.

My mom was just the perfect level of protective. That said, I’d be fearful to attempt to replicate what she did because I don’t trust kids nor myself not to fuck it up, even though I didn’t.

Don’t tell ME how to raise your children. I’ll raise them any way I damn well please!

If the odds of a child being hit by lightning are greater than those of being abducted, then I would definitely keep the kids away indoors during any thunderstorm. Keep them away, too, from any electrical outlet or the phone because a lightning strike even blocks away will carry through the wiring.

It’s our perception of threats more than any reality that drives us to worry so much. There were children being abducted when I was a child; kids got hit by cars, too, crossing the street.

A child has a far great chance of being molested by a relative or a neighbor than they do by a stranger.

Baker: secret whistle??

Mmmmyeah…

I have a half-dozen older siblings, so I was allowed to go with them wherever they were allowed to go. Bike/walk to the store a few blocks away, Lake Harriet a mile a way, whatever. I don’t recall ever telling my parents where we were going, but possibly the older kids did.

Being the youngest is kinda nice.

If I wanna be a nervous ninny about my kid, what’s it to you? Seriously. How is it any of your business?

Only when your nervous ninny-ness interferes with other people who aren’t so nervous raising their kids. Like people who call child protection and whatnot over stupid shit or insist on legislating everything.

I live across the street from a park and I think the biggest threat to the kids that play unsupervised is the number of cars that speed.

I’ve seen a few times where a kid has almost gotten hit because they run across the street without looking or they are playing on a low traffic street and someone blasts down it at 45.

I almost got into a fight with a guy two days ago for yelling “Slow down”, he was speeding and took the corner so fast he was driving in the wrong lane.

That said “Maybe because she has literally seen it all,WCCO-TV news reporter Esme Murphy believes …”

Either Esme can back me up on the story or reporter KATE McCARTHY doesn’t understand words.

Baker: secret whistle??

It was in a range normal people and dogs couldn’t hear.

If he demonstrated it for you, he’d have to kill you.

“Only when your nervous ninny-ness interferes with other people who aren’t so nervous raising their kids. Like people who call child protection and whatnot over stupid shit or insist on legislating everything.”

It doesn’t. I don’t do that. I would, however, call child protection if I saw a child being abused. Is that being “overprotective”? “Insist on legislating everything” huh? Like seatbelts? Which save more lives than any other safety measure in our entire society?

In general, I’m with Anonymous….I’m worried about stuff like this more than predators:
http://tinyurl.com/nogxld

Or is that “stupid shit” that I should be unconcerned with?

I never said everyone had to be as nervous as me. But there are dangers to kids out there, they’re not all “made up by the media” to “scare us all,” and I have every right as a parent to be a tad concerned, especially in the summer, about the safety of my young children.

It doesn’t. I don’t do that. I would, however, call child protection if I saw a child being abused. Is that being “overprotective”? “Insist on legislating everything” huh? Like seatbelts? Which save more lives than any other safety measure in our entire society?

No, like advertising on TV and whatnot.

And yes, just because there are child molesters and predators out there doesn’t mean that unrelated stuff that parents freak out about isn’t stupid. No, I would not like to run down the list of everything you are afraid of.

my old man used to throw a railroad tie in the street to force the neighborhood teens to slow it down. at the time i thought he was crazy, but now that i have a 3yr old the thought has crossed my mind.

Dan, the article you link to had the kids being supervised by an adult. So you won’t let your kids walk on the street even with a family member? That’s overprotection to the finest.

No, KC, I won’t let my kids walk on the street even with a family member. Never. Nope, my kids actually aren’t allowed out of their bedrooms. Not even out of their beds, to be honest. Way too dangerous. Way to nail my point on the head. That was exactly what I was getting at. Bravo. A fine bit of compare/contrast on your part. Keep up the great investigative work.

I think my point is that your link is exactly the stupid shit people shouldn’t worry about. The kids were with an adult and it is going to happen if you watch them or not.

I don’t think it is any individual parenting decision that is in question I think it is a general feeling that kids are never outside or have the freedom from structured activity.

I also think that because of smaller families parents are more protective. If you have 1 kid and something happens it maked you look like a bad parent. If you have 6 kids and one goes bad that is still a good success rate.

@Dan: But home is the most dangerous place to be. You should let the kids out once in a while or they’ll grow up all pasty white and a-scared of everything.

I do have to say 3 is way too young to be left alone.

I feel very enlightened by all of this sage parenting advice, all of it from people I don’t personally know at all, and many of whom aren’t even parents themselves. Rest assured, it’s all being carefully filed away (flush).

lol, the secret whistle was just a whistle that had been passed from family generation to generation. When it was blown we knew it was time for dinner. Seriously, I would be gone in the woods an entire day, coming home only for lunch and dinner.

Letting your child grow on their own is important. I am not sure though I would raise my kids even close to how I was raised, especially in the city of Minneapolis. I think I want to move out of the city to have kids.

“it’s all being carefully filed away (flush).”

I suggest filing it next to your child’s reading helmet.

The block i grew up on is here. Look at this beautiful patch of woods that runs along the nature drive owned by the university!

This is sort of what I want for my kids.

Baker’s whistle is a good idea, and here’s a nice photo.

Dan I., you probably have a ready supply of these, right? If I have kids, I’ll embarrass them by blasting that out the backdoor come dinnertime.

Good for Esme Murphy. Anyone know what neighborhood of South Mpls she lives in? I see she has a paranoid neighbor – hope that those people are in the minority. How do people think their kids are going to grow into adults if they don’t give them a chance to grow up? I’ve seen some of the debates about this, and there are even parents out there who won’t drop their kid off at the mall (let alone – gasp – let them join the great unwashed by taking a bus to the mall) when they’re in the early to mid-teens! My son is going to learn how to navigate the city, with increasing amounts of responsibility and freedoms as he grows older and can handle it. For now he’s still a toddler, so we’re just working on walking without a stroller and not running into the street. By the time he’s in junior high he’s going to know how to take a bus, and by high school he can go wherever he wants, although there will be limits on how late he can be out.

“I feel very enlightened by all of this sage parenting advice, all of it from people I don’t personally know at all, and many of whom aren’t even parents themselves. Rest assured, it’s all being carefully filed away (flush).”

Who is offering you advice? People are sharing their viewpoints on how they experienced being raised and/or are raising their children. Dude, get off your high horse. We all may not have been parents but we were all raised by someone.

I don’t give a flying flip how you raise your kids as long as it doesn’t interfere with other people raising their kids and vice versa.

But yeah, don’t have any idea about how you’d raise your kids if you don’t have any actual kids.

Noted.

Murphy said in the article that she’d been “questioned” by others about allowing her 10-year old to play tennis alone and walk to the deli; I’m not sure what I’d say if some busy-body said something like that to me, but I think it would be something rather rude.

“Don’t tell ME how to raise your children. I’ll raise them any way I damn well please!”

Wondering if this is a mistake post or meant to be funny in a way I don’t quite get but still laught at.

Rainy can be kind of funny sometimes; I think it was written that way deliberately. Either way it’s funny.

Rain Doggy can be very funny when the mood strikes her. Also very naughty. Usually both.

I just call Child Services on Raindog for raising my kids incorrectly.

Minesota may have scaredy-cat parents. At least we aren’t Virginia:

I know someone who would probably let the air out of the tires of someone parenting poorly. (Hi Maz!)

I was pretty much allowed to roam free in my neighborhood, too. But it was Sioux Falls in the 80’s so there really wasn’t much in the way of getting yourself into too much trouble.

Except for the time a friend and I decided to walk home from school when we were in the 6th grade. Fine idea, except for school was about 10 miles away…we had to call my friend’s grandmother about halfway there. My mother was PISSED.

I was pretty much allowed to roam free in my neighborhood, too. But it was Sioux Falls in the 80’s so there really wasn’t much in the way of getting yourself into too much trouble.

Unless you whistled at someone outside the family.

Fuck you.

When I visit my parents in Fargo, I’m astounded by the number of kids that get driven or bused to the elementary school that I went to from blocks that my classmates walked to school from.

In fact, when I was in grade school, I don’t even remember there seeing a school bus except for field trips.

@mnblrmkr: For whatever reason, the rule governing school distance has changed so it’s not really the parents who are particularly to blame. In my day, after second grade, you could walk to school if you lived within a 4-block radius.

How timely: It looks like the city might be safer for kids after all?

in roseville you only get bused if you live more than 1/2 mile from school for the little kids, over 2 miles for the big kids.  so, they expect you to do a little walking.

There are a lot of buses, but there are a lot of kids that get dropped off in the family vehicle too.