Secrets of the City

I’m curious as to whether this would have hurt or helped Franken if Norm had grabbed hold of it.

“Didn’t Coleman make the case when he was ahead that were he behind, he would step down?”

He did, but Team Coleman has since recanted, offering something akin to Dan White’s infamious “Twinkie defense” — that when Coleman made the comment about the candidate who was trailing at the end of the process should “step aside” for the good of state/nation/democracy was made after a long period without sleep.

aka: “Damnit, I didn’t think I would be ME!”

This race/recount has had many twists and turns, but this may signal the end of Norm’s political career. Or not.

rather:

aka: “Damnit, I didn’t think it would be ME!”

My bad. I haven’t had much sleep lately…

Mary Landrieu was seated as legal battles continued … Norm’s full o’ crap.

MinnPost’s Eric Black counts down the possibilities here.

This is embarrassing. If Franken wins and we end up with more votes from precints (that surprise, favor him) than voters that signed in plus absentee ballots, like they did in the ‘04 gubenatorial election in Washingtonstolen election for gov it is sad.  Was expected though when Franken got the same lawyer.  Although also no surprise, people here will not whine about the election being stolen even though they do for 2000 FL and 2004 Ohio.

Once the board certifies the results, it’ll be an uphill battle for Norm. I cannot see how any lawsuit would overturn the recount.

To compare this to FLA 2000 is a complete joke and would only be made by an intellectually stunted individual. The State of MN has followed the rules they set up. When issues arose that were not covered or seemed to make sense they were addressed with the idea to count every proper ballot. See here in Minnesota we like people to vote and we like to count the votes. Not go to the Supreme Court to cut off the recount before it is finished.

As for the duplicate ballots. So what would you propose that we do? Toss out all the ballots in that precinct?

Oh, here’s the quote: If you asked me what I would do, I would step back. I just think the healing process is so important. The possibility of any change of this magnitude in the voting system we have would be so remote — that would be my judgment. Mr. Franken will decide what Mr. Franken will do.

An opinion piece in the WSJ is anti-Franken? Say it ain’t so!

People are indeed complaining that Franken stole the election, some of them right here and even more on the Strib site. They can whine all they want, but to then insist that “nobody is whining” is one of those baffling self-contradictory things commenters do, like commenting on a story in the Star Tribune that it won’t report on whatever the story is about.

Here’s MPR’s Bob Collins on the “MN is the new FL” thang, Dougie_D.

He has a point (and not just atop his head).

Q: We’re the new Florida now, aren’t we?

A: Yes. What made Florida Florida in 2000 was that it became the butt of jokes. Minnesota has become the butt of jokes, the facts be damned. We can try to tell ourselves that we’ve had an open recount process and that nobody has uncovered evidence of wrongdoing, but people outside of Minnesota don’t care. Perception is reality.

Perception may be reality, but the fact remains that there has really been only a roughly 1000 vote swing in favor of Franken since the morning after election day. That’s fairly minor when you consider how much the certified vote totals usually change between the total announced on election night and what gets certified. We just never paid attention before since it usually doesn’t change who wins.

And I’ll admit it, I was surprised to see Franken pull ahead. But even more surprised to see how many mistakes are made in the first round of counting. And somewhat gratified to see the lengths to which the state goes to count those votes that were missed — even if those efforts are spurred by partisan interests.

Just to clarify, I don’t know that Norm Coleman has said he’ll fight (other than the current pending Supreme Court issue over the rejected absentee votes that remain). His attorney has said he’d recommend that Coleman take it to court. But we’ll see what Norm Coleman decides.

I think the recount has been spectacularly done… and the results are as accurate as you can get when you’re dealing with separate elections in thousands of precincts… and thousands of people. I try to count 52 cards to make sure the whole deck is still there, and I get a different answer each time.

With his odds of returning to the Senate fading, Norm’s best course may be to gracefully concede (while allowing his surragates and the GOP echo chamber to scream foul), take the bows for ending this mess with a little decorum, and lay the groundwork for a rematch, or perhaps a shot at Pawlenty’s gig, if T-Paw decides not to run again.

One thing I’ve learned, is that if Republicans are good at projecting their own actions onto other people.

There were lots of complaints about Franken going to court to change the rules in his favor in the middle of the process. But,just as with Bush in Florida 2000, it’s been Norm that keeps going back to the courts to try to stop/change the process.

The only thing I ever heard Coleman vow to fight for was preserving the sanctity of marriage as a bond between a man, woman and several moderately priced call girls.

Jason, while Norm himself hasn’t commented, I think his attorneys have gone quite a bit further than say that they would “recommend” that Norm take it to court. I’m pretty sure I saw the word “guarantee” in the comments by a couple of them.

I’d second that. MPR had a statement from the attorneys this morning that stated as much.

“…and several moderately priced call girls.”

Well, Norm is a fiscal conservative.

Here’s MPR’s Bob Collins on the “MN is the new FL” thang, Dougie_D.

“Perception is reality.”

I’m not sure how anyone in the News business can say this with a straight face and not be fired immediately. 

He should change his title to chief propagandist.  Also perception is not equal to reality and as soon as we start dispelling this bullshit the closer we come to a fair and transparent society.

Wasn’t it Norm that didn’t want any of the additional absentee ballots counted and now that he is behind he wants to count more?

Does this guy have any honor at all?

And, the Supremes reject Norm’s attempt to get his ballots thrown into the mix.

I’m not sure how anyone in the News business can say this with a straight face and not be fired immediately.

Sorry Dougie. I’m going to have to agree with Bob. Truth, facts and reality are very different things. People make their own realities and base them on a combination of what they perceive. For example, the reality Michael Brodkorb exists in is dramatically different than the one I inhabit. Doesn’t make it any less valid for each of us — just different. But if you can come up with a real definition of truth that works for everyone, let me know. Bonus points and a job teaching philosophy at the U if you can come up with one for beauty while you’re at it.

Collins can be a pain in the rear, but as MPR’s Blogger in Chief, he is more akin to a columnist than a news reporter, Dougie_D.

In this case, I appreciate his candor. He’s right, too. It’s easy to understand how people outside of Minnesota — or inside, if they have not been paying close attention — can believe we are “another Florida.”

Everyone sees “the facts” through their own filters. It’s part of human nature — and it’s always been part of the news business.

For example, the reality Michael Brodkorb exists in is dramatically different than the one I inhabit.

Tru dat, Rich. There are fewer flying monkeys and tinfoil hats in your reality.

And, the Supremes reject Norm’s attempt to get his ballots thrown into the mix.

Hear that sound? It’s the Fat Lady, clearing her throat.

Can anyone dispute the claims in that WSJ Op/Ed?

I sort of feel like votes shouldn’t be counted twice. And if you’re going to apply election night ballot counts (in the case of the extra ballots) as a result in one place, you should do that in all places.

This seems fairly logical to me.

I guess I will have to resign myself to the fact that idiots and morons make up the vast majority or the population. Why do we have to accept that people that are so damaged emotionally as Brodkrob have valid viewpoints? Shouldn’t people like Collins be working to dispel these ideas that everyone’s opinion is valid and holds the same value?

When did we become simpering moronic partisan idiots that will believe everything we hear from one side and nothing we hear from the other?

A: Yes. What made Florida Florida in 2000 was that it became the butt of jokes. Minnesota has become the butt of jokes, the facts be damned.

What made Florida Florida was an extremely flawed process not that people were making jokes about it.  Bob Collins has lost his mind.  He should step down, obviously all the fiberglass epoxy from building that plane has destroyed his mind.

When did we become simpering moronic partisan idiots that will believe everything we hear from one side and nothing we hear from the other?

Some of us have always been that way. It’s nothing new.  Personally, I have little use for uber partisans from either side, but I seek out different political and idealogical viewpoints in my effort to be a better informed citizen.

I think that Collins, like some others in the state, feel a little defensive about what they read and hear in out-state and national media on this issue.  The jokes hurt his pride in our state, and it’s history of clean and fair elections.

I’ll talk to Bob C. about switching to a low VOC epoxy.

So instead of refuting the claims that we are the new Florida he just acquieses?

Bob Collins has little say in how out-of-state media, talking heads, bloggers and columnists say about us.

The News Cut on the MPR website (and his Twitter friends) is Bob’s own little kngdom. If you want his views, you can find them there.

He can’t wave a magic wand and change the world overnight…you do you think he is, Obama?

I don’t seek out a variety of viewpoints. I seek out any single viewpoint that’s based on evidence and reason. It ain’t easy to even find one of them, most of the time, so it seems selfish to expect more.

Jesus is the reason for the season.

I just wish Jesus would update his blog more, or at least DM me on Twitter.

Breaking news: “Lighting strikes American Lung Association building in Saint Paul, killing one”

Jesus did try to DM you on Twittter, Bob. His message just got caught in the SPAM filter is all.

Especially if Jesus spells Twitter with Three T’s. Sheesh.

That’s how it’s spelled in Aramaic.

Coleman says a court challenge is inevitable.

“And Jesus said unto thee: Go forth and tweettt and I will DM those worthy of my Werd.”

Twittter 13:37

The Lamb of God delivers his DM to justpbob, in person.

Knaak: “The fact that the Franken campaign now rejects the notion of every valid vote being counted…”

Wasn’t the point of the original court ruling that the county boards would identify the absentee ballots that were wrongly rejected. After those were identifed, the campaigns were then each given a veto over the boards’ decision.

What Coleman is asking is that their self identified ballots be tossed into that mix.

Even if a court were to agree in an election contest, I don’t see how it’s going to help him, because if they give Norm the oopportunity to include his self identified ballots, they’re going to have to give Franken the same opportunity. Ultimately, they’ll at minimum, cancel each other out. Possibly, even increase Franken’s lead, because based on the results of the recount, Franken’s team is much better at identifying challenges that will be upheld.

More Knaak: “The Minnesota Supreme Court has made sure that an election contest will need to be filed quickly in order to ensure that an accurate and valid recount can be achieved.”

Just a couple of weeks ago, the Coleman camp was yelling that Franken’s people were impugning the integrity and hard work of the MN election workers.

Now, they’re trying to claim that the system that produced one of the most open and transparent recounts conducted is broken and invalid.

As I said above, if the GOP is complaining that Democrats are doing something, it’s a pretty good bet that they’re the ones actually doing it.

While taking care to allways blame “the Franken campaign,” Team Coleman is, in fact, questioning the rulings of the canvasing board, the Secretary of State AND the Minnesota Supreme Court.

At some point, this path may become counterproductive to Coleman and his party, but for now, anything that questions the validity of a Franken win, and keeps the senate seat empty as long as possible during the first 100 days of the Obama administration, is seen as a “win.”

It sounds like money for lawyers is not a problem for Norm — yet.

Norm closes his offices.

Jason’s Station has just reported that Franken has been certified the winner by the canvasing board, as expected.

Let the right wing blogosphere bloviating begin in earnest!

It’s headlines like this from Reuters, “Democrat wins Minnesota US Senate seat in recount” that Team Coleman was worried about, as they feed the preception (and we all know, perception is reality) that all is settled, and Al is ready to fly to Washington.

This headline is more to their liking, I would think.

It’s also a little more acurate and informative, IMHO.

bob, the whole issue of perception is that to some people it will NEVER be settled. He was declared the winner and to put a modifier in it that it is not yet over is speculation and really has no place in news reporting.

Tomorrow should be exciting: The Independent is reporting that Democrats are going to try and seat Franken.

Technically, Franken has only reached the first stage of being declared the winner. There are other things that must happen in Washington, too, for his win to be official.

Normally, these stages are invisible and without controversy in an average election.

But this aint no average election.

I don’t think that it is wrong for reporters to give readers a “heads up” that a court challenge — and even a challenge from Senate Republicans — may yet happen.

I hate to admit it, but at this point, I just don’t care. They could put a chimpanzee in that seat and I’d be happy to just have it done with…

I doubt that they could do that, max, without a signed certificate from both Pawlenty and Richie, as the law requires. I can’t see either doing that until the six day “challenge period” is over.

If they do try, I don’t think they will be doing Mr. Franken or Senate democrats a favor — it is the kind of thing that could blow up in their faces.

They could put a chimpanzee in that seat and I’d be happy to just have it done with…

We have had worse representatives in Washington, aliecat.

At least the poo flinging would be both literal and figurative!

bob, Senate rules do not require that a person have an election certificate in hand before they can be seated (recommended, but not required), so I believe that the Senate COULD attempt to accept him no that the canvassing board has completed its work.

And as was pointed out above, there are a number of precedents where a declared winner was seated before all election contests were dealt with.

the Supremes reject Norm’s attempt to get his ballots thrown into the mix.

STOP…in the name of love

fivethirtyeight takes apart the WSJ editorial.

God Bless you Paul. Redeemed at last!

Coleman sacked by Page. Go Vikes!

Best headline on the topic I have seen yet: “Al Franken is a Big Fat Senator.”

heh.

Harry Reid:

“Norm Coleman will never ever serve [again] in the Senate,” Reid told Politico’s Manu Raju. “He lost the election. He can stall things, but he’ll never serve in the Senate.”

They also will NOT attempt to seat Franken today.

Never say “never,” Harry.

They used to say a black guy could never be elected President.

fivethirtyeight on the situation:

Let’s be frank: Norm Coleman doesn’t have much of a future in electoral politics. Defeated Presidential candidates sometimes have nine lives, but defeated Senatorial candidates rarely do, and in his career running for statewide office, Coleman has lost to a professional wrestler, beaten a dead guy, and then tied a comedian. He doesn’t have much to lose by fighting this to its bitter conclusion. But it’s hard to envision how he’ll come up with enough ballots to overtake Franken.

Bob, as David Sedaris said before the election, “Maybe the country never will elect a black president, but maybe half of America will elect a half-black president.”

David Sedaris For Senate! Hey, he’s funnier than Franken. But then again, so am I.

Coleman has lost to a professional wrestler, beaten a dead guy, and then tied a comedian..

Ventura was working as an actor at the time he won, Mondale is still alive, and the vote was never ‘tied.”

As a matter of statistics (and Nate is a statistician), bob, anything within the margin of error would be considered tied.

Good point. Unlike Coleman, I concede.

I understand Bob and Rich, I think, to be asserting the fact that some Minnesotans are going to be embarrassed that people out of state are making jokes about us. But hey, don’t we have the Coen brothers, Jesse Ventura, the crazy Lakeville lady at the McCain rally and Michelle Bachman to thank for that?

@justbob: Mondale ran as a surrogate of Paul Wellstone … who was most definitely dead.

Yes, but he would have served as Senator Mondale (not Senator Surrogate or Wellstone’s Ghost), voting the way his heart and experience led him, just as he did when he stepped into HHH’s empty Senate seat, after LBJ tapped him to be VP.

Sheesh Bob, so literal today!

I know! What a jerk! I blame (you know what).

Arne Carlson calls for Coleman to concede.

As a matter of statistics (and Nate is a statistician), bob, anything within the margin of error would be considered tied.

Since all of the votes were counted, there is no margin of error. That’s would only be true if you randomly counted some fraction of the votes.

Any counting or measuring system has an inherent margin of error, even if you’re counting the entire population.

By the way, it’s now official — Coleman has contested the election/recount results.

Yes. Votes will be miscounted. That’s just the nature of human and mechanical error. I wonder if Coleman’s goal is to throw so much doubt on the system that he can force a recount. Since Franken’s success is well below the margin of error, he essentially won a coin toss (which is fine, because had the votes been perfectly matched, it would have gone to a coin toss anyway.) Perhaps Coleman wants the coin tossed again, to the tune of another $200k.

Seems like a hell of a long shot, though. Maybe it’s just that he’s a lawyer and his first impulse is to go to court.

I think it’s more likely he is desperate. He knows the writing is on the wall. His days as a “player” in national politics are over.

Besides, Laurie’s family has a lot of money. Why do you think he married her (beard) in the first place?

Well, I hear she did invent one helluva blow/suck machine.

All the more likely when you have to deal with things like voter intent, or whether or not an absentee ballot meets the criteria for rejection.

You should also realize the votes are an imperfect sampling of a larger population. Run this election over even once, and you’ll get a different result (not necessarily a different winner, but the vote totals won’t be the same).

An AP article has this line:

The costs of the election lawsuit fall to the losing campaign, although state law could require various units of government to foot the bill if their errors or irregularities lead to a reversal.

Why should Al Franken have to pay  for Coleman’s lawsuit if the results were to be overturned? Wouldn’t the state or the SOS be the defendent in this case? The canvassing board is the entity that certified the count, not Al Franken.

Speaking of stats, here’s what I learned via google.

Search for “Coleman is a douche bag” yields 31,700 hits
Search for “Franken is a douche bag” yields 24,100 hits
Search for “Minnesota Senate Race is all fucked up” yields 5,590 hits.

Results are not scientific

To be fair, there are a lot more Colemans than Frankens. Redo the search with “norm coleman is a douche” and “al franken is a douche”.

Lets face it, Minnesota isn’t electing or re-electing a Statesman.

You have a point. Apparently a lot of people dislike Gary of Diff’rent Strokes.

Results 1 – 10 of about 53,100 for Minnesota Laughingstock.

Results 1 – 10 of about 77,800 for Minnesota Laughing Stock.

I think even Gary hates Gary.

FTR Rat is a douche bag is double the hits of Kurtis is a douchebag.

But the Kurtis is a douche bag numbers are still unsettling.

“Rat is a douche bag is double the hits of Kurtis is a douchebag.”

You say that like it’s a bad thing.

Rat: you said: “Let’s face it, Minnesota isn’t electing or re-electing a statesman.”

You may be right. I suspect you are. But please, let’s give Mr. Franken the chance to prove us both wrong. You gave Norm six years. Let’s withold judgement on Senator Franken’s first term until (if) Al runs again.

Then, you can compare Senator Coleman’s record to Senator Franken’s in a fair manner.

I wish him luck — because we could all use some luck right now.

“Lord knows we need more statesmen.” – Opus

What you talkin’ ’bout Kurtis?

Minnesota Laughing Stock is just what they call investing in ACME Comedy Co and doesn’t really mean anything bad.

The Pioneer Press decides to reprint — and make some curious edits to — the Wall Street Journal editorial on the Minnesota recount mentioned upthread.

MinnIndy’s Chris Steller rips into the PiPress here. A member of the Canvasing Board does same here.

Just who is on the PiPress Editoral Board? This guy, for one.

What you talkin’ ’bout Kurtis?

In the cartoon, if I remember it right, Opus is arguing with his reflection in a mirror. Opus declares himself a statesman, not a politician, and his reflection says that a statesmen is just a dead politician.

Hence the funny on “Lord knows we need more statesmen.”

Oh, wait. You’re young. You see Opus was this fat, big-nosed penguin in a comic strip that was popular in the 1980s. Opus was acutally funny at first when he looked more like a penguin and Binkley thought he was a German Shepard, but as time went on he ruined the strip.

Milo formerly had a talking hound dog who had many of the strips wriest punchlines, but he got totally Chuck Cunninhammed by the damned bird. Does anybody remember that dog but me?

Opus always looked more like a puffin than a penguin to me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puffin

Rabies? That dog? Nope. I’m too young to remember him.

Stay away from the brown acid, kurtis.

But yes, I remember Milo’s dog — his name was Rabies.

Jinx! I own a stuffed Opus. In a sleigh. Wearing a Santa hat. What’s wrong with me?

PS: The “brown acid” line is from Woodstock, children. While I wasn’t there, Norm Coleman was.

Bob, I’m pretty sure technically that was not a jinx. Kevin? Please confirm.

Wow. Even Power Line thinks Coleman is misplacing his efforts.