Secrets of the City

Next thing you know, they’ll want to ban lawn darts. And RV parking visible from the street.

Really, though, I would suggest the esteemed councilman move to a lily-white, gated community. Then he can also decide what color a homeowner can use to paint their house.

RTA. She – Diane Hofstede. A Democrat, a liberal

Tinge of racism, I would say.

Based on the map of her ward, which includes a large chunk of the campus area, this isn’t going to play well to her constituents.   That’s couch-on-porch land right there. This plays like an elitist “I-don’t-like-your-sense-of-astetic-so-I’ll-legislate-against-you, you white trash” move. 

I’m going out on a limb here and guessing that if she lives in her ward (probably a requirement, but I’m not looking it up) she either lives in a big ol Victorian in Prospect Park on on the River Road, from whence she judges the taste of her neighbors.

If someone would kindly do the leg work for me just to reinforce my stereotypes, I’d greatly appreciate it.  Maybe Ed Kohler can put some charts together.

Nanny-stating at its most ludicrous. The ordinance’s sponsor deserves to be duct-taped to an overstuffed Ikea couch and forced to stay indoors all summer long.

Grote, I applaud your laziness and I agree with everything you suggest.

If Wayno were still here, he could whip up a chart showing couch-porch ratios and distance of the councilwoman’s home from epicenter of couch-on-porch land.

BTW I’m fine with legislating against putting a bathtub in your front yard and calling it art.

@Jack: I did RTFA. More sexist than racist on my part, I suppose, because there was no clear gender attribution on the blog. (Hey, I live in St. Paul and don’t keep up with council news west of the river. Okay?) Race-wise, I assume Hofstede is white — which means a move to a lily-white, gated community would not be racist.

While I’m sure this is targeted at college students and the like, I can’t help recalling the bright red lip-shaped couch I noticed on a deck on one of the spendy condo buildings near the Guthrie. I’m sure their neighbors wouldn’t mind that ’80s relic disappearing.

So — porch and lawn furniture: community good or menace?

It is neither. The ordinance does not ban porch and lawn furniture. It bans easy chairs and sofas. You can still have furniture designed to be left outside in your front lawn.

This is a “property value” argument and not a nanny-state argument. You cannot have washing machines and cars on blocks in your front yard because it adversely effects the property value of the neighbors. The question we should be asking and debating is does a couch on the front lawn adversely effect the appearance of the neighborhood and bring down property values?

I’m glad that Cam has decided this isn’t a matter for the city council – it isn’t – but godammit can’t you lazy bastards go buy some proper lawn furnature and get that soaked, rotting old couch off your porch?

There are times when I’m glad something’s not illegal but still thing the people doing it suck.

tough call. on the one hand, i should be able to put a couch anywhere i damn well please on my property. on the other, the city can ticket me for letting my grass grow too long or that peeling paint on my garage. this isn’t much different.

but really, why bother? the couch isn’t the issue. it’s the noise or beer cans or whatnot, and there’s already laws in place for that.

Nanny-stating at its most ludicrous.

I thought you would have saved that comment for the proposed candy cigarette ban in Saint Paul, Jack.

Had some neighbors who sat in their driveway in old recliners and drank beer from an old fridge that sat in-between (powered by extention cord to garage). When finished with their beers, they chucked them into their lawn or just let the cans roll into the street.

A few years ago, the wife got fed up, divorced him, took the house, had it fixed up (the roof had two different colors of shingles!) and sold it when the market was still booming. She reportedly made a killing, and today the house and lot are still beautiful.

I have mixed feelings about this. DouglasG has a good point that when your house looks slovenly, it can bring down property values. On the other hand, we don’t usually legislate against being a slob, so it seems a little weird to start with the sofas and easy chairs. I’m all for judging and looking down my nose at these pigs, but I suppose I would stop short of making their poor taste illegal.

Is there a public health debate here? It seems that couches and recliners would be perfect nesting places for mice and other animals. Or is it strictly apperance?

(I’m looking at a couch in a parking lot right now. So ugly.)

I thought you would have saved that comment for the proposed candy cigarette ban in Saint Paul, Jack.

You’ve got good instincts, Bob — the Couch Commisar thing is obnoxious, but the candy-cigarette thing truly is ludicrous.  Even my long-suffering wife griped about St. Paul bureaucrats this morning upon seeing that headline.

In my experience, people who sit on La-Z-Boys in their driveway drinking canned beer often make amiable conversation partners.  

This is a “property value” argument and not a nanny-state argument.  

Nah, it’s both, of course, and ‘property values’ is only the fig leaf being used here to justify legislation of taste.  Also, Mr. Nanny-Stater-Enabler, could you explain exactly what constitutes “furniture designed for outdoor use”?  Because that languages strikes me as impermissibly vague and not enforceable anyway, except upon the arbitrary and capricious whim of some municipal servant.

Is there a public health debate here?

Shhh, don’t wake Bob, I think he’s sleeping.

*It seems that couches and recliners would be perfect nesting places for mice and other animals.*

So are gardens and garages — let’s get rid of them, too, while we’re perfecting the world. 

but really, why bother? the couch isn’t the issue. it’s the noise or beer cans or whatnot, and there’s already laws in place for that.

No, it’s not just about that. KC raises the issue, and she’s right:  there is a public helath concern. Namely, they serve as nesting places for rats, mich and other vermin.

I suppose if you can guarantee that the rats nesting in you rotting, rainsoaked couch will remain on your property there isn’t really a problem. Unfortunately, you can’t guarantee that.

Ordinances barring indoor furniture from lawns and porches are very common. Minneapolis isn’t breaking any new ground here. In fact they’re way behind the pitch on this.

So are gardens and garages — let’s get rid of them, too, while we’re perfecting the world.

Gardens: Not so much. They might provide a food source, but they typically don’t provide the habitat cover needed.

Garages: Sometimes, but less so, if they’re properly maintanined. The city does have property codes that can be applied to your property if it’s so derelect that it’s infested with rats and other vermin.

Why do people think that when you choose to live in a community where typical lot sizzes are in the range of 40 X 120 feet, that not only CAN they do any damn thing they please, that it’s a WISE thing to do so?

I do find this slightly amusing though, because in my neighborhood when your indoor stuff is outside, it means it is free for the taking.

(The exception is the couch across the street, which is in a locked, fenced in area.)

We have yet to put a piece of furniture outside that hasn’t disappeared in less than an hour, even an old used boxspring and mattress.

Shhh, don’t wake Bob, I think he’s sleeping

Heh. I could use a nap.

@grote, Hofstede lives across from Elsie’s in that 80’s subdivision. I think her ward includes Marcy-Holmes.

IIRC, both Fort Collins and Boulder put similar bans in place a few years ago; aimed at the college crowd.

Having grown up a block from the Gustavus campus I can see where she’s coming from.

Who cares if this passes? I mean, how many people have couches on their porches anyway? If you really want furniture to sit outside buy some cheap lawn furniture or steal some folding chairs from the student center. Oh noes, your right to have a couch on your porch has been taken away! First, they took away my right to have non-functioning cars on my front lawn, now this? Nanny state!

Pittsburgh passed an ordinance banning couches on porches right after lots and logs of couches turned into mini-bonfires the night of the Super Bowl.

Though I’d be more worried about another Gopher Hockey national championship than a Super Bowl were I a Minneapolis resident. And that won’t happen before 2010 as it is.

Go Beavers!

*If you really want furniture to sit outside…steal some folding chairs from the student center.*

Does this mean we can safely ignore demands for increased higher-ed funding?:   “Give us more money so that we can buy new folding chairs to in turn be stolen by our students, please.”

Fine, steal some folding chairs from a private college. The Twin Cities area has many to choose from.

“Is there a public health debate here? It seems that couches and recliners would be perfect nesting places for mice and other animals. Or is it strictly apperance?”

Yes. The fine folks of NYC and other large cities (and not so large cities) dealing with bed bug infestations would agree with it being a big health issue.

The whole couch outside thing is pretty gross. Vermin will nest anywhere. That stupid bag of corn gluten I got for my lawn was a bonanza for the filthy monsters. And don’t get me started on the fat squirrels feasting all winter long on the spent malt in my compost pile.

It’s a health issue. It’s a fire hazard. It negatively effects property values. Yep, we’re living in a nanny state if the government prohibits it.

Well my governess always gave me snacks after nap time. I want this nanny state to step up and fulfill its role.

I really do get tired of the oversimplification of actions with multiple indirect consequences by the knee-jerk rightists. Once simplified the situation is given a media friendly tag like ‘nanny state’ or the old chestnut ‘family values.’

Or “war on terror.”

or “economic stimulus”

… which is coming back to bite some other, lesser  known terrorists in the ass.

[Re: furniture on porches]:  It’s a health issue. It’s a fire hazard. It negatively effects property values.

[Re: the proposed legislation]:  It’s elitist. It’s got racist overtones. It’s designed to prop up property values, putting housing further out of reach of renters and the homeless. It’s vague and unenforceable. It’s going to result in landfills being clogged with still-usable furniture. Crime rates will rise because people will be forced off their porches. Outdoor beer-drinking will decrease, leading to the loss of much-needed liquor tax revenues. [etc., etc.]

Geeze, this is just porch furniture, folks — do we really need a law banning it?  Shouldn’t the City Council be worrying about corrupt policework instead?

Once simplified the situation is given a media friendly tag like “hope and change,” or “new world order,” or “two-state solution”….

… or “shock and awe.” It turned out more like “shock and, aw, sh*t!”

Why would people be forced off their porches? It doesn’t do that, nor does it ban porch or lawn furniture. Target has an entire section in their stores now where you can buy couches, chairs, loungers, and tables that are built out of weather proof materials.

It’s not likely a vague ordinance. I’m sure that there is a section that defines the qualities a material has to meet for outdoor use.

Why would anybody want to supply mice with housing so close to their own homes, anyway? I lived on campus at the U in my late teens and early twenties and had friends with upholstered outdoor furniture on their porches. I’ve seen firsthand the effects of leaving furniture like that outside. Mice breed there. Mice carry diseases and lice, those mice find ways into your warm house during the cold winter, burrow into your cupboards, defecate in your closets, and that is straight-up disgusting.

I think that I’d have to support the ordinance. I don’t enjoy sharing my home with mice and un-upholstered furniture can be very inexpensive and quite easy to find.

I am trying to figure out why some say this is “racist”. Is there some race that has broken down upholstered furniture as part of their culture?

@Alan Stone: White trash and white college students. So, yeah, it must be racist.