Secrets of the City

One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.

We wants it, we needs it. Must have the precious.

Dear Vikings Stadium Bill: Go back to the shadow. YOU SHALL NOT PASS!!!

I hope the Vikes enjoy playing in LA because I cannot see any way to justify raising any revenue for the Vikes when so many services (including the U of M) have seen revenue cuts.

I admit, my perception would be different if we were talking about a team I actually cared about. And there’s the part where there’s evidence that new sports venues never actually have the positive economic impact on a city or region that’s always promised.

So I, for one, am perfectly happy to see the Metrodome go bye-bye. Because it’s ugly. And because knocking it down gives us the opportunity to put something new and interesting in its place that will make that part of downtown an nicer place to be. And I’m still salty about the way the Twins stadium thing was handled (though I am pleased that some secret library funding came with it).

I like how Wilf states in the article that “this team belongs to the fans of MN”. If that were true, building a stadium with tax dollars might make sense.

As is, I’m pretty sure this team “belongs” to Zygi Wilf.

(Could the Strib’s grovelling be any more blatant?)

Wilf has started his own push, holding a session down in Albert Lea, I believe. It was either a Strib or Minnpost article, it sounded like peopel attending, were falling all over themselves to sign up for tax increases to build a new Vikes stadium.

Two questions come to my mind:

1. What are these people’s opinions on tax increases to keep the various other state services functioning?

2. How many of these people are thinking that any tax increase will be a Mpls/Hennepin-only deal like the Twins Park?

I defy anyone to notice the amount of money they are spending for the Twins ballpark. It could be done for the Vikings with about as much notice.

As I said, I’m only a bandwagon Vikings fan, but I’ve watched them since I was a kid. Imagine the shock of losing that team for so many people.

This is the WORST kind of welfare possible. Rich people asking for money. Hey ziggy go fuck your self, get your hand out form CA. The worst part of it is that the media is biased, the radio stations sell “packages” or opportunities to sell shit on the “public” stadium grounds at any given sporting event. Then they try to pretend that professional sports are a “quality of life” issue. It is about corporate welfare plain and simple. Free shit for the rich.

@Mnblrmkr – I think the citizens of Hennipin/mpls better get their collective shit together or you will be leveraged by some bought off politician to pay for a stadium i.e. Twins.

And the same could be done for every other state service. HCMC needs far less than the Vikings are asking for.

I don’t see it as a “state service” but government/business partnership of the kind that is done all the time.

You don’t usually see Government handing out over half a billion dollars (and I’m sure the actual, final $ will be much closer to a billion) to a single private “partner.” Especially when all of the return goes to the private business side of the equation.

Aren’t the costs shared in something close to equal? I don’t know the plan details, but I’m sure the Vikings kick in something. And it’s not like Wilpf is going to be the only person in the stands.

The Twins stadium debate was emotionally draining for me so I’m not going to spend much time on this one. All I know is if this state lets the Vikings get away, it will be damn sorry it happened.

Right now, I’m not sure there IS a finance plan on the table anywhere. BUt the previous offers weren’t anywhere close to equal. Most I remember seeing was $200 mill or so, on an ~$800 mil stadium. Coupled with the Vikes getting all naming rights, parking, concessions (for any event), and favorable rent concessions. I even remember a plan that gave Vikes development rights for surrounding properties (similar to what happened with Bush’s Texas Rangers’ stadium).

I need a new house. My house is undersized for the modern era. Some of it’s fixtures date more than 100 years and are well out of warranty. If the people of Minnesota don’t band together to levy a tax increase to pay for my new home, I will take myself out of state.

Marklar is right, there is no Vikings stadium proposal out there right now. Seems the team has overlooked this minor detail in its push for a new stadium.

You’re argument is getting pretty old, too, Justin. It’s been done thousands of time times in the past several years in Minnesota and it doesn’t start making more sense the more it’s told.

I defy anyone to notice the amount of money they are spending for the Twins ballpark. It could be done for the Vikings with about as much notice.

All I’m saying is I want a chance to vote on it.

How would you have voted?

How about this argument? The Twins are proven winners, giving this community two world championships, three pennants, and 10 playoff appearances.

The Vikings record is less impressive, IMHO. Even though they have made it to the playoffs 24 times (a much easier accomplishment in football than in baseball) won 16 division tiles and 5 leage/conference championships, they have never “closed the deal” like the Twins have — twice, in three WS appearances.

That’s the difference between a team that can produce champions and a good team, loaded with all the talent that money can buy, but always fails at the end.

Let us not forget, we’re talking about 8 home games. 8! We’re not talking about 81 Twins games. We are talking about $800,000,000 for 8 games a year….

Correction to my first comment: the article was a Strib, and the meeting was in Austin, not Alert Lea.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUycaEacyU

Also, of interest, is that Wilf is now insisting that a new stadium must have a retractable roof. That adds a minimum of $200 million to the cost by most accounts.

I don’t see it as a “state service” but government/business partnership of the kind that is done all the time.

Partnership, please. How about bought and paid for politicians paying back their “constituent”. Vote anyone out that runs or supports a stadium. As far as the twins stadium goes my response is, when Hennipin/mpls cries for more money from the state tell them no, or raise your sales tax for something worth while Vs. a stadium. That said I think it was a scam on the people of Hennipin county, they got screwed. If I recall, The Target Center is underwater too. Welfare for the rich, this is where political revolts begin and one needs to happen soon in this fiscally confused state. Welfare for everyone except the people paying the taxes. Any conservative politician that tells you they are a Conservative and votes for a stadium is a disingenuous hypocrite and should be thrown out of office.

The history of professional sports stadium finance in America teaches us one thing…that there is an easy way (help the current owner keep the team here by helping finance the stadium) or the hard way (let him leave and then try and find all the money to build a new stadium in the hopes of luring an expansion team…Norm Green ring a bell? Art Modell?). Regardless of the current economic climate, Ziggy has all the cards.

So bitch and moan all you want about how unfair it is and what an unjust world we live in and that football is just entertainment and tht you won’t miss it…but either way there WILL eventually be a NFL team with a new stadium here. Better it be The Original Vikings in 2013 than the Zombie Vikings in 2017.

Signed,

Gordon Gecko

I’d like to see any vikings stadium bill have a provision that the team owner and Governor meet individually with every person being kicked off GAMC, and explain to them that it is far more important that the state transfer a billion dollars to Zygi than it is providing those individuals with medical care.

Why does a new Vikings stadium need a retractable roof?!

same reason my kid’s GI Joe Doll needs a Kung-fu grip.

So bitch and moan all you want about how unfair it is and what an unjust world we live in and that football is just entertainment and that you won’t miss it…but either way there WILL eventually be a NFL team with a new stadium here. Better it be The Original Vikings in 2013 than the Zombie Vikings in 2017.

I am not so sure on that anymore. The great recession has changed the playing field forever. Let’s just let the Vikings go and see how the NFL feels about losing the 10th largest media market. Fuck rich corporate horrors, let them go to bankrupt California. I also think that the politics of a stadium are not in Wilf’s favor. Try running for office on cutting the state budget but paying for a new stadium. Let’s see old T-paw runs for president while signing a stadium bill, the conservative talk shows will eat his lunch. Let us not forget that opposing a stadium was a “populace” movement that Jesse Ventura capitalized on. If it were not for stadiums Ventura would have never happened. Look at this site right now, I agree with the liberals, that speaks volumes.

At some point people will stop giving handouts to build playgrounds for millionaires and their billionaire bosses. Until that time, though, the sports rubes whose voices are the loudest will be heard and they will scream loudly if Wilf so much as talks to anyone in L.A.

I tend to think that the state and its citizens would be far better off if all of the money spent at Vikings games was spent elsewhere and the tax revenue that would go for a new stadium funded something that actually benefits ALL Minnesotans.

Having said that, I don’t see the Vikes leaving MN anytime soon. A stadium will get built. Maybe Wilf should team up with Donald Trump and build some expansive retail/stadium mecca in some city that’s willing to make all kinds of concessions and bend over backwards for the Vikes. I’m thinking somewhere like Glencoe.

The Vikes may move to LA, but Zygi won’t be going with them. There’s no way the Roski group is going to recoup their expenses on an LA stadium by leasing it out to tenant/s. And if for some harebrained reason, they tried to go that route, the lease terms would be more financially onerous to Wilf and the Vikes than the current Metrodome lease terms are. No, the Roski folks want controlling interest of a team because that’s where the money is made–in buying, holding, and selling after a number or years.

So the real issue is: will Zygi feel like he’s realized enough return on his purple investment in the next two years if he sells the team.

“….revenue that would go for a new stadium funded something that actually benefits ALL Minnesotans.”

Like what?

We don’t hear much of Harvey MacKay anymore, whipping up the business community to save the home town team. Did he get burned more than once by previous Vikings’ threats to move? Is there even a viable local business community any more willing to demonstrate, as they did with the Twins’ ticket buy-outs in the ’80s, their vested interest in having professional marquee sports remain in the Twin Cities?

“Like what?”

How about fixing the $25 million hole in the HCMC budget? (a hole that is AFTER cutting 100 positions, and eliminating non-emergency charity care for non residents)

Or, how about funding various technology research at the U that could lead to revenue streams like those that the pacemaker, etc. did?