Secrets of the City

I’m surprised the NFL hasn’t gotten up in the mix and demanded the event be renamed “The Big Game Of Freedom” since Superbowl is trademarked.

Good point, Bixby. I like.

And here’s a great link gauging the validity of Bachmann’s statements: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/personalities/michele-bachmann/statements/

According to Hot Dish Politics, “Hundreds of people are traveling to Washington to participate, including about 120 Minnesotans who left from the Twin Cities area in three buses [yesterday] morning.”
http://www.startribune.com/blogs/69234132.html

Update from Politico: http://www.twincities.com/news/ci_13720383?source=rss

What kind of bothers me about this entire thing is the press it is generating, but they are a fringe minority position. Poll after poll show that a majority of the citizenry of the US support health care reform. Why do the wackos get to claim that they know better?

Not that I would side with these particular wackos, but I don’t know that I’d use the opinion of the majority of citizenry of the US to make an argument for anything.

I would use the opinion of the majority to decide an election.
What about the funding for these nut jobs? Its almost all coming from those Americans for Prosperity/Oil company billionaires? They rarely mention that one.

“Poll after poll show that a majority of the citizenry of the US support health care reform.”

Is there a link for that?

lunch!, actually, Americas for Prosperity has been mentioned in almost all tea party reports — but because they brought in busloads of people from about 10 different states.

You don’t know how to use the Google Rat?

That poll is way too old to be accurate

Wonder if any reporter will think to ask for Bachmann’s comment on this sign at the rally:

http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2009/11/scenes-from-a-tea-party.php

Here’s one from a couple days ago that paints a different picture, and it’s based a specific piece of legislation.

You have to look at it like this: Much of the population has severe misgivings about this whole health care debate, and it’s going to pass whether it’s popular or not.

The poll that I linked to shows broad support for the point that I was making. Specifics can be manipulated by the very parties wishing to make the manipulations.

That is, the point I was making was that because these fringe elements get a forum to say whatever the hell they want, they can manipulate public opinion in such a way that you get polls like the one you link to. Its a mish-mash.

The public KNOWS things have to change. The public wants things to change for the better. However, the fringes are trying to make it so that if it is not perfect, then nothing gets done. They introduce doubt, and use obfuscation and whatever forum that the media allows them to prevent the public from making informed decisions.

So, it’s a matter of getting rid of the Forum for the Fringe Elements?

If it is either/or then yes, but it isn’t…

The problem is that the fringe get a pass. The ones with actual good information are forced to split time (for the sense of “balance”) with the wackos, so they have to spend all of their time refuting the idiots rather than putting forth the good information. This is what “reporting” has become.

Do you know whats in this bill? Do you know what it does? Do you know how much it costs? Do you know any details? Likely not because the congress people are constantly fighting against “death panels” and other BS. Things that are not even in the bill.

So, if that means no forum for the fringe, then so be it!

I liked Jon Voight better when he was only pimping for himeslf, in “Midnight Cowboy.”

Well, there she is on the cover of the New York Times again. Sheesh. You try to take a little pride in the place you live…

Do you know whats in this bill? Do you know what it does? Do you know how much it costs? Do you know any details? Likely not because the congress people are constantly fighting against “death panels” and other BS. Things that are not even in the bill.

Did you know that the Baucus bill was voted on before they even had it drafted? I don’t even know how that’s possible! That fact alone should give everyone pause. In Minnesota, we won’t even vote to recess for Passover/Easter without having the resolution on paper on everyone’s desk, much less a massive health care bill. A piece of legislation is a complicated, technical and demandingly precise document. How anyone can bring something up for a vote without having a full engrossment astounds me.

Wow, kwatt, you apparently don’t like it when the Dems act like the Republicans did when they ruled Congress.

There’s a saying that aptly applies to many things about the way Republicans most recently ran Congress. It goes, “You can’t defend the indefensible.”

Pretty humorous that it’s only NOW that you find the voice to protest against it.

Were we to hang out and talk on a daily basis you’d know that to not be the case.

So, mnblrmkr:

You can’t address what Kwatt said, just try to turn it back at him, like a mere partisan hack?

Hack attacks like his don’t really merit much more.

I would argue that the Dems actually are running a more open congress than the Republicans did. Republican demands were included in the stimulus bill, they’ve been incorporated into the health bill (also note that the GOP “plan” released this week doesn’t even include things that key GOP leaders favor, like prohibiting denial due to pre-existing conditions).

You never saw the GOP court conservadems like Nelson, the way the Dems have courted Snowe.

The GOP had every opportunity to present amendments or even an entire alternative bill prior to now.

I wasn’t even intending it for to be an attack, rather a comparison of the way we write laws in Minnesota vs the completely bassackwards way they work in Washington. If it caame across as an attack then I didn’t convey it well. I was literally astounding when I learnt that a) they voted on the Baucus bill before it was printed and b) that’s normal. It doesn’t matter who is in charge, that’s absurd. When you write a bill you have t make sure that every shall is a shall and every may is a may. Mistaking one for another can have huge implications, and that’s just one example. Minnesota’s process isn’t perfect (witness the 2008 tax bill debacle) but its a lot better than that. What a joke.

eh, There

crap. don’t know what was going on with my browser there.

There was obviously enough written for the CBO to score the markup prior to the committee vote.

There’s also quite a few steps form that to any kind of final bill, since this was just the Finance committee bill, which will have to be merged with the HELP bill, which, if passing on the Senate floor, will then have to be merged with the HOUSE bill in conference committee, it just seems a bit silly.

What I failed to mention earlier when mentioning the Americans for Prosperity bit was that the guys behind it are the (Koch Industries heirs) sons of one of the founding members of the John Birch Society. We all knew they were wackatoos, but the exact pedigree seems to be ignored by the national press. if they would just say next gen birchers, then the irrelevance of these protest would be made manifest.

The Pioneer Press reports a crowd of 10,000 at the Bachmann DC rally, which is rather remarkable for such short notice. Even more remarkable was the parade of Republican leaders (such as they are) who came out to address the crowd my Congresswoman had gathered.

I recently listened to a teevee personality offer her view that the Tea Party movement was rapidly “taking over” the GOP, and she cited Bachmann as one elected official who was quick to “ride the wave” of anger about government in gerneral and the President in particular. I also saw on Twitter a headline yesterday saying that Bachmann was now a “national figure.”

I thought both were a little over the top. I was wrong.

Had it not been overshadowed by the tragedy at Fort Hood, the DC rally would have gotten a lot more attention. I know Michelle Bachmann will get more media attention after this. She just entered the big time.

What next, I wonder?

Civil war.

This week she appealed to Congress. Next week she appeals to Heaven.

There was an intresting quote from a Florida woman who atttended the rally. “We came to hear her [Bachmann] speak, not the GOP.” (via MinnPost)

If I were a member of the GOP leadership, I would be concerned about statements like that.

I think people who show up at events like yesterday generally hold both political parties in pretty much equal disdain.

I don’t know if its “equal distain” Rat, but your point is taken. It’s how they feel about the President that is interesting. What, exactly, did Obama do that has these people so upset with him? Which freedoms has he taken away?

This health care reform bill scares them.

They seem to be scared by a lot more than that.

My take on the health care thing, up to now, is that it’s one of those situations that the compromise plan is the worst. I wanted single-payer, and yet I have a feeling that if Republicans had been in charge and gone for the full open-market solution, that may have been better than the compromise we’re ending up with, which really gives the greatest benefit to the insurance companies. The former solution would have simply eliminated them and the latter would have forced them to actually compete. Instead we’re giving them a nice hand-job and a bunch of forced customers.

But as for the bill in question, it’s probably better than what we have, all advantages and disadvantages included, as far as I can tell. And kwatt should recognize that by not acting in good faith through this entire process, Republicans have more or less waived their right to criticize the thing.

Re: Protesters

I’m leaning toward the anti-health care people having the better protests because they clearly put more care and effort into the creation of their signs. They use glitter, make puns, use all sorts of photoshopping and often bring along props like guns to accompany the signs and protect their art.

The only thing I think pro-health care people are concerned about in the creation of their protest signs are spell-checking and fact-checking. I don’t even think these pro-health care types care what font they use. It’s like they’re too lazy to learn to use photoshop, GIMP, or even Paint. Also, they don’t even bother to include stock images of the president and something/one displeasing.

Worst.

“And kwatt should recognize that by not acting in good faith through this entire process, Republicans have more or less waived their right to criticize the thing.”

Complaining about things is an American birthright, jeffk. I don’t imagine many Republicans voted for Obama, either, but they haven’t stopped whinning since.

Well, the bill has been passed in the House. Now it’s the Senate’s turn.