Secrets of the City

That’s an interesting choice of tags, Matt. You had me interested until you included the name of a political candidate.

Bachmann’s connection to this church was in the Strib yesterday.

With all this talk about Ellison, and how his relationship with NOI and CAIR should keep us from voting for him, even though there is no evidence he subscribes to their viewpoints (and a lot of evidence he doesn’t), I’m surprised this hasn’t come up yet.

Bachmann actually does believe these things. Bachmann actually has campaigned against equal rights. But apparently middle America finds her fringe beliefs far more palatable than Ellison’s, or, at least, less worth discussing.

Those WELS folks are not like your normal run of the mill Lutherans.

They are scary!

I had a relative who got married in a church of this denomination. The relative wanted me to sing at the wedding but the church wouldn’t allow it. Apparently I’m going to hell and, by that church’s measurement, most of the people whose company I enjoy will be there too. If the music I heard at that wedding was indicative of what can be expected in heaven, my hell is looking better and better.

As for distributing church information fliers at Halloween via children’s candy collecting bags, it’s been done before by other churches. My three year-old niece got one of those while trick ‘n treating several years ago. I flipped through it and it was appropriately Halloween scary.

Yes, there are evil spirits wandering among us. Some of them were running Enron for a while and some can still be found in other large corporations. We have some in government too. I once worked for one. Sadly, throwing holy water at them does not diminish their power.

That’s well and good (and maybe I should ask why the link wasn’t brought up before now) but let’s be honest – is this post about culture, religion….or just another way to fire up yet another “discussion” about the MN6 race (ie politics)?

Can you predict the next ten comments in this thread? I can!

. Comment from CRZ including link to Reuter/Zogby poll showing Bachmann with a 52-42 lead
. Comment from Dizzy asking if it’s all right to talk about Bachmann’s association with WELS but not talk about Ellison’s association with CAIR
. Immediately followed up by the same one-liner from msparber he posts after every comment from Dizzy
. Comment from Mazapasa bashing people who bash religion
. Immediately followed up by comment from Raindog66 saying something unbelievably irrelevant and shrill
. Three comments from DePusha asking us to pay attention to him

Well….okay, that’s eight. Throw in one from bud jr and another one from you or Matt for good measure, and now we’re at ten.

Don’t get me wrong…I’m still here, so the formula is WORKING, but I just think sometimes the motives behind certain posts need to either be made a little more transparent or perhaps hidden better.

You got your order wrong, crz.

What am I, brown bread?

It was the damned spam filter!!

There is no hell but the one humans create for themselves.

More proof Michelle Bachman is a Self Hating Lesbian Anti-Christ.

(I hate to disappoint my fans!)

What about me? You forgot about me!

Would Mpls Simpleton make an off color fart joke? Link to some article that only half explains his point? Ignore MAZ?

I’m hurt!

“Don’t get me wrong…I’m still here, so the formula is WORKING, but I just think sometimes the motives behind certain posts need to either be made a little more transparent or perhaps hidden better.”

The Halloween stuff from the church was post-worthy by itself. I couldn’t not mention Bachmann because it would have been brought up anyway and her relationship with the church has been in the news lately. It’s election season. Everything is political.

It seems weird that my grandpa’s Missouri Synod Lutherans are less conservative than the Wisco counterparts.

Or, for those of you who prefer poorly illustrated tracts, here’s the same philosophy.

Halloween is evil

Roman Catholics aren’t Christians

I’m just scared what will happen if Bachmann is elected.

She’s… kinda crazy.

WTF? Wisconsin is a breeding ground for brainwashing extremists.

I find this little tidbit about WELS particularly troubling for Bachmann:
WELS holds that, according to Scripture, women may not serve as clergy nor vote within their congregations, while the ELCAs three predecessor churches began ordaining women into the ministry in the 1970s.

Bad News GOP: You’re about to be gone by the way of the Dodo bird.

Okay, I think most people on this site will agree that Michelle Bachman’s church is filled with crazy creationist Christians. But maybe they’re onto something this time. I was watching Sunday Night Football last weekend and MSNBC cut in with a special report about how this was the best spending Halloween ever. Maybe all our evil spirits and dead saints are really being drowned out by all the quickie costume mega-warehouses and massive sucrose sales. I grew up catholic, but I’m not sure if Halloween’s purpose was ever really more-than-candy for me (All Saint’s Day was always the day after though), but don’t the latinos celebrate dia de los muertos on the same day? Mystery and death and meditations on evil–maybe those things are as important as the C.R.E.A.M.

When setting up an alternative religion, be sure to villianize the existing religion. It is the best way to win converts! You can’t gain eternal salvation as one of them, but you can as one of us.

Halloween is evil; however, it is Christmas to dentists!

Wow, glad I’m so notorious!

Actually, I don’t live in Bachmann’s district…if I did, I’d be working hard to bring that hateful bigot down.

Both her and Ellison’s nutty religious affiliations are fair game for extreme criticism. In fact, the only thing good about either of them winning would be we wouldn’t have to live in the same state as them most of the year.

Can’t pigeonhole the Dizzy-man! Sorry! Hate is hate, whether it comes from radical Christians, radical Muslims, or radical Anythings. No exceptions!

Unfair comparison. Whereas the christians just want you to go to church and be a good person? The muslims want to, like, kill you.

Nice, Maz.

I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.

-Gandhi

Who does Keith Ellison want to kill?

Yeah, these days the radical Muslims do outnumber the radical Christians in the murder department, I’ll give ya that one.

Whatever. Happy Birthday Satan!

Now, where are my Black Sabbath records and the bowl of leftover tootsie rolls?

Now I see why everybody hates mazasapa.

Keith Ellison’s friends at CAIR are all about supporting murderers….nobody said Keith Ellison wanted to kill anybody. Setting up straw men like that won’t fly.

Seriously, the commercialization of Halloween is just part of the black pope’s sinister plan: party at the W.

Black Pope? Are you referring to Sun Ra? or John Coltrane?

Two Words Mazaspaza-

THE CRUSADES.

So you are WRONG, again.

“THE CRUSADES”?

You’ve gotta be kidding me! You’re pulling out the Crusades to prove that, in 2006, radical Christians are just as violent as radical Muslims?

Yeah, Christians WERE horribly violent in the name of religion…IN THE 12TH AND 13TH CENTURY!

Mazaspaza gets a lot of crap on these boards – often rightfully so. But I won’t sit here and let somebody make bogus arguments like that either.

yeah, seriously guys, the crusades. I like how everyone conveniently forgets about them when they’re talking about how superior christianity is to islam in terms of restraint from violence.

You mean The Crusade that we’re on right now? Or like, guys in chain mail?

What a dumb argument. Both sides.

If you don’t like my arguments – why don’t you leave? All you do is attack people Dizzy like you have some “lock” on what is right. In fact you are simply a fearful white male with barely closeted racist views.

OKAY – How about how Mazaspazza’s CHRISTIAN BROTHERS BOMB ABORTION CLINICS and ASSASINATE DOCTORS?

Isn’t THAT Terrorism too?!!??!??!!

Freaking HYPOCRITES!

Mazaspazza says ALL MUSLIMS want to kill – and you DEFEND him?

Incredible!

Dudes… the real threat is the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

I only defended him against the bogus charge (or implication) that the Crusades proves that Christians are just as violent today as Muslims. It just doesn’t wash.

Bombing abortion clinics is terrorism – but how many people have been killed in abortion clinic bombings vs. radical Muslim-inspired terrorism attacks?

HOW MANY? JUST AS MANY? OF COURSE NOT!

I didn’t say all Muslims want to kill – I said a lot of Mazaspaza’s comments were crap. See above. I don’t agree with him on a lot of stuff, but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t occasionally say something partially valid.

You call me racist and fearful and use name-calling whenever someone dares to point out you’re wrong. It’s a an old tactic, but a goodie – I see it done on these kinds of boards all the time.

If you honestly think radical Muslims are less dangerous than radical Christians, than I honestly think you should move to a country in the Middle East that imposes Islamic law on all its citizens – see if they let you call them dangerous.

(The above message was written and edited by Karl Rove.)

No it wasn’t.
The problem with a lot of people on this board isn’t that you hate the radical Christian right in this country – I do too.

No, the problem is that you have an “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” mentality, that says that because radical Muslims also hate radical Christians, somehow that makes the radical Muslims “not as bad.”

Radical Muslims believe every neanderthal thing that radical Christians do, with the added bonus that they want to impose that crap on the rest of us by threat of death. Would radical Christians ever resort to that? Sure, probably. HAVE they in the past? Of course. But the threat right NOW, right NOW, comes largely from radical Muslims – people who believe women should be stoned to death for showing an ankle or for getting raped. People who believe in hanging gays in public squares. People who fly airplanes full of innocent people into buildings full of innocent people with the only goal being to maim and kill as many people as possible.

If that doesn’t scare you, or worry you, G-d help us all. Seriously.

No, you don’t have to be “Karl Rove” to think that – you just have to have a brain (and yes, it’s debatable whether Mr. Rove has that, or even a heart or a soul, but then, I never ONCE defended Bush or Karl Rove on this board, so don’t you dare put those words in my mouth).

Dizzy. Raindog’s a troll, remember? She warrants no response.

Only DUMB WHITE GIRLS consistently use ALL CAPS.

I agree…luckily I only use them OCCASIONALLY

That’s true. I agree with you about muslims, Dizzy. Once the black pope sets up his new world order, they’ll no longer be a problem though.

And no, Grote, I’m not talking about Earl Monroe.

Sorry. I forgot.

I actually wish the real pope was black. Aren’t there a lot of black Catholics these days? Didn’t the Church set up a zillion missions in Africa? Why are the keeping the black man down from being Pope? It would certainly be better than having a former Nazi like they do now.

Talk about racist!
(I’m saying this lightheartedly, but I actually mean it)

Yeah. Why are all these Muslims out to get us?

Could it be the fact that we invade their contries, bomb their cities, and kill tens of thousands of innocent people?

Marsh is right. The new Crusades (Iraq, U.S. War of Terror) are already here.

People like Dizzy feast on the blood if only to attempt to prove some insignificant point.

acalhoun, still steaming over being deemed totally insignificant?

I HEART DUMB WHITE GIRLS.

- people who believe women should be stoned to death for showing an ankle or for getting raped

This is in Michelle Bachman’s platform fyi

speaking of women getting stoned, raindog is off her meds.

I was about to say, speaking of dumb white girls, but I held back until G Rote’s comment

always glad to open that door, diz.

I visited a Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Church a few years ago. I discovered that they would not let a person partake of communion unless you were a member of that denomination. I thought communion was open to all believers of Christ. I am a born-again, spirit-filled Pentecostal Christian who was baptized. I have a problem with churches who aren’t open to everyone. My children who are developmentally disabled, have lifelong scars by an Assemblies of God church by being made fun of by the pastor’s daughter. Since when must a person show a calling card from a particular denomination in order to get into heaven.

I like stoned, raped, and naked ankled women.

I’m just like Jesus that way.

Grow up, Aleshire. The spiritual world is just like the real world which is just like high school–you can’t just join the in crowd because you wanna. There are standards. Go find your own goth heaven or something.

I’m going to be Mary Magdelene’s homecoming date. She’s hot.

I dunno about that one…I’ve been able to sneak communion @ a baptism on several occasions. I just wanted to get a buzz on and try the matzah that they are trying to pass off as the flesh. Guess they never saw my horns.

Manischewitz has Jesus beat when it comes to matzo.

New MPR 5th District piece online now:
http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2006/10/30/fifthdistrict/

again, note the closing paragraph:

“While history may be behind the DFL in the 5th District, no polls have been taken that would offer insight as to where voters are leaning in the days before the election.”

I know I sound like a badly-skipping, unlistenable CD at this point, but why ARE there no polls that would offer insight as to where voters are leaning in the days before the election? This is truly bizarre, in my opinion – and it seems like the beat reporters are beginning to grasp that as well.

C’mon, Dizzy – you ‘n’ me should man the phones and take our own poll! (Maybe we can get Tom to bankroll us!)

Re: communion. Who are they to know if you aren’t a member of the denomination? Do Evangelical Lutherans dress differently than, say, Methodists? Would you be guilty of sin if, in your upbringing and belief, communion should be offered to anyone who is baptized regardless of denomination?

Some Catholics will not partake in Protestant communion, and vice-versa, because of what they were told growing up. But my own belief, having grown up Episcopalean but married to a Catholic, is that God will not judge me for taking communion at either church. It’s all Christianity, isn’t it?

There’s no way they could probably know, noodleman. Maybe most are willing to assume, that, unlike grote, you’ll respect their faith enough to observe it’s doctrine, even if you don’t understand it, or think it’s silly.

Most Christian faiths will welcome you for communion if you’re a “believer.” The more conservative branches of Lutheranism — the Missouri and Wisconsin Synods — are more restrictive. I can’t speak for others such as UCC, Catholicism, or other branches of the Protestants.

If you ask me, I think most ELCA churches (read: maintstream Lutheran) would rather not associate themselves much with the Missouri or Wisconsin sects.

I come from a long line of angry, loney Lutheran people. Then we got “better.”

A Lutheran has a battered psyche. It runs through the centuries. Half of the first Lutherans must have thought they were either saved or doomed. And if they were doomed, it was in a major way.

I would say in this country, fundamentalist Christians are more dangerous than fundamentalist Muslims. Sure, Muslim terrorists may be a little ahead in terms of body count, but I’d say if you consider the little bit suckier our fundie Christians make all of our lives by shoving their morality down our throats and brainwashing children, I’d say it adds up to more somehow.

What’s the danger jeffk? Morality?

“C’mon, Dizzy – you ‘n’ me should man the phones and take our own poll! (Maybe we can get Tom to bankroll us!)”

Hey man, I’m game! Just got done arguing via email with Strib Reader Rep Kate Parry and head honcho Anders Gyllenhall about it. Kate claimed that “the numbers” don’t show a tight race, thus no poll.

Hilarious!

“What numbers”? I asked her. Well, she stammered back (in email form, though I could tell she was stammering, having made such a ludicrous assertion), “I just don’t get the sense that it’s tightening up.”
Very scientific, Kate, VERY scientific.

She also told me that polling was “expensive”…ohhhh, poor little McClatchy Corporation can’t affowd a wittle poll, ooooh, dat too bad.

She also told me that local races don’t draw as much attention for polling as national ones. Yeah, that’s why I’ve seen a Bachmann-Wetterling poll every other day, along with Kline-Rowley, etc.

And yeah, Kate, I don’t suppose the people who make up a HUGE chunk of Strib readership, the 5th District, the very district that houses the StarTribune, would be interested in a poll about the most controversial, heated, nationally-watched Congressional race in this entire state for eons.

No, nothing to see here folks. Bob, weave, dodge, evade. The StarTribune motto.

the rat:

Morality as defined by the arbitrary interpretation of a 2000 year old self-contridicting non-sensical book morons think was written by an invisible man in the sky that doesn’t stand up to even the weakest of rational scrutiny, then enforced on me by law? The word “danger” is accurate here.

I’m an enlightened being, I’ll figure out what is ethical behavior by using my brain, thanks. I’d rather have a 1/100000 chance of being blown up by a fundamentalist Muslim than have Christians tell me I can’t buy beer on Sundays or look at porn on the internet.

Morality as defined by the arbitrary interpretation of a 2000 year old self-contridicting non-sensical book morons think was written by an invisible man in the sky that doesn’t stand up to even the weakest of rational scrutiny, then enforced on me by law? The word “danger” is accurate here

Yeah. And you can thank your Founding Fathers for that. Morons all of them. Why, that George Washington guy was so stupid he actually said, “We ought to be persuaded that the propitious smiles of heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right which heaven itself has ordained.”

“I’m an enlightened being, I’ll figure out what is ethical behavior by using my brain, thanks.”

Didn’t know I was in the presence of such a being. Apologies.

Sure mazasapa:

Washington spouted handsome language out of one side of his mouth, and ordered his slaves around out of the other.

A man’s virtues are to be weighed against his faults, not discounted by them.

” I’d rather have a 1/100000 chance of being blown up by a fundamentalist Muslim than have Christians tell me I can’t buy beer on Sundays or look at porn on the internet.”

First of all, fundamentalist Muslims wouldn’t let you buy a beer period! I tend to think their punishments for looking at porn might be a little more severe than what radical Christians in this country could hope to impose, given the fact that a large portion of our own society completely reviles them anyway (unlike the situation in radical Muslim countries, where moderate Muslims are completely at the mercy of the radicals, who rule with an iron fist and a quick noose).

As for the 1/100000 chance…well, that sounds a little optimistic. Sure, it’s not particularly likely, but it also ain’t as improbable as, say, getting hit by a falling piece of space junk.

Well, I know that given equal numbers, the Muslim variety of fundamentalist wins the scariness battle. I’m just referring to now.

One out of context quote by George Washington doesn’t make me wrong. He did some pretty sweet shit, but I suspect he was fallible.

As for the 1/100000 chance…well, that sounds a little optimistic.

I would bet that the megamall is pretty high on the islamofascist target list for when they get their nukes, given the typical megamall crowd size (100,000 on weekends) and al-qaida’s delight in getting maximum bang for their buck. A one megaton nuke at the bloomington megamall, about the size of a basketball, would take me out here in st. paul and everyone else within a 5 mile radius.

“Morality as defined by the arbitrary interpretation of a 2000 year old self-contridicting non-sensical book morons think was written by an invisible man in the sky that doesn’t stand up to even the weakest of rational scrutiny, then enforced on me by law? The word “danger” is accurate here.“

- – -

As a fairly strident atheist, I will say that religion has always filled an important role in society – it provides a clear, largely accepted moral framework that otherwise appears in no other such organized and accessible fashion.

I understand that you have issues with a few of the moral theses being propounded as having been biblically inspired by various Christian sects right now, but I’m willing to bet that you really are in complete agreement with about 97% of the moral framework set out in the Christian bible.

So, I’m not arguing with the main point that I think you’re making, but just wanted to make a comment about babies, and bathwater, and stuff.

.

The moral framework proposed by the Bible is ridiculous, and is chock full of stonings, selling kids into slavery, etc. The only reason I “agree with 97%” of it is because it’s been distilled by modern-day Christians who are molded by our modern, sort of reasonable, sort of civilized society. The Bible doesn’t get credit for “thou shalt not kill”, because that’s been a tenant of many societies, many religions, and more imporantly, there’s a reasonable argument as to why that should be the case. The Bible throws a ton of absurd shit at the wall and it just so happens that a little of it still sticks. So what?

Our modern framework is defined by what allows us to effectively share space together. The holes in it tend to be caused by bigots and morons who use the Bible to justify themselves, because the Bible is written in such a way it can justify about anything.

China got along fine for thousands of years without the lying murderous psychopath that Abraham worshipped. Only when Christer missionaries started to show up we get the Opium Wars, then the Taiping rebellion (christians start a civil war) which sets the stage for the insane horror that was 20th century China. Monotheism is just sick, and belief is stupid.

The danger of extremist Christian fundies in the U.S. is currently held in check by the constitution and those who demand it be upheld. Many countries with a Muslim majority do not have such stop gaps that keep religious doctrine from over running individual liberty. The Crusades, Salem witch trials, etc. are evidence that when there is too much overlap between any religion and government, the worst aspects of both can more easily rise to the surface.

Fear and loathing of Christianity, masquerading as enlightenment. Folks like you who trapse the Internet peddling this stuff don’t know that the more you talk, the more you turn power over to the very people you despise most.

Whenever I point out my frustrations about Christians, rather than taking any of my points head on, it just turns into “fear and loathing of Christianity” or something along those lines. Do you or don’t you have some kind of counter argument?

At least get in the last century, if you want to appear credible, Carrie. Siting the Crusades makes you look desperate for an example.

Those dangers you site do exist among the primitive end of Islam. Where else?

How do I counter what I see is fear and loathing, jeff? What frustrates you? They have a belief you don’t agree with. Who cares?

when there is too much overlap between any religion and government, the worst aspects of both can more easily rise to the surface

As someone who’s been on this planet longer than most of you, I can attest to the fact that at this time, this nation and its government are less affected by religion than at any time in the past 50+ years.

Given our history, people who claim that we’re somehow in the midst of a theocracratic jihad launched by republicans or christian fundamentalists, haven’t lived long enough to know how ironic that notion is.

I absolutely care so long as it affects my life. If it didn’t, I wouldn’t care, I’d just think they were daft.

How does it affect my life? We have incredibly sinister people controlling our country because they pandered to the religious right. We have laws and policy that are based on “christian morality” (for just one example, consider the cost, shown cleary by many studies, of woefully inadequate sex education). We don’t use science to guide our policies. These people are dragging us back to the middle ages.

I don’t want to go through these points one by one – the upshot is that it’s silly to argue that the existence (in droves) of Christians doesn’t affect my life, and so long as that’s the case, I’ll bring it up, and rail against it, whenever it’s relevent.

Yeah, jeff. I went to the doctor the other day. He told me I wasn’t feeling well, was because a troll was living in stomach.

Thought it was kinda strange, but I got the prescription for bat feet, and i feel a little better.

I’m sorry, am I wrong? Because you’re not telling me why, you’re only calling me names.

As someone who’s been on this planet longer than most of you, I can attest to the fact that at this time, this nation and its government are less affected by religion than at any time in the past 50+ years.

Maza’s my senior, so I’ll take this as fact. That’s good. Let’s keep moving in the right direction.

How about something up to date:

Catholics spread Goebbels like propoganda about condom use and millions die of AIDS in Africa.
Doesn’t this seem like a sort of bad thing?

The church is making the claims across four continents despite a widespread scientific consensus that condoms are impermeable to HIV.

I think claiming that condoms will halt the spread of AIDS with 100% certainty, when there are doctors who disagree, is more dangerous than saying that they won’t.

Poof! Damn it stinks in here all of a sudden.

It’s very simple in the long run. You don’t force your religion into my laws, I don’t force whiskey down your throat. No one is forcing believers to do anything, but believers are forcing their subjective ideology on me. But it’s just bashing against a wall because the “righteous” JUST DON’T GET IT!.

I suppose this has long since meandered off topic, but I can’t help but comment (and thank Simpleton for the example that proves my point).

Nothing works with 100% certainty. Are you suggesting we should campaign against seatbelts since I might still die if I crash while wearing one?

Why not just tell people the truth? Condoms work 99% of the time. If everyone in Africa was using condoms right now, can you imagine how much less pain and suffering there would be? And Catholics campaign against this while maintaining their supposed moral superiority? Disgusting, and one of many examples.

Um, excuse me, what are ANY of you actually doing to alleviate suffering in places like Africa?
You all make wonderful political points….amazing little zingers….but how does that help people in Africa?

I quote the sage David Lowery from Cracker: “So let’s get off this, get on with it, if you wanna change the world, shut your mouth and start this minute”

DO something. Raise awareness on Darfur or the AIDS crisis in Africa. Don’t use dying people in Africa to score political points. Pressure politicians in the US to do more. Give to charities. Start letter-writing campaigns. If you care about Africa, don’t sit here and argue about it on a message board.

I used the Crusades and Salem as examples that any religion, even Christianity, if unchecked can run amok and negatively impact the lives of others. Currently, some of the larger populations of Christians are housed in parts of the world where government law is not as impacted by religious doctrine (North America, Europe, Australia, etc.) so we aren’t seeing large scale religious persecution out of Christians.

I believe, if given the opportunity, a radical minority of Christians in this country would gladly impose harsh laws on the rest of us based on their beliefs about morality. Despite the constitution, some of these kinds of laws are still sitting in U.S. law books from legislation laid down in the 19th century and early 20th century. They aren’t generally enforced because constitutional interpretation would render them moot if anyone decided to fight the legal charge against them. (sodomy laws, for example).

There is an attitude among some current conservative Christians (as there was among Catholics during the inquisition) that they have a moral obligation to force you to their way of thinking for the salvation of your soul. Since the soul survives far longer than the body, they see their mission to convert you as more important than saving the (temporary) human life. If passing laws, brainwashing, and other extremes are the only way to do this, they see it as a moral duty to get it done. If it still cannot be done, removing you from society will protect other souls from being tainted by your refusal to assimilate to their soul saving agenda.

Those who are not rabidly conservative, but simply Christian, often ignore the actions of the more radical faction believing it won’t effect them much because they’re not gay or in need of an abortion (for whatever reason) or of a different religion etc. This kind of apathy and concern only for one’s self is what allowed the genocide of WWII.

Start letter-writing campaigns.

Hey, yeah, an african pen pal! That’ll work. I can tell my sheepherder pen pal not to have sex with people other than his spouse! Yeah, that’s the ticket. Think it’ll work?

Masaspazza once again proves how divorced from reality he is.

If you don’t realize that this country is firmly in the hands of the right wing “christian” zealots than you are:

a) lying
b) undergoing shock therapy
c) reading Karl Rove’s talking points
d) all of the above

Once again Masaspazza is “d”.

And once you PROVE you are doing SOMETHING to feed the world Ditzy THEN you chan chastize the rest of us. Until then–

S T F U !

I quote the sage David Lowery from Cracker.

I prefer to live by these words of wisdom from David Lowery

My claim of stopping AIDs via my letters to an african sheepherder are no less realistic than the claims of a naive liberal that the african AIDS epidemic can be solved by controlling the sexual behavior of a population as you would a herd of diseased cattle. Even though that’s how liberals see populations in general.

Dizzy:

Nothing. But once again, that doesn’t make me wrong to say that it’s a bad policy to tell an AIDs-ridden population not to use condoms. Your point is taken that it’s worth doing something personally, though.

I don’t begin to understand mazasapa’s comment about diseased cattle.

I’m guessing that Idi Amin was Maz’s pen pal.

Mazasapa and Raindog must be ignored….I now see why the ban is in effect.

BTW, Take the Skinheads Bowling still rulez!
Nice work G. Rote!

My favorite thing about that video is that the alley where it was filmed now houses the Amoeba Records on Haight in SF. perty koul.

My favorite thing about that video is that the bowling alley where it was filmed now houses the Amoeba Records on Haight in SF. perty koul.

Wow dude. So we’re all being controlled right? We’ve learned through tradition right? Geez sounds like life to me. Can’t control the government. Can’t control religion. We’re fucked. I still hate my parents because they ruined my life. Grow up. If you don’t agree with something don’t let it control your life. Do what you can to change things instead of just throwing jabs at people whose views differ from your own. It’s not like everybody agrees with working a third of their life, but that’s how it is – so on to something different. Beh, you’re a baby.

“I believe, if given the opportunity, a radical minority of Christians in this country would gladly impose harsh laws on the rest of us based on their beliefs about morality.“

– - –

I agree. So would a radical minority of Earth-Firsters, Communists, Social ists, John Birchers, Moonies, anarchists, Muslims, union officials, Knights Who Say Nee, anti-globalizationists, Mens’-Rights-Orgs, that RainDog person . . .

hoo boy. someone’s got issues.

Yup, anyone’s extreme would be tough to live with – although some easier than others.

I’d like to hear from a member of the Knights Who Say Nee’s. What’s their current agenda? Have they read The DaVinci Code?

Our Islamic fundamentalist friends in action:

http://tinyurl.com/yf2enp

but no, these people aren’t dangerous, right?

Oh, they’re dangerous, the rat. They’re just nt alone in being dangerous.

radical minority of Earth-Firsters, Communists, Social ists…

This is a good point but it’s worth mentioning that not every “extremist” group is created equally. The beliefs of fundamentalist Christians are (almost by definition, since they’re “faith” based) untenable, while say, social ists are attempting to make a reason-based case for why we should be social ists. Or for example of the earth was truly on the brink of destruction (not quite yet), it would be pretty smart to submit to the will of the “Earth-Firsters”. I wouldn’t consider myself either but I’m just trying to make the point.

So social ist is a naughty word?

Didn’t say they were! Kim Jong Il is dangerous too, and he’s not a religious anything…except maybe the cult of “Dear Leader”-ism

evil is evil, whether it comes from radical Christians, radical Muslims, or radical dictators in the Far East who perform forced abortions on women held and starving to death in modern-day concentration camps in N. Korea

So social ist is a naughty word?

I prefer collectivist, myself. And remember:

“Those at the extremes enjoy the greatest leverage.” Mech. Eng. 101

Just stay away from those Earth Fisters.

That’s just gross.

Islamic Fundamentalists are no more dangerous than Pat Robertson, Dick Cheney and Condi Rice.

Just ask the rest of the free world.

But keep up the racist fear mongering. It exposes your hate inspired pov.