Secrets of the City

Let’s keep it civil today, shall we?

Has anyone here ever seen the woman at First Ave? If I have, I must have thought she was alive. I can’t remember anything out of the ordinary supernaturally…

As in “civil war?”

But seriously folks, that new MSP website is good. Just took a peek at the article on Don S. and realized with a shock it was MSP.

*** WARNING – WARNING ***
What follows is a comment on the interview with Don Samuals about black militants and white liberals. This is an overtly political topic and associated commentary. If you’re offended by this topic or find it too political to your liking, I suggest you skip it. ***
_________________________________________________

Don Samuals speaks the truth. The same dynamic exists between indians and white liberals only we don’t have a Don Samuals who has come out and admitted it. One of the many reasons more men of color are beginning to vote republican (our women will always be liberal … it’s primordial instinct for women) is because not only do white conservatives share our values, but they’re more intellectually honest with us. And we respect that.

Or it means that idiots have finally adopted equal opportunity practices…

Maza, do your women know how to spell? It’s Samuels, not Samuals.

I thought I was going to see Marsh tell a joke or two. I’m a little disappointed.

On the other hand, the MSP redesign is great. Two links from them today! It’s nice to see an extended Don Samuels interview, and the video stuff is fun too.

I hate to admit it, but today’s KK column is actually pretty interesting, and appears to feature actual research and reporting.

Wow. Kathy K covered the issue better than anything I’ve seen so far. Is it possible that she’s actually in a coma and an intern is writing under her byline?

I actually prefer Dr. Mysterian’s haunted iPod story, and it’s got a local band on it.

Minneapolis/StPaul Magazine may have an improved website and good content lately, but they still don’t cover hard-hitting local news like this!

No wonder KARE has been #1 in this market for so long, and Jason’s Station is flying the white flag of surrender.

Yeah, the albino squirrel story has nothing on Jason’s giant cat story.

Anybody else feel weirdly proud of Don Shelby when he alienates advertisers?

If the squirrel can’t water ski, I’m not interested.

And not speaking for the station, of course, we have been doing quite well without buying ads on radio over the past five months. Although I was hoping our creative types would start running radio spots inspired by the political campaign.

“KARE says they handle the news with care. But ask the albino squirrel what he thinks. He says KARE ruined his life, making fun of his skin color. KARE-TV. They’re racist. And too extreme for Minnesota.”

Anybody else feel weirdly proud of Don Shelby when he alienates advertisers?

It just tells me that he still doesn’t understand where his paycheck comes from.

Read this:
http://www9.sbs.com.au/theworldnews/region.php?id=132248&region=7

So I guess it’s “anti-Muslim bigotry” to some people if I call hate speech like this “evil”?

Think about this speech the next time somebody calls anyone criticizing radical Islam “racists”. I am consistently amazed that people who call themselves liberal can’t be moved to speak out angrily against stuff like this for fear of offending someone. The only thing offensive here is a prominent Australian Muslim cleric comparing women to a piece of meat and blaming them for rape. That is despicable and should outrage anyone from any end of the political spectrum.

No, not all Muslims believe stuff like this – of course not. That’s why we need to actively support moderate Muslims who reject crap like this (like local Somali leader Omar Jamal, for example, who has bravely taken on the Muslim cab drivers who won’t pick up passengers carrying alcohol).

Are Muslims the only ones with crazy, evil religious beliefs? Of course not. I feel just as angry at a bus driver who won’t drive a bus with a Lavender magazine ad on the back. But let’s be consistent here – if Jerry Falwell pisses you off (he sure pisses me off), then so should radical Muslims who want to impose shari’a on the rest of us.

You might prefer to be informed by shills, but I like to believe that not everyone in the media has been bought & paid for.

On a positive note, there appear to be several creatures that are either albino squirrels or feral ferrets running about in the neighborhood of GVCC. Must be all the bleeding heart PETA liberals in my Golden Valley neighborhood.

Well, seeing as he’s paid to do the news, and not be a shill for advertisers, I’d say it shows he knows exactly where his paycheck comes from. Some of us like our news undiluted by the pressures of the ad sales department.

It seems like I see albino squirrels all the time. I don’t get why they are worthy of wasting gas to get a TV truck out to videotape them, but whatever.

However, a while back I saw a grey squirrel chasing an albino squirrel around a yard, with obviously amorous intent, and I thought it was a fabulous sight. If squirrels can see beyond color, why can’t humans?

You might prefer to be informed by shills, but I like to believe that not everyone in the media has been bought & paid for.

What does Shelby make? a couple million a year? Do you think anyone in print journalism makes that kind of money? Why do you think tv salaries are higher than print salaries? When you answer that question you’ll see where Shelby’s paycheck comes from.

I think the photographer just spotted the squirrel, thought it was cool, and took some video of it. No big whup.

Eddie…have you ever slept with a squirrel? I didn’t think so.

I’m not sure radical Muslims are getting a pass from anyone here, Dizzy. We were all pretty critical of the whole “Muslims won’t drive passengers with alcohol” thing, and Kersten’s article today is one of the few she has written that people haven’t automatically dismissed.

I saw a white squirrel yesterday in my yard, just minding his own business collecting nuts.

He was suddenly and randomly attacked by a dark squirrel.

No news channel covered it.

Now if someone at ‘CCO could get footage of the tormented, legless ghost of the Minnesota squirrel that haunts the empty Shubert Theater downtown, that would be something.

Oh, wait!

Three cheers for Don Samuels. The man is brilliant and I hope he considers a run for higher office in Minnesota someday (Mayor? Governor? US Senator?). He has my vote. He is a brave man with the right ideas in a difficult time.

Read it and weep Nick Coleman – your phony agenda has just been called out on the carpet by the Twin Cities’ most eloquent and effective African-American politician.

Derush: you wanted me to crack a joke about don samuels? I got to use the n-word. I thought that was edgy enough.

But CAIR has extensive ties to radical Islam, and Keith Ellison continues to associate with CAIR and take money from them.

When I point that out, I get called a racist.

So I do think a lot of people have a knee-jerk reaction these days to anybody who points out the danger that radical Islam presents.

And before you go into your “I don’t believe in guilt by association” rant, tell me what you would think of a person who associated and took money from that radical Muslim cleric in Australia who said that women deserve to be raped. That wouldn’t bother you?

His anecdote of meeting with the drug dealers in the middle of the street should be eye-opening.

And what’s your point, Maz? That he should shill for the gas-guzzling American auto industry?

And what’s your point, Maz? That he should shill for the gas-guzzling American auto industry?

No, that he shouldn’t go out of his way to alienate the people who have made it possible for him to be on the air in the first place. That’s all.

I knew it. Dizzy, did you miss the entire discussion yesterday where we weren’t going to turn this site into three people endlessly rehashing the same one or two political conversations?

Don called out Nick in August, I think. But it is funny that this QA dropped on the same day Nick finally wrote an OK column.

And what, in practical terms, is the difference?

I don’t know, but it’s done every day.

“I don’t know.”

Of course not. And yet you still feel quilified to comment.

The PiPress also has a short list of allegedly haunted establishments.

actually, Coleman was great in the wake of the Block D shooting this summer. There was a moment there where I thought he might morph into Charles Bronson.

I was talking about the Acme video, Marsh. I wanted to see you take the open mic. But nice work with Don Samuels.

Sorry….seriously.
I’ll play by the rules.

I don’t know if that’s actually bud jr., but that’s really funny.

To paraphrase Michael Stipe, “It’s the albino squirrel as we know it, and I feel fine.”

Steve Marsh, did you see Sid’s response? Now some of the people in the media who never have stepped on the Gibson-Nagurski practice field or know anything about the football program are calling for him to be discharged. SNAP!

Has anyone seen or done a fifth district poll? I wonder if Tammy Lee is climbing.

They had a spat over the baseball stadium thing too. It’s a beautiful octogenarian relationship. Let’s call it “Silverback Mountain.”

Sid hasn’t done an honest day’s work in 40 years, and most likely never did. Whatever it takes for him to keep his seat on press row is what he’ll give ya.

mike s,

Kersten’s column is actually really well reported, given the other reports on the issue. That Arab-African Muslim tension seems to be quiet an ordeal.

I meant to say “Kersten’s column is actually really well reported, given the other reports on the issue. I’m surprised.”

The lack of ANY polling in the 5th District race remains a real head-scratcher.

Sure, it’s unlikely the DFL candidate (I’m not supposed to say his name on this site anymore, I guess) will lose, but given the sheer volume and depth of bad press said individual has received (along with his GOP opponent), I’d have to think Tammy Lee has a legit shot at peeling away votes from the Dems and Repubs….not to mention the many actual independents in the district.

I’ve actually posed the question about polling to several media outlets in town, and have yet to receive a satisfactory answer.

No, it wasn’t SUPPOSED to be a competitive race, but it clearly IS, and I think the public (especially the readers of some major publications in town) would like to know. Shoot, you’d think they could sell some extra newspapers if they ran a poll like that. Unless, just maybe, they’re worried that a poll might do harm to “their candidate”. Like, for example, if the poll showed that Tammy Lee was surging (which, clearly, seems to be the case), some of those GOP voters might realize that their candidate didn’t have a chance and switch their vote to Ms. Lee. If Ms. Lee can pull 40% of the vote, she can win.
My analysis is:
DFL candiate (right around 40%, just like in the primary)
GOP candidate (right around 20%, just like in previous cong. races in the district)
Green candidate (5%)
which adds up to 65%, meaning Ms. Lee has a legitimate shot

All very interesting….and puzzling.

People who support Tammy Lee are like the Windmill Chasers that supported Nader.

Nice excercise in moral conscience but politically and realistically FUTILE.

I mean there is NOBODY who measures up -save for a few local politicos— to what I expect from a democratic (small d) perspective but rather than become a Guerilla War Soldier I choose to at least stem the tide of depleting resources (8.5 TRILLION DOLLAR DEFICIT, ANYONE?!?!) and dying soldiers (AFGHANISTAN,IRAQ, IRAN…)and vote for the Dems. They’re idiots but there better than the evil bastages on the RIght!

Keep up the boosterism of Tammy Lee and we just may end up with a “Man” who beat his pregant wife (allededly) but looks good in a speedo (does anyone who is NOT gay wear a speedo? Notthatthere’sanythingwrongwiththat.)

But who am I kidding. In the end of the these politicians are all feeding from the same poisoned well. It’s just a charade and ultimately what they do is so watered down that by the time their policies hit the local level, any problem they are attempting to solve is beyond saving and any restrictive policies they mandate are chuckled at and ignored (i.e. everything ever uttered by John Asscroft).

In the end, raise your kids to recognize truth and beauty and to shun ignorance and bigotry and hopefully the world they shape will be a better place.

And let’s not forget about another 3-way race in Minnesota where the public was turned off by the 2 major party candidates but nobody in the mainstream media thought that the Independent candidate could win.

1998, Ventura…’nuff said

ooo.. somebody must be reading The Rake…

…and Kersten’s article today is one of the few she has written that people haven’t automatically dismissed.
‘cept me!

I color in her shriveled face in the paper every morning with a black pen making her one big ‘fro of hate and stupidity and never read a word of the crap she writes.

Incidentally I do the same with Masaspazza’s posts and now my monitor is fubar.

It’s fun!

In a system so entrenched as ours, it is vastly more effective to attempt to change it from the inside than the outside.

If the greens want to have effective change of the environment, they must first behave as a voting block in the democratic party. If a democrat cannot get elected without green support, that is when they will have the power. Otherwise, they are saying things that both parties can ignore. They have no voice.

Tammy Lee is going to get a lot bigger percentage of the vote than Ralph Nader. I think the Ventura analogy is a lot closer to the truth than the Nader one.

If there was a Hot-o-Meter, where would Tammy Lee rank?

Incidentally I do the same with Masaspazza’s posts and now my monitor is fubar.

You love me and you know it. You think I’m hot, don’t you? Admit it.

Bud-
nobody’s gonna take your bait and drag this thread into the gutter. Sorry dude.
Suffice it to say, she’s better looking than the other candidates. ‘Nuff said.

Prominent liberal blogger comes out against DFL-endorsed candidate in 5th Congressional District:
http://lloydletta.blogspot.com/2006/10/few-of-many-reasons-why-cd5-residents.html

The 5th district results are going to be really interesting. Only one thing is certain: Fine will get 3rd. Which is why Lee has a shot. Those of us who are disappointed in Ellison can vote for Lee without risk.

I surely hope this Dizzy person disappears after the election.

Shrill doesn’t begin to describe this A-hole.

Exactly – look, Tammy Lee is a Democrat who didn’t want to be subjected to the sordid internal politics of the DFL. She worked for Skip Humphrey and Democratic North Dakota Senator Byron Dorgan, one of the better ones out there.

Here’s my ticket for Nov. 7:
Mike Hatch for gov
Amy Klobuchar for Senate
Mark Ritchie for sec. of state
Rebecca Otto for State Auditor
Andy Luger for Henn. Co. attorney
and
Tammy Lee for US Congress

not bad…I don’t have to hold my nose about any of them

If only I could vote for Don Samuels for something, I’d be completely satisfied

“I surely hope this Dizzy person disappears after the election.”

To quote Aerosmith, “Dream on”

“I surely hope this Dizzy person disappears after the election.

Shrill doesn’t begin to describe this A-hole.“

- –

One man’s “shrill” is another man’s “heh heh, good Bachman dig, man!”

(If this is supposed to be a specifically liberal-leaning site, than I’ve misread, and I apologize.)

.

Actually Samuels is wrong, at least about affordable housing. Yes its long, but a quick read.

[EDIT: This letter was NOT written by the poster of this comment. An email has been sent to the author to ask permission for publication. - Matt]

Councilmember Samuels,

I read your remarks in Minneapolis-St. Paul magazine and feel the need to respond.

I haven’t met you yet, but from the interview you seem like a very direct communicator. In that spirit, I’ll begin by saying that I think your remarks seriously simplify the issue of concentrated poverty. You suggest that we need to stop building affordable housing in some neighborhoods as a means of reversing poverty concentration. The thrust of your argument suggests to me that you have accepted, hook, line and sinker, the argument of Myron Orfield. Myron and I co-taught a course on regional equity this past spring, and I know his argument well. If you are open to another way of looking at things, please read on, because I’d like to propose a different way to understand the relationship between poverty concentration, affordable housing, and regional equity.

First, let me say that we (you, Myron, and I) agree on a major point – that more affordable housing opportunities need to be made available in communities (and neighborhoods) that currently lack them. We need to find a way to get affordable housing built so that people have more options about where to live, have better access to job opportunities, and to increase the diversity of all of our communities and neighborhoods. (On diversity, I am a believer in the ‘contact’ theory that says the more contact people have with others who are not like them in income, ethnicity, race, background, the more likely they are to be tolerant of others not like them. And there are a range of society-wide benefits that flow from that.)

But my own research and the research I read of others leads me to question your (and Myron’s) logic on how best to achieve that. First, this metropolitan region is adding a million more people in the next 15 years. A significant portion of those people will need affordable housing and a significant portion will be locating in our central cities and inner-ring suburbs. This is in addition to the 170,000 or so who currently need – and lack affordable housing. We cannot, as a matter of practicality, stop building affordable housing in large parts of the metropolitan area – it is (and will continue to be) needed everywhere.

How acute is the need? Myron Orfield passed some legislation in the mid-1990s that would have established a ‘fair share housing program’ that would have compelled the suburbs to build housing. That program could have operated at full funding for 50 years before it built enough affordable housing to house the number of families who, in 1995, needed that housing and ALREADY LIVED IN THE SUBURBS.

This brings up my second point. Based on research of the New Jersey fair share program (and my own research of the Hollman consent decree and what happened to those families and to the affordable housing built in the suburbs as a result of the decree), we can expect that should a sizable amount of affordable housing be built in the suburbs, it will be occupied by lower-income families who already live in the suburbs but lack affordable housing. Building an affordable housing unit in Plymouth, will not solve the concentration of poverty problems of the north side of Minneapolis.

Third, what is the basis for expecting that if we merely stop building it in your ward, they will start to build it in Plymouth? Or Wayzata? How does your refusal to accept affordable housing compel them to accept it?

Fourth, the research on housing mobility is quite emphatic on how people make decisions about where they want to live. People are not simply buying a particular house payment, or rent when they make a mobility choice. They are buying the entire set of amenities, and public and social services that exist within a community. To take one recent example, many of the families displaced from the public housing torn down on the north side of Minneapolis (what is now Heritage Park) could not be convinced to move out of the north side, or out of the city, to any of the nice affordable housing opportunities made available to them in Chaska, Woodbury, Minnetonka and elsewhere. Why not? For a range of reasons, from the fact that they liked the north side, to the availability of public transportation, to the proximity of jobs, the proximity of friends and family (their social support networks), to the fear of discrimination, or simply the fear of the unknown.

This research finding has been reproduced in every study I know of related to various efforts to “deconcentrate poverty.” The north side, and by extension the near south side, or the east side of Saint Paul, or Frogtown, have a rich and varied infrastructure of social, economic, and physical systems that make those communities attractive to people of limited means. Many of the people you would like to see leave your ward, don’t want to. What happened when HUD made Section 8 vouchers ‘portable’ (meaning people could get a voucher in city A and move to city B and use it)?? Well, in this metro area, the most common move across municipal lines was a move from the suburbs into the central city – not the other way around.

Fifth, the central neighborhoods of Minneapolis and Saint Paul (and in the inner suburbs) have an aging housing stock. This is one of the reasons why they are so affordable. Many landlords will say how difficult it is for them to make ends meet with the rents they can charge, compared to the cost of upkeep, maintenance, and building improvements. So the stock declines over time, rents do too (at least in relation to inflation and operating expenses), and the process becomes a self-perpetuating downward cycle.

Most of the affordable housing proposed for your ward and others like it, consists of the rehabilitation of the worst of this stock. It is a physical upgrading of the building, it is the transfer of management from a disinterested or overwhelmed private operator to a community-based nonprofit organization that is in the business of providing clean, decent, safe and affordable housing. To refuse this type of housing is to cut off your nose to spite your face.

This type of housing is not a “pain” that must be endured by all – it is part of the neighborhood revitalization that we seek. It increases property values nearby, it often decreases crime at the location, and it frequently stabilizes the properties. People who live in subsidized housing don’t move as frequently as low-income people who do not live in subsidized housing. Why? Because they have a relatively good deal and they know it. So they stay in the building, they stay in the neighborhood, and they start to resemble long-term residents with a real stake in the neighborhood.

If we are worried about renters who are relatively transient, and don’t stay around long enough to care about the neighborhood or their building, then we should pursue more subsidized housing, not less.) Worse, if we ignore this housing stock – and resist attempts to rehab it or replace it with other, better low-cost housing, how do we make the neighborhood attractive to developers who want to build upscale housing, and middle-class homeowners who might want to buy in the neighborhood? They will not invest in a neighborhood that is not taking care of its housing stock.

Councilmember Samuels, I could go on – I’m not nearly at the end of my argument, but this is getting long and you and I are both very busy people. I’d love the opportunity to talk with you about this. But, short of that, I would urge you to consider the complexities of this issue. You and Myron have reduced it to a simple relationship: affordable housing = concentrated poverty.

Nothing in the world is that simple, and as someone who works in the community all day, every day, you, above all others, can recognize that.

Sincerely,
Ed Goetz

Edward G. Goetz
Professor
Associate Dean
Director of Urban and Regional Planning
Humphrey Institute of Public Affairs
University of Minnesota

Apology accepted.

Now buh-bye!

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

self righteous elitist prig alert

Copying and pasting an email is an act of self-righteousness?

Such a shame.

Ah yes, the academics know way more than those who live the life. We all know that. I’ll even bet that some of his friends are black.

Why wouldn’t an academic know more about housing policy and neighborhood revitalization than your urban poor “Every Man?”

any more cliches you want to throw at me?

Typical liberal elitist point of view … “Who are going to believe, me or your lying eyes?”

Jonathan, might it not be true both that, as you say, the effort to spread out affordable housing doesn’t work out so well for the people who then have to try and shoehorn into what is maybe not a complentary lifestyle, and that the result of a large concentration of such housing in one area, like maybe the area of which Samuel speaks, is unhealthy for that area?

That maybe you’re both correct, but that you’re not seeking to address the same issue?

.

Jonathan, might it not be true both that, as you say, the effort to spread out affordable housing doesn’t work out so well for the people who then have to try and shoehorn into what is maybe not a complentary lifestyle, and that the result of a large concentration of such housing in one area, like maybe the area of which Samuel speaks, is unhealthy for that area?

That maybe you’re both correct, but that you’re not seeking to address the same issue?

.

Now, if you put on your special glasses, and look directly in the middle of my two identical posts, you can see it in 3-D.

(Not sure how that happened . . . )

.

A Plea to the Reactionaries on MNSpeak
Yes. The professor’s post was a copy and paste and could have been a link to a blog post; but bud jr’s response was also as typical. Of course why would you spend the time to read it and think about the content of the post? That would take too much time and wasn’t delivered in a Fox News sound-site; therefore, it must be long-winded liberalism at its finest. On the other hand it may have been an excellent summary of a complex issue. Pondering complex issues takes time. At LEAST as much time as it takes to spend your entire day sitting here and responding to MNSpeak threads.

Bud and all you other reactionary personalities — both liberals and conservatives — humor me. I dare you to to reflect on the issues and respond with factual, documented rebuttals. Simple reaction is scant, simple and stupid. If that’s what you want, be my guest. But if you want to be taken seriously, then debate the issues. I mean really debate. Get your evidence, assemble an argument, and be a man or woman and stand up for your intellectual brilliance. If you’re not willing to do that, then don’t expect anyone to take you seriously. And that can’t feel good. Or does it? Bully-ism I suppose is refreshing to the simple minded.

Something tells me even this post is a waste of my time because my expectations are so low of real, thoughtful dialogue. At least Max regularly pleas for sound evidence to made arguments. Keep it up, MS.

I await your flame. And let me guess…I misspelled something in my post, and you’ll correct me thereby rendering the entire content useless in your simple little world of playground discourse.

There. I said it. My own pent up frustration with stupid talk by a few members of this community.

Typical liberal elitist point of view … “Who are going to believe, me or your lying eyes?”

Fuckin’ a, man, this is exactly the crap I’m talking about. Do you have no self-control at all, Maz?

Seriously, Matt. There’s got to be some way to ban people, or collectively delete posts, or something, because this sort of fucking trolling simply destroys Web forums. Almost any other site would have kicked off bud, Maz, Raindog, and a half-dozen others who add nothing to the conversation and simply poke their heads in to make asinine, bullying, stupidly provocative posts, and it drives people away. We’ve let trolls just take over this site, and, as I’m sure you’ve noticed, they’ve pretty much taken over all the forums.

Maybe you’re right — maybe it’ll settle down after the elections. I suspect it won’t, though, and we have to have some way to properly moderate this forum if that happens. It’s turning into completely unthinking partisan name calling, and that’s the exact opposite of a community.

Max, banning is not only a slippery slope, it’s virtually impossible. For better or worse, it’s a public, egalitarian media format, so there are going to be thought vandals. Who wants to be the thought police, and where are the lines to be drawn.

I see it as the kind of like city living. In order to be immersed in the city’s inherent culture, you’re going to have to put up with the traffic noise, crime and crazies that a city creates. Look @ it this way…when the crackhead accosts you on the way to the symphony, do you engage him, or do you walk by, ignore him and continue the conversation that you were having previously?

I would love to hear Rex’s take on this, since I was never on the site when he moderated, but everyone who was here seems to think he had a handle on this sort of thing.

I have never been on an unmoderated forum that wasn’t completely taken over by assholes. Most institute a policy that, if violated, leads to banning, and it’s really the only way to keep things civil. Sure, some of the trolls simply register again, but their misbehavior catches up with them again and they get booted off almost immediately. Some come back properly chastised and become civil members of the community. Far from being a slippery slope, it’s really the only thing that works in an online community.

As to who makes the riles, well, it’s Matt’s forum, and he is free to draw the lines where he wants, but if he wants more participation, this garden is going to need more tending.

hey guys, just don’t respond to the trolls.

As for Rex, I don’t think he moderated. He just never had any political posts. He seemed to think it was ok when Alexis posted a link to a meth recipe, so I’d have to say his standards for community conduct weren’t the most enviable.

As for Raindog, Maza, and the rest, just think of them as Nazis marching through Skokie. It’s the price we pay for freedom: letting any idiot have his say. We’re free to not have to listen, or respond.

Rules, rather.

I would like to see more non-political posts on their own. We seem to get a lot of separate posts all lumped together into one mass post, when some of them could be conversations all on their own. I do think gluing all the political posts together, or at least separating them from non-political posts, is helpful.

I will attempt to ignore the trolls. I just feel such an overpowering urge to correct misinformation.

Bartel is trolling me!

Anyway, I had scads of political posts, and endless debates about proper community etiquette (so much so that etiquette seemed to eventually invade every post — how meta!). However, I tended to stop reading the political posts rather quickly. When people inevitably got upset, I just said the best part of MNspeak is that you can view it selectively. It’s very easy to tell which posts are going to be worth your time to read in full (and ones where I’m popping in with the 80th comment probably aren’t it).

Now does anyone know where I can score some meth?

Are you calling ME a Nazi?

That’s rich…

It’s turning into completely unthinking partisan name calling, and that’s the exact opposite of a community.

Welcome to Karl Rove’s America, Comrade!

Oh, and to answer the question directly: I never banned anyone, though I certainly got angry with people and wanted to (and usually, I was dating them). To the best of my memory, I deleted only one comment — actually a whole thread from an unstable dude who went bonkers one night and threatened to kill me (a few of you might remember that — hilarious!).

But I’m not saying that moderation and/or banning might be warranted in some cases — I’m just saying that, generally speaking, I like a self-policing society and believe that software can solve a lot of the problems of larger online communities (reputation systems like Slashdot, selective commenter invisibility like Live Journal, etc.).

I’m still mad at you for linking to my bicycle site.

Hey, sometimes the right wing guys on this site do censor themselves. For example, a couple of weeks ago I repeatedly asked if someone was willing to make the argument that President Bush is doing a good job, or that the U.S Congress, under its current leadership, is governing effectively. And guess what? No takers!

Yeah, and if would have had takers (funny, I don’t remember that post), we would have labeled “trolls” and accused of partisan bomb throwing. Look, why don’t you people just be honest and say that you don’t like having to read views that you disagree with? People have opinions. Some of those opinions may not be based on the facts but their still opinions.

I get accused all the time by the hyperlink nazis of not providing links to “back up my facts.” Well, hey! Guess what? if you don’t believe my comment or opinion, ignore it and move on. Good god, if I had the intellectual pain threshold some of you do, I wouldn’t be able to get through the day on this or any online forum, not to mention make it through an MSM evening news program. And to be honest, I must confess that I’m not very selective in the online forums I visit … I post on several very day. Because I enjoy it. I enjoy the give and take. But if you people are so paranoid and unsure of your own intellect that you want to ban people you disagree with, you’ve lead a pretty sheltered life.

Max, do what I do. The MAJORITY of the posts directed at me are personal insults. Questioning my intellect, questioning my sanity, ridiculing my appearance, calling me racist names, you name it.

Except for two occasions (which I regretted as soon as I hit the add button) I’ve simply ignored them. I simply don’t respond to posts that I view as inappropriate. Try it sometime. It’ll be better for your mental health.

Maza, with all due respect — and I truly mean that — you often seem to confuse opinion with fact. Just because you believe something doesn’t mean it’s a fact. Now, your opinion may in fact be a fact, and that’s why you’re often asked to back up your statements with some substantiating evidence. When you refuse to do so, then it leaves those of us who are actually wondering if you have a credible point coming back to our general theory that your real motive is to simply stir up a hornet’s nest. And if that is in fact the case, then that’s why this community — which I believe is sincerely interested in a real debate — throws its collective hands in the air.

I am not afraid of good conservative debate whatsoever. In fact, I’ve voted for Arne Carlson, Tim Penny, and, yes, even Norm Coleman (oops, I’m on the record). I just can’t for the life of me figure out why conservatives can’t put a damn well-thought argument together and, rather, simply go for playground namecalling and bullying in these forums. It’s like there’s a collective maturity-gene-gone-wrong epidemic.

Where’s the reasoned and reasonable voice in the conservative camp? I can’t find them on MNSpeak.

Well, with all due respect Andrew … and I mean that, I think you’re exagerating. In a real debate, not all of the exchanges are in fact, facts, from either side. But that’s ok, at least from my perspective, because someone can make a good point in a debate simply based on a theory or an idea that hasn’t actually been tried. Doesn’t make the points invalid, in my opinion. But, whatever. I’ve been spending too much time here anyway, ignoring my other favorite sites lately … where some people actually agree with me. Imagine that!

A large concentration of some types of affordable housing is bad for an area. If rents are low because the landlord is not spending any money on maintenance or screening potential residents, of course this will be bad for the surrounding area. However, as Goetz wrote, affordable housing built by nonprofit developers, and reputable for profit developers, gives people living in substandard housing another option, a safer and healthier option.

Rehabbing existing abandoned buildings, or affordable housing in disrepair gets rid of the “bad” affordable housing. The building where I live now was in horrible shape a few years ago, many of the residents were selling drugs out of their units, none had undergone a background check, and some had not even signed a lease. A for profit developer took over the building, and got rid of all the drug dealers/criminals simply by running background checks on the residents and making all residents sign a lease. Rent is still affordable, and the building is now a community asset. This typ of rehabilitation, especially of historic buildings is much more popular now primarily because land prices are up, and also because there is a lot of funding for historic rehabilitations.

If more of these developments were happening on the North side, people would have better housing options, the people causing a lot of the problems on the North side wouldn’t have a place to live, and rents would continue to be affordable for the cashiers, grocery baggers, nursing assistants, and retail workers who deserve a decent place to live near their jobs and community resources and transportation that they need.

I love good points just as much as the next guy. I like good points that have been well researched even better.

I also love great wine, good friends, and a nice pork roast. Thank God it’s Friday.

Does not support the collectivist notions of the above.

Get rid of the f’ing criminals and decent working folks can have all the housing back.

Simple.

Even S[arber should understand it.

“I just can’t for the life of me figure out why conservatives can’t put a damn well-thought argument together and, rather, simply go for playground namecalling and bullying in these forums. It’s like there’s a collective maturity-gene-gone-wrong epidemic.“

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Yeah, I was thinking the exact same thing! All of those no-mind anti-Bachman posts were just so typical . . .

Oh, wait . . . .

(Generalize much?)

.

don’t get me wrong: the left side of the house can often be no better. But the right side just does the no-mind with such expediency and grace that it’s mind boggling.

frankly, i don’t like any discussion where I think people on both sides are using only their guts and instincts and not their brains. You know, it’s OK to be wrong and then improve your position. It’s called enlightenment.

Now does anyone know where I can score some meth?
Rex…this might help…and I believe it’s a MN based manufacturer.

Genius.