Secrets of the City

Too bad Carleton is in Northfield and not St. Paul.

Dr. Trudy Bond is a psychologist in Toledo, Ohio and is in need of a shrink. The lady has issues.

Who ever heard of the juxtaposition and sports and political protest. Woooooooo, that’s crazy!!!! Oh wait….

I actually feel sorry for Trudy’s kid. I wish he had written this article instead of her. Without hearing from him, we’re left to believe that perhaps now he has to live down this embarrassing fiasco with all his fellow students (not all of whom are left-wing nuts btw) thanks to his mom’s politics.

What an astonishing line in the atricle on the school board members blowing off meetings:

“Henry-Blythe listed recent trouble keeping track of board meeting times, a family trip, and out-of-town travel or work conflicts.“

It’s really hard to keep track of board meeting times. Perfect.

Dude, didn’t you recently claim you went to Mac. Unless things have changed dramatically since my time there (’91-95), (i) most of the students are ambivalent, at best, about even having a football program; and, in any event (ii) this sort of political protest is completely consistent with “mainstream” Macalester political sensibilities. I would be shocked if he didn’t have many, many more supporters than detractors among students and faculty.

I agree that that article about Mac gets confusing and meandering but I did like this quote:

One wonders what was meant by the need to change the culture and mentality of a college community that is viewed by most as one of most intelligent, liberal college communities in the nation . . . that Mac’s football program must morph into the All-American model of anti-intellectual, Fellowship-of-Christian-Athlete, jocks-first, winning-is-everything warrior model?

I always thought Macalaster was super cool for not having a serious football program. Shame to see that change.

Dude, I didn’t go to Mac, my kid did. I just got to pay the hundred grand. Anybody who thinks that a school that has a football team is equivalent to an All-American model of anti-intellectual, Fellowship-of-Christian-Athlete, jocks-first, winning-is-everything warrior model has issues … probably with men in general, and strong men in particular … is all I’m saying. If she was a guy I’d say she probably has gender identity problems associated with a lack of physical prowess … kind of like some of the guys here. heh.

I disagree. Why does every school need a football team to identify themselves with? The school already has a team for those kids that for some reason really want to play football, but now it has a mission of creating an identity surrounding that team as opposed to the one it has, which is based on academics. Our country is anti-intellectual; we’re uncomfortable with ideas, analysis, research, learning – it threatens our little ideologies. And to make ourselves more comfortable with academic institutions, we mask them with football. It’s sick, and it’s sad to see Mac turning into everyone else when it was different in a good way.

Our country is anti-intellectual; we’re uncomfortable with ideas, analysis, research, learning – it threatens our little ideologies.

Speak for yourself! The only place I ever see any evidence of that is on this forum where young brainwashed lefties cover their eyes and ears whenever they’re exposed to any conservative thought. heh.

Is 39 young?

“Ideas, analysis, research, and learning” has nothing to do with left-vs-right politics inherently, and everything to do with, well, those four things. Being that conservatives (really by definition, in fact) have little interest in those, as evidenced by (for example, among many others) their complete disrespect for science-based policy, their lack for funding for education and research, and their strong preference for basing decisions on imaginary sky-men rather than reality, I have little interest in conservatives.

Maz…for all your intelligence, accomplishment and education it’s a damn shame that you still can’t distinguish between opinion born of thought & rhetoric born of dogma. You think you’re thinking, but we know you’re trained not to.

I await your trained response. Thanks.

Conservative thought?

If by covering eyes and ears, you mean actually correcting the misstatements, lazy arguments, and intellectual dishonesty that passes for conservatism on this site, then, yes, we’ve got our hands clapped over our ears, our eyes pinched shut, and are humming a cradle song.

their complete disrespect for science-based policy, their lack for funding for education and research, and their strong preference for basing decisions on imaginary sky-men rather than reality, I have little interest in conservatives

This is an example of your brainwashing. First of all, most conservatives excel in the hard sciences (math, physics, chemistry, etc.) where there are absolutes and facts, while most liberals gravitate towards soft sciences (sociology, etc.) where there are no right and wrong answers, only opinions.

Secondly, conservatives aren’t opposed to funding for education and research, they’re opposed to unlimited, unwarrented, and ineffective funding for those things. We spend over $10k per student in MN public schools now. That should be more than enough.

Thirdly, you’re confusing conservatives with religious fundamentalists who only vote with us because they refuse to vote with the atheists and religious persecutors.

Dizzy nailed the fraud that is Ellison.

Who is ‘covering their eyes and ears’?

You, oh master of the puppet!

It’s so odd to watch bud cheerlead these discussion. It’s like a sports team having a mascot who is frothing at the mouth and flinging his poo at the spectators.

wow that’s funny! I’m a liberal mathematician! Fancy that!
and I was raised conservative but realized how full of shit they were as soon as I got away from dumb smalltown america and saw the world on my own. I must have been ‘brainwashed’ by those scary liberal sociologists out there … preying on youth!

Like it or not, maz, you’re in bed with the crazies and they’re driving. I know I mixed my metaphors there, but you’re just a passenger along for the ride now, with lovely narration by fox news analysts and rush limbaugh.

And I would love to see Maz back up his last assertion with some actual links. But he’s never done it before, so it might be asking too much.

Let me see if I can do it:

Hm, according to the Washington post, most scientists lean democratic.

I can’t find anything else. I suspect it hasn’t really been studied. So we’ll just have to rely on Maz’s blind, unsourced opinion on this.

Is that a football analogy? heh.

I’m a liberal mathematician! Fancy that!

And I’ll bet you’re not very good at it. heh.

Mr. Thompson’s full of shit.

Look, I don’t need “links” to prove my point. All you liberals hated math and loved english, admit it! You know the stereotype of the engineer is of the nerdy, conservative fellow.

So are you, yet some of us engage you…will we never learn?

“I can’t hear youuuuu.” heh.

All right, now that you have admitted that your view of the world is based on comical, cartoonish stereotypes gleaned from 1960s cocktail napkins, remind us again why we should take you seriously?

Oh, yeah. Because you’re a rigorous scientist and a keen thinker.

You guys are turning this site into an infantile D vs R nuisance. I suggest you check out digg.com as a good platform for your immature quarrelling. If you haven’t been banned from it already.

You mean besides that?

Yeah. Something that can demonstrated.

now you’re going to criticise my mathematical prowess knowing nothing about me other than my political convictions? You, sir, are a fucking asshat and can kiss my white liberal ass. Your own horrid ignorance is showing and it’s ugly.

Or why don’t you go get wasted on firewater and get diabetes, while we’re making assumptions completely justified by a single bit of information.

All I’m saying is that my opinion is based on the fact that all the mathmaticians I know are smart.

you’re obviously not.

I mean, you can’t even spell mathematician.

Thank god for spellcheckers, eh?

Thank god you have nothing better to do with your time than criticise people twice as intelligent as you. Have you got diabetes yet? Try drinking some more, so the alcohol will metabolise into sugars and give it to you faster.

Do I need to remind you once again when someone farts in the room it is polite to fan your nose and ignore it but you should never address the flatulent directly.

Someone must have had beans for dinner last night.

seriously.

craigslist rant & rave would be another good choice.

First of all, most conservatives excel in the hard sciences (math, physics, chemistry, etc.) where there are absolutes and facts, while most liberals gravitate towards soft sciences (sociology, etc.) where there are no right and wrong answers, only opinions.

1) as a physics graduate student, I can tell you that the politics of the hard sciences are outrageously liberal – particularily when it comes to science policy, which conservatives repeatedly shit on. The only place in academia where you’ll find “conservatives” is in engineering departments, and that’s just because they’re in it for the cash.

2) while soft sciences are certainly less absolute, it’s outrageous to degrade these peoples’ work by calling it “opinon”. Not all opinions are created equally, and the “opinions” of the soft science are based on research and careful analysis.

Thirdly, you’re confusing conservatives with religious fundamentalists who only vote with us because they refuse to vote with the atheists and religious persecutors.

HAHAHA!! Christian persecution!!! HA! Last time I checked, I still can’t buy booze on Sunday.

There are the anti-science religious fundamentalist, but there are also the coporate influences that also supress some science. I’ll show you by mentioning “global warming”.

You’ll get a whole lot of blah about “Global Cooling” and/or “Where are the hurricanes”? But, the only reason that these “conservatives” do not agree with 99% of the climate scientists is because of a concerted effort by Exxon to put the kibosh on it.

Science does not work in absolutes. They look at the evidence, and make theories that best describe this evidence. They also test to see if their theories hold. As more information comes along, the theories become more accurate as they change to reflect the new observations.

It is this “non-absolute” nature, that individuals or groups of individuals take advantage of to refute science finding. It is the ONLY way there could be doubt in evolution is if you disregard all of the evidence that does not support your position and point to only the evidence that just does not refute it. A 1975 report on “Global Cooling” is NOT evidence against Global Warming. It was a theory that has been shown not to fill the model that we are currently experiencing. But, because Exxon does not want anything done to decrease consumption of its product, they introduced scientist to make sure there is doubt.

Douglas makes an excellent point. If maz knew anything about real science in practice he’d realise that there’s nothing absolute about it. Even mathematics is based upon a set of axioms that are assumed to be true. Let’s also not forget Gödel and the fact that some mathematical problems simply cannot be proven from within the system…

here’s a good quote:

In 1931, the Czech-born mathematician Kurt Gödel demonstrated that within any given branch of mathematics, there would always be some propositions that couldn’t be proven either true or false using the rules and axioms … of that mathematical branch itself. You might be able to prove every conceivable statement about numbers within a system by going outside the system in order to come up with new rules and axioms, but by doing so you’ll only create a larger system with its own unprovable statements. The implication is that all logical system of any complexity are, by definition, incomplete; each of them contains, at any given time, more true statements than it can possibly prove according to its own defining set of rules.

but of course, everything in math and science is so absolute and black&white, right? Just like the real world and political issues. *cough*

Also I’d like to ask an important hard-hitting question here:

Is the school board member who skinny dips hot at all?

Nevermind, here is my answer:

A resounding NO.

Ick. Thanks Tmayhem for getting back to the important issue of this thread.

I have it on good authority that tmayhem has no girlfriend, homely or otherwise, neither now nor in the past. If he had even a modicum of heterosexual tendency, he wouldn’t turn this lady down if she had shown even the slightest bit of interest. But then, there’s an awful lot of ifs, real and otherwise, in that sentence.

uh, so now you’re insinuating I’m gay? I’m not even going to justify that with an answer. But I will say this: bitch is busted and you’re desperate if you’re worked up by that.

As a Mac grad (with my pic in Sports Illustrated, in the stands, on the day we won the “longest national football losing streak” title, and as the co-chair of the “roll a pound for Springfest” group my freshman year), as the son of two Wellstone-worshipping public-school-employees, as a leader in (local) SDS by tenth grade, as an atheist, and now, thanks to a well-grounded set of economics courses of study, a confirmed conservative, I feel qualified to comment on this (dare I call it) thread.

You are all full of it.

In addition: the Mac student body will, without a doubt, have this footballer fired within the school year.

Actually, think cross between John Wayne and Cary Grant and you’d be close.

close to what? how you fantasize about looking? what you masturbate to?

ps, how’s the diabetes and alcoholism coming?

You know Wayne, I suppose you think you’re being shocking and insulting to me my saying that I have diabetes and alcoholism, but the fact is, I’m quite used to being insulted by wasichu … especially liberal ones. I’ve been called names by racists for longer than you’ve been alive. There’s a reason this forum is almost exclusively middleclass white people. If I ever invited any black or Indian friends to observe some of the discussion here, they wouldn’t be interested in coming back, I know that. My hope is that other, more mature white liberals will be offended by your racist name-calling … but I doubt it.

Alright, this is getting out of hand.

I’m putting my admin foot down. No more personal attacks will be accepted. I WILL DELETE/EDIT ANY COMMENT with a personal attack in it. You’ve been warned.

Said it before; I’ll say it again — this place is better sans politics.

I can’t wait until after Election Day.

No kidding. I tired separating the political posts from the other stuff, but there’s no way to contain it. It’s pretty boring.

I had to look again at the top of this thread, but it only took about 10 comments for it to get nasty and political. This is why I kind of want threaded comments. So that one tangent can’t destroy an entire thread.

I’m glad I got in there at number 4.

Even I’m bored of it, and I’m one of the worst offenders.

Any suggestions on how to cut this stuff out? Or at least tone it down? Institutional suggestions, not individual ones.

Set some rules and delete posts that violate them?

You can’t really babysit, because “violations” would be so subjective. WE want a place to have open conversation.

In theory I don’t like threaded comments– I always liked the randomness of comments — but maybe that will help. I think more interesting posts would help too. Maybe you need to be more agressive at that.

Look, I assumed that when you have threads labeled as “Misc Political Links” that you’re expecting, indeed inviting political give and take. Did you think a political thread would be filled with posts from people who all agreed with each other? Maybe you did, I don’t know.

Since I’m the biggest offender apparently, I will limit my posts with political commentary to those threads labeled as such. Ironically, the problem occurred in a thread labeled Misc Local Links when in fact, one of the stories was overtly political (the left-wing nut psychologist with the Mac football player son).

Here’s my commitment … if I do post here again, I will limit my political comments to threads labeled as political. If that’s not good enough, I’ll stop posting. I would hate to do that though. Most of you guys are fun to parry with and it would be too bad to have to give that up.

As Jesus said, “go to where the sinners are.” (just kidding)

I had a letter in Newsweek in 1968 supporting the two men who raised their black fists during the national anthem and I support the Mac student. The more things change…

“We’re tempting little morsels on the corporation’s fork
If we show up with the right bits and bytes, they’ll fatten us like pork
And America will stretch her maw and show us her white teeth
It’s only when it’s much too late we see the cancer underneath.”

“America Will Eat You” — Greg Brown

I think more interesting posts would help too. Maybe you need to be more agressive (sic) at that.

JD’s right!

I realize that the majority of people who post here are public school graduates who could not find their ass with both hands, but I have to wonder if there is not ONE person out there who finds the fact that three of four members of a school board that is lording over the unmitigated disaster that is the Minneapolis Public School district have thrown in the towel?

We pay BILLIONS of dollars each year into a system which these boobs have complete control over, and which produces a 50% failure to graduate rate.

Worse, the majority of the kids who DO graduate and seek higher educations are deemed deficient enough to warrant remedial education.

HELLO? Any one out there?……Anyone?

You can’t be mad at people posting passionately about politics in political threads. And, I must say, as much as Maz makes a lot of people here upset, I do like to see an opposing point of view around here. This place would be really dull if everyone just agreed with each other.

Maybe the tone at MNSpeak now is reflective of how people are feeling in the country. People are very divided, angry, and unwilling to listen to other views.

There’s at least one: I mentioned this in comment #4:
What an astonishing line in the atricle on the school board members blowing off meetings:

»» Submitted by »»» jderusha at 8:32 AM on October 25

Suggestions? Cut out the political posts. All the non-political posts become political anyway. So fucking boring. I’ve stabbed both my eyes out with my Marcus Harcus for Mayor lawn sign months ago. And come to this site a fraction as much as I used to.

And derusha, I agree there definitely needs to be differing points-of-view, but wouldn’t it be nice to have some intelligent ones?

Yes.

Dear Abby,

I’m a middle-aged public offical, who runs a city just west of the Mississipp river in the state of Minnesota, called Minneapolis. Until recently, my entire carrer as mayor of the town is on the rocks: the police department is in shambles, the public school system is falling apart, crime in neighborhoods have gone up in the last several years due to the lack of law enforcement funding, the city council is plauge with scandals by the lack of honestly among the local council members, nobody seems to get along these days at city hall, critics think I am a inept leader doing a snotty job, and special interests at the State Captiol have decided under their own egos to increase our county sales taxes for a new ballpark, paid by a rich team owner, who hates the idea for having a private-backed fund projects. And oh yes, my wife is asking me for a divorce too. Help me Abby. I honestly don’t know what I’m doing here! It seems my life is falling apart bit by bit!

Signed,

Mr. Mayor Confused (R.T. Rybek)

Maza… now wasn’t he tatemani? And didn’t people decide to ignore him?

He does exist solely to make peoples’ heads explode, but he has grown on me. Except I also wish he would shut the hell up. Then again I do like reading a variety of viewpoints.

Eh, I’ll keep skimming/skipping the political stuff and slow down on the other comments. Dulcinea and leigha, now they always have good stuff to say. And several others. I’m a fan of the smart remark.

Dear Abby, Dear Abby;

You won’t believe this
But my stomach makes noises whenever I kiss
My girlfriend tells me It’s all in my head
But my stomach tells me to write you instead

Signed

Noise-maker

I guess maz just wants to have a monopoly on being racist and bigoted.

WHY WASN’T THIS PERSONAL ATTACK EDITED OUT MATT?!

Masazapa said:
I have it on good authority that tmayhem has no girlfriend, homely or otherwise, neither now nor in the past. If he had even a modicum of heterosexual tendency, …

Because it came before my warning.

mazasapa = tatemani = dtester.

“mazasapa = tatemani = dtester.“

Damn. I was told there would be no math.

mike s, I pointed that out two months ago.

The guy has to change online identities every now and again so it appears there he’s not the lone person with informed, well-thought out ideas like “my grandfather was killed by the U.S. government a century ago, so modern day genocide is okay with me” and “mass transit is a communist plot” or “sociology is all opinion and chemists are all conservative” . . .

Bobby_b if you’re gonna RIP OFF John Prine the least you could do is credit the man.

Sigh. Typical selfish rightwigger.

God spaceman, I’m so impressed that you’ve been paying so close attention.

Once again spaceman pwns masaspaza!

U roxxor my boxxors! L33t!

Woot!

“Rip off” Prine?

Like, anybody would NOT recognize that?

He’s an icon, man. You don’t have to have citations from icons. It’s just . . . assumed. Known. Accepted.

It’d be like having to give the cite when you type “Mr. Gorbachev, bring down that wall.” The speaker is just so basic and dearly held in our collective consciousness that it’s redundant. If I typed that here, you would already know that I’m not claiming credit, that it was spoken by a giant among men.

Cuz, ya know, your flag decal won’t get you into heaven anymore . . .

.