Secrets of the City

Just when you think race relations between blacks and the city couldn’t get any worse, this has to happen.

Anti-Strib defends the police officers’ actions.

I think with the way things are going this year she would be sick of her black bothers killing each other.

Or sick of the police killing the mentally ill.

They come here to Minnenapolis to excape the violence, when we all know they just bring it with them.

Come on people! He was shot atleast 4 times! He was unarmed. How dangerous could he have been – he’s 5′2? What ever happened to using tazors?

I’ve never seen a family whose family member has been shot & killed by the police standup and say “he deserved it, he tried to get the officer’s gun”.

It’s the typical response.

There will be an investigation and the right things will flow from that.

Matt

“they”, tatemani?

Who do you mean by ‘they’ and where do ‘they’ come from?

Chicago, Indianapolis, Gary, Flint.

I think it is essential that all police forces needs to take extensive training (and not just a basic Psych 101) in dealing with people with mental disorders. This should include those with developmental disorders and certain disorders like diabetic reactions that can cause people to act irrationally. I am the parent of a schizophrenic 24 year old son, who has had assaultive episodes. Tim is also 5′3″ and weighs 150 lbs. That could have been my son that was shot. I hope there are no Minneapolis police officers around should he have a panic attack in a Target or a Metro Transit bus. The situation should have been handled a lot different.

Deetroit, East St. Louis.

Minneapolis has settled many police brutality cases and paid out millions of dollars. This means the officers usually kept their jobs. This doesn’t solve any problems. This is a very serious issue and one that isn’t being adequately addressed.

They come here to Minnenapolis to excape the violence, when we all know they just bring it with them. Nice to see other minorities can be racist pricks too. Douchebag.

They come here to Minnenapolis to excape the violence, when we all know they just bring it with them.

And then that thug culture filters to the rez and the cycle continues there too. It’s terrible.

Nice to see other minorities can be racist pricks too.

I readily admit that the biggest racists I know are “people of color” who despise whitey in greater precentages than whitey despises us. Except for maybe us injuns.

Tatemani the TROLL

I readily admit that the biggest racists I know are “people of color” who despise whitey in greater precentages than whitey despises us. Don’t you think there might be a reason for that, especially when unarmed black men are getting shot by the police? Duh. You must not get out much if those are these are the kinds of minorities you “know.”

I’ll reserve judgment on this one for a bit, but let’s keep in mind that a) the police were called to the house by the relatives because this indivdiual was acting out in violence and b) just because he is mentally ill doesn’t mean he wasn’t capable of killing someone if he got a hold of an officer’s gun. The answer is “NO!” to the question of whether they could have used pepper spray or a taser if he got a hold of a gun.

People assume right away that the officers did not try to calm him. We don’t know what they did upfront. Most likely though, adding officers to the situation only aggitated this indivdual more, but that is not the fault of the officers — they were called to a scene by the family that had reported this individual was acting violently and threatened to kill people.

But we don’t even know the full story, so why don’t we wait a bit before assigning blame?

Rules of Police Interaction:

1. Do not run away
2. Do not try to take their gun away

Of course, in this case, the first rule is don’t throw a 60 lb chunk of concrete through your neighbors window.

Case closed.

I think Tate was trying, unsuccessfully, to impersonate an earnest liberal demanding racial parity, which is, apparently, all we earnest liberals ever do.

But, seriously, Amber needs to wear an Afro wig in at least one episode.

And then that thug culture filters to the rez and the cycle continues there too. It’s terrible.

I don’t know if you were trying to be sarcastic, but you’re exactly right. It’s outrageous and sickening how this rap, gang, drug, thug culture has taken over the youths on red lake, white earth and elsewhere.

What tatemani said.

No sarcasm at all. Even when I was 15 I didn’t understand why my peers chose to worship idiots like Tupac Shakur. There’s a reason I’m rarely compelled to go back home to Leech Lake. And it ain’t the fry bread.

And the kids, with their Charleston, the petting parties, and their bathtub gin! Today’s youth is wild, I tells ya, and they’re either going to smash up their struggle buggies or end up in a life of white slavery, wearing a permanent shoulder monkey of hop and jungle jazz!

Get off my porch, you young whippersnappers! Dagnabbit!

damn racist cops, not letting someone shoot them with their own gun.

Or sick of the police killing the mentally ill.

Well, doctors won’t do it, so someone’s got to!

Oh, and, well … if a mentally ill person grabs your gun and is acting all crazy … would you really go “hey buddy let’s calm down now!”?

Because, honestly, I’m a pacifist hippie and all but I’d shoot the shit out of him.

I have a lot of respect for the MSP police. That’s got to be a hard job.

I bet the cop feels pretty bad about it. Too bad everyone is in a lather about the perp.

Drama. Some cultural cross-sections only have drama, because they have no money or power.

Also, 4 rounds is less than the whole clip, which is excessive. 4 rounds happen real quick with today’s firearms.

Also, posters on this thread who rely on sarcasm and divisive language only steel the resolve of their opponents.

Also, this is a culture thing, not a race thing. Race does not equal culture. Let’s not waste our time debating as if this was the ’60s.

The victims aunt sounds like a regular Hugo Chavez! Maybe we could coin a new word by calling a grossly exaggerated complaint a “Hugoism”?

Alternately, we could attempt some compassion for a woman whose nephew was just killed, even if we don’t agree with her, and not use her tragedy to try and score some cheap political shots.

cheap political shots like….
“Minnesota, I’m tired of my black brothers being killed by the police–and they ain’t nothin but the ku klux klan.”
this?

Let’s see, what’s the difference …

thinking … thinking…

Oh yeah, she’s the one with the dead relative, srhcb. I don’t mind if people want to disagree with her (Ialso don’t think the police ae like the KKK, and respect the hard job they do, although I suspect they could use a refresher course in dealing with the mentally ill), but using her as the setup for a dopey punchline seems gallingly insensitive.

I mean, she’s the one with the dead relative, and srhcb isn’t.

I mean, she’s the one with the dead relative, and srhcb isn’t.

srhcb is the one with the dead brain.

Tate = KKK sympathizer.

That is sick – even for you.

Holy cats, that’s a block away from my house.

A couple of notes:

1. Yes, the MPD hasn’t always done well with violent mentally ill people. But I’m not sure that has any relevance when this violent mentally ill person was trying to take the officer’s gun.

2. Yes, the City settles a lot of claims against cops. But many of these settlements are for very small amounts, and are less than the cost of taking a case to trial. If the City was to defend each and every claim based on principal rather than pragmatism, there would be a lot fewer settlements but we taxpayers would have to pay for a whole lot more assistant city attorneys.

3. I don’t know why race factors into this. Does anyone seriously believe that a white cop wouldn’t shoot a white dude who is trying to grab his gun? Or that a black cop would have been able to use some secret african-american pacifying techniques to calm this dude down?

I will close with — holy cats, that’s a block away from my house.

Mike S, very close to my house too.
I was up at that time, I’m surprised I didn’t notice all the chaos/hear the gun shots.

Race factors in because the aunt wants it to.

The racial remarks such as the ones made by the aunt of the victim are becoming way too predictable..
As much as inequality still exists in our society, I think the race card is way overplayed. And I’m a liberal.

I got a lovely race card from my black friends for Christmas.

And I’m a liberal.

Have you no shame sir? Children might be reading this.

I used to work at a PD, so I got a crash course in procedure. Cops use a force continuum. The idea is to use as little force as possible to stop the threat. It starts with speaking in a normal voice, then speaking in a command voice, then works its way up to shooting someone. Whether the cop was justified hinges on where the guy’s behavior was on the continuum. If nothing below shooting will stop the threat (because it is so severe, or the cop doesn’t have time to fuss with a taser that will probably jam anyway) then it’s justified. If he could have used his ASP (baton), the taser, or a control hold and removed the threat to himself and the people around him, then he had no right to shoot.

Police are trained to shoot in the most effective manner. They shoot until the threat is stopped (usually, when the person is on the ground). Sometimes the mentally ill or people on drugs don’t go down easy. Sometimes the cop misses. A cop can’t shoot the gun out of a suspect’s hand, or shoot them in the leg, because if they try they will miss. Try shooting a heavy gun in the dark when you’re adrenaline is going full blast, you’l see how hard it is.

Yeah, a better cop might have found another way to diffuse the situation. Or not. But I throw up a little every time someone says, “He wasn’t dangerous, he was mentally ill!” That’s the problem with mental illness- it makes otherwise docile people violent and unpredictable and freakishly strong.

You’ve got a deranged, strung out shithead who is throwing chunks of concrete through neighbors windows, threatening to kill the people in his house and the neighbors next door, screaming and carrying on like some wild uncontrollable idiot, fleeing from police when they arrive and to top it all off, grabbing for a police officer’s firearm…..and people are upset that this loser was shot and killed by the MPD??? JOB WELL DONE, MPD!

Honestly, I’m sick of this shit. Same stupid kneejerk reaction from the “community”: police are evil KKK members. sigh.

You know what? I don’t give a shit if someone’s mentally ill, if they fight with the cops, and they get shot, that’s their fault. I MEAN HE GRABBED THE OFFICER’S GODDAMN GUN!@!!!!! I’d certainly hope the police would shoot in that situation.

I’m not saying that police brutality doesn’t exist, because I know it does, and a lot of cops are asshats. But when the “community” cries about whenever the police shoot anyone, especially in a case where there was an obvious struggle between the police and the suspect and the suspect grabbed the officer’s goddamn gun, I begin not to care about the issue at all.

Just think about it this way: you’re a cop. Some mental dude is coming after you all crazy talking about killing people and grabs your partner’s gun. What do you think his intentions are?!!! What are you supposed to do? ASK HIM POLITELY TO PUT IT DOWN!?!?! WTF!! Grabbing a police officer’s gun is simply a fatal mistake. Doesn’t matter if you’re mental or not.

Yep. Mentally ill=loser=shithead.

Look, he was having a psychotic episode and needed to be stopped, I agree, but, for fuck’s sake, the guy was sick. This should be treated as the tragedy it is, and not some sort of humorous anecdote that can be enjoyed by armchair commentators. Have some fucking respect. I’m sure the cops who did it aren’t giving each other high fives and congratulating themselves for taking another lowlife off the street.

msparber:

Actually, many of us WOULD treat this as more of a tragedy if not for the absolutely hilarious response put forth by the relatives of the aforementioned guy. Their stupidity is basically overshadowing any sort of respect for the sick man’s life and turning it into a circus.

I agree. And yet, some feel that this makes it okay to kick the corpse, a fact I find shocking in its inhumanity. I can only presume these comments are coming from people who have no experience with friends or relatives who are mentally ill.

After watching video reports from FOX9 and WCCO, I have to wonder about how much these relatives really cared about this guy and how much was his welfare truly their concern? Did this family ever try to make sure he got some sort of treatment for his mental illness? Did his family ever try to have him put in a facility where he could be watched 24/7 if he was that much of a threat to others? Was he taking any medications for his psychotic outbursts?

I get the impression that relatives didn’t give a shit about this guy until the police came in contact and killed him because he put an officers’ life in danger by grabbing a firearm which I feel justifies an officer’s shooting to kill to defend his own life!

The woman who disrupted the briefing was an absolute embarrassment! She seemed more interested in fanning racial and police brutality flames because news cameras were there than she was in seeking answers to this shooting! Sure, she was upset, but do you really think that screaming “cops are KKK” is going to help you?? As far as “being tired of having black brothers being killed by cops”, well, why not teach your black brothers personal responsibility for your actions…..resolving disputes WITHOUT A GUN…..being civilized with other people…..earn a living instead of stealing, robbing or killing for a living…..hmm? Young black men + a gun + a belligerent attitude towards others = getting your ass shot and killed!

I have dead relatives too. My cousin was killed in a violent act with at least some racial overtones. Neither I, nor my aunt, nor any other relative or community organization went before the media to blame anybody, although the killer was never apprehended.

You know, I think part of the disconnect is coming from the fact that for some African-Americans, everything is about race. They don’t get served when they want to, it’s because of racism. The bus driver refuses to accept an expired bus pass, it’s becase he’s a racist. People like this are in the minority, from my experience, but there are a few out there.

In the meanwhile, it’s sort of alarming how many white people think we’re in apost-racism world, and that no charges of racism ever have any merit. So you have some people who are crying wolf, and some people who wouldn’t believe you if the wold were standing above them, brandishing a steak knife and a bottle of A1 Sauce.

I personally think this is far more about mental illness than it is about racism, and I suspect scoste may be partially right that that the mental illness might not have been properly addressed before the shooting. Cops aren’t the only ones who aren’t very good at dealing with the mentally ill — fellow family members can be just as guilty.

But this is just a suspicion, and not based on any evidence.

are we sure this guy was “mentally ill” anyway? i’ve been out of the loop for a day or so, but are we just taking his aunt’s word on this? again, i’m just asking if his mental condition has been verified.

compubox,

According to a story in today’s Pioneer Press, it states that this guy was suffering from “undiagnosed and untreated depression” and was “feeling pressured by family and financial circumstances”. That really doesn’t sound to me like a case of someone who has a mental illness, but more like a guy who didn’t bother to deal with his everyday problems that built up to a point where he just lost it instead of seeking help to get over his problems.

His relatives continue to lie to the press as well. They are claiming that this guy has never been arrested and was a model of perfect behavior, but the paper found out that he was arrested last year in Apple Valley on a charge of misdemeanor assault….apparently he got violent enough to kick and beat the shit out of a woman he was living with ….what a sweetheart he is!

The more that comes out of the mouths of his relatives, black leaders, etc… the more that I feel the cops acted in the only possible manner they could!

Well, that does sound a little iffy.

I personally think this is far more about mental illness than it is about racism

To me, this was about a poor person getting shot because they’re too poor to afford medicine for themselves, and/or they have no family to give them medicine.

It happens to poor people of all different races.

I know it’s a little late here but I would like to add that i was a witness to part of this shooting as it occured just 5 doors down from my house.

First off, even though the family was the ones that called the cops, the second they showed up and the pursuit all the sister could do was say over and over “IT’S MY BROTHER! HE’S HAVING AN EPISODE! PLEASE DON’T SHOOT HIM! DON’T SHOOT HIM!” all the way up to the point that they shot him.

I didn’t see the actual shooting as I was headed to the back thinking that the victim was going to make a break for it through the alley (obviously he didn’t) but between the time that the police rolled up and they shot him had to have been no more than 15-20 seconds. Is that really enough time to talk through a situation with someone who’s obviously not mentally stable?

I can’t say I saw and understand everything but shooting a man six times (yes, I heard 6 shots) seems very very excessive. I can’t say that it’s race mental but it all seems very suspicious. Why didn’t they shoot to incapacitate as opposed to killing him?

scoste for Mayor!

Thanks for the endorsement, bud jr, but having the position of mayor in this town is really nothing more than being a political eunuch with some public relations skills, whereas the real power lies with city council president (Barb Johnson) and council members.

Yeah, a guy can dream though, can’t he?

Sure, keep on dreamin’…..the moment a human being can no longer dream, he’s as good as dead! It’s one of those wonderful abilities we have to get us through those tricky little rough spots in life.

a) danapp: police absolutely do not shoot to incapacitate. It doesn’t work and they are never trained to do this. This is TV myth.

b) just about all violent individuals that any police officer deals with have “severe emotional problems” as the 911 caller reported in this case. That does not mean it requires the dispatch of a crisis intervention officer nor does the department have resources to do so.

c) it is very easy to armchair this now, but everything happened in a matter of seconds. Police act based on the initial information they have and then have to react to dynamic, intense situations. Human perceptions heavily factor in: just look at the fact that the sister reported 4 shots, danapp (a witness) reports 6 shots, and the police are reporting 7.

d) the family should be allowed to grieve, and it should also be acknowledged that people dealing with tragic, traumatic circumstances sometimes do and say things that don’t make sense otherwise. To me, the question is not so much with the family, as with the media. Can the story be effectively told without blaring the “police are KKK” line repeatedly?

e) Ministers and activists have every right to ask questions, and they should be calling for an outside investigation by another agency. However, when Rev. Devin Miller, who is with a group that has the supposed mission of “trying to bridge the gap between citizens and police” says that “There was no reason for the shooting, and we firmly believe they intended to shoot him to death,” he is making a bold assertion with an incomplete set of facts and does a complete disservice to his community.

These ubiquitous and alleged “reverends” who pose as ‘community leaders’ are nothing but thug apologists.

They have absolutley no standing to comment on police procedure.

Astounding. Absolutely astounding.