Secrets of the City

I think while we’re at it, we should build anybody with a mediocre business plan anything they want in the area. If some guy wants to sell beer and food but really doesn’t know how to pack the customers in, Hennepin County can build his restaurant for him. If somebody needs a t-shirt stand but doesn’t even know anything about where his suppliers are going to come from, we should give him a million dollars.

Basically, if somebody says it’s going to make us all rich but is afraid to assume any of the risk (or profits), it sounds like a great investment to me.

I don’t want to see them change their mind on a roof. I’ve been to retractable roof stadiums. They’re ugly.

While I’m excited about the new stadium, I have to admit that I’m a little bummed about the amount of attention & renewal that is now going into the seedy west end of downtown…walking through the Target A ramp & then down Glenwood reminds me of the walks we used to take from downtown Detroit to Tiger Stadium. A little edgy, but nothing bad ever happened to us, even as kids.

Lee’s Liquor Lounge is totally going to cash in…looks like I’m gonna need to find a new post-work bar on game days. 10 years from now they’ll have a Joe Mauer shrine next to the existing Elvis shrine.

The Farmers Market should be opened to tailgaiters before every night game. The smell of charcoal grills will hopefully overpower the smell of the incinerator.

Whoever owns the Ford Centre north of the stadium site is also laughing all the way to the bank….can the roof be retro-fitted with bleachers like the houses on Waveland Ave by Wrigley??? Although the first step might be to install central air

But what do you think dumping any plan for a roof?

What do I want? My tax money back.

I am sure that you guys have all seen this rendering, all i have to say is that it looks pretty AWESOME!

I’m hoping for nice housing. I bought my place last year with the anticipation that when I want to move out in 5-7 years my second place would be in Twinsville.

How about all the sour apples just stay out of this thread.
We have heard your bitching, it’s not going to change anything.
Let’s make the best of things and make the best of an awesome opportunity!

Melts your heart.

There is already a baseball stadium with a roof, like, 3 rail stops down.

I agree, Rod. I’m excited to see that part of the city get connected to downtown. I was in Milwaukee when they shut down county stadium and opened Miller Park, and the only complaint about Miller Park today is that it should have been built in downtown.

I really wish they’d keep a little open space and build a little league field. They have a field in the parking lot of Miller Park, and it’s so cool for kids to be able to play baseball in the shadow of the major league park.

So does that mean you want a roof on the new one?

So does that mean you want a roof on the new one?

It depends on who’s paying for it.

Simpleton: the stakes may be different, but whether it’s the war in Iraq, or a new stadium for the Twins, but the eventual failure is not a “point and laugh” situation.

I just hope there are some good restaurants instead of the burgers and fries crap the Timberwolves fans seem to demand on First Avenue.

… so “shut up and just go along with it” doesn’t do it for me now, either.

but the eventual failure is not a “point and laugh” situation

What the fuck are you talking about?

We have heard your bitching, it’s not going to change anything.
Let’s make the best of things and make the best of an awesome opportunity!

Ah, if only everyone could think this way. We wouldn’t even need an elected body (or referendums) to vote on stuff like this anymore. It would be like some baseball-loving authoritarian dreamland.

How exactly do you propose we all “make the best of an awesome opportunity”? Should we all get out there and say taxation without representation is okay with me as long as I get my big foam #1 finger and a cold brew once in a while?

awesome opportunity!

Taxation without representation is awesome! *devil horns*

Should we all get out there and say taxation without representation is okay with me as long as I get my big foam #1 finger and a cold brew once in a while?

That’s exactly what that hypocrite Soucheray said.

Did you vote in the last election?

Then you have representation! Period! That is the way the government works. Did you contact your representitive at the state and local level and express your opinions?

If you don’t like the system try to change it, run for office, support a candidate that represents your personal views.

DON’T BITCH ABOUT IT ON A MESSAGE BOARD!

I think the point is– the stadium has passed, it’s not going to change, so maybe it’s time to move beyond the same arguments we’ve been hearing for ten years, and move on to arguing over something else.

Condos or apartments?
Bars or restaurants?
How about a Twins Hall of Fame?
What kind of retail would be cool there?

Better yet! Call for a recall election of all your officials!
You have recourse. To say you have no representation is bullshit.

Wipe your ass, pull up your pants and get on with your life.
Everything isn’t going to go the way you think it should.
I sort of feel sorry for you. Being bitter and sad is no way to go through life!

Bah, I haven’t bveen able to muster up much interest in baseball since the Millers closed up shop.

Did you vote in the last election?

Then you have representation! Period!

Actually, no it’s not. The referendum was set in place in our state constitution. Only the legislature can override it, which they did. The one and only reason they overrode the referendum is because they knew it would be shot down if it were left up to voters. Hence, voters are not represented in this situation.

Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life either, son.

Did you vote in the last election?

Actually, no it’s not. The referendum was set in place in our state constitution. Only the legislature can override it, which they did. The one and only reason they overrode the referendum is because they knew it would be shot down if it were left up to voters. Hence, voters are not represented in this situation.

Again, I think this goes back to Simpleton’s point. Those who were voted into office, the legislature, used the power they had to override the referendum.

I’m not necessarily happy about the whole stadium outcome, but I don’t believe the ‘taxation without representation’ argument is valid.

I was thinking last night as I was sitting in traffic between Lake Calhoun and Hennpin Avenue that there sure are a lot of condos going up in that neighborhood, and a lot more downtown, and already the traffic is at a standstill. We better get some better solution for transport between uptown and downtown before it gets too much worse.

Bob, isn’t uptown the worst area in town for air pollution, too?

So, my vote: a train up Hennepin Ave to the new stadium.

No, the way to go through life is to be a billionaire who can get public handouts by making the state legislature betray it’s own constitution and the people. That’s ace.

I don’t believe the referendum is in the constitution, I believe it is statute. The legislature cannot override the constitution in that way.

Jason’s right. It’s happening. What do we want to see? I want a new neighborhood. And I want them to tear down that awful brown skyscraper. Besides being incredibly ugly, it blocks out the Wells Fargo tower and the Halo building, two of the best looking buildings in the skyline. Who wants to look at that piece of crap the whole game?

I’d like to see them put in a garbage incinerator.

oh wait.

What do I want to see in Twinsville? An above 500 baseball team!

(Oh. Ouch. I kid the Twins. But the team’s performance could prove relevant, as the article on Baltimore’s stadium situation poins out…)

I would love to see some homes in the mix down there for families. Maybe townhomes in the brownstone style. I think there needs to be some housing stock in downtown for people with a kid or two. How cool would it be to grow up right by the ballpark?

Simpleton: the last time the county board was up for election, they hadn’t taken up the stadium at all. I voted in that election, and my county commissioner is AGAINST the constituent bypass.

It is great that the Hiawatha line will be extended to the stadium.

What is not so great is that the Northstar commmuter line that will pick up from Hiawatha and run north to Big Lake will not have a stop in NE Mpls. That line goes from downtown all the way to Fridley before it stops.

The stop in NE was elminated because the federal government providing a chunk of funds for the project thought it would be underused.

As one of the City Pages’ bloggers, Jack Sparks, put it, think of all the great bar hopping, rock show seeing could go on along the Hiawatha to the Northstar if there was a stop in NE Mpls.

http://blogs.citypages.com/jsparks/2006/05/zzzzzwhat_i_cou.asp

Ok, here is what I would like in Twinsville for my enjoyment:
margaritas and real lemonade (with a lemon in it, sort of like cherry lemonade at fairs) like in Kansas City, jalapeno stuffed sausages and complicated nachoes like in Milwaukee, and back bacon sandwhiches like in Toronto. Also chilli fries, cup holders and a heart defibrillator in each section.

Isn’t the Northstar commuter line supposed to only run twice a day? So we’re talking bar-hopping at like…8 AM and then again at 5 PM, Monday through Friday? I’m in!

Preemptive meta-bitching seems to have had the opposite of the desired effect.

Try all you want to say it’s not “taxation without representation”, the fact is that a significant majority of Hennepin County taxpayers are against having this sales tax put on their backs. Being elected into office isn’t a mandate to do whatever you want, especially something of this magnitude. Whether or not a recall would have done any good is within the arcane details of the state bill, which was largely passed by legislators we can’t recall.

Maybe Iowa can pass a sales tax increase on Minnesotans to pay for the MOA expansion. It amounts to the same thing as the other 66 counties levying a Hennepin County sales tax.

But who cares? Let’s distract ourselves with peanuts and crackerjack!

DeRusha – Your pleas for civility and forward thinking have fallen on deaf ears.

I hope this HUGE BOONDOGGLE never gets built.

I pray the that GODS OF SOUR APPLES determine the are is unfit after the land study is complete.

If this HUGE TAXPAYER RAPE is built…

I hope all of you PRO STADIUM NAZI’S get mugged and rained on opening day.

What an INCREDIBLE WASTE of Money when so many more CRITICAL ITEMS go underfunded and unpaid for.

SHAME on you PRO STADIUM NAZI’s.

SHAME!

“But who cares? Let’s distract ourselves with peanuts and crackerjack!”

Major League cities take these steps all the time. It’s nothing new, and there are people in government who know that the downside to losing a team is difficult to make up.

You won’t even notice the cost. It’s a non-factor.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, being pro-stadium is JUST like being a Nazi.

Is this a political rant thread? I thought the question was about what we wanted in and around the ballpark.

You gonna tousle my hair next? Give me a lollypop and an autographed baseball? Gee whiz, father does indeed know best!

I’d rather have some juice in my veins, an aluminum bat, and 10 minutes in a locked room with Mike Opat. Hell, and an eyepatch, Kirby style.

Godwin’s law!!!!!

You know, I’m firmly against the way this stadium was railroaded through, and I blogged to that effect, wrote to legislators throughout the state, and placed calls to anyone and everyone with any influence that I know. But it’s done. It’s over. It’s time to move on and find some new cause to take up.

So what do I want to see around the stadium? Solid transit infrastructure. Family friendly housing that isn’t insanely priced, green space, a plaza that lends itself to real ongoing public use, and as much local flavor as possible.

And hot dog carts offering great saurkraut for your dog/brat as far as the eye can see

I propose anyone who doesn’t like the stadium take the Nazi train to Omaha, where I hear it’s warmer.

Hey Raindog, you left out the Guthrie, library, MPR, Orchestra, MIA, diversity, and TPT Nazis.

Would it be possible to start a new thread where all of you who insist on bitching about political issues can go and bitch away? I’m not saying your points are invalid, or even unwarranted (on both sides of the issue), but they really don’t have shit to do with what this thread was started for.

In the meantime, whoever wants folk to get mugged for going to a ballgame…you’re sick, twisted, and not even a little bit funny.

As for what I would like to see around the stadium…family housing would be great, a space which lends itself to tailgating, plenty of green space, and as was stated before, a good local flavor. Maybe they should serve state fair corn dogs at the games! I love those things. I also think they should erect statues of Twins greats around the stadium entrances.

By the way…does anyone have any clue what the name of the stadium will be? I hope it isn’t some corny corporation name.

All right all you meat heads…bitch away.

whoasister, we moved over here.

I’d like to see a poutine stand, personally. Actually I’d like to see a poutine stand downtown, regardless of what happens with the new stadium.

“I hope it isn’t some corny corporation name.”

They’ll sell naming rights. Too much money to turn that down.

Get General Mills to fork over the money for Wheaties Field

No new stadiums : no professional sports teams :: Minneapolis : flyover country

Just the way it is. Once the Twins and Vikings are gone, any cache that this city has managed to build over the last 10 years will be gone in a poof.

Hey look, I stayed out of this one!

I also want to second erica’s call for poutine. We’re so close to canada, why can’t we have the delectable french-canadian treat here? I know quebec is a bit more easterly, but please! So good!

Thanks for repeating the billionaire’s talking points. My self-esteem and quality of have little to do with how far some steriod freak can throw a ball.

how far some steriod freak can throw a ball.

Are we getting professional road bowling team?

as for minnesota being flyover country, uh, dude, it’s called geography. you think folks are visiting or moving here based on whether there’s a pro ballclub or two? yikes. you’re hanging with a strange crowd. or maybe no crowd, just got ESPN2 turned up way loud down in ma’s basement. the “cache” (it’s cachet) that mpls has built over the last ten years has nothing to do with the (mostly pathetic) teams here and everything to do with a lively arts scene, reasonable housing costs, good universities, semi-healthy economy, etc. sports? way down the list.

real people like to go to a ballgame now and then but having pro teams doesn’t make a city great. Quick, name the best team in Paris, Berlin, Amsterdam, Rome….bzzzzt. sorry, time’s up.

anyway, to stick with the thread….if they have to build the billionaires a ballpark then i’d like to see a neighborhood around it that generates some streetlife on the 300+ days a year there’s no game. don’t stick the city with a concrete zone of death. make the area walkable, include retail and restaurants that are pedestrian friendly. light rail access helps a ton.

limit the number of chain restaurants, keep choices local and interesting. keep prices reasonable. lots of greenspace so folks will hang out and/or stroll. people like to watch people, so create places for picnics, games, other excuses to hang out. Soccer fields, little league fields, an ice rink, etc.

I just learned about road bowling the other day. That’s a new way to pubcrawl for me!

If we could get on the Downhill Cheese Racing Circuit then you know the twin cities have become a major metropolitan center!

Now THAT I could get behind!

My self-esteem and quality of have little to do with how far some steriod freak can throw a ball.

Oh, you’re so wrong. Without overpaid professional sports players, the Twin Cities will only be left with excellent education, health care, art, a dozen Fortune 500 companies, world-class hunting/fishing within 100 miles, one of the best music scenes in the country and an extremely low unemployment rate. Where will you and your self-esteem be then, huh?

That’s right, in the gutter with Omaha.

Lay off Omaha! It’s the best city in Nebraska! Oh wait, that doesn’t say much…

No new stadiums : no professional sports teams :: Minneapolis : flyover country

That’s not what Richard Florida seems to think. If that was true, I think I’d kill myself out of shame that I’m part of a society that places such value on complete silliness such as professional sports teams, instead of community-oriented, participatory, cultural activities…

If you don’t like the system try to change it, run for office, support a candidate that represents your personal views.

DON’T BITCH ABOUT IT ON A MESSAGE BOARD!

While I sure hope people voted, simpleton, democracy involves more than just that – it involves discussion, debate, and the like. One way to get your way is to convince others that you’re right. And an forum such as this one is an excellent place. What else would it be for, anyways?

I thought a mention in Convoy was the best thing about Omaha!

Convoy! Ah, 10-4, Pig Pen, what’s your twenty?
Convoy! OMAHA? Well, they oughta know what to do with them hogs out there fer shure. Well, mercy
Convoy! sakes, good buddy, we gonna back on outta here, so keep the bugs off your glass and the bears off your…
Convoy! tail. We’ll catch you on the flip-flop. This here’s the Rubber Duck on the side.
Convoy! We gone. ‘Bye,’bye.

Incidentally, there are 81 home games in a baseball season. So that’d be 284 days without a game.

jeffyk…I just get fed up with the same 3-4 people being total Debbie Downers every single day in here. You would think they have WIFI at the St Peter Security Hospital.

“I think I’d kill myself out of shame that I’m part of a society that places such value on complete silliness such as professional sports teams, instead of community-oriented, participatory, cultural activities…”

Well, the complete silliness has a couple of generations of entertainment and enjoyment for people. I don’t know what the sin is there.

And who’s saying that its done at the expense of other activities that he deems more culturally important? And who the hell is he to say?

There’s public cultural projects endowed to the hilt that have sprung up in the last year. They don’t seem to be suffering. I saw a video at the Walker of a guy moaning and pushing paint with his face, and a Yoko Ono product of a talking butt on a treadmill. I guess when I don’t understand stuff like that, it’s my fault. But my wife won’t set foot in the place anymore.

I’m willing to concede that since the topic here is “what do you want in twinsville?”, perhaps the time to complain is over. I just had to take issue with the sentiment that voting was the only ingredient to democracy.

I saw a video at the Walker of a guy moaning and pushing paint with his face, and a Yoko Ono product of a talking butt on a treadmill.

You didn’t like that? That’s my favorite exhibit!

Point taken that art isn’t for everyone. But I’d still much rather see money spent to, say, fund club baseball teams and venues for that – a situation where people interact with each other and get exercise – than fund 20 professional entertainers (I hate when professional sports are regarded as anything but that). Or even more practically, health care, planning initiatives… gosh I dunno, I just find it hard to believe we could create more interesting, unique things with that kind of cash.

I’d like to add that another important part of democracy is letting those elected officials who represent you actually know what you, the constituent, thinks about various issues. Just because you voted for someone in the past doesn’t mean they magically know exactly what the people who voted for them want all the time. It doesn’t mean they’ll listen to the people even if they do know, either, but at least throw them a bone! If you say people should ’shut up because you voted for them’ then you’re encouraging taking only a reactionary stance to politics. If we only react to policy by voting out those pols who didn’t vote the way we wanted them to, we’re stuck with up to several years of having to deal with their crappy decisions because they don’t know any better.

So I see nothing at all wrong with having public debate about topics, even if we ‘already elected’ the politicians to vote on our behalf.

This is similar to the LRT debate.

We could fund/build/create other things like bus rapid transit, club baseball etc but is that what people want?

NO! They want trains not buses.
They want to see millionaires run around bases.
They want to watch reality TV.

It’s total LCD but hell isn’t that what America is all about?

“Point taken that art isn’t for everyone.”

I love art for its beauty. That was pretentious and insulting.

Lowest Common Denominator is fine for TV but pretty cynical for public policy. I can’t argue that they want to see millionaires run around bases (although we’ll never know exactly how much, since there was no referendum), but damned if I don’t want to change them.

real people like to go to a ballgame now and then but having pro teams doesn’t make a city great. Quick, name the best team in Paris, Berlin, Amsterdam, Rome….bzzzzt. sorry, time’s up.

oofda, having a fine art scene, affordable housing, etc does indeed make the city a better place to live but,having Major League Sports franchises should also be included. Not only does it bring revenue to the area, it creates discussions such as these, city and state pride, and just general good times. I like going to museums now and then, but i’d rather spend my time at a ball game.
As far as Paris, Berlin, Amsterdam, Rome… they may not have major league baseball teams but they do all have soccer teams that draw more fans to games then the Twins or Vikings do any day.

Paris St. Germain
Amsterdam AFC Ajax
AS Roma
Hertha Berlin

Boofda, you beat me to it, but I prefer Lazio in Rome.

“real people like to go to a ballgame now and then but having pro teams doesn’t make a city great. Quick, name the best team in Paris, Berlin, Amsterdam, Rome….bzzzzt. sorry, time’s up.”

Boofda – All those cities are home some the richest pro soccer teams in the world; outside of London, Madrid and Manchester of course.

Without professional sports, Minneapolis would just be a colder Omaha. Colder and possessing less emo kids.

I just finished writing a mediocre novel and am probably going to have trouble getting it published. I wonder if you good folks in Minneapolis could publish it for me, using taxpayer dollars. We’ll split the profits of any movie version, kaff kaff.

If Man U wanted to tear down the entire town and build a complex honoring the team it would pass referendum.

BTW…do you really want referendums to decide all public policy?
I can’t imagine how shitty MN would be in a few years.

Some states, notably California, decide an awful lot by referendum. Who’s to say that’s a bad thing?

In the end, a people who don’t safeguard their democracy, who will give it away in return for entertainment, won’t have their democracy for long. Our democracy is already slipping away, and we didn’t have all that much to start with. If you don’t realize that public policy is already largely shaped by corporations… well, I don’t know what to say except good luck.

BTW…do you really want referendums to decide all public policy?

Well, that is democracy after all.

“I just finished writing a mediocre novel and am probably going to have trouble getting it published. I wonder if you good folks in Minneapolis could publish it for me, using taxpayer dollars.”

Garrison Keillor once did a bit about a program for writers modeled after the Payment In Kind Program that paid farmers not grow crops. All the written material was kept in bins around the state and a writers got a check.

Got yourself a Coming of Age in Rural Minnesota novel? Good luck. They got a pile of ‘em in Bin Number 18 outside of Brainard.

Go to the top and read this thread once through and you’ll understand why rule by referendum is a horrifying prospect. Read it through twice and you’ll start wishing for a house of lords.

“Some states, notably California, decide an awful lot by referendum. Who’s to say that’s a bad thing?”

I don’t envy California for it’s initiative and referendum freedoms.

Last time I checked we don’t live in a country with a true democracy.

You must have been asleep during your civics class.

We have a Liberal Democracy.

Sorry I don’t think there is a Conservative Democracy.

I know the referendum/initiative system is broken, but there’s a statute in place saying we’re entitled to a referendum, and the county commissioners (most of them elected in 2002) don’t have the mandate to leave this kind of legacy. They never even had to face a vote on their seats.

We just had a legislature say that *Minnesota* needs the Twins, but guess who’s paying for it?

And boo fucking hoo about the Debbie Downers, Pollyanna.

professional sports is nothing more than modern-day tribalism

This is a good reason why I’d cancel my subscription to the Star-Tribune. They’re nothing but a PR mouthpiece by the MN Twins, Carl Polhad, and Jerry Bell. They’re continuing to create spin, lies, and fallicy arguments, just to shove the entire stadium issue down voters throats and the local taxpayer in general. Personally, I’m sick of it!!

Who’s paying for it?

From what I know, The Twins will pay $130 million plus cost overruns, and anyone who graces Hennepin County with their presence

Which includes
NBA teams
NFL teams
MLB teams
Packer fans
Hawkeyes fans
Conventions (Possibly 2008 Dems or Republicans)
Anyone who flies in from out of the State or Country to visit MOA
and so much more.

While I would have like to have Pohlad forced to contribute maybe 50%instead of 30%. I don’t think Pohlad should be paying 100% for a something he’s not going to own.

Minnesotans are still getting a better deal on this than most places that have built new stadiums.

On the contrary, if Pohlad paid 100% he WOULD own the stadium. That would increase the value of the Twins considerably! He could even name the ballpark after himself. After all that is what happened in the good old days of Wrigley Field and Fenway Park…

But like a shrewed businessman, he’s not going to do that if he doesn’t have to. Would you rather have several hundred million dollars in your estate or a baseball stadium with your name on it? He probably considers this deal a way of taking care of his family.

And he can’t take a stadium with him.

After all this time, and all times I’ve been angry at him, I now hope the old guy lives long enough to see it built. I know he’d like that.

Actually Fenway Park isn’t named for a person, but rather for the nearby Backbay Fens (a windy little park that follows the Muddy River).

Fenway Park is the home ballpark for the Boston Red Sox baseball club. It is located near, and named for, the Fenway neighborhood in the heart of Boston, Massachusetts, USA, which in turn is named for the nearby fens, or marshes. Its name comes from when former owner John I. Taylor said, “It’s in the Fenway section of Boston, isn’t it? Then name it Fenway Park.”

wikipedia

One more time, for those who missed it in 6th grade. We live in a Democratic Republic. It is not a democracy. We elect people who make decisions. In a Democracy, people vote directly.

By the way, is the democracy we decided to bypass for the Twins stadium the same democracy we’re fighting to bring to our brethern in Iraq?

What are the odds that a portion of the “fans” at the game tonight boo Pawlenty when he signs the stadium bill? The ones who say “I love the Twins — but it’s too much for me to part with pocket change every year for this stadium.”

The But-Monkeys are the most annoying. If you think MLB is stupid and the people who watch should be doing that you think is more enlightening, in your estimation, fine. But don’t ever call yourself a fan.

to boofda and others who pointed out so cleverly that the great cities of the world do indeed have pro teams and then proceeded to prove that they could use google to learn the names of those soccer teams:

duh.

i thought the point was pretty obvious, but i guess it needs stating more direct-like.

sure, the great cities of the world have stadia and pro teams but the cities aren’t great BECAUSE of the teams. nobody says ‘honey, let’s move to paris…st. germain is having a terrific year!” and conversely nobody says ‘let’s get the hell out of this stinking hellhole…the ajax boys got demoted!’

cities don’t rise and fall based on their sports franchises. there hasn’t been an NFL team in LA since whenever but the city hasn’t been relegated to some kind of second-class status because of that lack.

what do i want in twinsville? kiosks with free geography lessons, a giant billboard mocking yoko ono’s buttocks, a spam-throwing trebuchet aimed at Des Moines, a grind-yer-own sausage stand. oh, and a mink urinal.

What is wrong with you people? You act like this ballpark is an idol or a false god for public worship. Jesus god! Get a life! No wonder we have a huge problem with Government pork spending these days. I mean, look at the deal. It’s a bridge to nowhere! Yet, this what happens when big Government get’s out of hand. Please, no more guy toys! I think we have enough.

cities don’t rise and fall based on their sports franchises. there hasn’t been an NFL team in LA since whenever but the city hasn’t been relegated to some kind of second-class status because of that lack.

No, it’s been relegated to second-class status for many, more worthwhile reasons. Like Hollyweird is there for example.

“Please, no more guy toys! I think we have enough. “

Tonight: Twins 3 Mariners 1

Jesus, what’s striking is that people act like it’s out of the ordinary for the government or a subdivision thereof to support big business when, in fact, it is the norm. I’m wondering what the city of Richfield provided Best Buy to build its HQ at 494 and 35W, or Brookly Park will provide Target to relocate, or Eagan to Thomson West when they moved out there. I mean, get real. I’m glad they are going to build the stadium because I consider it and the team to be community assets. Plus, the the deal seems relatively painless. Like it or not, sports franchises are the public face of your city. But make no mistake, they are businesses, and they will go wherever the they can get the best deal, be it in Minnesota or elsewhere.

A special SHOUT OUT to all you Stadium Nazi’s for doing your part to get T-Paw re-elected!

Idiots.

Nazi’s? Idiots? What the hell is the matter with you?

L.A. lost football. That’s true. But LA/OC has 6 other pro sports franchises. Something tells me if the Dodgers or Lakers had a problem, it would get fixed real quick.

For the sake of argument, say the Twins don’t get their new digs and they pack up and leave or are contracted. History tells me Minnesotans would scream bloody murder and then 10 to 15 years from now someone will come up with a plan to bring baseball back.

At a much steeper price.

BrianP: I’m wondering what the city of Richfield provided Best Buy to build its HQ at 494 and 35W…

IIRC, Richfield used eminent domain to take the land, and then financed the deal with tax-increment financing. Not so much dissent over that, though–maybe protesting against taking people’s houses is less trendy than protesting against building a stadium on a parking lot?

That’s what I was talking about. I wonder if over the long haul it will turn out to be a good deal for Richfield, though. My guess is it probably will be very good.

The problem with TIF is that — if I remember correctly — any property taxes collected in the TIF district are capped at what were collected before the redevelopment. The excess goes to pay for the redevelopment. That means that the brand new Best Buy campus doesn’t directly benefit Richfield or its schools. The upside would come from development around the campus. So it’s a boon, but not as much as it would be if Best Buy had financed and built its own campus.

The only one to truly benefit from the Twins Billion Dollar Stadium is Smiling Carl Pohlad.

And that’s a fact.

Morons.

Raindog – Either you are very bored and are resorting to silly name calling to get a rise out of people, or perhaps calling people you disagree with Nazis, idiots, and morons is what you consider normal discourse. The former is just plain sad, the later is pitiful and is an example of someone who should lighten up a little.

On L.A., don’t forget they have USC and UCLA football, which do pretty well.

Who benefits?
Pohlad
Hennepin Co.
Sports fans-casual or hardcore

All will be paying a good chunk for the ballpark

Who benefits if the Twins leave or are contracted?
Pohlad adds to his millions and rides into the sunset

I can’t think of anyone else.

Not many people seem upset these days about the Xcel Energy Center being built.

Hey, Raindog66, so Pohlad is the “only one” to truly benefit from a new stadium? Before you said it was Pawlenty. Evidently, you’re too godamn stupid to even agree with yourself.

Pohlad = T-Paw

Dipstick.

Just curious: How much of MY MONEY will you be TAKING in 20 YEARS when the NEXT Twins Stadium/ Phalluswill NEEDS to be built?

Dude, it’s like $20 a year. Can’t you find something more significant to piss and moan about?

$20 a year?

While schools go under funded?

While the Library stays closed Sundays?

While there’s not enough $ to pay the cops?

If those problems are so pressing, why aren’t you doing something about them? If they want to tax me another $20 for schools or libraries or cops or tissues for the anti-stadium whiners to go with the $20 a year I’ll be paying for the stadium, then so be it.

Oh I see…if there are social problems we just need to pull up our boot straps and fix ‘em ourselves.

But when the 78th WEALTHIEST MAN IN THE USA “needs” a billion dollar stadium he “deserves” a hand-out?!?!?!?!

You’re blinded by balls, bro.

High and tight.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t State taxes pay for schools and cops?

There are no State taxes involved in the deal.
AND if you live in Henn. Co. your food, education and health care are not being taxed.

If people are bitter, they can go to St.Paul to buy their new fishing rod or bedroom set.

Oh I see…if there are social problems we just need to pull up our boot straps and fix ‘em ourselves.

No, you could ask your city-council rep or mayor or county commissioner or legislator or governor or congressional rep to address those social problems. Or you could continue to weep about the extra $20 in taxes we’ll be paying for the stadium–which never would have gone to cops or schools or your kleenex supply in the first place.

But when the 78th WEALTHIEST MAN IN THE USA “needs” a billion dollar stadium he “deserves” a hand-out?!?!?!?!

I couldn’t care less if the Twins get a stadium. I’m much less annoyed by the new stadium or my additional tax burden than I am by the hystrionics of the anti-stadium crowd. If those cops and schools and hankies are so important, why aren’t you doing something about them instead of posting repeatedly about the stupid stadium?

Well, say goodbye to democracy in America! And say hello to the People’s Republic of Minnesota, where the soicalist fairies and the rich farts with sports teams can live together in harmony!

RIP MINNESOTA:1858-2006

Thank’s sport zelots for ruining our state’s image nationwide!

Thanks for the clarifiation.

You’re not Pro-Stadium you’re just anti-Freedom of Speech when it applies to a subject you are sick of hearing about.

That’s cool.

But you are wrong when you say that these funds don’t impact the schools and police budgets. These funds were CUT while at the same time funds were given/diverted to Pohlad’s pocket.

Anyway I should know better than to argue with you name-calling Sid Hartman clones.

I’m not bitter. Just sad at how low we aim with regard to funding what really matters in this state.

And you can stop telling me to do something. I am very active in raising money for affordable housing and when given the chance I always support referendum’s that raise funding for schools.

If we all remain silent than the powers that be will continue to act w/o consequence. You prefer silence. I prefer action.

Fight the power!

Carl Pohlad was a hero to most, but he never meant much to me….

Yes, rest in peace, Minnesota. Rest in peace, free speech. Rest in peace, schools and cops and affordable housing. It’s too bad our society was sacrificed at the altar of publicly financed stadia, but apparently that’s how it went down.

What was that I just wrote about hystrionics?

Thanks sports fans for ruining Minnesota’s image nationwide?

What? Did Minnesota become a tropical paradise?

This can’t be about the ballpark. Afterall, many other cities are building new ballparks/arenas

Stick a fork in Western Civilization. This ballpark killed it. Dead.

Yeah Rat (Barreiro) the only thing more dead then democracy are the Twin’s chances of ever winning another World Series.

Or going .500.

At least they’ll have a BILLION DOLLAR BOONDOGGLE STADIUM to get rained out in.

Flippin’ sweet!

People can make pretty daring claims when they know that they’ll never be called on it.

You follow baseball closely, Raindog66?

You’re posting like someone with some inside knowledge.

Inside knowledge of what? Rooms with padded walls?

I think Raindog66 seems to know his/her baseball. Bold predictions coming from that corner. Would love to get the insight.

Sarcasm is so rarely funny.

or was that meant to be sardonic?

Let’s see…

To sum it up:

No Pitching.

Worse Hitting.

YOUR Minnesota Twins!

So that dooms them to a history defeat from here on out?

You’re holding back. Gimme some of that inside knowldge.

You know people are being sardonic when they make this face:

It’s Mr. Sardonicus!

I’m not bitter. Just sad at how low we aim with regard to funding what really matters in this state.

Again…$12.4 billion in state education funding, NOT counting local contributions. $7+ billion for health care programs, NOT counting federal funds. Billions upon billions in transportation. If you add up all state and federal expenditures in Minnesota it totals $50 billion. Tell me again where we’ve aimed low?????

Now what if they built the ballpark without a roof attachment on and therefore it snow on the first day of the season? I wonder how much money the team would lose that day because mother nature gave them over two feet of white fluff to shovel! LOL!

They’ll schedule a game for an off day, or a double-header. It happens all the time in Major League Baseball. They’ll give rainchecks on the tickets.

Baseball’s been around for more than a century, most of the time with open-air stadiums.

What if this ballpark becomes something Minnesotans are proud of. Like the Xcel Center?’

Oh the horror!

Game 3/ 4 April. Outside temp 23 degrees, wind chill 12 degrees.
How nice would it be to play or watch a ballgame tonight?
Got to have a Retractable dome!!

Why do you need a roof on the stadium….Minnesota is filled with far weather fans anyway, so you won’t see any decent amount of fans at the Twins games anyway until July…that is if they are winning.