Secrets of the City

• City Pages: Another bad omen for the Pi Press?
• MPD: A new way to stonewall
• Mike Hatch and his pals: Little cigars are cigarettes
• Times: Over the Hedge porcupines “sound as if they migrated from Minnesota”
• Strib: NWA reaches deal with ground workers
• Pi Press: Get ready Hennepin County to pay the poor Pohlad family

I think you should just go ahead and graduate already. What’s keeping you!

But, I suppose, if I understood how degrees work, I would have managed to get one after 10 years of college.

A degree doesn’t really do much for you unless you dad owns a weekly.

Simpleton, I’m glad some anon commentor finally had the cojones to come right out and make that fresh observation.

A degree doesn’t really do much for you unless you dad owns a weekly.

Even then it’s not the valuable, either. Is is just me or does anyone else wish they never spent so much on college? I’m pretty sure I’d be doing exactly the same stuff, only without the huge monthly payments.

I was trying to make a broad jab at the neoptism culture in general with a specific reference. I’m sure Matt is a competent, smart person and he seems to be doing very well by this site. He should not take that as a personal attack.

Anywhy, his dad totally owns a monthly!

the post above is THE worst in the history of this site. mnspeak is going downhill fast. where’s rex?

My Dad owns a dealship!

Hmm, are you talking about the Matt’s post or my comment. Because I’ll take the latter as a point of pride!

be careful or matt’s going to flip you off

paula, you are absolutely bloody awful. that was the worst comment i have ever heard in my life. i wish i could have back the 3 seconds it took me to read it.

taylor – at this point, I totally agree. I am hoping (fingers crossed, eyes closed) that someday somewhere it pays to have that incredibly expensive piece of paper (*ahem* degree). I mean…it didn’t even come with a frame!

There was some guy on the Minneapolis Issues Forum awhile back, during the discussion of the UofM’s general college closing I think, that threw out the blanket “a degree is an investment in one’s financial future”. Clearly that person has no idea how expensive and inconsequential a college degree was a few years ago or currently is. The CBA on personally financing a college degree doesn’t come out to “a good investment”.

Taylor, it depends on what field you’re talking about. I can think of plenty of careers where you absolutely have to have a degree or you’re just not going to work, no matter how good or qualified you are.

Dawg, listen, no, listen, dawg. You’re upsetting the dogpound!

Taylor, if you honestly think that a college degree isn’t a good investment, then maybe you need to go back to school and get another one. On average, 4-year college graduates have twice the lifetime income of high school graduates. And the value of a degree (including its cost) has increased in recent years, not decreased.

Look it up.

matt – right on. We’ve all heard the figures. The stats. And yeah, it’s all true. But, early on, to those who graduate and find themselves still scraping by with Kamchatka vodka and Milwaukee’s Beast because their student loan payments cut their knees out from under them like an angry mobster, its hard to look at those stats and feel the difference their degree has made – even though it is ultimately priceless.

Tamara Draut was recently in town for a Policy and a Pint even discussing the financial issues facing young college grads – which she highlights in her book Strapped.

Also, Richard Florida (Rise of the Creative Class and Flight of the Creative Class) has been doing some research work on the draw of urban centers and has been (according to a lecture of his I was able to catch recently on C-SPAN) finding some similarly interesting data concerning the financial problems facing todays college grads…

Look it up.

I don’t know how!

I agree that college is way too expensive. And an unfortunate effect of its cost is that graduates can’t follow the career paths they want to because they have so much dept. The dept loads especially affect the number of young people going into public service.

How about, if you don’t think a college degree is a good idea, don’t go to college? Then see what kinds of jobs you’re going to get.

I will be the first one to say that college really didn’t advance my education by a large margin, but it’s still a necessary step.

Hmmm are the “p” and “b” buttons close together?

Then I guess it’s not a typo.

The dept loads especially affect the number of young people going into public service.

I’ll serve as exhibit A, and give you kudos for articulating such a great point on a very relevant issue.

After a night of computer/compression nightmares, here’s a little video about the new library. See if you can spot your favorite MNspeakers!

Someone actually just proposed legislation to cap student loan payments at a percentage of income for the first five or more years after school. I can’t find the actual information, but it may have been Charles Schumer’s proposal. Does anyone else have details?

re: chuck’s library vid.

Is it just me or, with the right sense of humor, couldn’t Colin make a killer Daily Show correspondent?

How was/is the Sexpo?

crz – I’m going tonight/tomorrow. I’ll have (hopefully) plenty more info then.

Anyone else there yesterday or attending this weekend?

heh, Colin would be awesome on the Daily Show!

my cross-posted plea: there’s a LOT going on this weekend. if you’re out and about, bring your camera! video from your point-n-shoot is just fine, and you can email it to MN Stories. video camera, even better.

i’m counting on you, citizen mediamakers.

yeah it seems like a weirdly packed weekend. MPL opening/art-a-whirl/pillow fight/Sexpo…plus the extensive calendar list.

That Tamara Draut book is just a bunch of bullshit excuses made up for lazy ass kids and guised as research. I’m 25 and tired of all the whinebabies who bitch and moan about how hard life is for college grads. Shut up, get a job and be financially smart or piss off. They act like everyone before us just had it so good and now today everything is just going to hell. Self-centered and life-dumb is what most of them are.

My college education will cost me around $20,000 when all my loans are done. It has earned me more than $75,000 in salary in two plus years. I’ve never heard of this Schumer proposal, but I’ve heard of efforts here to allow students to lock in their freshman tuition rate for four years (w/inflationary adjustments) to guard against increases and allow them to better prepare financially for the rest of their life.

Kevin from Minneapolis, Ladies and Gentlemen. I look forward to his new show on KTLK.

As indie pointed out, there is more and more information coming out on the financial insecurities of college graduates who are entering the workforce. There’s so much anecdotal infomation, in fact, that the Village Voice runs weekly installments on Generation Debt and the Times recently ran a look at the continuing assistance parents must provide their children to stay financially afloat.

Even though lifetime incomes could traditionally be connected to education levels (which actually just indicate general social trends anyway, such as minority incomes and education levels are traditionally much lower), those trends are shifting.

Not only does getting a college degree entail high monthly loan payments, it also means the opportunity cost of building a solid financial future at the point an individual is supposed to be striking out on their own.

In Minneapolis/ St. Paul, for example, coming out of college once meant a diploma (I recently talked with a member of a school board that came out of college with college paid and money in his pocket!). It now means inflated housing prices, unavalibility of good careers, sky rocketing energy and healthcare costs — plus loan repayment for those who had to finance their own education. The burden, again with a CBA, just doesn’t work out.

Discussions on the cost of education in the United States shouldn’t be framed in terms of “Get a Degree, Get more money”, even though they unfortunately have. Instead, folks need to figure out how to make education affordable again, not just a pay-the-piper chore.

Pricing good students out of a college degree ultimately hurts the country domestically and in a globalized economy.

NOOOOOOOO!!!

Draut’s book isn’t flawless, and at her discussion the finance/econ guy from MPR (name escapes me) was there to dialogue/refute much of the book. In the end, there were great points on both sides.

And I’m not trying to reference bitchers and moaners. They’re everywhere. However, I do believe there is a legitimate base of college grads who can/should have legitimate gripes about the cost of education (especially public education) and their financial prospects thereafter. And I’m not just talking about just life after college, I’m talking about quality of life after college.

Bitchers and moaners should be written off. But people like Draut who are trying to make a case and spark a dialogue about what college grads may/may not be facing today (as opposed to preceding generations) should not be written off so flippantly. Whether hers or anyones arguments will or will not ultimately hold water should not undermine the fact that they are trying to engage the public in a dialogue about this issue.

The annual tuition at Oxford University (and any other UK university) is less than the U of M. It doesn’t need to be paid until you have graduated, and then not until you are making at least 15,000 pounds per year. Seems the government of the UK believes education is worth subsidizing, unlike the current trend in the US.

I knew I should have gone to Oxford. I already have a Devonshire accent.

If we lower our tuition the Terrorists WIN!

…and the crowd goes wild!

If it’s so damn hard, DON’T GO TO COLLEGE. My generation has this attitude that we’re supposed to have a life of financial glee and that is just unrealistic. It’s not enough for us that the government still pays half of the cost of our higher education, we need them to pay more. Why? So we can graduate and – poof! – a car, a house and a latte a day? The last 25 years have been economically fantastic. We’ve never seen real, persistent, widespread economic trouble and we don’t know how to handle it.

Forgo a night at the bar? Skip the morning run to Caribou? Cancel the cell phone in exchange for a cheaper landline? Gasp – not have an iPod? No. We’ll bitch instead that education costs too much. Then it’s someone else’s problem to deal with while we do more important things, like get a shiny car, and scoff at the kids who did actually work hard to get their education. Why can’t they see it’s easier to borrow and bitch?

Kev, are you talking about your roommate or what?

Kevin, you have a decent point — people need to be fiscally responsible. Education is important, even beyond having a pretty diploma to frame. But you know what? The middle class and the poverty stricken have been asked to bend over in recent decades when it comes to education costs, and it’s certainly not getting any easier.

There’s a ton of lip service paid to the importance of education, but some of the programs that made college financially feasible in since the Reagan years have been sliced. It amazes me that people can talk so much about an information economy and not subsidize education in the way that Europe does. For Christ’s sake, INDIA subsidizes education better than we do! India’s best school costs $500 a year to attend. Hell, they’re talking about setting aside half the spots for poor kids to attend in order to break the cycle of poverty. I never thought the Asian subcontinent would be kicking our asses, but they are. If we don’t do anything, we’re boned.

So Kevin, personal responsibility is important, but it’s never a replacement for smart policy. None of us think we’re in for a life of financial glee. I’ve paid my share of dues. And no, we haven’t seen “real, persistent, widespread economic trouble” but people drive the economy, the economy doesn’t drive the people. And if people are strapped and aren’t feeling capable of handling debt load (and I’ve seen plenty who are right on the edge, despite making meals of ramen, so don’t give me the living high on the hog excuse), they’re not going to continue moving the economy ahead. A government that invests in its people — such as through subsidizing higher education — will not go wrong.

…and the crowd goes…silent?

Then, Kevin, I wonder what you might suggest for grads with the desire to work in noble, yet underfunded or low-paying industries, like social work and non-profit work? I’m just asking an honest question. When they exit school and find a job and can barely make ends meet even without the bar, house, and latte, what might you suggest? Your rant seems like a more effective “Tips and Tricks On How to Save Some Cents” then it does a widespread policy initiative.

So where do I go to find the fun links every day? College?

Jobs are flocking to low-tax states for a reason.

Individuals looking to open a new business, expand operations or market new products weigh the comparative costs and benefits of different locations. They evaluate local universities, transportation networks, labor skills, market size and even the weather. They also assess the policy climate. Economic freedom — a favorable state tax, regulatory, and legal climate — attracts entrepreneurs and capital, thereby increasing jobs and wages.

In 2005, per capita personal income grew 31% faster in the 15 most economically free states than it did in the 15 states at the bottom of the list. And employment growth was a staggering 216% higher in the most free states. It hasn’t been a “jobless recovery” in states that have adopted pro-growth tax and regulatory policies.

Though typically tax cuts are opposed with the argument that slashing rates will force state revenue to fall, new data from the Nelson Rockefeller Institute shatters the myth that budget deficits are caused by supply-side policies. In 2005, the 15 states with the most economic freedom saw their general fund tax revenues grow at a rate more than 6% higher than the 15 least free states, despite their lower effective tax rate. Instead of blowing a hole in state budgets, lower tax rates rewarded productivity and risk-taking and allowed the economy to grow. As the economy expanded it also generated more revenue for the state Treasury as capital and people flowed in. Census data shows an astounding 245% difference in net state-to-state migration rates in 2005 between the freest states (net inflow) and least-free states (net outflow). “Live Free or Move” is fast becoming the national motto.

hey Jason, now that you don’t have to follow around the twins anymore, are we going to be seeing more of you on the internet.com?

Then, Kevin, I wonder what you might suggest for grads with the desire to work in noble, yet underfunded or low-paying industries

People need to do a cost-benefit analysis of the type of career they believe they want to pursue and the costs (both immediate in tuition and ongoing from lower wages) associated with that decision. My son graduated magna cum laude fro Macalester with a degree in music. It cost me over 100 grand for his education. He’s now touring Europe with his rock band. Was his education a good investment? I doubt it since his band’s been in existence since high school.

I’m majoring in english and taking some philosophy classes. Probably finish college in about 5 or so years. There’s no way in hell I’d go into chemistry, business or math. I’m not selling out to some big corporation that’s devastating the earth and screwing over 3rd world countries. This summer I’m going to bum around Europe and California. Maybe take in a festival or two and see Dave Matthews at Alpine Valley. Independent and free-thinking is the way for me. Noone’s gonna boss me around.

Oh yea, did I tell you that my Dad works at 3M and I grew up in Stillwater, got a car for my 16th birthday, my parents pay for my cell phone and car insurance, they gave me this great Dell computer and I shop at Ragstock with my friends who take me there in his cool Chevy Tahoe that he got from his folks.

I’m so progressive and free thinking. Make Peace not War. Save Mother Earth. Question Authority. Earth First! Save the Trees! Wellstone!

And as for the “slashing taxes” theory of economic and social development, I’d like to see data on how those policies have affected poverty rates in those regions before I buy any of the rhetoric they’re spewing.

Hey, what’s the name of the rock band?

Triangle

Oh my god, you have just totally made fun of, like three or four people who are exactly like that. I fear whatever deadly quill might next emerge from your quiver, because you ability to puncture pretension is terrifying.

Zounds!

Triangle. I’ll be damned.

Hey, Pauly should hook up with Paul! (Actually, that’s a pretty good generalization, there are really a lot of people like that.)

I hope to be on one the internets more, Taylor. I think I’ve been reacting to the ruthless mockery of my wife, for being obsessed with MNSpeak. So I’ve been trying to go to the gym and socialize with people in person.

I’ve found that to be lacking, so I’m back.

Jason: why not take your wife dancing next Saturday night? We won’t tell her you heard about it on MNspeak!

this sight sucks whers rex?

Triangle, dang i forgot about that band. i sure liked them.

AP reports that the Nap store in the MOA is closing.

Article says owner has signed a lease in the “trendy” uptown neighborhood.

Uptown.. what a fucking snoozefest anyway.

kwatt, I totally agree with you. I get embarrassed for my generation because so many of them are whiners who expect everything to be given to them, preferably while their parents are holding their hand.

dtester, you’d think for all that money he’d be calling the band at least dodecahedron.

Anyone have a thought on how to spell a word that sounds like this:

stay-dee-eye

Staydeeeye? Stadei? Steidei? Stadi? Stadii?

MinneNapolis – nooooo!

That blows my vlog concept of living at the MOA. I wanted to see if I could work there, sleep there, live there completely for a week.

Ah… MinneNapolis.. I almost forgot about the good times we had.

Yea! Where are the fun links? I don’t want to remember college!

Yep, every generation has their woes…ours is the seemingly pointless pursuit of colege eduation. Doesn’t it piss you off when the dumb ass who majored in Marketing in college works at Best Buy now and makes more money than you because you majored in English had actually had a thought in your head?

Oh yea, me, neither!

I like thriftyhipster and/or localhipster.coms …. Like MN Speak, lots of events, and a local perspective that is bar oriented more bar oriented…