Secrets of the City

I was hoping no one would notice this. Wow, that picture is creepy.

Man, if they’re going to start calling us “young culturati, or ‘hipsters’,” then I’m going to have to split. Forget about the whole rex vs. post-rex debate; this is our dignity they’re talking about.

Btw, Matt, is the median age really betweem 20 and 30? While there are certainly plenty of MNSpeakers within that range, it sure seems like the median age is just a bit higher. Of course, maybe we’re all within the lying range already.

Deb Rybak is too old to understand that ‘hipster’ is a slur. It’s like when my grandmother referred to ‘colored’ people. Not her fault.

Sorgatz “had a knack for fun, interesting, diverse discussions,” said site regular Alexis McKinnis. When he left, she said, “a lot of people threw up their hands and walked away.” They have been replaced by people McKinnis described as “argumentative and boring.”

Oh, I must have missed the mass walk-out. But, then, perhaps I am among the argumentative and boring.

I’m really not sure what the average age range is. People I know at the U of M tell me that a lot of students read MnSpeak, but I don’t see that many commenting. Probably more like 25-35. I probably said 20-30 because I’m 22 and wanted to fit in.

Actually, Rybak wrote that we refer to ourselves as hipsters “mockingly,” which demonstrates a perfect understanding of the tone here. Like how I might refer to myself as an “aging whore,” but really I’m just joking. Because I give it away.

Oh now I just feel dirty after reading that. Also, does that quote mean Alexis is not coming back after all?

“Young culturati?” ALAMN Bob was born during Ike’s administration. I am however, argumentative and boring, so I got that going for me.

It’s entirely true that I am old, but what you youngsters don’t understand is that “hipster” was considered stupid when I was your age as well. That’s why the word “mockingly” was in that sentence. Now, if you’ll excuse me, I need my midmorning nap.

Also, BartelCartel^TM exposed!

Funny thing: if you search the strib site for “bartel”, it asks if you really meant “cartel”. This isn’t going away, is it?

Probably not. You may as well warm up your media empire price-fixing engines now. Or at least make a cool logo.

Sarah leads all posters in making coffee come out of my aged nose.

It’s a good thing my cup ran out half an hour ago. I’m overdue for a refill.

Gross.

All Matt’s smarts came from Kris? Would you agree, Tom? And please, try not to rely solely on caustic wit in your response.

All that’s good came from Kris. All that’s bad, from his grandfather. I tried to abandon him on a hillside at birth, but then someone told me where that could lead.

Forget about it. Caustic wit is much more practical.

As is Latin.

Or Pig Latin, which you usedto be able to get a degree in at the U of M. They have totally gutted the Humanities department.

His uncle can’t understand why the kid even wants to follow in the family’s footsteps. “It’s crazy talk,” he joked. Still, he added. “It’s better than his other idea of going into politics.”

“I might end up running for office,” he mused, having caught the political bug interning for Sen. Mark Dayton as well as working for political adman Bill Hillsman.

I’m with your uncle on that one, dude.

-Aaron

As long as we’re correcting comments, Deborah didn’t quote Matt as saying anything about a “median age really between 20 and 30.” She said “20- to 30-year-olds,” which seems about right — there are only a handful of 40-year-olds and couple teens.

Lux says I “had a knack” for something, heh.

Whoa now. For all I know, you’re not my real dad and that’s still entirely possible. *shutter*

*shudder*

my fail english? That’s unpossible!

Hey, Tom, at least you won’t be held accountable for Matt’s mistakes now… only any apparent lack of wit.

This is my favorite part:

Bartel discovered his entrepreneurial bent early on. “He’s been making money writing computer programs since he was a kid,” his father said. “Other than college tuition, oh, and the actual computer we bought him for those computer programs, oh, and the occasional fantasy role-playing game on Christmas and his birthday, oh, and wait, uh–heh, heh–yeah, we did send him to math camp for a couple summers…but other than that, well, he’s never taken a penny from us.”

And I bet he doesn’t need daddy’s help with the ladies either.

This isn’t Post Modern.

It’s pretty meta, though.

lol.

Stewie Griffin just called, wanted to know if all the women here have exposed culturati?

Bow-chikka-bow-wow!

Out of curiosity, has anyone ever put together a MNSpeak user survey? Or would empirical data ruin all the fun of stereotyping ourselves as non-hipsters, grups and aging whores?

I don’t know, rex. As long as we’re getting technical, I usually interpret “20- to 30-year-olds” as being between 20 and 30 years old. But, hey, we’ve already established that I’m no genious.

I’m going to class now.

I think the main thing that bothered me about that article is that I didn’t realise that this site had a very large readership, and it makes me a bit more self-conscious about posting. But the more I think about it, the more I realise that no one in the cities knows who I am anyway, so it doesn’t matter. Hooray!

The Interweb is no place for timidity. Post boldy!

I’m an old-timer… IE above the median.

However, median is the point where there are equal numbers above and below. So, I would put the median age of the viewership of just about any site in the 20 to 30 year old range…

post boldly!

Like Marsh! He doesn’t care who knows he’s an idiot.

Funny how Alexis claims a mass exodus after Rex’s departure, though she didn’t stop posting until the very recent meth flap. Seems like sour grapes to me. . . .

To an extent, she’s right. Some people did stop coming after Rex’s departure. I’m not sure I’d term it a mass exodus — Rex and Matt would know better than I.

But I think the phenomenon she mentioned is definitely an issue, but not for that reason — it’s fairly typical growing pains for any community. As traffic and readership grows, you’ll always get the argumentative and annoying. It’s just the way things work, especially when you have discussions that range from politics to pizza, Rollergirls and strippers.

Or sour meth-mouth.

I believe that’s more accurate, tmay.

I mean, seriously, meth heads have awful breath. Meth-breath?

Here’s a hint, though: If you don’t like arguments you probably shouldn’t be posting anywhere on the internet. It’s the greatest argument-enabler ever to exist.

I mean, give a bunch of people with different opinions a forum to interact in and you’re bound to get arguments-a-plenty! i.e. politics, &etc.

Isn’t it really a quality vs. quantity thing, though?

I would like a discussion about what is and isn’t post modern.

I would like a discussion about what is and isn’t post meta.

C’mon, nobody reads this shit, jclareb. Honestly. Debbie Ry seemed a little “breezy” with her research on that culturati fact. Anyway, I’m certain nobody attractive reads this shit. And yes, I’m counting the “witty” Gary Louris chick. I mean, Alexis was hottish, but she was a nerd version of a fag hag, and now she’s peaced out. But you are right about the idiot thing; I’ve been taking it even less seriously since we traded Rex for Mattcauley Culkin.

I’m not cool enough to be a hipster, and since I am new, apparently I am argumentative and boring.

Looks like I picked a bad week to give up self loathing.

I think this discussion may have gone post meta.

rex left?

I’d like to introduce a new term to the MNSpeak Lexicon….

Bartel-o-gram–Can’t tell you exactly what it is, but suffice to say you really don’t want to receive one.

Only physically.

In the spirit of transparency, Deborah emailed me some questions. Here are some of my responses:

All online communities have a “growing pains moment” in which they reach a mass audience and people start to interact in ways you wish were more civilized. But there are also ways to tweak the structure of the community to make the system accommodate that growth.

[...]

I always say that MNspeak essentially owns itself. It’s an open co-operative, and therefore has the power of self-correction. If there’s something you don’t like, it’s completely within your power to voice it, solicit others to help change it, and then propose institutional changes to the group. If everyone has the same potential power, no one has the ability to complain. It’s essentially open-source community building.

Yes, there’s a hint of utopianism in there — I’m not that naive.

As far as traffic patterns, they haven’t changed much: incremental growth over the past year. There was a big spurt around the time of the transfer, but the growth has slowed down since then. I very much agree that community size is a concern here, but as I suggest above, I think there are ways to manage that.

Anyone want to be assigned a “spam deleter” job?

Oh, and I’d guess the average age of a frequent contributor to be about 30, and the average age of a frequent visitor to be a bit lower. That’s guessing, but it’s based upon knowing many of you.

Anyone want to be assigned a “spam deleter” job?

How much is the pay and what is the timeframe expectations between spam hitting the site and having it deleted?

-Aaron

I don’t know… at least Marsh posts less than before…

I hear Marsh has been taking phenylbutylpiperadines to control the Tourettes, but I miss him.

Yeah, the turettes might lend a hand to the argumentative nature of the site, but it’s certainly not boring.

Cristina, that actually hurts. I’m a big fan of Chasing Windmills.

Oh, come on, Mr. Marsh. It’s a major kudos to your self-deprecating sense of humour — one which I share only too well.

Actually, you’d be a great guest star for the second season, Marsh. Think about it.

And I also share a Marsh-depreciating sense of humor.

Actually, I think people pick on Marsh just to see him come out punching.

You’re right, I do sort of have that “latina” look.

Definitely. You have to credit that. Hell, I would just break down into insectile form and crawl under the damp bottom of a neglected rock. That’s why I find it easier to engage in self-flagellation.

I’m confused, Marsh. What does that have to do with it?

Well, hey, who wouldn’t. Self-flagellation!

Hey, there’s a novel idea for a thread — self-flagellation. We can begin our own flagellation, and then let all the MNSpeakers take over.

Don’t be confused. Just give me a chance to glower into your camera. I’m really good at playing gay mafiosos too.

You just keep thinking about it. We’ll go with whatever you’ve got. But if you’re going to do the gay mafioso thang, we’ll have to shoot at Babablú. I think it can be arranged.

I thought that was you playing Tony Danza in Illtown!

everyone fears eventually being called that which they perceive as being not authentic. “Hipster,” I think, would therefore be “one who is playing the part of being ‘hip’ but actually is not.” On the other hand, it is possible that being a “member” of an burgeoning online community lands you the “hipster” label from those who are not participating.

I suppose next they’ll assume we wear little black glasses (scroll down a little…Matt, you think your mug is bad…look at what I found with a little Google image search! I wonder if they’ll use that for my Smoking Gun mug shot).

Love the article Matt. Glad to see you are doing big things! My little cousin Kyle pitched in the Robbinsdale opener last Saturday, boy do I miss those days. Talk to you later

wtf?

Oh yeah, Mike says whats up too Matt…. we are sitting in his moms house right now, just got done reading the article in the Star Trib

Cristina–

I am putty in your hands. I’ll do whatever, up to and including full-frontal. I’m not afraid to go into Lady Chatterly territory, MacGregor style. Email me: smarsh@mspmag.com

MSP is setting the curve by embedding culture vulture journalists….did anyone else notice that Steve Marsh was riding in the Prairie Home Companion Parade?

Fascinating stuff, birdtown. Universal appeal to Mattspeak readers.

So in addition to Marsh dubbing us all unattractive, now I apparently have to get little black glasses to comment here? Maybe that can go with my “argumentative and boring” comments.

Is it the cloudy Monday problem? So negative!

Little black glasses, you say? By the way, you might have noticed that my girlfriend was wearing a white belt on Friday. I didn’t have the heart to tell her that on MnSpeak “white belt-wearing” is an in-joke term for “scenester.”

Sorry you have to work so hard at it, nerdgrrl. Some of us have it pretty easy — being naturally endowed with all the necessary (clears throat) assets for MNSpeak commentary. Let’s see, what were those now? I’ve got: argumentative, boring, self-deprecating, unattractive, little-black-glasses-wearing, hipster… What am I missing? I think I’ll add masochistic to the list, since we’re all still hanging around in here despite our criticisms.

Just telling Matt some people say whats up, not really into this whole BLOG thing….. read his article in the Trib today and figured this would be an easy way for him to know some people read it.

msparber – She ought to continue rocking the white belt. Never, ever surrender.

Hey Dan Chayer, you can send Matt a personal message through the miracle of email! Matt@mnspeak.com. Sorry if I just blew your MIND!

Really? we have e-mail? No way

Hi Dan and Mike. Never mind sarah, matt doesn’t read his email. I send him stuff all the time like “Send me some of that money,” and so forth and he just doesn’t read them.

Actually you did blow my mind Sarah….. it blows my mind that people actually sit on here all day and write shit to eachother… this might be worse than text messaging…..

argumentative, boring, self-deprecating, unattractive, little-black-glasses-wearing, hipster

And I thought I wouldn’t find the place where I belonged.

*tear*

I’ve got: argumentative, boring, self-deprecating, unattractive, little-black-glasses-wearing, hipster…

oh god, I *do* fit in here.

Hey coach! Love what he is doing, good for him…. I am sure I will run into Matt on here sooner or later.

I got a call the other day from a student who was doing a story on the rise of tuition prices. His first question was, “Do you consider yourself a grup?”

Ouch.

I’ve got: argumentative, boring, self-deprecating, unattractive, little-black-glasses-wearing, hipster…

Come on, we’ve just described the entirety of Uptown and Northeast Minneapolis.

Marsh is just upset that his MNSpeak credentials include looking like Grizzly Adams.

And Cristina — you forgot liberal and cliche.

(And he followed it up by asking if MNspeak readers are grups.)

Oh, yeah, thanks, Rich.

How did Rich get quoted? That’s fantastic.

Nice article, Matt. You could have mentioned me. At least Alexis gave me a shout out: “Boring” in the house!

I’ve been hoping that Marsh would post more.

When a reporter starts the conversation, “I read your blog,” it tends to worry me. Apparently she thought I’d be quotable.

I did tell her to get in touch with you, Jason. Apparently she thought that might be a little too incestuous.

So you’re saying Jason is sleeping with Deborah?

Exactly.

I will be disappointed if the first-ever MNspeak get-together doesn’t involve an outbreak of violence among all the argumentative, boring, self-deprecating, unattractive, little-black-glasses-wearing, hipsters.

Rex, will you please fly back so we can have a drunken argument about trademark law, and then duel with broken Premo bottles?

So.. is it a MNSpeak “thang” to classify all get-togethers as first-ever?

I’m serious, we need more Marsh.

I’m also surprised that no one picked up on the fact that Matt got a “five figure” from his parents to pay Rex for the site.

Taylor-

You forget it’s a five figure loan! He’ll have it paid off in no time. MNspeak rakes in $1,200 a month don’t ya know. Subtract hosting costs and such… and let’s say it’s a no-interest loan (thanks Dad)… and with making no money himself… (let’s assume) he’ll have the loan paid off within a decade or two!

Gift, shmift.

-Aaron

cristina, all previous events have been mere preludes to the first-ever MNspeak get-together, which will feature a brawl w/ broken bottles of Premo.

Plus, I didn’t go to any of them, so they might not have happened.

I picked up on it and have requested my adoption papers to see if Bartel might not, in fact, be my father.

I’ve got: argumentative, boring, self-deprecating, unattractive, little-black-glasses-wearing, hipster…

Come on, we’ve just described the entirety of Uptown and Northeast Minneapolis

And the condos north of Powderhorn Park.

If Matty Bart was a below-average Kennedy, which below-average Kennedy would he be?

A.)Michael L. Kennedy
B.)David A. Kennedy
C.)Patrick J. Kennedy
D.)William Kennedy Smith

50 words or less. We’ll see what the demo on this bitch really is.

I understand now, mike… and despite the myriad of photos there are many who claim they may never have actually happened…

And, damn, if those were only preludes, I fear the brawl with every ounce of my being… and that’s a whole lot of being these days.

There was an MNspeak get-together so-to-speak at the 331 Club on Thanksgiving Eve 2005. About 3 of us showed up. (Okay, it ended up being about 5 or 6 and Drinking Liberally was going on at the same time… but I was the only one there that wasn’t previously friend of Rex’s IIRC.)

The get-together included a promise of Rex buying you a beer if you showed up and he said there might be t-shirts. He had car problems and forgot the T-shirts but bought beer for me the whole time I was there.

Also, I’m sure there have been get-togethers before this — as MNspeak was primarily just Rex and a bunch of his friends anyway.

Point: It’s not the first-ever MNspeak get together!

Oh btw speaking of MNspeak history…

Matt: it’s “MNspeak,” not “MnSpeak” – unless you’re changing it.

-Aaron

I remember that. I thought Rex was kidding, so I didn’t go, but he really did buy beers.

I also liked the part of the article where Matt says he “never knew there was so much to talk about in the Twin Cities. It just never occurred to me that they were that interesting.”

Because, you know, Twin Cities: All Day, All Night

If there’s a brawl I’m running away and I’ll get away cause I’ll be the only one who is sober.

i see, the working 1-3am thing explains why i see the “today’s local links” come down on my bloglines feed.

Patrick J. Kennedy, esteemed Representative from Rhode Island

Taylordude, I take it you’ve never been to Northfield? There’s a bar there called the Reub where you can sit and eat chicken wings and listen to the Carleton kids talk about how they know people that have gone to treatment and how much Minneapolis sucks. It’s sweet.

Who knew there were so many live Kennedys? Marsh really makes you do your homework- he’s like Jello that way.

Marsh. I live upstairs from the Rueb. I’ll be there all night if anyone wants to come down.

huh. Rex never bought me a beer. I think it’s because I was being arguementitive.

huh. Rex never bought me a beer. I think it’s because I was being arguementitive.

I think it was your stutter.

If Matty Bart was a below-average Kennedy, which below-average Kennedy would he be?

»» Submitted by stevemarsh at 4:30 PM on May 8

Alright, you post that, I’ll call it out. There’s a very large part of me that is screaming “pick on someone your own size” when I see Marsh going after Matt.

But then I wonder if there’s something threatening — professionally speaking — in the room here? Let’s call that out here: MSP Magazine (Marsh) vs. MNSpeak (Matt Bartel) (by way, obviously, of the Rake – Tom Bartel). (DISCLOSURE: I do business with all three of them, albeit very little in whole.) There’s some truthiness to that claim, if you ask me. If so, I would find that to be a particularly useful and insightful discussion.

If that’s not the case — and Marsh is comparing the younger Bartel to a Kennedy as sport — then this seems to simply be a case of personal bitterness, from which those of us not “in the know” in local publishing circles are on the sidelines wondering who’s the Rodney King and who’s the LAPD.

If there are real professional or personal beefs out there, then those fanning the flames owe it to the MNSpeak community to disclose them. You have a context we do not. Also, without that background, these posts tend to be thread killers and push people away from posting or participating at all in MNSpeak. If it’s simply personal, I would like to see that out of a MNSpeak thread. And that really goes for all threads and all participants. We’re all grown adults who should be able to take these “outside” so to speak.

But I would pay admission to watch a Jello match.

no, it’s cos you’re a repetitive boor, dudebro.

no, it’s cos you’re a repetitive boor, dudebro.

I love buying people beer!

What a coincidence! I love when people buy me beer.

Sounds like aeklund is leaning more towards Bobby Junior.

I’ve been visiting this site for about a month or two and was under the impression that most of you are 30-something (I’m 39 (man, I’m fookin’ old)). Anyway, I say that not because of the “culturati-ness” of the people that post here, but because the discussions and humor seem to be pretty sophisticated most of the time. So, be brave and fess up. How old are ya?

Our network connection has been down all day. Driving me crazy! And I was out of town this weekend, and kind of missed MNSpeak. This, makes me a freak.

To respond to a pretend question about 40 comments ago: No, I’m not sleeping with Deborah.

BrianP, I’m 31, by the way.

Since I seem to have disclosureness (I’m first, Colbert!) running through me tonight: I’m 37.

33.

But I’ve got over a 100 real MySpace friends, so think that knocks off at least 8 years.

This thread is just a big fucking circle jerk that I didn’t even want posted in the first place. I’m killing it.

Really? 100? On MySpace?

I have six. And I’m 37. So, clearly, you have little black glasses. And I’m a loser. Because I (had) little black glasses and six MySpace friends. All at once.

Matt: I’m very innocent and I’m not sure what the “jerk” you speak of refers to. Circle? I’m confused.

Wow- he wasn’t kidding! I guess it’s for the best. If you saw this thread after reading the Strib article- you may decide to never come here again.

I don’t know if it was turning into a circle jerk as much as it was becoming a sort of intelligent critique of the present state of this site. Doesn’t necessarily make it look pretty for the press, though.

This is the first time I have posted in a while. I missed talking to DeRusha.

I missed you too, Andrea! I believe the dictionary needs a word to describe the “friends” you only know from the internet. Because I’ve had a hard time talking about the MNSpeak commenters to my wife/family/neighbors. All think I’m a freak.

I’ve missed you too, Jason. I started to think that you gave up on the internet.com because you were gone for almost a whole day.

Now this has officially become a circle jerk. If I understand the meaning of that term correctly. And to think I was worried you all would forget about me!

I love participating in closed threads. It’s like an invisible kingdom, and we are its kings.

We can keep it alive… if only in the list of today’s comments.

So what do you want to talk about. Um. I ate at Ike’s tonight. It was good. They make good Cosmos.

This thread is just a big fucking circle jerk that I didn’t even want posted in the first place. I’m killing it.

Matt-

Deleting shit off this site is something I’m absolutely not a fan of – regardless of the content. I can’t speak for others, but when there’s an overlord in the community that starts killing off things you not only lose your “democracy” feel of your website but you start losing a lot of respect. Secondly, the morons that troll will be “versus” the overlord instead of “versus” the community. You don’t want that, and we don’t want that. Come down from your delete-button-accessing-chair and be one of us.

-Aaron

Well, he didn’t really “delete” it — he just took it off the homepage.

And as someone who once put an extraordinary amount time into keeping this site up-to-date, I’ll note that it can be immensely frustrating to have a couple dorks show up for no other reason that to trash talk you. It’s like you feel like screaming, “Do you have anything else to contribute to this community? Anything?!” So really folks, a lot of that shit is just unnecessary. Or worse, unfunny.

Frustrating, I agree 100%. …but put it into Yesterday’s Talk then. My advice is for the overlord to not announce he’s doing it nor to announce it with vulgarity (i.e. “big fucking circle jerk”). I hate to call you out on this rex, but you’re probably much more familiar than I am when it comes to overlords and their roles in online communities. The path Matt was taking there wasn’t pretty. Again, I agree the shit is frustrating but when there’s an overlord visibly striking down on the community, regardless of how badly they’re misbehaving…

As the owner and operator of a

As the owner and operator of a

Third times a charm…

As the owner and operator of a broadcasting message board that swings wildly between constructive debate and being one of the internet’s most disturbing bathroom walls, I learned early on that if you start banning the thoughts of people you don’t like, soon you will find that you are left talking to the one person who always agrees with you…yourself.

I love the diversity of thoughts and ideas presented here. And I like the fact that sometimes everyone doesn’t agree. If you want a place free of differing opinions, say the word. I am sure a lot of us can find better ways to use our time.

Well, it could have been worse. Mayy could have been compared to a Bush rather than a Kennedy.

Matt, rather. Mayy is that creepy girl who cuts up people.

Heh. So it goes.

BTW, msparber (and others):

http://s4xton.com/1259/minneapolis-central-library/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/s4xton/sets/72057594129663870/

And mine.

Don’t all the good threads turn into a circle jerk at the end anyway?

I’m not exactly saying I condone any moderating actions (I have mixed feelings, I suppose); I merely empathsize. The people who are hurting this community are… the one-noters who can’t stop saying Bartel-this or Bartel-that. Seriously, I want those people to contribute…. something…. anything.

Wow, see, thanks for being an actual photographer.

And lookie there, Sarah finally bought new shoes!

Ok, then, my impression was correct I suppose. That is, mostly thirty-somethings, at least amongst the regular contributors. When I read the Strib article, I thought it was odd that Bartel said the MNSpeak community was composed of 20- to 30-year-olds. But I think he’s right in pointing out that MNSpeak’s audience is younger than most other media outlets. Oh, and derusha, you’re doing pretty well for yourself, for a young punk, of course.

Oh, come on, Rex. Why don’t you chillax on defending the Bartels at every turn? I mean, this situation isn’t unprecedented–the new landlords tweaking the rules, but The Murdochs are way less obtrusive on their new Myspace toy, for instance (at least so far). But you have to agree that striking down threads is annoying. And you know it’s been happening a lot more, in loco bartelis style. And you know my Bartel shit is funny too, and timely, within a thread responding to a puff piece about them in the Strib. We get it: you can’t playerhate after you sold your baby to them, but stop fronting so hard.

I still check it regularly though. So I guess the kid isn’t fucking it up too badly.

I’d take your comments all a lot more seriously if the “community” actually acted like one and started expousing some sense of community standards rather than “anything goes because this is the internet.” What happens really is the serious people who might like to have an actual discussion come here, see Marsh and Minimarsh (Taylor) fomenting whatever the fuck they please, and go somewhere else.

The Strib story today was a chance to expand this community, and perhaps get some new blood in here who might add something. Instead, some new people came, including some of Matt’s childhood friends, and were immediately slagged because they just weren’t cool enough and didn’t know the MNspeak ethos, which basically amounts to “we’re so much cooler than you and if you’d just been around for the beginning, when Rex was here, you’d know that. All the rest of you can just fuck off.”

Others came and saw just what of childish bunch of dipshits hang out here and said I’ve got better things to do.

As for Marsh, who knows why he’s got such a hard on for me? Actually I do know. He wrote one piece for the Rake four years ago, evidently didn’t like that we edited it, and when he was such an asshole to our editor, he was invited to not write for us any more. I’ve never met the man, but I do know he’d never have the guts to say what he says about me or Matt to our face.

If the “community” thinks, as Nater seems to, that what Marsh does represents “differing opinions,” then this community isn’t a message board, it is indeed a bathroom wall where people are allowed to not only write “rolls his shit in little balls” level graffiti, but also smear the walls with feces.

It stinks in here. No person interested in civil discourse or genuinely witty banter would long tolerate such an odor. The alternatives are to leave or clean it up. You decide. If the community isn’t willing to swing the virtual mop every now and then, then, unfortunately it’s left to Matt. He started out here with high hopes, and gets trashed for his trouble. If you want a community, take some responsibility for taking out the trash yourself.

And I don’t know who’s the LAPD or Rodney King on here, aeklund. What a terrible analogy. Jesus.

Pshit, I ain’t frontin. The check cleared.

But seriously, all I’m saying is that if I woke up every morning to this noise, I’d want to start deleting to. And — right or wrong — so would every single one of you.

It’s like the game has become “Let’s see how much crap we can write, and then condemn him for eventually deleting it.” Fun game! But when can we stop?

(And now I’m sounding like the one-noter, so I’m quittin this jibberish too.)

Just chiming in here to say I, for one, miss Rex’s exacting attention to detail on this site.

Also, there was a time when pretty much any local issue that really interested me was being discussed here by the time I got around to checking the site. That’s not the case anymore.

Personally, my MNSpeak reading habits have dropped off some, although I still check in here. It’s just not multiple times a day like I used to — maybe more like 3 or 4 times a week. (Several close friends have pretty much given up on the site and, I think, depend on me to point them toward interesting discussions, or at least the ones with the really juicy personal attacks.)

Also, free Yori Kahl!

Also, five figures(!!) (That said, I think Rex might have told me that a while ago and I forgot about it.)

Also, Rex, have you tried Red Mill Burgers yet?

Within reason, I’m not too concerned with who owns the site, or if they edit here and there. I just like the site and think it will be successful and profitable over the long term. Advertisers should take advantage of sites like MNSpeak because I think they would get alot of bang for the buck. That’s because I’m sure many of the people that visit sites like this are the tastemakers or whatever in their peer groups or social circles.

Dude, you don’t remember anything I tell you. No Red Mill Burgers for this nearly-decade-long vegetarian.

Hey, how come you didn’t come out for the EMP Pop Conference thingy? Dylan was here, Matos was here, etc… but no Rossy, sigh.

Rex, Red Mill has veggie burgers! And french fries! Are you too cool to eat fucking french fries? Are you a communist now? Plus, Red Mill is a great example of Seattle customer service at its finest — they make you feel like shit for daring to patronize their business. Just wait till this summer when you’ll swear all your favorite stores/restaurants are turning up the thermostat merely to make your consumer experience even more unpleasant.

As for EMP’s conference, I went to the first one and it was total fucking nerd central. Too nerdy for me, even! (That said, someday I’ll hopefully get around to submitting a paper — I do have a pretty great idea that’s actually interesting and funny and not at all wonky and bookish, so I probably have no chance of making it.)

Oh, and for those keeping track of the ages of MNSpeakers, I’m 28 years old. Or at least my jokes are.

Yes, Microsoft’s first communist.

EMP was pretty awesome. There was a guy who did a fan-boy love fest on ELO that was just killah. Dylan beat me in the Q&A to pointing out the band you manage, ELNo.

Ok, who’s going to be first to say, “Bartel, block that metaphor.”?

Bartel, block that metaphor.

NO MORE POO METAPHORS.

Hey, did you guys see that picture of Jay-Z hanging out with Bill Gates at some New Media conference? I saw it on a hip-hop blog and again in the Times Sunday edition. It’s so crazy I can hardly get my head around it.

Jesus. Do I get an award for reading the whole thread?

A few years ago I interviewed Matt Haughey, founder and babysitter of the ultimate pain-in-the-ass online community: MetaFilter. He was really down in the dumps about the site. Waves of newbies and bitter oldies, inside jokes, legal troubles, you name it. He was ready to pull the plug.

The next year, he was beaming. He’d moved to Oregon. And he realized what he loved about MetaFilter was waking up to all the cool, interesting links every day. Learning something new. Through all the asshattery, people kept coming back to find and post about interesting crap and talk about it.

I think we need more of that here. Less reliance on Matt, more reliance on each other.

Also: Attack ideas, not people. But don’t bogart the thread, dude.

170-something posts.

I think it’s safe enough for me to bury this here.

Did any of you here my crazy hippy encounter?

http://www.cities97.com/cc-common/podcast.html” target=”_blank”>

Look for the Stephen Stills interview.

That is…hear my crazy…

And here’s my next go at the link

http://www.cities97.com/cc-common/podcast.html

Hilarious. Tom, are you wasted? Hopefully, just hungover at this point.

Actually, I was the one who called Hans an “asshole,” over a story of mine that he mangled and subsequently apologized for mangling, after I, regrettably, called him an asshole. (It was a piece on Nick Swardson in the second issue, and I was probably too hasty with the “asshole” call.) In fact, I had a standing invite to write for you guys for awhile, but since you don’t pay for shit, I never took you up on it.

And yes, continuing in the spirit of full disclosure, I’m cooler than Matt’s childhood friends.

Okay, Taylor, let’s get out of this shithole.

We pay good writers well.

Marsh: What a bully! When you’re not being cooed over and told how damn funny you are, you get all pissy that someone would have the sense to tell you to knock off your shit. It’s gone to far. Yeah, please get out off this site and take your self-deprecating b.s. elsewhere. I’m not putting my name b/c I don’t want a Marsh-load of crap coming at me.

Pshaw. Name your top rate.

Whatever, Matt.

Isn’t this highly unprofessional — all this dredging up who you called an asshole and stating how cool you are? I mean, you’re an associate editor at a larger local mag, so aren’t you concerned, Marsh, about your image and reputation and what you write on this site also reflects on your magazine? I mean, you’re speaking (rather, writing) as your own guy, apart from your workplace, but when you’re in the public eye, seems like a mature and smart thing would be to temper your rantings so people won’t put you on the shitlist or think twice about paying for your words.

Drunk? Hungover? Marsh, you are too funny. I bet Bartel hasn’t had to endure such insults since somebody called him Mister Poopy Pants on the kindergarten playground.

Sock Puppet accounts++

I honestly suspect that Questioning Sanity of Some Commentors is also Steve Marsh, and we’re watching his tortured psyche fragment into squabbling factions.

It’s pretty fun.

Marsh’s humor is on the same level of a poopy-panted child from kindergarten — he never graduated from that stage. I sometimes got a kick out of it, but not anymore. If you think that’s “too funny”, well, you, too should join him in his shit-wallowing Neverland world.

Me thinks the Bartels need to get a sense of humor. Sheesh!

Tom is right about this highly annoying trait of MNSpeak: When new people come here, comment on something (which is somewhat of a risk– entering the clique), they often get hammered. That sucks. When new people post– we should support them. Sure, make suggestions for improvement– but some of that can be done off-site. Most who register have e-mail addresses.

And picking on people because they’re Matt’s childhood friend: that’s lame.

Picking on Matt for the pic in the Strib with him on the cover of Minnesota Parent: yeah, that’s cool. Pick up the paper version (or steal it if you work at the Strib) and chuckle. Out loud.

So… no Misc links today?

Yeah. Next topic, please.

I just want to add that Tbartel has been as guilty as anyone of name calling on this site. I recall an early interaction between him and Marsh in which he said that people only go to MSP for recipes, or something equally ha ha hillarious. And he’s been riding Marsh ever since. Rex had a great way of guiding discussions, not trying to control them or driving them into the dirt. A good moderator keeps things interesting and elevated through wit and charm. Hmmmm. I haven’t seen a lot of that from Tbartel. And Matt, he’s basically MIA most of the time.

Dear MNSpeak,

If you want to ban me for starting this, I understand.

Love, rew

This thread just reinforces the notion that Steve Marsh is the poet-laureate of White Bear Lake.

And remember, MNSpeakers…
“Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain – and most fools do.”
–Dale Carnegie

By the way, Yo La Tengo and Sonic Youth will be on Gilmore Girls tonight.

Childishd…You have a point. Both Tom and Steve should be spanked for their name-calling and insults. They both should know better since they are in the same field — unless it’s cool to dis your colleagues online– maybe that’s some journalist freedom I’m not privvy to. I’m kind of tired of reading, “Rex did this and he did that…” God love Rex, but hey, he’s not the owner anymore, so get over it. Change happens, move on and deal. Matt’s in college and my guess is that right now, he’s working on finals, so as to why he’s not living on the site, he might have to occasionally be offline to deal with other stuff, like I should be doing right now. Give him some space and time to make it succeed instead of reverting back to “how it used to be”.

…see Marsh and Minimarsh (Taylor) fomenting whatever the fuck they please…
…what of childish bunch of dipshits hang out here…
…got such a hard on for me?…

It stinks in here.

Um, yeah.

And Marsh is still funny. And Msparber made me cough up my coffee.

You should redeem yourself by live blogging the CD6 convention.

only if Chuck comes with his camera this time so I can prove I’m not a loony.

I’ve been pawing through some threads and since the recipe crack, I can only find one time when Bartel interacted with Marsh at all until last night.

Oddly, this is how it went:

I hate Don.
»» Submitted by stevemarsh at 2:37 PM on March 7

Finally, Marsh and I agree on something: Don.
»» Submitted by »»» TBartel at 2:44 PM on March 7

Maybe I missed them. I tried Googling stevemarsh tbartel mnspeak and only got the one result. It’s hard to follow Marsh since he’s not registered. Please enlighten us, Dippy.

STOOOOOOOP!

I never realized how thin skinned media moguls were!

Buck up little campers and let a little criticism roll off your backs.

Is “Questioning the Sanity of Some Commentators” a Debbie Rybak alias? That would make sense after her big wet kiss to Matty yesterday.

This thread dominates. Best in weeks. Sadly though, I have to return to my smart and mature ASSociate editor position. No more free Marsh for you clowns. $3.99 on the stands, mothers.

I’m convinced that Marsh attended Olaf only because he was denied admission to Carleton (not to mention Macalester), and Marsh’s subsequent inferiority complex motivates his sophomoric derision of Matt.

No, I’m not Debbie. Take your $3.99 + tax and stuff it.

What a loss. I’m going to weep myself to sleep now because I can’t get the scoop on what suburban housewives are reading. O, woe!

I had to go to Lakewood Community College, dude. My inferiority complex goes far beyond not getting into Macalaster or Carleton. I didn’t get into the U for chrissakes. I was working at Circuit City and drinking schnaaps at high school football games before my buddy’s CEO daddy, who was on the board at Olaf, pulled some strings. And let me tell you, I was THRILLED. St. Olaf was the best thing that ever happened to me. I overreacted at first; almost converting to wooden-cross-’round-neck Lutheranism just to fit in on the hill. But after four years of intensive training there, I became a suburban housewife. I think, eat, drive, write, even walk like a suburban housewife. I even hide my Marlboro lights habit from my husband and call Woodbury’s soccer coach to complain about my kid’s playing time despite not having a husband and not having any kids.

I guess that’s why I’m so much more successful than all of you losers. Take notes.

Yeah man, successful people have nothing better to do than brag about it on the internet.

“Ahh, yeah, I’m so successful, I totally rock! What am I gonna do today? Oh, I know! I’ll totally go harp on some interweb dweeby losers who I am way better than! Woo!”

Oh, come on. I’m not one of those asshole successful people, t. I’m keeping it real. I’ll deign to spend some time with you on the internet (not in person though–I’m not that nice). I wouldn’t want you to despair and put a gun in your mouth or anything.

But Steve Marsh, I’m just not even successful enough to be able to afford a gun to put in my mouth! Can’t you please help a poor slob out by telling us the secret to success?

Tom and Matt own this site, and have every right to edit it as they see fit. I just hope they realize before it is too late that their efforts to sanitize comments to make them only positive is doing nothing but alienating people who seem to like the freedom offered by message boards like this.

When your skin becomes so thin that you can allow people to hurt your feelings with their keyboards, well, I think it may be time to reassess if you are in the right line of work.

I never met Rex, but I am beginning to miss him.

As for this site, I doubt I will miss it.

It was cool once, and it may be cool again. I just hope the Bartels figure out how to right the ship before it capsizes.

Best of luck!

-

Later, Nater.

Welcome to teh internet, hipsters.

Oy.

Ya know? There are far more important things going on in this world.