Secrets of the City

Great point. I don’t think it’s a bad thing that there will essentially be a third downtown to compete with the other two, but I hope Mpls and STP can rise to the occasion and make their downtowns a real attraction.

It’s something of a concern, if only because both cities have had fits and starts of inspired development, only to end up with a town fixated heavily on hockey, and an entertainment center that hasn’t lived up anywhere near to its promise.

an entertainment center that hasn’t lived up anywhere near to its promise.

I don’t know what the promise was of block e, but I think it is doing pretty well.

It has a world class hotel, two outstanding restaurants, the only euro-style trendy bar in the city, and a hard rock (as much as that place sucks, it still is a sort of classifier of proper world cities). I’m not really sure what more you could ask of Block e.

As for suburbanites, I don’t know how much they come downtown anyway, given their longing for their Brainard upbringing, and fear of brown people.

Wait, two outstanding restaurants? You lost me there. Bellanotte is passable, and trying to get food there any time past 9 is an exercise in futility and pain. I will admit Cosmos is spectacular though.

The promise of Block E was:
-to be a valuable architectural addition to the city.
-to provide different NON-CHAIN entertainment.
-An “entertainment experience” that provides a compelling reason for people to come downtown.

I do not see that promise being lived up to at all. We have an Applebee’s in there (no matter how great a happy hour they have), a Borders, a Cold Stone, an upcoming Hooters, a Gameworks (I do love the air hockey though), an EB Games, and a Hard Rock Cafe. The former owners of the Loring wanted to have a space in there, but couldn’t afford the rents and the management wasn’t willing to work with them. And, to top it off, the building is an eyesore.

There is plenty to love downtown these days, but Block E (in my opinion), isn’t one of them.

Never been to a Bass Pro, but Cabela’s is a cultural experience that shouldn’t be missed. I wish they’d put one of those closer than Rogers or Owatonna.

hopscotch = world class

I don’t like the fact that Block e is a publicly financed facility. I also abhor chains like Applebees and Jimmy Johns (I’ll give hooters a free pass). That being said, I think you’ll find failures of much grander scale in terms of publicly financed “entertainment complexes” in towns like Detroit, St. Louis, and Duluth (i.e. Fitgers).

The fact that it is almost full occupancy and the fact that it managed to bring anything unique to the city is an accomplishment.

The best thing about Block E in my view is that they have 2 Rear Window captioned movie screens.

The only other options are one at Eden Prairie Center, and the Science Museum Imax.

And p.s., I don’t know who goes to the megamall. Middle aged women and teenage girls, I guess.

I personally can’t imagine a more unpleasant place to be, what with all the crappy stores and food courts.

Financially, you’re absolutely right — Block E has been a success. But when the public financed the place, the promise was to fill it with unique entertainment, not the same old options. When I say it hasn’t lived up to its promise, that’s what I’m referring to.

I don’t anymore, but I used to have access to the MOA’s demographic reports on their visitors, and you’d be amazed at the people showing up there — from college students to suburban housewives to twenty something males to kids whose parents use the MOA as a surrogate babysitter. Not my sort of place, but it draws a pretty diverse crowd.

Block E is thoroughly uninteresting but I love the Mall of America, with one caveat: there’s nothing to eat in the entire place.

One thing that can be said for Block E: it does obstruct the view of Target Center, which is the ugliest thing in downtown. Hands down.

Also, it’s nice to have a movie theater downtown.

Otherwise, yes, a disappointment.

I marvel at my neighbor he has never been the the mega mall. He is a amazing man he used to ride his bike to Bloomington everyday for work but never went to the mall. What a guy I wish I could say I have never been to the Mega Mall. Rock on Wormanator.

When I think of Bass Pro Shops, I don’t think discerning and urbane.

Now, if they opened a fly fishing shop…..

Isn’t something like 30-40 percent of the MOA’s traffic from tourists? There is a reason, you know, that they built it next to the airport.

Whilst reading these comments, I just realized how similar Block E and MOA are. Except the sweatpant to patron ratio is much higher at MOA.

Why exactly wouldn’t a discerning, urbane shopper choose Bass Pro? Or don’t they ever fish?

Besides, can the world (or Bloomington) have enough “massive” aquaria? Bring ‘em on!

Depends on the discerning, urbane shopper, I suppose. Though I’d be quite curious to see the expected shopper profile at Bass Pro and the profile of the shopper MOA is hoping for.

Though really, who are we kidding? As long as they have money, the mall will be happy to have them there.

Here’s a thought. Why don’t all the urban types go to MOA for a day, and all the suburban types go to Block E? I think you’ll find the clientele is much the same except for two things. There will be a lot more people at MOA, and the Bloomington cops are a lot better at keeping the atmosphere “unthreatening.” I wonder if there’s a correlation.

In the meantime, can we quit calling suburbanites racists? It’s getting really old. I know plenty of city dwellers who don’t like being hassled non-stop downtown either.

I love MOA. Seriously. Last time I was there (last Thursday), I saw a over-tanned, bleach blonde, stick thin suburban teenage girl walking around with her friends and arm loads of shopping bags. She was wearing a Hooters tank top. In the same proximity, there was an enormous whale of a man with a t-shirt that said, “Full Size or NO size”.

It was great.

Though I’d be quite curious to see the expected shopper profile at Bass Pro and the profile of the shopper MOA is hoping for.

It sounds like you have some sort of expectations or assumptions; would you be willing to just come out and share them? Here, I’ll start: I have an expectation or assumption that if our conversation were to last long enough, at least one joke about NASCAR fans would be made. Also, I might be found out as a troll – but I might not! I don’t even know why I’m sticking up for Bass Pro, although I DO really like their trucker hats! Why don’t people wear mesh baseball caps anymore? But I digress even further…

Though really, who are we kidding? As long as they have money, the mall will be happy to have them there.

A-greed.

I think the last time I went to the Mall was a few months ago when my girlfriend and I were filmed for a television show called “Instant Fashion Show” or something. We ran around the Mall with Debbie Matenopoulis and a full film crew, buying clothes, while the crew helpfully knocked people out of our way and store clerks rushed up to assist us. It was great.

Wait. We went back a couple of weeks ago. But it wasn’t the same without the film crew.

As for the “second downtown”, I thought that was MOA already — even that empty top floor is busier than downtown St. Paul after 5pm.

The “first downtown” would have to be Minneapolis, and I’ll bet that just as commuters empty town for the workday, their kids are rolling on in to keep the Minneapolitan-to-suburbanite ratio fairly stable. There’s a reason why the clientele downtown look nothing like the people you see on Eat Street, South Lyndale, or University (West and Nordeast).

In the meantime, can we quit calling suburbanites racists? It’s getting really old. I know plenty of city dwellers who don’t like being hassled non-stop downtown either.

The irony of course is that these charges most likely to come from people who grew up in Hicksville and who probably never met a person of color until they went away to college. Now he’s an expert on racism because he met some black kids on campus. Nothing like a tour at Carleton, Macalester or the U to ruin a good country kid for life as he feels the need to appear hip to his smug and judgemental peers.

I was born and raised in the city, but I find myself frequently defending suburbanites. I think the attack on suburbia is really about a defense of collectivism (and a counterattack on individualism). Suburbanites are seen as people who have escaped the collective as surely as if they had scaled the Berlin wall. And those who prefer the perceived advantages of the city get nervous when they realize that those with the financial wherewithall to maintain the collective (since it’s become really expensive as we knew it would), are choosing to live and spend their tax dollars elsewhere. This must be stopped. So they lash out by calling suburbanites names, racist just being one of the more creative ones.

Except there’s a big yellow ridey thing that goes to both places. Nowhere else, but it goes to both DT and MOA. It’s still new enough to be a novelty.

Wee! We’re on a TRAIN!

I love the MOA; I go there about once a week. (I was just there yesterday.) I was all about the first proposed expansion, but I guesss Bloomington wasn’t too excited about a casino. This one should be great, though, and it looks like there will be plenty of parking. I hope all goes as planned.

There aren’t many great restaurants at the MOA, but there are a few spots worth stopping in. Napa Valley Grille, California Cafe, and Tucci Benucch are all good for a nice lunch. There’s also Famous Dave’s and Twin City Grill; both are pretty popular (though not exactly vegetarian-friendly). For quick-serve, there’s Wolfgang Puck Express or the Crepe Stand. The food courts have a couple of good staples, too, like Baja, Charley’s, and now Arthur Treacher’s.

Generally, though, I just stop at Godiva for a Dark Chocolate Cold Chocolixir (hold the whipping cream) and sometimes a little pretzel action at Auntie Annie’s. I love mall pretzels.

I’ve gotten tired of the MOA b/c it does cater so much to the tourists and not enough to the people who live here. There seem to be more of the same type of MOA stores or MN souvenir shops than anything else. And the food does suck. I try to do most of my mall shopping at EP center, but not when the little 7th graders flood the movie theatre on the weekends. I’d rather go to Uptown or downtown MPLS to do shopping or especially lunch

Dining at the Mall of America hasn’t been the same since the demise of Hulk Hogan’s Pastamania. The Hulkaroni Alfredo was tops!

I dont’ go to MOA cause it’s a pain in the ass. Much easier to hit the nearest Assdale when I need a tie or a new pillow or something. I never go downtown. Ever. Except for Twins games.

I actually like MOA too. I’m one of the rare people who enjoys the Macy’s (I just got a new suit there for under $300!). I also love The Art Major gallery– a new place with almost all student art. Cool stuff.

And the food is pretty good at Wolfgang Puck’s place. I just like the people watching, and the Apple store.

Jason, George whaszitname from Men’s Wearhouse can suit you up for cheap. He, uh, guarantees it.

Much easier to hit the nearest Assdale when I need a tie or a new pillow or something.

Agreed. MOA has nothing that you can’t find at any other suburban mall… just more of it. And more people, and more parking hassles. It’s the seventh circle of hell as far as I’m concerned. MOA also seems disproportionately populated by “waddlers…” those who are so morbidly obese that they can’t really walk normally — they waddle. And they tend to waddle 2-3 abreast, making it difficult for others to maneuver. Am I alone in noticing this?

I much prefer to shop downtown, which, while severely limited in selection, makes up for it with a much quieter, more relaxed experience. And fewer waddlers in general.

dtester – quite brilliant your ‘collective’ theory.

It is quite true that those that cling to the ‘collective’ fear those who have broken free, and are also loath to admit they actually detest the ‘lower elements’ that make the collective dangerous.

So they ‘project’ that fear onto those who have broken free by calling them ‘racist’.

Fear of brown people? If ‘brown people’ are statistically proven to be the committers of the vast majority of crime, then healthy fear of them is just a form of prudent self preservation?

Ahhhhhhhhhhh. I love it.

And I love my exurban acreage too.

I used to love the city and in fact lived there for over 15 years.

It changed.

I don’t know that fear and loathing is that prevalent among city people toward the suburbs.

I have nothing against the Maple Groves of this world. I just don’t want to live there. I don’t like having to drive everywhere. I think what you gain in less crime, you lose in more dangerous driving conditions. The more you’re on the road, the greater your chances.

so can well call the metro the triplet cities yet? rename the baseball team ‘the triplets’ and make a few other adjustments?

I mean they connected mpls with moa before stp. that’s got to mean something

Rest assured Bass Pro will have an extensive fly fishing department.

It is also the key to MOA’s strategy to give dad a reason to come to MOA.

I think we’ve covered the burbs/urban question here exhaustively many times. My preference is certainly on record. But what I find really interesting, along with the “collective” theory (I’m not sure I buy it, but it’s intriguing) is the urban planning aspects of it. Comparing urban areas, Mpls/St. Paul has a lot more in common with L.A. than it does with the more traditional European-style cities along the Eastern seaboard. And the problems we complain of seem to be directly related to that…

I’d shop at Assdale….

I’d shop at Assdale….

Sex World is almost big enough to be consided a -dale. New name Assdale.

As for suburbanites, I don’t know how much they come downtown anyway, given their longing for their Brainard upbringing, and fear of brown people.

Funny, but 3/4 of the people that I know that are terribly concerned about being “urban” and living in Uptown or hanging out Downtown are from small towns in the first place.