Secrets of the City

Sorry for the late post. I was out late and up early workin for the man.

Riding bikes on streets should be prohibited if there is significant snowfall such as we had last week or during a snow emergency. Having to keep an eye out for a biker who can hardly pedal makes an already dangerous driving situation even worse. This is especially a problem around the U of M where I saw about a dozen bikers get stuck or completely wipe out on Washington Avenue last Monday.

Think about it, on a day where 120 buses get stuck or have accidents, do we really want people trying to navigate our streets on bicycles? I don’t think it’s too much to ask of bicycle commuters to take the bus for a day or two until the streets can be adequately cleaned.

Kevin – I totally disagree. One should always be in control of thier car (or bus) and if not then they should not drive that day. It seems to me that bus drivers in particular are often on the edge of being out of control, something I never understand since they do nothing but drive in circles. Why do they care if they go fast?

A biker should have the same expectation – to be under control at all times – but if they can do this in the snow, which is not really that difficult at really slow speeds, then they should not be banned from the street. If anything bikers should be given some slack because they are very unlikely to hurt anyone else whereas a out of control SUV can kill lots of children and old women and cute puppies…

I’m not sure where to fall on this issue…. I bike to work most days and would encourage anyone who lives within reasonable distance of their workplace to do the same, but yeah… biking in the snow is pretty sketchy.

Bikes certainly have a right to be there, but if you go down right in front of a car and they run you over, it seems like it could lead to all sorts of legal wranglin’.

Probably best to take the bus or stay home and read a good book if at all possible.

Well then maybe what we need is for bikers to use good judgment. To me, that would mean if multi-ton vehicles have trouble navigating roads then my bike plus 150-pound body won’t have much luck either.

My buddy has got one of those bikes — super sweet! You don’t need roads for this bike.

And by the way, how about all drivers (no matter what vehicle they are using) being responsible for using good judgement. Prohibiting bikes. Funny.

Personally, humiliation has prevented me from riding my bike in the winter. I once took a spill on an icy sidewalk, much to the enjoyment of the passing traffic. However, the point wasn’t driven home until I wiped out again in front of the same cars who were now stopped for a red light. On my resulting walk to Calculus with my bike over my shoulder, I decided that I would never have the skills to make it as a bike messenger in Minneapolis.

Name that pig: Bratwurst to Be

the law is that cars are required to give bikes, regardless of season, safe clearance of three feet, measured from the safest place inside the curb. i think the law is fair and good. but I would.

kevin, how about this: I don’t think it’s too much to ask of car commuters to take the bus for a day or two until the streets can be adequately cleaned.

How many cars cracked up in that snow that day? How much damage to private property and worse?

FWIW, i have studded tires on my bike, and as a result am frequently more sure-footed than most four-wheelers. It is wise to worry about all you bellicose and incompetent drivers, though, so I stick to empty side streets or cleared main arteries.

Hubert H Hamphrey.

I love Pugsleys! Surly is a brand from the Bloomington company Quality Bicycle Products, and somehow last month I found myself at their annual convention. Late on Saturday night they were holding drunken Pugsley races in the woods behind the company — in 15 degrees below. Now that’s a pretty cool company.

nick coleman needs a good cockpunching

notthatmatt-

Why do bus drivers drive fast? Short answer: tight schedules and short breaks (usually with a hike to a restroom). Driving bus is not the glamorous career it’s cracked up to be. ha.

Well said, Hans. I bike to work every day, mostly on the Greenway, and I’m still baffled when drivers think they’re entitled to every inch of the lane, or that I should be whizzing past pedestrians at near-traffic speeds. This winter, I did OK with just a knobby 30C tire, but next time, winter won’t be so mild, and I’ll definitely want a 35/40C studded tire to feel like I’ve got some control when I zip along those crusty ice patches.

By the way, THIS is the ultimate snow bike:

http://www.ventanausa.com/gallery/3jimjill_ecq_lg.jpg

cjc – So you are saying the system is set up to encourage bad driving of huge busses. Seems like this should be addressed. If not someone is going to get hurt and thier lawyer is going to drag all the drivers into court to testify against the city for having a system that encourages bad driving. That could get expensive.

I thought that Burn Journal thing was going to be a Lindsay Lohan sequal to Mean Girls. Boy was I wrong.

If bar owners think the cost of lost business due to a smoking ban is ridiculous, just imagine if they actually had to take up the liabilities of exposing their employees to conditions that put a coal mine to shame. Let’s see them offer the health, life, and disability insurance worthy of anyone working in such a toxic environment.

Wow: two references to me in the links list. And I didn’t even buy lunch for Matt yesterday! Fantastic!

Who are most inconsiderate drivers on the roads?

The ones on bicycles!

I only walk about four or five blocks to work, and every time it snows I notice fences and signposts knocked over and sometimes broken glass and plastic scattered about on the sidewalk too. I know it’s already been said, but maybe drivers should take the bus on snowy days. It seriously fightens me to see the results of what must be many cars veering off the road onto the sidwalk just on my short trek to work. I would hate to be walking along one day when it happens because some jackass simply has to keep doing the speed limit even if the road conditions are dangerous. Bikes aren’t going to wipe out and kill a pedestrian on the sidwalk, now are they?

Oh, and Eric, stuff it. Bicycles don’t try to run pedestrians down in crosswalks and bicycles don’t try to run over people in cars. Just because you have to spend ten or fifteen seconds (tops!) slowed down by a biker doesn’t mean they’re inconsiderate. Bikers have rights too and I’m sick and fucking tired of people acting like they don’t. I could ride in the middle of the lane if I wanted to, but I tend only to do this when the edge is unsafe, which is sadly quite often the case around here.

That bike looks sweet.

I think I unintentionally hit on one of Minnesota’s festering bothersomes: the war between bikers and drivers. One side thinks it owns the entire road, the other side thinks the other side is a bunch of facists hellbent on destroying the earth to fit their own selfish desires.

My thought is that it is extremely stupid to put myself on a bicycle amidst automobiles traveling 30+ miles per hour. Hence, I stick to sidestreets and designated trails. My desire to remain alive trumps my desire to prove to someone in a Denali that I can ride my bike.

And I don’t know where anyone is coming from about buses. Maybe these are the same car drivers who insist on driving halfway in the buses-only shoulder along 94. I ride four buses every day and the vast majority of unsafities I see are cars darting in front of a bus to turn right, which is a good recipie for death, and cars rushing to turn left in front of an oncoming bus, which is also a good recipie for death. Some drivers don’t seem to realize that buses have right of way.

there’s inconsiderate, and there’s inconsiderate.

mostly this is just sour grapes from people who roll through stops themselves, speed with regularity, cut off other drivers, and then go ballistic when they see a bike blow off a red light.

i am often “inconsiderate” on my bike to make sure that I am visible to drivers who would otherwise run me down or off the road. for example, i take three feet from parked cars, and occupy a portion of the lane with YOUR name on it (apparently), because I don’t want to get doored, and then flung in front of your tires, thus turning you into an unwitting perpretator of negligent homicide. and I often run red lights to stay OUT of the way of traffic. beyond all that, I am one less car for you to try to pass illegally on a city street because you’re in such a goddam hurry to get to wherever you’re going.

so there.

Getting behind a bicycles for 10 or 15 seconds doesn’t bother me much at all. It is when they cut in front of you without warning. Or when you are stopped a red light and the ride along the side of you bumping and scratching your car, then giving you the look like is is your fault. Or, riding through intersections without looking for cars or pedestrians.

In other words, it is the bicyclist who think that they are superior the cars that I can’t stand.

An old instructor of mine once said that he’s tired of all the anti-bike rhetoric and wants to make a shirt that says “One Less Car” on the back. I think that’s a great way of looking at it.

One car fewer.

Eric- just keep bitching about it online and dont get angry with your car. I am often shocked by the way people will use thier cars to intimidate bikers. This is normally accomplished by d Bikers are really exposed out there and even if they piss you off one simply can not endanger others intentionally.

Weird typo but you get the idea. Cool it with the road rage people.

Everyone should have to bike to work for a year. We would all be better drivers, get in better shape, have less stres, use less fuel, and be more connected with the community.

That said I am driving to work nowadays.

Maybe I’m just Pollyannish, but I ride thousands of miles every year, and I’d say there’s a 50/50 split in fault between me and the driver when a conflict arises, which is not to say it happens often. If anything, most drivers are TOO nice to bikers, and try to let people through, even with the right of way. — that just stacks up cars behind them, and may be for naught, since they’ve got no control over traffic in the opposite direction.

kevin, just to be clear, i have nothing to prove to the Denalis out there, although i’m not crazy about just how much of the road they do take up, or how they require others around them to pick up the slack for their inability to actually see normal-sized traffic.

most bike riders i know harbor a tiny bit of hatred not for cars–hell, i own two of them myself– but for anti-bike drivers of cars. you’d be surprised at how many times i’ve been violently accosted and physically threatened by irate, irrational drivers, while just tooling along minding my own biz.

Generally, I do not choose my route to irritate the greatest number of SUV drivers. I am merely trying to get to my destination using the most obvious, direct road or trail. As you note, safety too is a consideration.

Since this thread is leaning towards biking, this might be a good place to ask for some information I’ve been looking for. I will be planning to commute by bike this spring. Coming from Fridley, I need to get from Marshall St. to Stinson Blvd, along Broadway. I’m an experienced cycler, but Broadway makes me a little leary, as a lot of it in this 2 mile stretch is has pretty narrow lanes, and really rough curb areas. Should I just grit my teeth and take my place in the lane when needed, or does anybody have any suggested alternative routes?

i don’t know anything about routes from north into the city, but I did see a really cool self-published, anonymous zine around the coffee shops last year called “Routes I Know” that was all about secret/fastest paths to get around the city on a bike. if no one perks up with relevant information, i’d check at a bike shop/coffee shop like One On One (Washington Ave.) or C-R-C (34th & Lyndale?), if they don;t have that zine, they’ll have others–or they’ll know the dope themselves.

Yes, “Bar owners argue against smoking ban.”

Poorly.

I’m tired of idiot drivers assuming they know the law. It ticks me off when I have some fool yell at me for not being over in the right turn only lane when i am going straight, not turning right. Somehow, not always being all the way to the right freaks car drivers out. Seriously, I got yelled at three seperate occasions in one day in downtown St. Paul.

I don’t car what people say, the Twin Cities is a crappy place to ride a bike.

PS I always use hand turn signals and obay traffic signs and lights and most other bikers I see do as well.

alamn, wasn’t there enough in the other thread? Aren’t you done with it yet? Seriously.

no it’s not, saloth. what other American city has an equivalent amount of dedicated bike path? none. and it should be said that if there were more money in the city coffers, then maybe more bike paths would be plowed in the winter, and make it easier for bikes to stay out of the way. in the summer, almost my entire commute can be made quite happily on bike paths where i’m not “borrowing” the road from cars. not so in the winter.

this is not a trivial subject, and winter bike commuters are not a crazy fringe element. more than one recent study has shown that MSP has the highest number of bike commuters of any northern tier city.

I just wish people on bicycles followed the same traffic rules those of us in cars do. Meaning they need to stop at red lights. But they never, ever do.

Why do you think they should follow the same rules as you? I run red lights because I can and I’m in a hurry. You want the same freedom? Then get the fuck out of your car. Otherwise grip your steering wheel a little tighter in envy and deal with it.

And the number of bike paths has nothing to do with how bike-friendly a city is. All the miles and miles of bike paths demonstrate is how much the city wants bikes off roads “where they don’t belong.”

I used to be somewhat as passive as you hans but I learned my lesson a long time ago. That’s my space and I attack any car that invades it.

“You want the same freedom? Then get the fuck out of your car. Otherwise grip your steering wheel a little tighter in envy and deal with it.”

+1

demonstrate is how much the city wants bikes off roads “where they don’t belong.”

That is the problem! I don’t think bikes belong on the road because they disrupt the flow of traffic! We don’t allow pedestrians, segways, atvs, etc on the roadways, I don’t under why bicycles are allowed either.

All this because I suggested bicycle riders should stop for red stoplights? You people are insane.

Why do you think they should follow the same rules as you? I run red lights because I can and I’m in a hurry. You want the same freedom? Then get the fuck out of your car. Otherwise grip your steering wheel a little tighter in envy and deal with it.

I used to be somewhat as passive as you hans but I learned my lesson a long time ago. That’s my space and I attack any car that invades it.

“I just wish people on bicycles followed the same traffic rules those of us in cars do. Meaning they need to stop at red lights. But they never, ever do.”

I always wait out red lights on my bike. Use hand signals, too. I take the most direct route to a bike path. I’m no idiot. I know where I’m not wanted.

But I agree, there’s a lot of bad riding going on out there. That’s the reason I do what I do.

If you want to see some great bike riders, visit Copenhagen. Not too many fancy bikes or hellbent drivers. They stay on designated routes and use hand signals when they turn.

Pretty orderly group.

I think the arrogance displayed here by bicyclists who somehow think they are entitled to the use of our roads is quite ballsy. Drivers pay MVST and gas tax, which help fund our roads and streets. Bikers pay neither of these, yet they feel they are entitled to space on the road. State law needs to be changed to ban these freeloaders from our roads until they start paying something like the rest of us do.

Repaying arrogance with arrogance.

This whole debate is a recipe for rancor.

“arrogance displayed here by bicyclists who somehow think they are entitled to the use of our roads…”

Are you being ironic or sarcastic? Is that performance art? Bikers are entitled to the roads same as cars, that’s the law end of story. Manners could be better in all aspects of public life including among bikers, car drivers and mnspeak commenters. It’s hard to imagine that Kevin didn’t know his original comment in this thread would spark this cliche debate.

I am well aware of the law and I think bikers are getting a free ride (no pun intended). The rest of us have to pay to use the roads, you don’t. As I said earlier, the law needs to be changed to disallow bikers from the road or make them contribute financially like the rest of us.

That’s silly, leaving aside the public good of having people choose to bike instead of drive, I own a car so my taxes do support the roads. I just would rather ride my bike.

If you weren’t living here when the Metrodome was payed for should you get, in effect, a subsidized ticket for events there? (to mention just one flaw in your logic.)

“the law needs to be changed to disallow bikers from the road or make them contribute financially like the rest of us.”

Should that start when we reach training-wheel age or when?

Are you being ironic or sarcastic? Is that performance art?

Good point.

I am starting to think that “Kevin” just functions to stir shit up. I think he is really a lefty, gay, bikecycling, vegan, social worker, who works to get hadguns outlawed. He is just trying to rally the base with his posts.

Ok that was kind of mean. Kevin often seems to make interesting points.

Sorry Kevin don’t mean to pick on you but I do wonder if you really are not just trying to get people all worked up.

And did I really write “bikecycling”??

This site needs a spellcheker. Bad.

Actually, I am MDE.

notthatmatt-

I should note that I mean what I said as explanation, definitely not as excuse. We’re taught to drive safely and defensively.

I think the tight bus schedules are getting addressed, but not necessarily in the light of safety issues. Metro Transit is contractually obligated to provide a certain percentage of time (I think 17%, but I’m not at all sure) as break time/layover time. With the addition of GPS in all the buses, it is now possible to track and prove which routes and which trips are not staying on time and therefore not allowing enough driver break time.

On the other hand, MT’s relatively new general manager Brian Lamb seems to understand that work conditions need to be improved. I’ve heard through the grapevine that much of the schedule reform is a result of his effort.

And for what it’s worth, I only have to hurry on about three of my trips all week. The rest of them are all timed pretty well.

I don’t know if anyone else will see this again, but for fuck’s sake “Kevin,” those fees and taxes don’t even come close to covering the entire cost of keeping up roads. Money for roads also comes out of general funds at every level of government (which anyone who pays taxes DOES contribute to). Furthermore bicycles do almost no damage to roads, whereas cars (and especially large trucks or even SUVs) tear them to shreds.

So I think our contribution via the general funds is more than enough to cover our usage.

I know that was probably just a troll, but people actually think that way so I wanted to point this out.

well said…

right-o, trig.

the “you bikers don’t pay for the roads, you shouldn’t get to use them” is the dumbest piece of infinitely repeated claptrap that is ever uttered, and nothing but a troll.

for starters, most bike riders actually DO own cars (like i said, i own two of them), and pay the same fees and gas taxes that Kevin does. i just choose to use my car when its impossible to go by bike.

you know, red cars disproportionately speed, we should outlaw those. Buses and large SUVs impede vision, they should go. Priuses and Coopers are way too small, you can’t see them in parking lots. Crosswalks are dangerous, those should be eliminated–walking should be illegal, people should either stay home or drive a mid-sized sedan.

Gosh, the more I think about, the more I realize only Kevin and Eric should get to use the roads, in their cars.