Secrets of the City

Lots of strib stuff today.

I support whatever the owner of the Holy Land deli does because the Holy Land deli is the bomb.

“I respect freedom of speech,” he continued, “but I think there must be limits. I think there should be an international law to protect beliefs.

I don’t know how I can even respond to this statement…

I ate at the Holy Land Friday, it was delicious.

I must say, the entire reaction of the Muslim world is an interesting lesson in the way freedom of speech is interpreted elsewhere. That quote above sums it up. Very different from the U.S. idea of free speech… which protects even the most loathesome speech.

And I prefer the Muslim quote in this story:
“We are very upset Muslims have responded with violence,” [Imani] Jaafar-Mohammed said. “Islam is a religion of peace. The world Islam literally means ‘peace through submission to god.’”

Holy Land is the bomb. But I’m not sure about an international law to protect beliefs. Something tells me that could backfire.

I’m going to have my birthday party at the Holy Land Deli in April.

I have the sudden urge for a cherry danish. Or maybe blueberry.

Is there a solid list of businesses that are going into the market in the Sears building?

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

Like most immigrants, he has absorbed much of the Minnesota culture. He appreciates the work ethic. He is frustrated annually by the play of the Vikings. He has adapted to the weather.

“Like most immigrants, I have absorbed much of the Minnesota culture. I appreciate the work ethic. I am frustrated annually by the play of the Vikings. I have adapted to the weather.”
-Majdi Wadi’s actual quote, perhaps?

This site doesn’t get updated a whole lot, but it might have the info you’re looking for on the Sears building. I know the major tenant is Alina.

Okay I see the link doesn’t work right. Just go to http://www.midtownexchange.com.

Idiot.

Try this.

Anyone else see the news about Iran’s version of Freedom Fries? They’ve renamed danishes “Mohammedan pastry”.

WCCO: MN Muslims Peacefully Protest Cartoons

Mo’ money, Mo’ hammed, I always say.

Lovingly horked from Eyeteeth:

Has Jyllands-Posten insulted and disrespected Islam? It certainly didn’t intend to. But what does respect mean? When I visit a mosque, I show my respect by taking off my shoes. I follow the customs, just as I do in a church, synagogue or other holy place. But if a believer demands that I, as a nonbeliever, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect, but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy.

This is exactly why Karl Popper, in his seminal work “The Open Society and Its Enemies,” insisted that one should not be tolerant with the intolerant. Nowhere do so many religions coexist peacefully as in a democracy where freedom of expression is a fundamental right. In Saudi Arabia, you can get arrested for wearing a cross or having a Bible in your suitcase, while Muslims in secular Denmark can have their own mosques, cemeteries, schools, TV and radio stations.

Best quote I’ve seen yet about any of this mess.

“Even if a billion people are wrong, you have to respect their beliefs,” Wadi said. “Besides do you really think a billion people all are wrong?

I’m confused here; which billion people are right and which billion people are wrong?

Mohammedan? I love that adjective and will start using it a lot now.

I guess I won’t be ording Gyros with Harvarti cheese anytime soon.

Cheese on gyros?

i’m totally having lunch @ Holy Land this week.
hopefully i’ll remember to bring my video camera…

I put American cheese on falafel. People may sneer, but it tastes great.

In other news, I wonder how the Middle East would fare if Western businesses boycotted them every time a Muslim newspaper ran a grotesquely antisemitic cartoon.

I think it’s safe to say that if we boycotted every time a Muslim extremist…nope, I think better of it.

I love cheese on gyros.

I think it’s safe to say that, in general, saner heads aren’t going to prevail in this situation. However, it is rather interesting how enthusiastic many people are to put limits on free speech, no matter what country you’re in. Look at our own debate over flag burning, porn, and plenty of other hot button issues.

Huh…cheesy gyros…never tried it. I’ll have to give that a shot.

richq, you hit it right on the head with flag burning. We look at the muslims doing crazy shit over this cartoon and say, “Damn what a bunch of backwards ass fucks” and then we have our own Taliban (the right wing of the GOP) wanting the exact same thing.

For an extra heaping helping of irony, you can study analytical philosophy and semiotics, which actually explains all of this crap, and become one of the reviled “academic elite.”

Clear something up for me. Are Muslims protesting the free speech that gives the cartoonist the ability to draw the cartoons or are they protesting what he drew in the cartoons?

Kevin I think you typify the problem exactly.

Western Civilization in general has absolutely no understanding of the muslim faith.

Wait, wait, wait. Are you saying if “the west” understood Islam better this would not be happening?

Please clear that up now, too, because that’s how your comment reads to me.

To muslims printing these pictures is like yelling fire in a crowded theater. Europeans are some of the least religious people in the world and after seeing the 60 minutes Interview with the Dutch Journalists it seemed to me that they had no idea this reaction even a possibility. To them religion is a quaint relic from the past, not something to burn an embassy over.

Did anyone in America even know before this happened that muslims ban pictures of Mohammed?

So much for years of sleeping through cultural diversity training classes.

I’m not saying that rioting was the correct response, because is it not, but if we’re ever going to have a semblance of peace in this world we have to start to understand people that do not hold the same values and beliefs. There are over a billion muslims world wide and only a little less than 300 million US citizens. I think we forget sometimes that the Judeo-Christian faiths are a minority in the world.

All good points, Mpls Simpleton — except I think we’re better off with the assumption that the right to free speech should generally trump a desire to be free from upsetting ideas. In a world with myriad religions, religious people need to accept the probability that they will be offended from time to time.

I don’t understand your statement that “if we’re ever going to have a semblance of peace in this world we have to start to understand people that do not hold the same values and beliefs.” Why shouldn’t that need for understanding start with the people who rioted instead of the people who printed a newspaper?

I agree with everything you said, but I think you missed a key portion of the equation. In order for your theory of cultural understanding to function effectively, it can’t just be the Western world taking on the burden of understanding, otherwise we’re just subjugating ourselves to another culture’s values, as mentioned on Eyeteeth. Understanding? Absolutely. But there should be enough understanding on both sides so that we don’t need to tiptoe around one another. Of course, that’s just a utopian pipe dream.

Now personally, I don’t see that anyone is fully in the right on this. Yes, the Danish press has every right to print those cartoons. But the other European papers should’ve realized that, once the protests began, they have a responsibility to their citizenry and readership not to poke the hornet’s nest (feel free to disagree with me).

And zenrhino, it’s too late for me. I’m working on my MA in CSCL — focusing on semiotics. This debate, along with the push-pull going on in D.C., really means everyone should read “How To Do Things With Words.” Now I better take off before someone tells me what I can do with my ivory tower…

What is CSCL and who wrote that book about words?

Freedom of speech is just that. Freedom.

You can protest the image, fine. It may be in poor taste, and you most definitely have the right to feel offended, write letters to the editor, etc., but anyone who protests the RIGHT to publish that image or thinks there should be laws against such images is a wanker.

It is most definitely NOT analogous to yelling fire in a theater.

As an aside, there’s nothing wrong with yelling fire in a crowded theater if there is, in fact, a fire.

CSCL is Cultural Studies and Comparative Literature, one of the best little departments at the University. Totally unbiased: I only took one class there, and didn’t do very well in it, but they’ve got some great faculty. A lot of interesting conversations.

“How To Do Things With Words” is by J.L. Austin. Great book.

To them religion is a quaint relic from the past, not something to burn an embassy over.

Simpleton, you are so right. All the embassies, (and Muslims and Jews,) were burned in Europe for religious reasons hundreds of years ago. What the Muslims need is a good religious war among themselves, like the Christians did, before they turn on us.

Oh wait…

To muslims printing these pictures is like yelling fire in a crowded theater.

Well, if it’s forbidden for Muslims to make images of Mohammed, then it should be forbidden for everyone, right? Just as, if abortion is murder in the eyes of some Christians, all women should be denied the opportunity to have an abortion. Right?

Oh, wait.