Secrets of the City

MNBeer.com has been all over this brewery.

I had a Surly Serious last night at Cafe Twenty Eight, and I had to send it back – it was truly awful. I like Trappist beers and other Dutch and Belgians and on the heels of a Rochefort 8, this beer was like malted grapefruit juice. It must be pointed out, though, that I also do not like Summit – whatever that’s worth.

Anywhere else to get it besides those two places?

What flavor is on tap?
I may have to take a trip to Solera this weekend for a pint.

I’m pretty forgiving. I like everything from Belgian Triples to Milwaukee’s Best. I’m sure it will fall inbetween somewhere.

I’m not sure they are looking to appeal to the beer snob crowd with a name like Surly.

I wonder why such a limited release so far. My opinion:
1) Summit EPA is the best beer you can buy in MN. Local beer always tastes better b/c it is fresh, and Summit just does a really good job.

2) James Page has always had problems. Their beer was inconsistant- when it was good, it was very good, but at least one quarter of the time it tasted like cleanser- I don’t think they scrubbed their tanks properly.

3) I can wait to try Surly- hopefully it tastes more like Summit than James Page.

I just did the Summit brewery tour last weekend, it was great. You put a Summit EPA in my hand and I am a happy, happy man. I’ve also had a fair amount of home brew from friends and I’m usually impressed. The brewery tour really emphasized how difficult it is to successsfully produce beer, the hardest part being consistency… Sure, you can make a couple gallons of something good. If it’s tasty, you give a bottle to a friend when they come over. But that’s a lot different than delivering kegs to bars around town week after week that people won’t taste a bit of difference between.

I wish these guys luck, local beer is the best.

I’ve never been a big fan of “Slummit” …maybe it is an aquired taste. I’m looking forward to trying the Surly beer. I always try to “Support your local brewery” as Schell’s puts it. (I love Schell’s beer, btw.)

OH! I’m not alone! I’ve never been a Summit fan, either.

I’m really looking forward to trying Surly soon. I love Summit, especially the winter and EPA, but I’m ready for something new to come out of Minnesota.

I just came from Wisconsin where I had to pick up a few six packs of Spotted Cow and a few bottles of the Wisconsin Belgian Red (Cherry beer) from the New Glarus Brewing Company. I just wish we could get it in MN.

Those of you that don’t like Summit, what beers do you like? (Just wondering what end of the beer spectrum you are on)

Gerg, you hit it right on the head.

Hobbyists can crank out a batch and have it come out reasonably resembling the last batch. It’s tech from the 1600s, not rocket science.

But it really and truly takes engineers to make the exact same beer day in day out with varying crops of barley going to maltsters, varying crops of hops coming in, and changes in water chemistry. And that’s to say nothing of the vagaries of Saccharomyces cerevisiae, the fussiest life form humans have ever tried to domesticate.

I worked for a microbrewery in OR and can say a few things in Surly’s defense if their beer isn’t what barhoppers like (and having had a Grain Belt Premium, I wonder WTF it is you would like):

* Beer is like music or art or food — a word that can mean a lot of different things. You have to expect sometimes that when you hear hoofbeats, you’re going to get zebras instead of horses.

* Beer business is 20% product and 80% marketing. Even if your beer sucks (Bud, Grain Belt, etc.) you can sell lots of it. Even if your beer rules you may never sell more than a few hundred cases or kegs. “Art” beers like Trappists or barleywines or sweet stouts get made because starry-eyed brewers think great beer sells itself. Crappy lawnmower beers get made because marketing guys want to sell lots of lowest common denominator beer to the most people with the least discriminating palates. Which would you rather have? There’s room for both.

* Support your local brewers! Don’t like Surly or Summit? Have some of that kickass Vienna lager they have at the Chatterbox or a (ugh) Grain Belt. We have a really great beer culture (pun intended, beer geeks) but that can go away in a hurry without lots of support.

My thoughts on Summit: it’s really one of the most extreme beers you can buy. It’s almost an experiment in hops. I like that in certain circumstances, but not always.

Moe,

I’d buy PBR before I drank another Summit, but I regularly enjoy James Page brews–they’re my favorite locals. I’ve also never had a bad beer from Lake Superior Brewing Co.

Rex, if you can find a 6-pack left from the holiday season, try Sierra Nevada Pale Ale. It’s about 65 IBU, and dry hopped with Cascades. Hopalicious.

Also, if you’re a beer nerd you have to make a roadtrip to the brewpub in Duluth. I forget the name of it, but holy cow do they do a great job.

moe: I like smooth lagers and ales with a richer flavor and not so much snap and bite. I especially love wheat beers like Paulaner and Wittekerke. My favorite brew of all time might be McEwan’s Scotch Ale; I like to roll it around on my tongue for a while before I swallow.

I consistently drink Budweiser or Stella at the bars, though. Better beers are often just too expensive. I have wine-lover friends who do the same thing; buy cheap wine by the glass when we go out and keep the good stuff at home.

I’m a homebrewer, so this sort of stuff is my cup of tea. I haven’t had Surly yet, but I definitely will. There are so many good locally brewed beers here in this state, you could start a bar that only serves Minnesotan and have 8-10 things on tap.
Out of all the good beer here though, no one will ever beat Town Hall Brewery’s stuff. They’re consistent, about as fresh as you can get without putting a glass in the fermenter, and it seems like it’s a little bit stronger than a lot of beer.

Summit has never appealed to me either – I never understood why some people are such fans of it – but to each their own.

FYI – Surly is also in tap at Acadia (Franklin & Nicollet).

Re: Duluth. You’re probably thinking of Fitgers.

Re: MN beers. A bar that served Minnesota beers on tap would be awesome! Or maybe, Minnesota/Wisconsin beers. I would totally go.

Beer geek rumor.

Fat Tire will soon be available in the Twin cities.

The Minneapolis distributor will be Mark VII. I think they cover a substantial part of St. Paul also.

I love Fat Tire. One of my friends would always bring back a six pack from Seattle for me. I’ve heard rumors that it was coming here…bout’ time!

That’d be another good list: beers we wish were more available in Minnesota!

Whenever I’m on the East Coast I look for Magic Hat–Fat Angel, Blind Faith, and #9 are among my favorites. It would be awesome if we could carry Magic Hat somewhere in MN.

What’s great about MN liquor stores, though, is the presence of a German import that I can’t find out East: Hacker Pschorr. It’s my favorite import and I don’t know why it’s so hard to find between Boston and DC.

I have heard a few PA folks rave about Yuengling (ying ling). Anyone ever tried it?

I’ve had it a few times in Philly. One of my faves.

Yuengling is good, but nothing to write home about. It’s like a bit richer Leinie’s.

Summit is a default brew for me. It never fails. I was looking for some of the good old canadian skunk piss this weekend. What ever happened to Molson Export Ale?

excited about fat tire. i’ve brought home caseloads from montana on previous occassions…

funny, i’d never thought of summit as extremely hoppy. sure, it’s got bite, but i’m not a big fan of super hoppy beers (anyone ever notice that hippies love hoppy beer?) like hop devil or even some IPAs. i think summit has a creamy finish that takes the edge off for me.

jerad, the funny thing is that on my last trip to the liquor store, i bought a twelver of PBR and a sixer of Summit EPA… and james page is no longer technically local, they’re produced by point brewery in stevens point, wi now, i think.

as for bars that have lots of mn/wi beers on tap, there’s plenty. the new happy gnome has a huge tap beer selection, the groveland tap usually has four or five summits on tap and 3 or 4 leinie’s…

James Page is contract-brewed by Schell’s last time I checked. Schell’s also owns Grain Belt.

I like Yuengling. The Yuengling Porter is really good.

nope, james page is indeed made in stevens point.

premium…. now there’s a beer. though i think i might have actually burned myself out on it.

Surly’s Brewer is the same Brewer who had been brewing at Rock Bottom in MPLS for over 10 years. I am really looking forward to trying our his beverages now that he has been cut loose from the corporate chains and recipe restrictions.

Yuengling is a GREAT lager when looking for something safe and local when you are away from home. I always try to bring home a case when I am out East. I also really like the Genesse Cream Ale which is smooth and refreshing. Ya just can’t find a good Cream Ale locally anymore. Or can you . . anyone . . anyone!

Flash
Centrisity.com

Surly Furious, a highly hoppy amber ale, is at Acadia Cafe’ and Cafe’ 28…Bender Beer, their oatmeal brown ale is at 28, Solera, and the Blue Nile (where I manage the bar)…other accounts will come fast and furious. My more lengthy comments can be found at beeradvocate.com.
This is pretty exciting, that we finally have a Twin Cities microbrewery that is delivering uncompromising, adventurous ales that break away from the mundane. Get Surly!

“There are so many good locally brewed beers here in this state, you could start a bar that only serves Minnesotan and have 8-10 things on tap.”

Summit has 4 regular beers, seasonals, and the occasional draft-only (Oatmeal Stout, and Amber), Lake Superior has about 5 beers, though not all are readily available in kegs, Schell’s has 5 regular, plus seasonals, then there’s Grain Belt, Premium Light, Finnegan’s, …Gluek, if you have to count them…St. Croix Serrano Pepper and Maple Ales…and now Surly…so you can do more than 10 taps, if you wants, but …But….

MN is so way behind the beer scene.

Colorado has 24 breweries, and 65 brewpubs(!)
Washington, 34/61
New York, 30, 31.
Massachusetts, 18/ 19.
Oregon 17, with 70 brewpubs!
California…72 and 139!!!

and that’s breweries, not beers…add up all the beers made in California, your head will spin.

MN has only 8 breweries, and 16 brewpubs (all info from beeradvocate.com), which puts us ahead of Alabama, Arkansas, Iowa, Kentucky, West Virginia, North Dakota (which has zero breweries!), places like that…but there’s a huge world of beer, right here in the U.S. that the public knows little of…so, let’s support our locals so the beer community here can grow, and we claim more than just Summit and Grain Belt. (Oy!)

Strike St. Croix beers from that list on Minnesota beers. They’re now made–and quite poorly–in Wisconsin, if they’re still made at all. They taste nothing like the originals since the company changed hands a few years ago.

Anyone else think it’s not coincidence that “Surly” starts with “Su”–like “Summit?”

Interesting discussion! I grew up in the Twin Cities but learned to love the brew in Colorado while in college, and now I live in Seattle. I’ve been wondering if the Minnesota microbrewery scene was as behind as it looks on paper, and judging from the previous comments, I’d say it was.

Here in Seattle, I can walk from my house to three brewpubs, with another three+ microbreweries within biking distance. At any given local pub (granted this is Seattle’s equivalent of Dinkytown), there’ll be half a dozen local micros on tap, running the gamut from pilsners and pale ales to IPAs and ambers to stouts and imperials. And the next pub will have another half dozen, but they’ll all be different. Probably 15 microbreweries in the greater Seattle area. And it’s the same in Portland, Denver, San Francisco, etc.

I’ve thought about moving back to Minnesota at some point, but I cringe at losing the ability to explore a new local beer every time I go out to a bar. Or to be able to buy them in 6-packs at the corner store. But if Surly is part of a trend, maybe I’ll just have to wait a few more years…

I’ve become a homebrewer within the past year, as well. The homebrew scene seems more vigorous in MN than the microbrew scene, which seems strange to me. Seattle and the Twin Cities have about the same number of homebrew supply shops, I think. Maybe the West is under-saturated with homebrewers given the glut of fine micros? I tend to think they complement each other — I appreciate good-tasting beer way more now than I did before I brewed.

Actually, come to think of it, that’s probably true. Or it seems true. Just mentally comparing us to places like Madison and Portland and Philly and Seattle… it seems like we have far few microbrews per capita. I could be completely wrong about that, but it sounds accurate. Maybe one of the MNbeer-ists could give their comparison thoughts.

MNBeer-ist here… something like that. Al’s got those numbers right and if you dig around on the Beer Advocate site (http://beeradvocate.com/beerfly/), you’ll find that the Twin Cities has Madison and Philadelphia beat out by a small margin, but we’d need some work to catch up with Portland and Seattle. I’d like to see more, and I think Surly’s efforts are a step in the right direction. We’ve also got some great bars that have adventurous beer selections (Blue Nile, Muddy Pig, Happy Gnome, Acadia Cafe, Bryant Lake Bowl, etc.) and a rocking homebrew scene with two of the most well-regarded homebrew shops in the nation right in our backyard. We have the second-oldest continuously run brewery in our state (Schell’s) and some award-winning and adventurous brewpubs. So things are good here, we just need more.

So support your local breweries, brewpubs and bars. Drink local… dump out your Pabst and pick up a Premium or a Gluek… pour out that Miller Lite and pick up some Schell’s light… get your hop fix with Summit EPA or Surly’s Furious, argue over which Hoops brother makes a better IPA with growler’s from Town Hall and Fitger’s… etc. etc.

Just to address a couple of comments… Surly’s limited release is most likely due to the fact that they’re brand new. Summit wasn’t magically in every bar in 1986. It’s a small operation and it’ll take them some time. Support them, and ask for their beers, and they’ll start popping up around town.

If you like Belgian and trappist beers and don’t dig the hop kick of Summit EPA, you probably won’t like Furious as it’s even hoppier. Bender is more sparingly-hopped, brown/porter, you might like that one better. If you like the kick in the teeth that a good, hoppy beer gives you, you’ll probably like it.

I don’t think there’s any coincidence that Surly and Summit both begin with “Su”. If they wanted to ride on Summit’s coattails, there are certainly better ways of going about it. That or they’re both trying to rip off Schmidt’s, since both breweries begin with an “S”.

Cheers!

Stopped at the Half Time Rec in St. Paul for a Pint of Furious. Most Yummy. Pretty clean finish consideirng its hopiness. I’m not ususally big on the overly hoppy stuff, but I would sure have another one of these.

Now I need a Bender

Flash

Is Sconnie still being distributed here? I don’t see it much on tap anymore.

Don’t really care for it that much, but I went to school with one of the partners, so I was wondering

I like hops. Quite a bit. But I do not like grapefruit, at least when I’m trying to enjoy a beer. According to the website, both these beers are chock-full of American hops. Of course, when American brewers are talking, “hoppy” means that there’s a 99% chance that Cascade hops have been (over)used. I’ll never understand why brewers in this country go to the trouble of importing European malts only to kill the flavor by loading their brews up with citrusy (again, usually Cascade) hops.

So. Are both of these beers full of Cascades, or did the fellas at Surly actually get creative and use some other varieties of American hops? (Yeah, yeah, probably Centennial- more grapefruity goodness- right?)

I’m planning to try these beers, and I’ll probably even like them, but I’ll never love an overly-citrusy beer.

neither Surly is full of Cascades, …they both use a blend of hops, not all of which are typical, or overused…but Furious does have a big citrus taste.

you shouldn’t have any trouble with Bender, though…

rest assured, though, these guys know what they’re doing, and will not be brewing down the same old beaten path as anyone else.

btw, a bourbon-barrel aged version of Bender is already in the works!

also btw…for those who love the hops, Furious is about 100 IBUs…who said Summit was extreme?

“”Stopped at the Half Time Rec in St. Paul for a Pint of Furious. Most Yummy. Pretty clean finish consideirng its hopiness. I’m not ususally big on the overly hoppy stuff, but I would sure have another one of these.

Now I need a Bender”"

After reviewing the Surly site again, it looks like it WAS a Bender I had. That explains why I wasn’t kicked off my stool with a powerful Hops kick. Considering this, the Furious would probably be too much for this Dark Brown ale kind of guy!

Flash