Secrets of the City

Do you remember this Honda Accord commercial from a couple years ago? Did you know that’s Garrison Keillor’s voice at the end of it?

Hey, just asking because I’m curious and it’s been on my mind (don’t know why). But would people in Mpls like it if there were more Latin night clubs added in town besides Nuevo Rodeo/Babalu and the the other clubs that offer Latin dance nights? I’m just asking b/c I think it would be great if there were more Latin nightclubs/music venues in town that catered to Latin music everynight. If not a nightclub, but a spanish music venue were live acts could come to play almost everynight. We don’t seem to have much around here.

OK, here’s a topic: I work at a local media outlet, and yesterday we put out an item about the two cops who were stabbed at Lyndale and Franklin and then shot their assailant to death. We referred to the area as “South Minneapolis.” We heard from an irate resident of the area who informed us: Lyndale and Franklin is NOT South Minneapolis, it’s the Wedge. This is important, he said, because South Minneapolis has “a bad connotation.” (This seems a bit counter-intuitive to me, since the stabbing/shooting would imply that the Wedge has its own problems.) So does “South Minneapolis” have a bad connotation? And where is it, exactly?

I’ve always thought of it as south Mpls, with the Wedge being a smaller segment therein. I think people thinking there may be a bad connotation with south Minneapolis I would imagine they’re referring to areas more to the east and south…the Phillips neighborhood perhaps. But again, I would refer to Phillips as a smaller segment of south Mpls…just like the Wedge. Either way, this guy needs to accept the fact that he lives in south Mpls (not that there’s anything wrong with that).

Regarding the Latin nightclub query, what became of the plan for David Fhima to open a tapas bar and Latin nighclub in the Stimson Building at Hennepin and 7th?

RE: Neighborhoods. This is interesting. When I wrote about the same item, I called it “Uptown.” Yet I’ve been known to correct people who say they live around there — “No, you live in the Wedge.” And sometimes when someone says that I live in Uptown, I’ll correct them and say “Kenwood,” but I’m also on the border with Lowry Hill. Also, if you try to write a check at the Lowry Hill Liquor Store, they’ll tell you that you must live in “South Minneapolis,” which seems to encompass all of the above.

I believe the Wedge is in south Minneapolis. But I dont believe the Wedge is technically Uptown. The Minneapolis Uptown Association defines Uptown as Lake Calhoun to the West, Dupont Street to the east, 31st Street to the south and 28th Street to the north, with Lake and Hennepin as the anchor. Thats a small area though. I once lived at 27th and Hennepin. If I didnt live in Uptown, where did I live?

After biking past the media/police circus at the intersection as I biked to work yesterday morning, I went straight to kare11.com and they actually referred to it as “north Minneapolis” when they first ran the story. But that’s just plain wrong, and they corrected it right away. Maybe we should just refer to it as “north south Minneapolis.”

I always say I live in Longfellow. Technically, I’m in Cooper, but everyone says Longfellow. Technically, everyone in Seward is also in Longfellow. They never seem to say they’re in Longfellow though, they say they’re in Seward. I don’t know anyone in my neighborhood that says we’re in South Minneapolis, although technically I guess we are. Minneapolis has some decent mapsbut they don’t define what “South Minneapolis” is. I tend to think of “South Minneapolis” as around the Phillips and Powderhorn neighborhoods for some reason. I don’t consider Uptown part of “South Minneapolis.” I’m willing to be corrected.

As for Wedge: Minneapolis, at least according to the map I looked at, doesn’t seem to recognize it as a neighborhood. Isn’t it the same as Lowry Hill East? And why are people from there insistent on making sure they’re labeled Wedge residents? This isn’t the first time I’ve heard of a story like that.

Mac-Groveland rulz, bitches!!!!!

(Uhm, sorry, I wasn’t seeing any St. Paul love)

More reasons not to trust the government! The map (pdf file) doesn’t even recognize Uptown as a neighborhood. According to this, if you break down some businesses around Hennepin/Lyndale and Lake, you get this: Calhoun Square is in “Lower Hill East,” The Uptown Theater is in “East Isles,” Chino Latino is in “Ecco,” and Urban Outfitters is in “Carag,” The Jungle Theater is in “Whittier,” and La Bodega is in “Lyndale.”

Look at the directions on the street signs. South Minneapolis is anywhere where the avenues say “S,” which is more than half the city south of Glenwood and downtown. In north Minneapolis it’s “N,” and in Northeast and Southeast it’s “NE” and “SE” (they’re roughly separated by Central and Broadway). The only exception is downtown, which is just downtown.

Everybody should learn what neighborhood they’re in; there are like 82 of ‘em. Rex lives in Lowry Hill, not Kenwood. “The Wedge” is the nickname of Lowry Hill East, but the Wedge grocery store is actually in Whittier, which is lost on most residents of both neighborhoods.

Uptown is not a real neighborhood but an imaginary region centered on Lake & Hennepin & Lagoon. I would extend the boundaries of Uptown from 28th to 32nd and from about Dupont to Knox (Lake Calhoun). But when some people say Uptown, they mean what I call “Greater Uptown,” which is the whole area from downtown to Lake Harriet where all of the musicians lived before the great decentralization of the ’90s.

No way, man. The Uptown Bar is not in “Ecco” and the Uptown Theater is not in “East Isles.” This is like the French refusing to use the word “computer” because it’s too English. I demand reform!

Uptown is not a real neighborhood but an imaginary region…

Couldn’t have said it better myself!

Carag???!!!

Uptown is not a real neighborhood but an imaginary region…
I think we have another t-shirt idea.

Uptown is a state of mind.

Also:

C.alhoun
A.rea
R.esident
A.ction
G.roup

Now there’s a neighborhood name for ya.

Wow, it’s true.

Midtown is the new Uptown.

Wait, where’s Midtown?

East Lake and Hiawatha. See Midtown Public Market, Manny’s Tortas, Nuevo Rodeo, YWCA, etc.

I live in “Cedar-Isles-Dean” (that part that’s a little poorer than Kenwood, not directly on a lake, and bordering St. Louis Park). But I think that’s a lame neighborhood name, so I usually say I live “just west of Uptown.”

I, too, have wondered what the hell constitutes “South Minneapolis,” though I don’t know enough to tell you if I’m in Phillips or Powderhorn Park or Longfellow or wherever when I’m out driving around.

I’m seriously confused. And none of this is really helping.

I read most of a book at the downtown Barnes & Noble on Sunday about the history of Uptown. It was fascinating.

Here it is.

It does discuss the neighboring neighborhoods and why Uptown is called Uptown (to glorify Chicago’s Uptown, which I’d never heard of either). It also defines Uptown as those crazy late 19th century folks did. The Uptown theatre was named the Uptown theatre in a deliberate effort to get the city’s inhabitants to call the Lake/Hennpin area, all the way west to Lake Calhoun, Uptown.

So I say screw that PDF from the city’s website.

Also, ECCO:

E.ast
C.alhoun
C.ommunity
O.rganization

I use the same street sign method Simon mentions to delineate South from North Minneapolis. Why doesn’t anyone ever say they are from “West” or “East” Minneapolis?

I lived in Longfellow for awhile (the real Longfellow – 3200 block of 34th Ave S), and now live in the Standish neighborhood. When anyone asks me where I live, I say “South Minneapolis” and if they need something more specific, I say “Southeast Minneapolis.”

Now that I live within 2 blocks of the 38th St. LRT station, I use that as a landmark.

“Look at the directions on the street signs. South Minneapolis is anywhere where the avenues say “S,”…The only exception is downtown, which is just downtown.”

I work downtown and our address is Marquette Ave South, but I don’t think there is any North on Marquette – It brings up another issue. Living on 3rd Ave S and Franklin (Ave – an intersection of avenues?), people tell me I live downtown all the time, but I crossed over a freeway to get home, so I live in Stevens.

When the media refer to “South Minneapolis” they are referring to the city, or in this case portion of the city, as it would be defined by others. Just like how you would say “Roseville” or “Bloomington” or “Red Lake Indian Reservation,” you wouldn’t break these areas into individual neighborhoods. Unless you were only communicating to Minneapolis residents, would you get neighborhood-specific.

So it depends on the audience. For TV viewers, this incident occured in South Minneapolis.

Why not east/west? Look at the map. Because the city isn’t laying on it’s side, like St. Paul, lol.

Hi, I believe I am the guy who wrote the email to “anon” who works at a local media outlet whose post started this whole thing. Here are my thoughts.

I live at 26th and Hennepin in Mpls. I have always thought of that area as Uptown. I know, technically Uptown is the immediate area around Lake/Hennepin (Calhoun Square, Lagoon, etc). But no you can’t tell me with a straight face that Hennepin Aveneue from around 36th all the way up to Franklin isn’t Uptown. I hesitate to consider Lyndale Ave part of Uptown, because the vibe is so different between Lyndale and Hennepin.

Yet, as many point out, officially I live in the Lowry Hill East neighborhood. If I lived across the street, I’d be in East Isles. How stupid is this? I didn’t even know there was a Lowry Hill until someone told me and I am most definitely not east of it. And there is certainly a big difference between the housing as you head west from Hennepin down to Lake of the Isles.

Who drew up these maps anyway? Who goes around saying, “Yeah, I live over in the CARAG part of Minneapolis.” I’ve been in Minneapolis for the better part of two years and I am amazed at how much power these neighborhoods have, but in my opinion it is time the city seriously consider redrawing them to fit public perception. Everyone knows Uptown is much larger than a few square blocks (this garbage about it being an idea, not a place is painfully stupid).

Regarding the reason I was so upset about the area where the crime took place, which I think most locals call the Wedge, being called south Minneapolis is that “south Minneapolis” does carry a negative perception, one that I don’t think fits the Wedge or Uptown. People think of south Minneapolis as a crime ridden, drug haven where murders take place. Now to be honest, I think the whole idea of south Minneapolis is a bad term because there are lots of areas in geographical south Minneapolis that are very, very nice.

The point I was trying to make to anon’s media outlet (which I won’t name) was that maybe it should be a little more clear about exactly where these events take place.

People think of south Minneapolis as a crime ridden, drug haven where murders take place.

Do people really think this? If so, where do they live? I wager it’s nowhere near south Minneapolis and any distinction between neighborhoods within would be lost on them anyway. Also, how could the city possibly rename areas to adhere to some sort of public perception? This would be impossible to define and remain a moving target at best.

To Clarify, there are Communities made up of smaller Neighborhoods, as the map by Rex illustrates. Such as someone that lives in King Field Neighborhood in the Southwest Community. It gets confusing when sometimes when the community and neighborhood have the same names: I live in the Longfellow Neighborhood of Longfellow Community. And, yeah, as already discussed, then we have our nicknamed areas –Uptown and Wedge, ect.

Which brings me to Kevin’s point: you are right that the term “South Minneapolis” in media is used for a very specific purpose — it automatically brings a connotation to the viewers/readers mind to help “sell” the story. Kevin seems to be upset that Uptown was associated with this, but it seems to make more sense to be upset that we are being manipulated in the first place — as already demonstrated “South Minneapolis” is a pretty large, undefined place, and to use it to associate it with crime to manipulate is a load of crap . . . As a side note, if you take a look at Minneapolis crime maps (available through the city web) you’ll see that “Uptown” is a pretty hot spot for crime.

People think of south Minneapolis as a crime ridden, drug haven where murders take place.

I think of North Minneapolis this way, not South.

I’d have to agree- I always thought of North Minneapolis as the frightening, don’t even walk around in the daytime lest you be shot or mugged, area…I’d never heard South Minneapolis was considered a hot crime spot. So, what we learn is all of Minneapolis is a crime ridden, drug haven?

What is ‘Frogtown’?

When I moved to Mpls in early 2004, everyone I know who lives outside the city told me to avoid south Minneapolis at all costs. Even people who don’t live in the cities ask me if I ever go on Lake Street or tell me how they got lost once in south Minneapolis and were scared ****less. I think south Minneapolis has a very negative perception.

key words being lives outside the city . They know as much about South Minneapolis as I know about, say, Maple Grove — I think its full of snobby xenophobic people. I live a block off Lake Street; I have awesome neighbors, many older that have lived there for 30 years — a couple days ago I was talking to my alley neighbor who has lived in the same house for 36 years and he told me his kids are constantly trying to get him to move to Lakeville, because it is such a “better” place than “bad” Minneapolis, but he will have none of it, he loves where he lives.

Which got me thinking about why some people live in the urban environment and some absolutely shun it — and it seems to me to be about being tolerant of other people. Maybe I’m wrong, but it seems to me that many folks head for the suburban hills, shut themselves in, turn on the tube to get their entertainment of what happened in big-bad south minneapolis for the day. People living outside the city have absolutely no context for what happens in the city, other than what they see on their if-it-bleeds-it-leads news shows. The next time someone says “Oh, South Minneapolis is sooo bad” I encourage you to ask a) what part of South Minneapolis and b) what information is that based on — what was your last experience in “South” Minneapolis?

Phil, Frogtown is the area West of downtown St. Paul, around University/Dale and beyond.

A visiting couple with grandchild in stroller, stopped at our yard sale last week and commented how they love the area (SE Powderhorn Neighborhood) as it always feels so “downhome.” I wasn’t sure what to make of the comment. The tone almost sounded like she was going to say “quaint.” The discussion had been partly about the neighborliness of the area, and how everyone talks to everyone and knows there neighbors.
I still think of myself as new here but its been at least 13 years in this neighborhood… I love the changes that have happened on Lake Street and am trying to start using the “Midtown” term more, as its exciting to be near it. I take visitors there when they come to town.

Traditionally Minneapolis is divided in 4 qudrants. If you want to know what quadrant you are in look at the street signs. If the street suffix is S you are in South Mpls. N in North, SE in South East and NE in North East. The Eastern Quadrants are East of the River and the North South Divide is At Hennepin Ave downtown Since Hennepin turns the divide in Brenmar is Cedar Lake Rd I think.