Secrets of the City

they would lower taxes, improve the schools, spur business development and growth, and get serious about crime.

And we’d have flying cars, too, dammit!

Seriously, this just sounds like a cranky Maz rant. You can’t lower taxes and improve schools. Nobody’s “not serious” about crime, which of course has been declining for years. And most importantly, Minneapolis has historically and currently has a vastly different economy than the other cities mentioned. We’ve never had steel mills, and now we have an enormous creative class. I don’t know that that post could have been any more uninformed.

what is one suppose to think?

That maybe we don’t make judgments or set preferances based on race. If we are supposed to, please let us know. It’s hard to keep up.

I’m willing to listen to logical explanations of why blacks are seemingly being ignored by the GOP.

And to be clear, I do NOT believe the GOP is racist. I think some members may be, just as some deomcrats are, but I do think the GOP is really short sighted. This country is well on its way to being a majority minority, but the GOP is not adapting.

Funny political headline of the day, from the Christian Science Monitor, of all places.

Ha. What up homes? See, we “get” black people.

You can’t lower taxes and improve schools.

Why not? Does that mean we have to raise them? I don’t think you want that, unless you’ve always yearned to be in the 7+ percent tax bracket.

I’m not a semiotics guy, but the way the GOP has used things like Reagan’s MS speeches, willy horton, and the ‘he’s a islam’ fear mongering may not be racist but it certainly is insensitive and will not draw people fearful of mistreatment to the party.

I’m willing to listen to logical explanations of why blacks are seemingly being ignored by the GOP.

Perhaps blacks are ignoring the GOP?

Perhaps blacks are ignoring the GOP?

They’re pretty hard to ignore with all their whining.

A surprise as Obama’s VP Watch continues. It could be Edwards!

No, not that Edwards. This one.

baker-
this stemmed from this comment I made earlier, which shows blacks are not ignoring the GOP.

http://tinyurl.com/5m6qmt ” target=”_blank”>This plus this makes me wonder what the hell the GOP really believes in.

re: both candidate’s VP picks — Somebody get these reporters some oxygen! And a towel.

Re: “MN Campaign Report: Madia sucked less”

Your attempts at sarcasm suck more, Rich.

Tru dat, kevs. For lack of anything else to report pre-convention, they have worked themselves into a frenzy over the VP pick thing. History shows it will have little effect on the election results.

I think they just like frenzies.

I mean look at the PP webiste right now.

The ratings were so high during the primaries, they are duty bound to attempt to continue that streak. So you get frenzy followed by swoon to the next frenzy.

Good links KC, thanks. It does seem a bit like MN blacks are getting dissed by the RNC.

I agree with Kevin on his response to the You can’t lower taxes and improve schools bullocks.

I bet I differ though when it comes to the particulars. The first step is to go after the teachers’ unions. I am not saying we have to dissolve them, but there has to be a mechanism in place where bad teachers can be sacked and good teachers get compensated handsomely for their efforts.

Abolish tenured staff and get rid of these complacent, bitter old teachers who do not add to students’ educations. I think we need a system where high schools are set up based on career tracks. Say you want to be a lawyer, you get started on the lawyer track at 16 and then choose a college that can continue that track. I believe they do similar things to this in Europe.

As it stands, people get through high school taking a whole bunch of classes they’ll never remember and then get into college/university and have to take the same classes over again, this time for no credit. Then maybe they are unsure of what they want to be when they growup so they switch majors a bunch of times and end up in college as long as Tommy Boy.

I wanted to be a lawyer in high school. And I wanted to be an enviromental scientist. And I wanted to be a writer. Which track should I have chosen?

I was lucky enough to go to a college that let me try out all those tracks and more. I settled on wanting to be a union organizer and political activist, after I realized I’d never be a history professor.

Now I’m a business analyst and project manager. Luckily my liberal arts education prepared me for this by making me take classes in politics, statistics, and writing.

I hate the idea of forcing 15 and 16 year olds into making life decsions.

but there has to be a mechanism in place where bad teachers can be sacked and good teachers get compensated handsomely for their efforts.

And how exactly do you measure that? Move a teacher from an AP or IB class in Wayzata or Edina into an “average” inner city classroom, and I guarantee, he or she will not get the same results she was getting.

A big problem with career track programs is that minority students, even the best, regularly get shunted into lower skilled programs. Another, is that at 16, few people really know what they want to do. And many of those that do, often find that by the time they reach college, that their interests or skills are better suited for something else. High school shouldn’t be a vo-tech or professional prep, and we shouldn’t be pushing kid to make a lifetime determining career decision at that age.

I bet I differ though when it comes to the particulars. The first step is to go after the teachers’ unions.

So what you’re saying is that you want to be my wife?

Our whole educational system is philosophically so far removed from that of other countries, that we cannot make fair comparisons. The overriding value of American education has been egalitarianism for the past century. We educate everybody, and we are doing a better and better job of keeping kids in school. The downside is that the bottom dwelling students bring down the averages and overall education suffers but upward mobility is still sort of there for the very motivated.

Other countries like Japan, Germany etc. do a great job of weeding out undesirables. In my experience working in Japan the disruptive students were hounded out of the schools and were not legally mandated to go to school after age 13. You can see them hanging around Circle K’s late at night with dye jobs and wearing the weird construction worker pants.
In Germany the schools keep the kids down through tests. They decide your fate at a very young age and you then get shunted off to a prep school or a vocational school. Guess whose kids get sent more often to vo-tech?

KC, I say all of this as someone who has, since graduating from college in 2004, been a newspaper reporter, photographer, and editor, an English teacher abroad, and a technical editor/techie dude in an engineering/architectural firm who is also an aspiring social studies teacher, Asian/Pacific anthropologist and bankruptcy lawyer.

In other words, I think people like me (generalists and those interested in everything) could benefit from from some focus.

Also want to add that some teachers and their methods will connect really well with one cohort of students then completely strike out with the next group only to catch on again in succeeding years. The complexity of it all is mind boggling. If this were so easy we would have solved it by now.

Teacher’s unions provide the necessary tension in the system. They should always be in conflict with the administration. Both should be forcing each other to be better. I don’t always see this though.

Kevin,

I can be your man-wife, but I am not sure if your caucus would dig it.

I think his caucus can make up its own mind.

Oh, I thought you were a chick. Nevermind then.

no fat chicks.

Please no “no fat chicks” jokes, lunch.

Right. No dudes and no fat chicks.

He’s the fat hater, or fat-taxer or whatever…

I think people like me (generalists and those interested in everything) could benefit from from some focus.

Why? Most jobs need well rounded people, not single minded specialists.

I think of Benjamin Franklin when I think well rounded and people who like everything. Per wikipedia:

Franklin was a leading author and printer, satirist, political theorist, politician, scientist, inventor, civic activist, statesman and diplomat. As a scientist he was a major figure in the Enlightenment and the history of physics for his discoveries and theories regarding electricity. He invented the lightning rod, bifocals, the Franklin stove, a carriage odometer, and a musical instrument. He formed both the first public lending library in America and first fire department in Pennsylvania.

Oh now yer just slinging mud.

Really, if I didn’t have 2 years in the middle of college to do internships, who knows what I’d be doing now. I went through at least 4 different career paths before my current job.

KC is right. So is Mr. Acalhoun. So is Bixby. Koombuyf*ckingya.

Wait, I was wasn’t really making a point. What am I right about? Me so confused.

I sort of like the idea of forcing 15 or 16 year olds to decide what to do with their lives. I didn’t think about anything until I was 21 or so; I could have used several swift kicks around age 14 to get me to think about what I my interests and strengths were, intellectually and otherwise.

Really, if I didn’t have 2 years in the middle of college to do internships, who knows what I’d be doing now.

A baller?

Shot caller?

Why not?

There obviously are all sorts of problems with education that aren’t worth getting into in this thread, some of which could be changed without costing more. But why do people think we can get something for nothing? In every other aspect of life, you more or less get what you pay for. If you want the Mercedes-Benz of education, you’re not going to get it for the price of a Corolla, and for the life of me I can’t figure out why people think there’s some special exception for education.

We “invest” in businesses, but we can’t “throw money” at education. We pay for a troop surge to try to do better in Iraq, but we won’t pay for a teacher surge to try to do better in education. Money is manpower. Money is materials. Money is facilities. Money is more people teaching, more qualified people teaching. Money is hiring those experts to figure out HOW to fix the system. If you’re not going to throw money at it, what the hell else are you going to throw at it? A few platitudes and stupid schemes? You want to fix it, you invest in it. There aren’t any shortcuts. Even the cheapest, most selfish among us should be able to see that there’s no possible better investment.

Lame.

Now this, this was funny.

Ha. What up homes? See, we “get” black people.

jeff already said everything I wanted to in that first post.

This plus this makes me wonder what the hell the GOP really believes in.

Or, the State of Minnesota has simply afforded a luxury that the RNC isn’t willing to recognise.

To provide an example of what Jeff is saying…

Take an urban school district like Saint Paul. A lot of their buildings are 40+ years old and haven’t been refurbished in any meaningful way in 20 years. Because there’s no money, some buildings have no A/C, heat that doesn’t always work, strange noises, odd smells, distractions, crappy lighting — things that, in an office setting, would be addressed in order to ensure productivity of the workers. And we expect kids to learn in those settings.

I apologize for tricking you, Kevin. To be fair, there aren’t a whole lot of chicks named “Aaron.”

I think education should be funded hardcore, but I also believe we need to put that money to work. As it stands, a lot of the schools in Mpls are socialization camps that offer little guidance for life to the students. Mpls is a fucking awesome city with a lot going for it, but if we can’t even get our kids who graduate and succeed in life, then no amount of lakes, bike lanes, and cultural diversity is going to help us become anything but a hypocrite municipality.

Letting a bunch of minority kids fall through the cracks is a violation of human rights and betrays the liberal values for which Minneapolis stands.

Good point, Rich. If the printer at work stops printing, we have a whole regiment on the case – IT, outside serviceman, etc. They need this sort of attention in the schools.

But it also comes down to parents. My wife used to work in truancy in a suburban school district that saw a lot of kids taking multiple buses from Minneapolis and neighboring burbs to get to her school district. These kids, some as young as 10, would have to get up on their own and even wake their parents up, take two city buses and a school bus, all before they even set foot at school. They were dead tired and with little food in their bellies. They were not prepared. At that point, I will admit, there is little schools can do when the parents are subjugated socioeconomically or just plain irresponsible

Boarding schools are the answer. If the home life is fraught with gawd awfulness build some public boarding schools. People writing about the schools though always seem to forget that we are doing better for the vast majority than we ever did before.

My husband’s school in DT St. Paul has fielded a number of requests from RNC folks wanting to visit. I would be curious to see what they think of the setting some of these kids deal with in their school.

My husband’s school in DT St. Paul has fielded a number of requests from RNC folks wanting to visit

goddamned pederasts.

But it also comes down to parents.

A-fucking-men. I worked in PR for Saint Paul Schools for a year, and I can’t count the number of times you’d go to school board meetings and hear parents complaining about how underserved their kids are, and why aren’t the schools doing more for them. But when the schools are the de facto source of nutrition for kids, and parents aren’t making students do homework, or teaching them how to behave, the schools are set up to fail. Accountability needs to occur at all levels.

But for those NCLB nuts out there — let’s not get into the punitive accountability question. Stripping poorly performing schools of resources was one of the most profoundly ridiculous ideas of all time. Sort of like taxing folks who earn more than 250k at a lower rate than those who earn 60k.

Just sayin’.

My husband’s school in DT St. Paul has fielded a number of requests from RNC folks wanting to visit. I would be curious to see what they think of the setting some of these kids deal with in their school.

Make sure that 4th grader is wearing his “If you’re rich, I’m available” t-shirt!

The problem with trying to discuss educational policy is that it comes down to a lot of things, and a lot of people try to pin the problems on one thing. It’s not possible. It’s everything, and trying to figure out the best way to fix it takes effort, and TIME, and a lot of schools and students just don’t have enough time to try to get it right – especially under NCLB rules.

The problem with trying to discuss educational policy is that it comes down to a lot of things, and a lot of people try to pin the problems on one thing.

Ethanol?

(just trying to lighten the mood, folks)

Shit Bob. I thought you already knew that ethanol is to blame for every one of the 4 horsemen, plus the stupidity of our nation’s youth.

Yes, ethanol! Those damn kids keep inhaling it! Didn’t their parents teach them ANYTHING?

We agree on the final point, rich.

Heh! Kids today….

For my 50th birthday, I’m going to invite some neighborhood kids to stand on my lawn, and then yell at them.

Racism?

Wait, no, that could be true so that cannot be the correct answer.

Boarding schools – nada. They key is get parents more involved. If that means parenting licences, then so be it!

Boarding schools work for the rich, so why not for the poor?

They do have boarding schools for the poor exclusively AND they have programs that put disadvantaged kids in boarding and prep schools.

If that means parenting licences, then so be it!

Please tell me you forgot to attach the sarcasm tag.

I think there should be boarding schools for families.

/I can’t figure out if I’m kidding.

Yeah, I did a pg year at a prep school, and really benefited. I felt much better prepared knowing what kind of d-bags I would encounter at the elite liberal arts college I attended. My friends from my primary high school were completely blindsided.

I think there should be boarding schools for families.
I’d settle for subsidized day care, all day pre-school and visiting nurses.

I went to prep school for 13 years and I was still blindsided by the dixinabox I encountered at the liberal arts college I attended.

Of course, mb21. Sarcasm.

When I covered school boards, I would see, as another person posting here saw, parents essentially asking why the schools weren’t raising their kids.

When I was in school, if I was misbehaving or got bad grades, my parents would ask me why I was messing around in school or why I was picking on my teachers. They didn’t expect the school to be surrogate parents. So I had two sets of authority groups making sure I did my school work and behaved – my parents and the teachers/school officials. There are a lot of kids now who don’t have those kind of checks and balances. This is largely because of the kind of jobs their parents can get, but it also has to do with accountability.

Yes, but your prep school was midwestern, so you only had experience with the local sub-species.

The reason private schools historically do better than public schools is selectivity. (Boarding schools included.) If you are a problem, you are out. If you don’t learn the material you are out. Public schools for the most part are the last resort for the students that get kicked out of the private schools. Further, they have fewer alternatives in public schools to remove disruptive students.

I’m going to contend that parental involvement is the root of the success of private schools. Which, of course, links to the mastering the material.

Yes, but your prep school was midwestern, so you only had experience with the local sub-species.

And they were precious. Every time I run into them at Brits, I still want to tussle their hair and pinch their cheeks.
And then I wonder why I’m in Brits.

Absolutely agree Douglas. That’s why international comparisons like Japan, Germany and Singapore are such bad comparisons to make with a system based on egalitarianism. The boarding school idea would be an effective means to counter a bad home life or simply embarrassing middle class parents. The cafeteria, evening study halls and mandatory sports would make the kids disciplined and healthy. The remaining balance for success or failure would be upon the students and teachers.

Every time I run into someone from my prep school I consider rolling them… New England prep school kids pheremonally scream for a beat down. It is so strange.

The reason private schools historically do better than public schools is selectivity. (Boarding schools included.) If you are a problem, you are out.

And the definition of “problem” is pretty broad. A few years ago, one of the west metro private schools (Holy Angels?) had admitted twin brothers. One was an athlete. After the school found out the other brother was in a wheel chair, they rescinded his admission, while begging the athlete to still attend.

Are you sure they actually rescinded his admission? I find that hard to believe. I can see the school strongly advising the student not to come because they were not wheelchair accessible and it would have been difficult for him to get around.

I think there should be boarding schools for families.
I’d settle for subsidized day care, all day pre-school and visiting nurses.

But then why would we even need families. Oh yeah, Christmas presents!

Every time I run into someone from my prep school I consider rolling them… New England prep school kids pheremonally scream for a beat down. It is so strange.

I did a project at my college where I interviewed students about things and there was a student who went to a new england boarding school who said that the students at his school were nicer than the students at our college.
Exactly.

But then why would we even need families. Oh yeah, Christmas presents!

Additional people to blame for your shortcomings?

Are you sure they actually rescinded his admission? I find that hard to believe. I can see the school strongly advising the student not to come because they were not wheelchair accessible and it would have been difficult for him to get around.

Pretty sure. They did have an elevator, they apparently just didn’t want to allow a student to use it.

How did that not end up a lawsuit? I just can’t see a school doing that, it’s a legal/PR nightmare.

Not sure. Seems like it would be ripe for a lawsuit, but private schools do have a lot of leeway. It’s also possible they came to some kind of settlement.

At De, we’d just throw the cripples in a basement cellar. The unfed, junkyard dog was a good college-prep teacher.

Honestly, I think some people just aren’t meant to go to regular schools. I think those that are not mentally incapable but do have behaviorial issues should be completely removed from public schools and put into alternative schools, not just the really bad ones, but the ones that fuck it up for everyone else.

Maybe, but are those kids really bad kids, or do they just have profoundly shitty home lives? And if so, sending them to alternative schools isn’t going to help.

However, the problem with any solution like this is that these problem students go on to be problem adults. If they never learn to get along with other people, then they NEVER get along with other people. That is why we do not just kick the disruptive students out of school. We give them every opportunity we can.

Plus if the kids aren’t at school, and they can’t work in the mills, then where are they? At the pool hall that’s where. We got trouble.

But seriously the problem with schools is parents, teachers, administrators and students. The real problem is that not every kid is going to set the world on fire with their intellect, let alone go to college. We should maybe have other alternatives for them rather than shoe horning them into the NCLB box. That box has the developmentally disabled taking algebra tests fer cryin out loud.

I reiterate: the schools are fine, the people suck.

@acalhoun

Can De even have a basement. Y’all were always using our track because, so we were told, it would be difficult to have one due to the water table.