Local News 08.15.08
Aug 15 2008 — 2:00am
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17 comments in past 24 hours
Skug and jane - I pretty much agree. (Boring!)
Gabriel Cheifetz
Nov 22 2009 - 2:23 am →
It is the point when defense contractors also suck off the public teat. Corporate welfare. Puts dollars in Dick Cheney's pockets.
noodleman
Nov 22 2009 - 1:11 am →
Fuck weapons of war also noodleman I don't want to pay for that either. Can you say red hearing. Pull out of every base around the globe is my ho...
swandog
Nov 22 2009 - 12:28 am →
Well, gosh, swandog. Let's make churches responsible for the behavior of all their congregations. But then who would be financially responsible for...
noodleman
Nov 22 2009 - 12:07 am →
Assurance Process The American resettlement organization must "assure" the Department of State that it is prepared to receive each matched refugee...
swandog
Nov 21 2009 - 11:45 pm →
Here's a short summary of the refugee resettlement process in the US: http://www.refugees.org/article.aspx?id=1082&subm=40&ssm=47&a...
mnblrmkr
Nov 21 2009 - 9:31 pm →
Just did a quick search, and it appears that for 2009, the refugee quota was set at 80,000 again. Usually, fewer refugees are actually admitted th...
mnblrmkr
Nov 21 2009 - 9:15 pm →
"So your premise is that the churches have nothing to do with importing refugee populations into the state." No ,they are involved, but the refu...
mnblrmkr
Nov 21 2009 - 9:13 pm →
http://www.mnchurches.org/programs/directservices/refugeservices.html Our Partnerships: Refugee Services became a program of the Minnesota Counc...
swandog
Nov 21 2009 - 8:00 pm →
Noodleman - I do NOT think that Somalians commit more welfare fraud than other groups of people. People are people they will always maximize a giv...
swandog
Nov 21 2009 - 7:43 pm →
144 Reader Comments
5:18 pm
Yeah they all come here to work eh. I’ve said it once and i’ll say it again, we need to put troops on the border to protect us from latin american crime organizations.
5:47 pm
How would the troops do that, Berfus?
8:03 pm
By having more guards watching more areas. Also seeing heavily armed men might create an intimidation factor.
8:33 pm
Nothing like martial law to create a cozy feeling!!!
9:00 pm
Well, we do have all these trained soldiers sitting around with nothing to do.
12:01 am
By having more guards watching more areas. Also seeing heavily armed men might create an intimidation factor.
You haven’t really thought this out, have you?
1:02 am
I don’t think that will work, Beefus. Let’s dig a moat around the country and fill it with tiny dinosaurs that eat only Hispanics.
10:53 am
I used to be one of those “heavily armed men” that Berfus speaks of. I’m more concerned about the “Berfuses” than any “Jose, Can You See” who crosses the Rio Grande for a better life in the Land O da Free.
Just saying…
12:14 pm
I suppose all of these oppressed gang members came here to “work hard”. They must have been doing the jobs Americans did not want to do like traffic drugs and deal in prostitution. I saw this happening when I lived in the “big city” and I got out. The graffiti was all over and the “community” seemed to think by coddling the gang- bangers they would some how stop what they were doing. What is a shame is the surrounding suburbs are now just a continuum of the failed policies of Mpls and St. Paul (sanctuary cities ). As long as the citizenry of Mpls. and St. Paul allow this to happen we will all pay the price of their failed policies. This state needs to wake up and deal with a growing imported problem. It unfortunately took the federal government to deal with the problem through ICE. The state needs to take a more active role in cracking down on this problem. Minneapolis has never dealt with their gang problem and Tony Boza in the eighties was the first moron to turn a blind eye to the problem when is stated that we did not have a gang problem. I think R.T. must have gone to the same law enforcemt school of “do nothing and coddle the criminals.”
Nothing like martial law to create a cozy feeling!!!
Boarder security is not a form of martial law. The federal government is charged with securing the boarders and protecting the citezens of the United states. When did this country become charges with creating a cozy feeling?
I don’t think that will work, Beefus. Let’s dig a moat around the country and fill it with tiny dinosaurs that eat only Hispanics.
How about a fence with mines that is cost effective and will detour people from crossing.
12:22 pm
I’m not sure you’re clear on just how big that border is, or just how likely those mines are to blow up some little American kid backpacking with his parents.
But, hey, you know, if your irrational fear of Mexicans is more important than not mining civilian areas, by all means, contact your senator.
12:27 pm
Boarder security is not a form of martial law.
That’s why I keep all my lodgers under house arrest.
12:31 pm
But, hey, you know, if your irrational fear of Mexicans is more important than not mining civilian areas, by all means, contact your senator
The old mnspeak race baiting tactic, come up with something new. It is not Mexicans I fear, it is an open boarder that allows criminals into this country. Please read the article, I think the gang-bangers were illegals.
12:40 pm
But your response treats everyone from Mexico as likely criminals, and the mines jeopardize everybody, including the millions of Mexicans and Americans who cross the border legally each year.
Liberals are always accused of thinking they can solve a problem by just throwing money at it, but I hear a lot of people who think you can solve problems just by throwing more cops or more military at them, which doesn’t seem that different to me.
1:22 pm
Do you have any stats that show the majority of gang members are illegal immigrants? Ever heard of the Crips, Bloods, and their offshoots? Gang banging didn’t start with illegal immigration. Look at the Italian, Irish, and Jewish mafia, most of whom immigrated legally.
1:49 pm
He was referring to the recent gang sweep in brooklyn park. Other gangs are a problem so we don’t need any more here illegally
2:13 pm
Oh, well, yeah, one sweep, it’s obviously a representative sample then.
2:18 pm
First off, I’d like to give props to the producers of the History Channel’s TV show “Gangland”. Great show, y’all.
Um, there are also the Asian gangs. Word on the street is that no Asian countries border the US. But I mean, I could be wrong with the fancy education I received as a 1st grader.
Also, a majority of all the gang members in the US are citizens. Yeah, there’s a good chance they’re first generation but the fact of the matter is that they carry a US passport. Okay, that’s not true because most Americans could give a darn about going abroad and don’t have passports ( I just got one this year). But they are entitled to a US passport.
Furthermore, a lot of the *corrupt* illegal immigrants actually come to the US legally and then overstay their visas. If you can be a gangleader, then you’re pretty savvy with criminal stuff and probably know good ways to circumvent border patrol. It’s also a possibile for people to legally enter Canada on a visa (its easier than the US) and to just walk across the largest unprotected border in the world.
But to make a long story short, we definately need more southern border guards because I’m sick and tired of hard working people coming into this country and making lazy ass Americans look bad. And I don’t think enough of our national guard *isnt* available when crazy shit goes down.
So yeah, more agents on the Mexican border.
Totes.
6:11 pm
I’m sick and tired of hard working people coming into this country and making lazy ass Americans look bad.
It’s funny because it’s true!
7:30 pm
“who crosses the Rio Grande for a better life in the Land O da Free.”
And the first act this person does to live in the land of the free is to break our laws?
Just sayin’ Bob…
7:47 pm
If your family was hungry, and the law was arbitrary, what would you do?
7:48 pm
Do you know if Berfus has broken any laws, Bob?
7:50 pm
But your response treats everyone from Mexico as likely criminals, and the mines jeopardize everybody, including the millions of Mexicans and Americans who cross the border legally each year.a
I think both of us agree we welcome and want immigrants just not through an open boarder. I see Mexicans as just brown Norwegians they work hard, take care of their families and want to do well. The criminal eliment comes through open boarders. I want to live by anyone that works hard, regardless of ethnicity. I would argue that the legal Mexicans that come here are more at risk of exploitation by illegal criminals.
7:52 pm
If your family was hungry, and the law was arbitrary, what would you do?
I don’t know what you’re talking about. There are legal ways to get into the United States. If going through channels strikes you as “arbitrary” then, well, OK.
8:02 pm
I think both of us agree we welcome and want immigrants just not through an open boarder.
The US/Mexico border is almost 2,000 miles long; how would you patrol that? Can we even afford the troops that would require? And still have an active military that does something other than just walk along a border with Mexico because there were several dozen gangmembers discovered in Minnesota that frightened you and Berfus? There are quite a few American cities that run right along the US Mexico border, and the Rio Grande, that is extensively used, as well as many Mexican cities. Honestly, your idea of troops massing along such an enormous border and placing land mines in populated areas is both impossible and ridiculous, and I honestly think you just don’t know what you’re talking about.
8:04 pm
The old mnspeak race baiting tactic, come up with something new. It is not Mexicans I fear, it is an open boarder that allows criminals into this country.
Oh, and getting back to this bit of nonsense, “Mexican” is not a race.
8:17 pm
I don’t know what you’re talking about.
No you don’t. Nor are you curious.
8:44 pm
I don’t think there’s any legitimate “race” Max. Except maybe for the human race. Any classification of people by race is arbitrary and non-scientific.
8:57 pm
Well, true enough. But by conventional classifications of race, “Mexican” doesn’t fit. It’s a nationality, and there are Mexicans that come from each of the historic classifications of race.
9:04 pm
OK, I see your point. I think it’s just an aspect of the Minnesota race to argue about dumb stuff that’s off topic.
9:15 pm
securing the boarders
We must secure them in comfy blankets and offer them continental breakfasts!
10:39 pm
I don’t know what you’re talking about.
I don’t know what you’re talking about.
10:42 pm
There are legal ways to get into the United States. If going through channels strikes you as “arbitrary” then, well, OK.
11:02 pm
I hate open boarders too! I wish they’d stay in their rooms and stop telling me everything about their lives and being all extra-honest and stuff.
Wondering when certain people will catch on about open boarders.
11:08 pm
Swandog may see Mexicans as brown Norwegians but I see Norwegians as albino Mexicans who can’t easily sneak across a border because of the tremendous weight of their invisible knapsacks.
1:40 am
“Arrested…on various state and federal charges, including weapons possession, possessing illegal drugs and criminal traffic offenses. Twelve of those arrested have previous convictions, including assault, drug possession, criminal damage to property, burglary, disorderly conduct and drunken driving.”
Wow, I’m so glad white people never commit crimes like that.
8:25 am
“Channels” require special job skills or family connections most Mexicans don’t have, Rat. Even with family in the U.S. many are denied access because there are limits on legal immigration. Even the most casual googling will find you a more robust and nuanced—dare I say, emotionally intelligent–perspective on immigration that involves sympathy for human beings and a real understanding of their motives. These are not just a bunch of delinquent teens sneaking in the back of the movie theater.
8:27 am
If going through channels strikes you as “arbitrary” then, well, OK.
You’re doing fine as Maz’s understudy, Rat.
9:57 am
These are not just a bunch of delinquent teens sneaking in the back of the movie theater.
I never said they were.
And I thought the original idea of fines, combined the ability of people re-apply for work in the United States was a partial solution, and a step in the right direction, but that was shouted down by both right and left, it seems.
There must be something that can be done that starts to address the issue of people illegally in the country, that doesn’t insult the efforts of millions of people who come to the United States, work hard and achieve citizenship by the book.
10:35 am
Well, I don’t disagree with any of that, but I found your previous references to “legal channels” to be glib and naive. You have no reason to suppose that those legal channels haven’t been pursued and failed, and it still comes down to the moral question: what would you do?
Also, you don’t think the laws are arbitrary that make Cubans coming to the states with any notice legal and heroic and Mexicans public enemy number one?
10:41 am
(with any notice => without any notice)
11:36 am
The US/Mexico border is almost 2,000 miles long; how would you patrol that? Can we even afford the troops that would require? And still have an active military that does something other than just walk along a border with Mexico because there were several dozen gangmembers discovered in Minnesota that frightened you and Berfus?
A duel fence with a road between populated areas and mine in areas less accessible. This is the type of fence used near the California boarder. It is not that hard or that expensive relative to the federal budget. what we would save on deportation costs, social service cost and incarceration costs, this would pay for the fence. I am not frightened I am sick of paying illegals in this country and this state. Is it going to be free to deport, prosecute and house the individuals in the article the answer is no. See below for the cost in this state.
You seem to think this is some kind of race issue to secure the boarder that allows criminals to infiltrate into this country, it is not.
There must be something that can be done that starts to address the issue of people illegally in the country, that doesn’t insult the efforts of millions of people who come to the United States, work hard and achieve citizenship by the book.
both sides play this like a political fiddle. The dems want to play the race card and gain an increase in minority votes and the repubs just want cheap labor they can exploit. If you fined every employer 100,000 per illegal employees you would stop illegal immigration in it’s tracks..
Oh, and getting back to this bit of nonsense, “Mexican” is not a race.
Max thanks for pointing that out, again you race bait when you don’t like someones opinion. When that does not work you provide a English lesson or point out some obscure fact i.e. the statement above. But thank for the ethnicity lesson.
11:38 am
http://www.mnforsustain.org/immg_mn_state_illegals_cost_study.htm
sorry this did not come over
11:55 am
The dems want to play the race card and gain an increase in minority votes
Bush was the one who brought up the idea of Amnesty to secure the hispanic vote, BTW.
11:58 am
Bush was the one who brought up the idea of Amnesty to secure the hispanic vote, BTW.
His party did not support it thus no vote on the issue.
12:11 pm
A 2,000 mile area of dual fences or mines. Brilliant. Where do you suggest we put mines on the the Campo Reservation, which straddles the Mexican/American border? And where are we going to put the mines, or fences, along the full-length of the rio grande, which is heavily, and legally, used by both the United States and Mexico?
Max thanks for pointing that out, again you race bait when you don’t like someones opinion.
I certainly do not. As I mentioned earlier, and as you seemed to notice and then disregard, Mexican is not a race. My complaint is that your response is expensive, impossible, unaware of geography, and will certainly injure or kill people who are near or crossing the border for entirely legal reasons. My complaint as well as simply making the border a war zone affects people who are not your targets — all Mexicans, not simply illegal immigrants. That’s not a race issue. It’s a national issue. Also, I think your response is entirely disproportional to the fact that two dozen gangbangers got arrested here. You know, every so often a Cuban floats over to Florida, and some of them commit crimes. Would you suggest that we mine the waters around Florida?
If you really want to end illegal immigration, don’t eat out at restaurants, don’t hire services that do your yard work, and don’t eat food that use migrant laborers. And, by the way, a significant number of illegal aliens came here legally, but overstayed their Visas. Not sure how mines are going to keep them out.
12:14 pm
It was called amnesty, but a stiff fine and a need to re-apply with other requirements I can’t recall hardly seems like a free pass to me. It had bi-partisan support.
12:27 pm
If you fined every employer 100,000 per illegal employees you would stop illegal immigration in it’s tracks..
You would also see a major economic crisis that would make the mortgage meltdown look like a Sunday picnic.
3/4 the US produce crop would be rotting in the fields.
12:33 pm
You know, every so often a Cuban floats over to Florida, and some of them commit crimes. Would you suggest that we mine the waters around Florida?
Hell, Castro took advantage of that “wet foot-dry foot” rule to empty out his prisons and mental hospitals during the 1980 Mariel boat lift.
1:01 pm
You know, I’m still not clear on why Cubans can get in just by showing up while Haitians can’t.
I mean, I know the government’s official answer on it but it’s still ridiculous…
1:08 pm
Cubans who get caught in the water get sent back. But I agree that we should let Haitians in. After all, we created a lot of the circumstances that lead to their misery (we occupied the island from 1915 to 1934, and the Duvalier reign of terror developed in response to that; we then backed Aristide, despite the fact that his presidency was based on massive fraud). You set a house on fire, it becomes you responsibility to shelter the people who flee it.
1:08 pm
From an economic standpoint illegal immigration is actually a wash. Both sides pretty much cancel out each other. Sorry to be all Maz about not providing a source cite but I can do that when I get to a real computer.
1:18 pm
hat’s not a race issue. It’s a national issue. Also, I think your response is entirely disproportional to the fact that two dozen gangbangers got arrested here. You know, every so often a Cuban floats over to Florida, and some of them commit crimes. Would you suggest that we mine the waters around Florida?
One of the charges of government it to protect their citizens the local officials are failing and the national politician are failing. This is about saftey and money. I do not owe anyone a life in America. they either follow the rule of law or get deported. As I have shown it does cost the state money and we do not need to pay it. It is a national issue and we need to protect the boarders. We do patrol the waters off of Florida. It is much more difficult to get in a boat and cross open water than it is to walk across a boarder. The coast guard is charged with protecting the waters off of the coast of Florida and that is a military operation.
If you really want to end illegal immigration, don’t eat out at restaurants, don’t hire services that do your yard work, and don’t eat food that use migrant laborers. And, by the way, a significant number of illegal aliens came here legally, but overstayed their Visas. Not sure how mines are going to keep them out.
That is a excellent idea, boycott those businesses that hire illegal aliens. We should start a companion to not do business with those that chose to hire illegals. If the politicians can’t stop it maybe the citizens of the United States should put pressure on those that break the law. Maybe Lou Dobbs will assist in this endeavor. I made my roofer provide proof he did not hire illegals to work on my house. The first one could not do this so he was not hired.
The best way to stop the people who over stay their visas is they must provide documentation when they use any social service or apply for a job. If the employer is caught fine the hell out of them.
< em>You would also see a major economic crisis that would make the mortgage meltdown look like a Sunday picnic.
3/4 the US produce crop would be rotting in the fields.
They would not rot in the fields and if they did well too bad. The farmers would either pay more of a living wage to their workers or they would mechanize. We are currently paying the cost of these workers through our social service programs. We as a people essentially subsidize businesses labor pool and I am sick of it. We need to pay a true market cost of goods and services not a taxpayer subsidy to big aggro business.
1:23 pm
Cubans who get caught in the water get sent back. But I agree that we should let Haitians in. After all, we created a lot of the circumstances that lead to their misery (we occupied the island from 1915 to 1934, and the Duvalier reign of terror developed in response to that; we then backed Aristide, despite the fact that his presidency was based on massive fraud). You set a house on fire, it becomes you responsibility to shelter the people who flee it.
No we do not owe anyone anything. We need to stay out of other countries, occupation 90 years ago does not make that country our problem. We are not the police, welfare state for the globe or moral compass to the world.
1:27 pm
No we do not owe anyone anything.
Yes we do. A half century of regular interference in the development of a nation, whose direct repercussions are poverty, political turmoil, and mass death? What would we have to do to a country before you think we owe them something, Swandog?
You’re arguing a position that is neither ethical nor moral, and the only support you have for it is that you can state ill-considered opinions REALLY FORCEFULLY.
1:29 pm
One of the charges of government it to protect their citizens the local officials are failing and the national politician are failing.
Crime statistics have regularly been going down, Swandog. How do you see this as failing.
Oh, yeah. Because they rounded up 24 Mexican gangbangers.
Hey, wait. They rounded them up. Anyone else would see that as a sign that the police are doing their job.
1:40 pm
Yes we do. A half century of regular interference in the development of a nation, whose direct repercussions are poverty, political turmoil, and mass death? What would we have to do to a country before you think we owe them something, Swandog?
You’re arguing a position that is neither ethical nor moral, and the only support you have for it is that you can state ill-considered opinions REALLY FORCEFULLY.
How far back do you go in history. Wouldn’t Spain be responsible. Ethics and morals are in fact opinions. We need to stay out of other countries business. Why don’t we invade Dar four, or every other shit hole country in the world that treats it’s people like shit. (crap we did that in Iraq) We owe he world nothing and the world owes us nothing. Man has been killing each other for thousands of years and that is not going to change. Human beings are cruel and seek power over others, we can’t change that. We need to take care of United states citizens first and foremost, the rest of the would needs to figure it out on their own.
1:47 pm
Don’t be daft. We’re talking about direct interference that occurred within your and my lifetime. The people who would be benefiting from an open immigration policy would be the same people that suffered from US interference. You obviously haven’t bothered to read anything at all about the history of US interference in Haiti.
Ethics and morals are opinions? Well, perhaps, but they can be reasoned opinions rooted in compassion and a sophisticated understanding of working toward the common good, or they can be pure selfishness.
1:47 pm
Crime statistics have regularly been going down, Swandog. How do you see this as failing.
Oh, yeah. Because they rounded up 24 Mexican gangbangers.
Hey, wait. They rounded them up. Anyone else would see that as a sign that the police are doing their job.
Crime stats are going down marginally but the cost of prosecuting, housing and feeding shit head is going up. Furthermore it was 38 gang bangers not 24. This is always the argument, hey it was not as bad as it was when we called it murderapolis in the mid nineties. The police did not pick up the majority of them, it was the federal government that took action in Mpls and St paul not the local police. The local police only participated because the feds requested they assist. This is a major sign of failing law enfocement, they can’t do it so the feds have to step in. RT and company are inept and unable to get the job done this is the underlying problem, not marginal statistical changes from one year to the next.
1:49 pm
Oh, jeez, 38 gangbanger. Shit. Mine the borders.
1:52 pm
They would not rot in the fields and if they did well too bad.
Unless you’re ready to pay the triple or quadruple cost of produce in the grocery store, yeah, they are.
And, no it’s not just “too bad.” There would be major disruptions to both the food supply and the economy.
1:52 pm
Ethics and morals are opinions? Well, perhaps, but they can be reasoned opinions rooted in compassion and a sophisticated understanding of working toward the common good, or they can be pure selfishness.
So we ethically owe the world a “common good” over the interest of the united states citizen common good. Common good implies benefits to those that subscribe to the so called common good. I do not see it that way, we owe the citizens of the united states a common good that focuses on what is in our nations best interest. We do need to show restraint in how we obtain what we need from the rest of the world but we owe the world nothing.
1:55 pm
Unless you’re ready to pay the triple or quadruple cost of produce in the grocery store, yeah, they are.
And, no it’s not just “too bad.” There would be major disruptions to both the food supply and the economy.
we would adjust fairly quickly. The U.S. tax payer does not owe big aggro-business anything. If the market for produce was not subsidized then yes I am ready to pay more in the grocery store the market would adjust.
1:55 pm
All right. Enough. It’s time for Bear Force One. I’m sure they can take care of both the borders and the boarders.
1:55 pm
Oh, jeez, 38 gangbanger. Shit. Mine the borders.
We could also enforce the law.
1:56 pm
Doubtful, since grocery stores operate on less than a 1% operating margin right now.
2:04 pm
Doubtful, since grocery stores operate on less than a 1% operating margin right now.
The price would go up but the margins would remain fairly stable. The cost would be passed on to the consumer in the form of higher prices. People would either buy less, substitute a different product for a given product or the product would not be sold due to increased production costs. We do not owe anyone a cheap food subsidized by social service payments to illegal aliens.
2:05 pm
You really think that a tripling of food prices across the board would allow for a stable margin when it’s less than 1% now? You’re nuts.
2:23 pm
Here’s an interesting statistic. Less than 2% of illegal immigrants are picking our crops, but 29% of illegal aliens are on welfare.
2:31 pm
Here’s an interesting fact: Berfus’s statistic, if it were true, would only be for LA county. Here’s another interesting fact: It’s not true.
The U.S. department of Labor said that the number of farm workers who were undocumented in 1998-1998 was 52%. Regarding welfare, most illegal immigrants are not eligible for welfare except for elementary and high school education and emergency medical care. Children born in the U.S. are citizens and qualify for certain public assistance. But what is generally thought of as welfare is available only to citizens or legal immigrants.
2:34 pm
The misery of haiti was not caused by america. It was caused by the blacks who committed genocide on the white french who ruled the island and under their control made it the most prosperous nation on the caribbean.
2:37 pm
You really think that a tripling of food prices across the board would allow for a stable margin when it’s less than 1% now? You’re nuts.
When marginal revenue equals marginal cost you have a break even situation. Either the marginal cost, (legal labor = increase in price of given product) is equal to or greater to the marginal revenue (cost of good sold) or it is not. Margins move as a percentage, so the tippling of a given product may not change the actual margin. Gas prices are a good example. But if the cost is to high or you can’t produce and make a profit then that product or producer will go out of business. So what, it is a market not a welfare program. People are not owed cheap produce, they should pay what it costs to produce with a profit built in that is how it should work. the demand would go down so the retailer may lose some money on the number of units sold but probably would not lose on the margin. It would depend on the elasticity of the demand for a given product.
2:38 pm
Wow. Do you know any true facts, Berfus?
2:42 pm
But if the cost is to high or you can’t produce and make a profit then that product or producer will go out of business. So what, it is a market not a welfare program. People are not owed cheap produce, they should pay what it costs to produce with a profit built in that is how it should work. the demand would go down so the retailer may lose some money on the number of units sold but probably would not lose on the margin. It would depend on the elasticity of the demand for a given product.
I hope you welcome the beginning of food shortages and starvation then. The market isn’t as elastic as you think.
2:45 pm
Hold it Aliecat. Swandog might be right. After all, soaring costs of food aren’t causing any sort of crises worldwide.
Oh, crap. Waitasecond.
2:45 pm
And it’s not about cheap food, it’s about affordability. Most people have other bills to pay besides their food bills.
2:45 pm
Regarding welfare, most illegal immigrants are not eligible for welfare except for elementary and high school education and emergency medical care.
That in and of itself is reason to close the boarder. I didn’t know that medical care and education were free. Education and health care make up a huge portion of most states budget we should not be subsidizing other countries people.
Children born in the U.S. are citizens and qualify for certain public assistance. But what is generally thought of as welfare is available only to citizens or legal immigrants.
Semantics, they come have a baby on our dime (free medical care at emergency room) and then we don’t count that as welfare for illegals because mommy and daddy are playing cross the boarder for free car for their kids for life, come on.
2:46 pm
That’s exactly what I was talking about, Max.
2:47 pm
Why do you insist on spelling it boarder? A boarder is someone who rents from you.
2:48 pm
Medical care isn’t free for illegals, swandog, it comes out of the pockets of hospitals who build in charity care into their budgets. And it’s not just for illegals, it’s also U.S. citizens who lack insurance.
2:49 pm
So what i gather is you all support a system of semi-slavery so you can by strawberries on the cheap.
2:50 pm
$5 a pint for strawberries is hardly cheap.
2:51 pm
Swandog, illegals pay a much larger percent of their income into regressive taxes than most Americans. They’re not exactly living here on our dimes. Most illegals work hard, and most of their income goes right back into the economy.
2:53 pm
So what i gather is you all support a system of semi-slavery so you can by strawberries on the cheap.
Considering you just a few moments ago described the only successful slave rebellion in the history os the Americas as genocide, and blamed Haiti’s problems on slaves that freed themselves, I’m not certain what you’re complaining about, Berfus.
2:54 pm
And it’s not about cheap food, it’s about affordability. Most people have other bills to pay besides their food bills.
One of the bills is taxes and we pay for it one way or another. I would rather pay less in taxes and more for food. I can control the cost of food to some degree but not the imposition of taxes on me.
I hope you welcome the beginning of food shortages and starvation then. The market isn’t as elastic as you think.
You or I will not control that over the long run. Malthusian equilibrium, is a good starting point.
2:57 pm
Medical care isn’t free for illegals, swandog, it comes out of the pockets of hospitals who build in charity care into their budgets. And it’s not just for illegals, it’s also U.S. citizens who lack insurance.
Really no one pays for that, it’s free. those that pay for insurance pay for it and the county pays for it. That is why emergency rooms are closing across this country, it does not pay to have them. In the end the county pays and that is through tax dollars plain and simple.
2:58 pm
Some of the other bills we pay are housing and utilities. Would you rather have a roof over your head, heat in the winter, or food in the cupboard, because those are the decisions more people than do now will have to make with what you’re suggesting.
2:59 pm
I would rather pay less in taxes and more for food. I can control the cost of food to some degree but not the imposition of taxes on me.
And yet you are perfectly willing to mine the Rio Grand. Who is going to pay for that?
3:00 pm
Actually, we pay for that “free” medical care through increased insurance premiums. Medicare and Medicaid payments to hospitals have decreased.
3:00 pm
Swandog, illegals pay a much larger percent of their income into regressive taxes than most Americans. They’re not exactly living here on our dimes. Most illegals work hard, and most of their income goes right back into the economy.
They by definition do not make a large income so a percentage of very little is very little. It does not make up for what we pay out.
$5 a pint for strawberries is hardly cheap.
so don’t buy them
3:01 pm
Well if you find something heroic about murdering women and children, max i guess this is where we split hairs.
3:02 pm
Shall I not buy milk, cheese, eggs, and meat, either?
3:02 pm
Well if you find something heroic about murdering women and children, max i guess this is where we split hairs.
3:06 pm
They by definition do not make a large income so a percentage of very little is very little. It does not make up for what we pay out.
Aw. The travesty that an incredibly tiny percentage of your taxes are going to someone who snuck across the border. I have yet to hear you complain about the huge percent of your taxes that goes into building bombs.
Illegal immigration is a bugaboo that is popularly used to scare xenophobes. But, unless you happen to be an illegal immigrant or a business owner who employs illegal immigrants, it’s not an issue that is likely to effect you in any significant way.
3:07 pm
Shall I not buy milk, cheese, eggs, and meat, either?
Is that a current problem or a made up problem. If that is the case you better hope that we do not bankrupt the welfare system before you need it. Poor people in America are often times over weight I do not think that anyone is starving. but You might think twice about breeding if you can’t afford to feed your self.
3:12 pm
Swandog, is your attitude a made up persona or a real one? If that is the case, you better hope that you don’t need someone to care for you in your old age.
3:14 pm
And if you don’t think people in America are starving, then you obviously live a sheltered life.
3:15 pm
Aw. The travesty that an incredibly tiny percentage of your taxes are going to someone who snuck across the border. I have yet to hear you complain about the huge percent of your taxes that goes into building bombs.
No I do care if we overspend our money on bullshit wars and bombs both are a wast of money. We are bankrupting our country by playing the “oh but this cost that so you should pay for this program.” Waste is waste.
Illegal immigration is a bugaboo that is popularly used to scare xenophobes. But, unless you happen to be an illegal immigrant or a business owner who employs illegal immigrants, it’s not an issue that is likely to effect you in any significant way.
How is the graffiti and crime doing along cedar and Lake street. Last I saw it was getting pretty shitty over their. They arrested gang Leaders not some kid mowing lawns. I posted what it cost the state earlier so it does cost money.
3:15 pm
Well if you find something heroic about murdering women and children, max i guess this is where we split hairs.
About 2,000 people died in the 1791 slave revolt, out of a white population of 20,000. I find no historical references that demonstrate that women or children were specifically targeted. And yet you have the temerity and ignorance of history to call it genocide.
3:18 pm
How is the graffiti and crime doing along cedar and Lake street.
Pretty well, I would say, since I live a half mile from there and go to that area two or three times per week. That area has undergone a renaissance, mostly brought about by Mexican immigrants. Have you been there lately?
And how does that affect you, precisely?
3:19 pm
Swandog, is your attitude a made up persona or a real one? If that is the case, you better hope that you don’t need someone to care for you in your old age.
I save money and live as simple as I can so I can take care of myself. If I got to the point that I had to take from somone else then that would be the time to go.
And if you don’t think people in America are starving, then you obviously live a sheltered life.
Show me one stat that someone in the united states of America starved to death due to poverty. Their may be some study that says someone did not eat what they wanted to or missed a meal but that is defiantly not starving.
3:20 pm
I’ll pay twenty $ a pint for strawberries if i know they’re being picked by an american citizen.
3:21 pm
Is that a current problem or a made up problem. If that is the case you better hope that we do not bankrupt the welfare system before you need it.
Just so we’re clear, I was talking about those who are considered the working poor, those who make too much to qualify for SSI or EBT, yet can barely afford to make ends meet.
3:24 pm
Pretty well, I would say, since I live a half mile from there and go to that area two or three times per week. That area has undergone a renaissance, mostly brought about by Mexican immigrants. Have you been there lately?
yes, I like the Mexican store on cedar. If you think the Serrano 13 graffiti is a good thing along with the crap they pull well you can have it. I know the are well and divested due to the gang crap. I do agree that the Mexican legal immigrants are the best thing that has happened in that area for a long time.
3:26 pm
I have seen very few examples of the graffiti you’re talking about, Swandog, and I worked near Lake and Cedar for a year until I took over editing MnSpeak. There’s some dope who goes around my neighborhood occasionally spray painting “slut” on stop signs. Does that mean the state isn’t do enough to protect us from a dangerous influx of loose women?
3:27 pm
I save money and live as simple as I can so I can take care of myself. If I got to the point that I had to take from somone else then that would be the time to go.
Good point, we should get rid of all those Olds in nursing homes and disabled people in care centers, nothing but layabouts and drains on our precious resources.
3:44 pm
The able-bodied us citizens who are on welfare should get off their lazy butts and do the jobs illegal immigrants are doing.
3:52 pm
1. I vaguely remember someone mentioning. Illegal immigrants from places like Asia and then mentioning something about people overstaying their visas (a point later reiterated by Sparb-B-Q.). I’d really like someone who is pro-fence to address those issues please.
2. You may be willing to pay 20.00 for All-American strawberries and you may be willing to pay more to “not support” slave labor by migrant workers but I’m rather curious where you get your clothes, where you all buy your consumer durables, etc. Are you willing to pay significantly more for everything? If you’re willing to do that, the bigger question is can you afford to? I highly doubt illegal immigration is keeping Berfus’ salary down, so I highly doubt that stopping illegal immigration will make up the cost difference.
So, don’t pretend that you’re taking the moral high ground by non-supporting illegal immigration because I don’t think any of us on either side are NOT supporting the exploitation of workers.
That said, I thought Foghorn Leghorn convincingly established that slavery isn’t all that bad in the confederate flag thread a couple of months back?
3. Re: Welfare Queens
Don’t you just hate people who refuse to work and instead sit on their asses in their subsidized housing (paid for with our tax dollars), spending our hard earned money on stupid shit while their bad ass spawn run around and ruin everything the good American people?
3:54 pm
*for the good American people.
4:01 pm
You raise a good point bixby. We have let international banking interests and super-capitalists totally destroy the american way of life.
4:11 pm
Although, I’m not ashamed of taking the moral low-ground when it comes to supporting Cat Prin: Japanese Tailors of Cats. a company which blatantly exploits cats.
4:14 pm
If a family and a cat become fortunate, you will take a commemorative photo! Therefore, please photo your cat lovelily with much trouble.
4:20 pm
Let’s see if that shuts off the italics.
4:25 pm
So, is swandog going to commit suicide to avoid going into long term care?
4:25 pm
These italics are persistent.
4:26 pm
Oh no! the attack of italics! Close down the borders, or we’ll have the mafia everywhere!
4:28 pm
STOP IT
4:31 pm
Oops.
4:45 pm
Not every elderly person has an immigrant caring for them. None of my grandparents did. They had a family to do that.
4:46 pm
WTF?
4:47 pm
MNspeak is broken
4:47 pm
Joanna wins funny and Berfus wins random.
4:48 pm
MNspeak is broken
Max is going to be so pissed when he gets home.
4:51 pm
Hey Berfus, what’s your name again?
4:51 pm
Maybe we can call this the MNSpeak 2.0 upgrade we’ve all been waiting for.
5:02 pm
Not every elderly person has an immigrant caring for them.
Anecdotal evidence doesn’t really prove much. Sure, not all of them require LTC, but a lot of them do. Apparently the people with no families, drained retirement, or families who cannot afford to pay for their care are leeches of the system who deserve to just die.
5:02 pm
Why do you care what my name is sandburg
5:03 pm
Okay, I just re-read that berfus quote. Not every elderly person has an IMMIGRANT caring for them? What in the crazy hell does that even mean?
Nevermind. I don’t want to know.
5:16 pm
I need to verify you really are not harboring any terrorists/immigrants on your farm.
5:22 pm
Maybe there’s something really wrong with me and/or I’m reading it wrong but I completely understood Berfus’ statement about every elderly person not having an immigrant taking care of them.
I read it as follows:
Ang asked Swan how he planned on getting around the chance of needing long term care.
I assumed the majority of long-term care is for elderly people and the pay is horriblely low, so immigrants are likely to fill that role.
I interpreted Berfus’ statement as meaning that, not everyone receives long term care from care workers. For whatever reason he said immigrants when he meant care workers.
5:41 pm
Good one sandburg. That was so funny i forgot to laugh.
6:01 pm
Bix, that could be where he was trying to go, but LTC workers are RNs, nurse practitioners (certified nationally) and other health care providers. So, low pay isn’t a factor, and because of their credentials, are less likely to be illegal residents.
You’re maybe thinking of Personal Care Attendants; that is definitely lower pay than health care providers because they’re not licensed. As a result, yes, that job is probably staffed heavily by illegal residents (a lot of 1/1/19xx birthdates in that industry [because they're only sure of the year] is a good indication that they are at least immigrants, but not of their legal status).
6:21 pm
I never said people in assisted living homes were leeches. My point is american citizens should be working there, not illegal aliens.
6:22 pm
Did you read what I just wrote at all, or are you satisfied to continue assuming things you don’t really understand?
6:24 pm
To clarify further, PCAs typically work on site in the client’s homes. Nursing Homes are staffed by nurses.
6:26 pm
@Ang
That’s exactly what I was thinking – personal care attendants. Oops.
6:26 pm
Yeah i read it and understand perfectly. Do you understand what i’m saying?
6:27 pm
Not in the least.
6:44 pm
Who’s on first
6:47 pm
Nope. You continue to think that employees in Nursing Homes are illegal residents and I’m telling that is so unlikely unless the Home is involved in other illegal practices, in which case, employing illegal residents are the least of their worries.
Registered Nurses are licensed by the state in which they practice, and Nurse Practitioners are RNs with a national certification in a nursing specialty, like a Gerontological NP. Obtaining either of those is pretty damn difficult if you can’t provide proof of legal residence. But go ahead and keep believing you have a handle on it.
6:51 pm
Berfus, are you naturally this obtuse or did you take lessons?
7:29 pm
Let me just see if I understand the planks of Swandog’s plan to deal with illegal immigration correctly.
1. Accidentally blow up American kids who are fishing in the Rio Grande.
2. Turn the US/Mexico border into a militarized zone. Presumably an underfunded one, as Swandog does not like to pay taxes.
3. Create food riots in the United States.
4. Put old people on ice floes and send them out into the ocean to die.
5. Screw up the MnSpeak italics tag in almost every circumstance they are used.
Why did I spend any time today arguing with Swandog?
8:37 pm
Since I’m 99% sure Ang knows more about the subject of nursing home workers than anyone else on this site, I will believe her. Oh, and it also coincides with what I know about nursing homes.
But, I would rather have a hard working “illegal” immigrant care for me in my final days than a drop out drunk, like many of the American PCAs I have known.
8:47 pm
As the offical Arbiter Of What’s Funny, I proclaim that the only redeeming comment in this thread was, “I see Mexicans as just brown Norwegians”. I mean, wouldn’t “The Brown Norwegians” be just the greatest ever name for a band?
10:11 pm
“The Brown Norwegians” was the name of Mother and Grandmother Bixby’s accordian band back in the day. So don’t anyone else think of stealin’ that for their band name!