Secrets of the City

Sounds like you’re a perfect fit for South Minneapolis.

I thought we were keeping the moving to MN threads off the front page…

Move anywhere in Minneapolis or St. Paul and you will be fine. Just make sure you look at Google Maps or something first.

I’m also wondering if it’s easy to integrate oneself into the social and community scene in both cities, or if people are so reserved that they don’t accept people they consider “outsiders.” People here in Indiana are not real accepting of outsiders, but I just chalk it up to it being Indiana. From what I have read about “Minnesota Nice” it sounds as if people are superficially friendly, but that they are very slow to accept you as a true friend. Any thoughts?

Look for a place in uptown.

I think the whole “Minnesota Nice” is really overblown. If my experience as a transplant is any indication, well over half of your friends won’t even be from Minnesota in the first place. They’ll be from Wisconsin, North Dakota and the U.P.

Anyway, you sound like a prime candidate for catching a case of southside pride. Seward or Powderhorn Park would put you right in the middle of a busy, progressive, urban environment — it’s a lot of single-family dwellings (all clad in stucco, for reasons that have never been adequately explained to me) on small lots, organized around corners of small, locally-owned commercial areas. You can catch a bus or bike path anywhere in the city, and parking is always wide open.

Uptown is always a popular favorite, being busier than most other parts of town. Northeast is OK if you like pierogies better than bus service — it’s laid out a lot like south Minneapolis in terms of being stucco-houses-on-small-lots. Elliot Park has a kind of high-density agreeably urban feel, as does Loring Park, and both are good if you value gorgeous turn-of-the-century apartments over houses.

St. Paul is good around Cathedral Hill. It’s like a cross between Dublin, Boston and Peoria.

I have read that St. Paul tends to be less expensive than Minneapolis, in terms of apartment rent. Does anyone find this to generally be the case? I’ve also read that many Minneapolitans consider St. Paul to be a provincial, over-grown small town. **This is not my opinion; it is merely what I have read.** Are the cities more or less equal in terms of the progressive, or “hip” factor?

St. Paul is good around Cathedral Hill. It’s like a cross between Dublin, Boston and Peoria.

Have you been to any of those cities?

Of those three, I’ve been to Dublin. Can’t make the connection.

I’ve never been to Peoria or Dublin, but I knew exactly what andy meant by that and laughed out loud.

I have never been to any of those three cities, so I have no idea.

St. Paul’s a bit more working class, Catholic, Irish, nonprofity, and neighborhoody (as opposed to drive-thru urban) than Mpls. Otherwise, it’s pretty much similar, and only about six miles apart. I much prefer living in St. Paul, and being able to visit the Mill City. They don’t disrupt traffic with Common Cause hoohah as much in St. Paul, though both cities are about equally liberal. Oh, and the hotter women are from St. Paul, while the hotter men are from Mpls (tho they’re mostly gay).

Oh, and one thing that St. Paul’s got over Mpls–they have preserved more of the local history here. More downtown buildings, more of its historic neighborhoods, more robber-baron mansions, more historical governmental buildings, etc than in Mpls. So, if you’re into that sort of thing–and neighborhood, and meeting sexy women at the bars–the St. Paul’s your place. Otherwise, I guess Mpls is okay too…

much ethnic diversity

Define “much”…

I dunno, arthappy, the areas of south Minne that I’ve lived in are pretty working class…seems like a silly idea to think that StP corners that market.

Oh, I’m not saying sections of Mpls aren’t wkg class. I just think Mpls is a bit more geared toward the professional realm–the downtown financial district and all that–than St. Paul. It’s more of a nuance thing. My overall point is the cities are not all that different–more like, um, what’s the word? Twins or something…

Exactly, they’re images that have been cultivated over time, perpetuated by those who live there. Not bad or good, just images.

I’ve always thought st. Paul had a more rural feel to it, which is why i like it better.

Arthappy, the last time I talked to a cute woman in a bar in St. Paul, she turned out to be married to a hockey player. That’s not a joke, either! To suggest that the wholesome Fitzgeraldian Xcel Energy Center-haunting Catholic School-bred farmer’s daughters women of St. Paul are hotter than our fashion-designing, bassist-in-rock-band MCAD-dropout perfectly cheekboned two-generations-removed-from-”I Am Curious Yellow” part-time Walker-intern lakeside-jogging Scandihoo Minneapolis baristas is an insult of the very highest order. It will not stand. Our Minneapolis ladies are the paragon of human hotness, and I demand a retraction.

As far as the Dublin/Boston/Peoria cross, Cathedral Hill has narrow streets and cobblestones like Boston, cathedrals and toi-toi-toi Irish priests walking around like Dublin, and the crushing small-town earnestness of Peoria.

(Savor these pointless MPLS-STP arguments, Brssplr — this is how you learn the wildly inflated perceived differences between the two towns!)

Isn’t the fact that no one cares about St. Paul (even though they have the only Sonic in town) the difference between the two cities.

/kidding
//unless its true
///which it is.
/ kidding!

Can we cobble together an official statement/ q and a about the Twin Cities that can be posted on the front page so that we don’t have the same moving to MN thread at least once per week.

About St. Paul: The Irish Priest thing fails with the rise of Herr Nienstadt. Sad too as a lot of my people lost jobs with his bierhall putsch.

MPLS vs St. Paul in a nutshell: If you have kids and don’t want to shell out for private school, you live in St. Paul. Check the numbers on St. Paul Central grads going ivy league. Otherwise MPLS rocks, the neighborhoods are much more entertaining, but volatile. East Side of St. Paul, all bets are off. Who knows if they will turn the corner or sink…

Andyst: the stucco fares better in hailstorms and fire, thus all the stucco in those areas.

Oh, and thanks for sticking up for the Mpls women.

Stucco is so much easier to maintain as well, you have to recognize our superior ability to focus on necessary work. I don’t have to scrap and paint my house every other year with stucco.

Max used to hide the Moving to Mn threads, so they didn’t appear on the front page, and the only way people found them was through the recent comments section, or by clicking on the MovingtoMN category. I liked that.

Our Minneapolis ladies are the paragon of human hotness, and I demand a retraction.

Sorry, my wife’s from St. Paul. So I’m required to say St. Paul women are hotter. (Be very careful, lest I am forced to bop you on the nose next time I see you!)
It also happens to be true, esp. around Grand Ave and the St. Paul corridor of small colleges…

I’d like to see the per capita breakdowns of St. Paul Central and Mpls SW grads at top colleges. Somehow, I think they’re pretty much the same and SW could possibly be better.

Just for the record, I went to St. Paul Central, went to a cool college and my St. Paul wife is hot.

Glad that’s cleared up.

Also, if you want to move to the Twin Cities, move to Minneapolis as while St. Paul is plenty nice, it is pretty boring. Although, the Bulldog is opening up an outpost in Lowertown.

And I went to private school, went to a good college and have a feeling that I’m going to die alone.

Just for the record.

There’s no excuse for moving to St. Paul.

None.

Understood, arthappy. And a very lovely woman your wife is.

St. Paul girls are delightful, you’re right. The way they bring you meatloaf, cases of Guinness and Husker Du LPs to your crappy walk-up apartment in South Minneapolis and talk about the great college they attended — sigh!

But I just had to stand up for Minneapolis ladies.

There’s no excuse for moving to St. Paul.

Unless you work there and are goddamned tired of the 45 minute commute back to Minneapolis during rush hour.

Of course, that would imply your job is worth the move, and the condo association you wind up joining doesn’t suck the last drop of life from your veins.

Seriously though, I love living in St Paul. I don’t know if it’s cheaper than Minneapolis in terms of rent, but it is more expensive in terms of insurance; car and homeowners/renters. But we have The Strip Club.

derusha- I agree. And when people want to post these, Max can just direct them to the 50 other identical threads we have already had.

Isn’t St. Paul where all the women are strong, all the men are good looking, and all the children are above average? Oh, wait…that’s Lake Wobegon! Just kidding!! I couldn’t resist throwing that in after the comments about the women in St. Paul and the men in Minneapolis! I seem to be getting a useful profile of the two cities. I am reading the “Relocation Guide to Minneapolis-St. Paul” currently, as I steam about my current city’s mayor proposing to cut the funding to the arts, in favor of more funding for police, sports, etc. I won’t say which political party he’s a member of. I’m sure most of you have a pretty good guess. He has a majority on the council, which will likely rubber-stamp whatever he wants.

Isn’t St. Paul where all the women are strong, all the men are good looking, and all the children are above average?

I too lived in Indiana for a few years – Indpls is a whole lot better than when I left, but when we go back to visit we always wonder if it was always as redneck as it appears to us now.

Depending on your age, the suggestions of: Mpls – Uptown and surrounding neighborhoods; St. Paul: Cathedral Hill/Grand Ave/MacGroveland are safe but diverse places; good places to start.

Do get to know people who are not native MN. The folks born here all have lots of family and old friends and never seem to make room for new members of their circle. Folks won’t invite you over for dinner or to just porch sit and you might get lonely if you are not outgoing and patient, but you’ll never feel like a progressive fish out of water. This is the land of 10,000 bumper stickers and WWWellstoneDo.

Do be prepared for housing sticker shock. That part of the cost of living is much higher here. Best of luck becoming one of the frozen chosen.

You could have just moved to Broad Ripple, you know. Or Bloomington.

What’s going on in Indiana? Is everyone leaving? Does that mean my family is going to move here?

folks born here all have lots of family and old friends and never seem to make room for new members of their circle.

Well, that’s pretty broad and mostly incorrect.

folks born here all have lots of family and old friends and never seem to make room for new members of their circle.

I wonder if at some point people who complain that they can’t make friends here should start looking at their own behavior and why they’re being avoided by the locals. It can’t all be our fault.

What good would an inner circle be if it’s full of people?

No good, that’s what.

Wait a minute Alie – you weren’t born here. How do you have any friends?

Miller, I shanghai them off of 1st Ave during bar close.

…actually, if you’re from the quad-state area, you’re pretty much in.

So I’m in a position to shun outsiders? Awesome.

Wait a minute Alie – you weren’t born here. How do you have any friends?

Must…resist…urge…to…make…joke…

I hate to get all complicated about this, but the fact is that there are different kinds of people everywhere. Some are reticent, some are open. Some are extroverted, some are introverted. Some like you, some don’t. I’ve lived in about 10 states and three foreign countries, and I can tell you that there’s all kinds of people in every place I’ve been, and any generalization is likely to be unfair.

Even this self-absorption, always talking about what makes us different, or what’s wrong with us, or what’s special about us–they do that everywhere.

I think it’s easier to generalize about people “from away,” wherever you are, even though they are all from different places. For example, I have never heard anyone from somewhere else speak favorably of the driving ability of the people in their new home. Drop a Minnesotan in Virginia, and they’ll say the people there drive like morons. Drop a Virginian in Minnesota, and he’ll say the same thing. Another favorite topic is how you just can’t get a ____ done right, where ____ is anything from a cup of coffee to a fried catfish.

The basic fact is that people from away, wherever they end up, like to bitch about wherever it is they chose to live, and point out all its faults, and feel entitled to more hospitality and kinship than they’ve been given. I owe this to the unrealized truth in our mobile culture that moving is hard, that it’s supposed to be hard, that it’s lonely and frightening. I think people would adjust a lot faster if they could just admit that they’re homesick and sad, and not blame their new home or its residents for not being better people. There’s nothing with being homesick. It’s normal. I know we all want to be cool and cosmopolitan and independent and autonomous and mobile, but we aren’t.

It’s tough for anyone, anywhere to break through a close-knit circle of friends. It doesn’t have anything to do with the homestate of those friends, and it doesn’t mean they’re completely unwilling to get to know you. Just because you’re not instantly invited over for dinner into someone’s home doesn’t mean they’re uninterested in being friends.

Nobody is guaranteed instant close-knit frendship wherever they go; it has to be earned. If you’re not willing to put yourself out there you will be slow to making friends, but that’s how it is anywhere. It doesn’t help when you remind your new neighbors how unfriendly they all are.

I also think it’s kind of a cop out to blame the fact that you’re having a tough time making friends in a city based solely on the character of it’s residents.

YEAH! BECAUSE WE’RE EASY GOING AND GODDAMN FRIEDNLY, OKAY????

…actually, if you’re from the quad-state area, you’re pretty much in.

Nobody told me that.

But then, what’s new.

Not so good with spelling, but every region has its weaknesses.

I actually don’t live very far from Broad Ripple, but still “a world away” as one might say. Broad Ripple is relatively progressive, but not to the extent of the TC. Bloomington is also relatively progressive by Indiana standards, but it’s no Madison. I do love Madison, but it’s smaller than I would prefer.

Yes, most areas of Indianapolis are pretty redneck, compared to Minnesota. There are a few designated “cultural districts” of which Broad Ripple is one, but the rest of the city seems to be content with living in the Dark Ages. They don’t believe in supporting mass transit, for one thing. There is a bus system, of sorts, but the people whine and moan that they have to pay taxes for services they don’t use. They also whine about not having a decent bus system, about “overpaid” government employees, and their “high” taxes, which are considerably lower than most cities in the Midwest.

This is probably another loaded question, but which city as the “better” daily newspaper?

HA!

“Better” in the sense of “less geared towards reactionary hicks reading on a third-grade level”?

Oh, crud, there I go, acting like an elitist again. My wife is going to kill me.

Ah, sounds like the paper here…

This is probably another loaded question, but which city as
the “better” daily newspaper?

Neither. Next Question.

Just Joshin’ — sort of. Read both for yourself (Minneapolis Star Tribune and St. Paul Pioneer Press) to find out which one appeals to you.

Well the PiPress has the Bulletin Board. Nothing can top that. Nothing!

WARNING! CUTE STORY ALERT!
Grandpa: Hey, junior junior, let’s go to the park.
Grandson: Jesus hates puppies.

CLASSIC.

There is a bus system, of sorts, but the people whine and moan that they have to pay taxes for services they don’t use. They also whine about not having a decent bus system, about “overpaid” government employees, and their “high” taxes, …

You obviously haven’t spent much time around here.

Minnesota was once summed up by a professor that grew up in Chicago. Minnesotans are smug. They seem to have an inflated view of themselves. Most of the people who live in the “big city” are from a farming community or small town from the out state Iowa or the Dakotas that think they have somehow arrived. Most of the people who grew up here do have a group of friends and family that they interact with and do not want take the time to meet other people, time is limited so why bother. Most of us that grew up here are for the most part educated and that probably contributes to our collective arrogance. We pretend to be so “diverse” but many people just want to say they have a minority friend to all of their white friends. We will be nice to your face but will completely cut you down behind your back. we are fat. If you like fat people move to Minnesota the winters are brutal on the ass and gut we try in the spring to walk,their is this moronic walk women do in these sweat pants that are to small. Politically we have very canned liberals and conservatives. Liberals have diverse friends, bike and pretend they are not complete hypocrites. Conservatives go to church every Sunday work at one of our fortune 500 companies and pretend that they are not arrogant. Finally kids are all that matters to many of the residents, if it is for the kids then it is good. People with the little ones actually believe that their kids are above average and are entitled to anything. good luck with it.

This smug Minnesotan thinks your professor just summed up Americans in general.

Was any of that on the test?

Test!? Dang, does that mean I have to move?

I’m with Bix on this. Like Illinois is different, or Michigan, or New Jersey… As an outsider, I haven’t found any of that to be the case here in Minnesota. Your mileage may vary. (I’m totally acing this test!)

Ok, so what are ya’ll saying behind my back? And I thought we were such tight met-twice-in-dark-bar friends – phooey!

I’m so sitting by DouglasG during the test. Yup, I’m a cheater.
I’m saving up my s-m-r-t-s for my canned political viewpoints.

I’m totally ratting you out Cat if they ask me why our answers are so similar!

Does anyone have an extra #2 pencil?