Secrets of the City

Looks like Myers both answered Maz’s question and took Rat’s challenge.

The Valleyfair thing is interesting. Some of the comments at the Strib say things like, “see this is what happens when newspapers don’t report the news, we jump to conclusions, they should report the race of all victims.”

They didn’t report the race of the attackers, just their names and pictures. They didn’t report anything about the victim because they were protecting his identity, as requested.

And even if the guy was white, how was it a hate crime anyhow?

Yeah, I don’t see what the victim’s race had to do with the fact that he was nearly kicked to death. People are dumb.

Oh, and Myers is starting to come off as a spoiled teenager with an authority complex.

and took Rat’s challenge.

I guess.

This guy is starting to look to me like a really sad case.

I think protected classes comes into play re: criteria is for hate crimes.

And the police decided to release the race of the victim in response to the flood of e-mails and phone calls they were getting from people who were outraged that more wasn’t being done about the black kids beatdown of a “white” guy.

Ahh… Strib comments never fail.

I am incensed and outraged that Professors have the right to ideas independent of the University. There ought to be a law.

I was waiting for the punch line, but dude’s serious. Scary.

Actually, I assumed that the guy getting the beating wasn’t white. I figured it was a black guy. For reals, I did.

And even if the guy was white, how was it a hate crime anyhow?
haha, Jason Lewis, you are an idiot, again.

Sometimes I think hate crimes are sort of bogus. I mean, if the victim would have been white, or the attackers had been white and the victim black, why should the punsihment be more severe just becasue the color of their skin? Isn’t that sort of fostering division?
A guy got beat down trying to stand up for his daughter. The punishment should really be the same no matter which races were involved, shouldn’t it?
Sickening story.

I actually think hate crime laws are stupid and a violation of free speech. If you committed a crime during your hating, then you should be punished regardless of motives. If the crime itself was especially brutal or egregious, then the sentencing should reflect that. Premeditated crime vs. in the heat of the moment crime should be held to different standards in any case, regardless of the “hate” involved.

I thought the same thing, Bix.

And that’s the tricky part, Baker. I disagree that the punishment fosters division, if indeed (insert race of choice here) beat up another person based on their (insert different race of choice here), the division is already in place.

We already punish people based on intent. Could a case be made that punishing someone more for premeditation is violating their freedom of speech?

I just read the story about the woman whose boyfriend beat her up. Pretty horrifying.

Also disturbing is that the Strib printed her name. I thought they didn’t print the names of rape/domestic violence victims.

If a drunk Vikings fan beats up a Packers fan at a game, could that be considered a hate crime?

No, but if a cellist beat up an accordion player, I think a case could be made.

Why are hate crimes so difficult for people to understand and accept? A hate crime is a crime which is motivated, in whole or in part, by a bias based on race, religion, sexuality, disability, gender or color. It doesn’t make the crime more important or more outrageous. It’s just a factor.

We clearly define other factors and define crimes in terms of degrees. Premeditation, crimes of passion, random violence, all of these are tools in evaluating a proper punishment for a crime.

Whites can be victims of hate crimes. Had the victim here been white, it could have been possible that in some point the alleged perpetrator targeted them because they were white. While this would have been unlikely (as in, why this white family and not the other many white families around them), it could have been possible. And this exactly why hate crime legislation exists. And this is a good thing.

There’s plenty of outrage to go around in this scenario  if a family, any color, has to worry about getting their head stomped in at Valleyfair, we have a problem. But as long as race-baiting gets liberals to talk out of both sides of their mouths, this kind of “debate” will rage on.

@Spar-b-q

I see punishing for intent and premeditation as the same thing.

No, but if a cellist beat up an accordion player, I think a case could be made.

Wait, was that comment meant for the other thread?

But then what constitutes “freedom of speech?” I guess I see spewing crap differently than taking it to the next level of a physical beatdown.

I think everyone is free to hate anyone they want as long as they don’t act on it. But I don’t think that acting on your hate should carry more of a punishment because of who you hate. Why you hate them would already be taken care of under mitigating circumstances.

neither premeditation or intent are motive– with is what hate crimes are addressing.

If someone is capable of that kind of a hate crime, they’re capable of just “plain” crime. Should it matter that you beat someone half to death because they were gay/black/whatever, or should it just matter that you’re capable of beating someone half to death?

Poor Bud Jr must be crying his widdle eyes out over the Valleyfair news…

It will be interesting to see how quickly goes away now that the race of the victims is known. Ron Rosenbaum said on the radio it was going to be Dru Sjodeen part 2 but I seriously doubt anything will be done to change the assault laws now.

But if the victims were white…

[holy crap, they are learning]

No, but if a cellist beat up an accordion player, I think a case could be made.

There’s a term for this in statute, it’s called “doing society a favor.”

Look it up.

[holy crap, they are learning]

I know! Contrary to the evidence presented by your presence in a thread, people are capable of learning things!

[and they're learning subconsciously!]

I think that the outrage at the attack without knowing the race of the victim was evidence enough of people are simply fatigued and don’t give a shit what color the victim was. Every source I heard/read didn’t make any claims to race.

@raindog66
I heard some of that this morning… we can only hope against hope that St. Paul will strengthen penalties. I’ve lost most hope in St. Paul. Hate to be the pessimist! (spelling)

Jason lewis and the rest of the talk radio dumb dumbs just speak about these things to distract up from the real issues like john mccain’s ties to organized crime and how obama is going to lead us into an endless war with iran.

Obama ain’t leading “us” anywhere, pal.

Berfus, you’re back! Care to back up your statements with some sort of proof?

The media didn’t hesitate to suggest Obama had links to organized crime or that McCain wanted an endless war in Iraq. I think Berfus is messing with us.

Berfus make joke. No one get Berfus joke.

Berfus want to kill. Berfus tell joke. Berfus joke no kill. Berfus mad. Berfus smash!

John mccain’s wife (formerly his mistress) is the daughter of jim hensley, a man whe was a hench man for kemper marley, a big shot political boss and head of the arizona branch of the meyer lansky crime syndicate. There were the elements that funded mccain’s rise to power.

Myer Lanksy was a visionary mobster.

We’re bigger than U. S. Steel!

So yeah that’s mccain’s ties to the mob. You’ll never read that in the controlled media. And don’t place your hope in obama either. Think for yourself.

Okay, I’ll never read about these mob ties in the controled MSM. So, I guess my question is this which issue of Tinfoil Hat Monthly can I read about it in?

Also, I always knew there was something sinister about “Good Question”. Derusha refusing to tell us why we park in driveways and drive on parkways has *got* to be a govt conspiracy!

Intrigued by all things mafia, I did some googling and it is true. McCain’s father-in-law (father-out-law? hahahahahaha) had ties to guys involved with organized crime. That being said, I have a hard time believing the mafia is putting McCain into the White House. I mean, haven’t all the unions endorsed the Obamessiah?

That’s nothin. Google “obama real estate scandal” and you get 1.22 million hits.

Google “McCain Mafia” and you get 2.12 Million Hits.

Google “Racist Republican” you get 5.05 Million Hits.

Google “Tax and Spend Republican” you get 2.14 Million Hits.

Google “Blah Blah Blah” you get 13.1 Million Hits.

Game.

Set.

Match.

Mccain and obama and coleman and franken are all as crooked as the hind leg of a dog. I say stay home on the first tuesday in november.

google “raindog pwns maz” and you get 9 hits.

If for no other reason than to derail the tired old abortion debate, some other local news:

MinnPost expands.
Obama inhales (smoke)
Another local bridge falls down

All else being equal, I’d vote for Neo just because he’s a smoker. Laura Bush is also a smoker, so are a surprising number of pro golfers. TV has become pretty good at not showing guys when they’ve got a cigarette lit up on the course, which is why it’s surprising to see how many of them actually do smoke.

TV: All lies.

TV: All lies

True, it does lack the moral purity and ethical foundation of American politics.

Got that right.

I was not aware that McCain’s wife holds a significant share in Anheuser Busch. Why did we hear endless rantings about Kerry’s wifes ties to the Heinz fortune but have heard nothing about all this beer money?

I’ve seen pictures of John Daly practice putting with one hand on the club and holding a cigarette in the other. Not sure if he practiced that way, or if he just didn’t want to put down his cigarette.

Why did we hear endless rantings about Kerry’s wifes ties to the Heinz fortune but have heard nothing about all this beer money?

You have to keep up. It’s been a pretty steady news topic.

Hmm…I read Drudge every day. Haven’t seen a thing.

I was not aware that McCain’s wife holds a significant share in Anheuser Busch. Why did we hear endless rantings about Kerry’s wifes ties to the Heinz fortune but have heard nothing about all this beer money?

Because catsup in controversial?

It was kind of unavoidable, what with her name being Heinz and all. And correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t Mrs. McCain’s fortune come from a distributor, not A-B? And who drinks that European sh*t anyway? People who hate America, that’s who.

Because catsup in controversial?

Let’s talk about hot dogs.

The only condiment that belongs on hot dogs is mustard. Catsup is for burgers and fries.

And correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t Mrs. McCain’s fortune come from a distributor, not A-B?

That is correct.

beer trafficers!

The only condiment that belongs on hot dogs is mustard. Catsup is for burgers and fries.

That’s utter bullsh*t. Easily the most foolish thing I’ll read online today.

The only condiment that belongs on hot dogs is mustard. Catsup is for burgers and fries.

In Canada they seem to like mayo on their hot dogs. Strange.

That’s utter bullsh*t. Easily the most foolish thing I’ll read online today.

I don’t make the rules, Kevin, that’s just the way it is.

In Canada they seem to like mayo on their hot dogs. Strange.

Yeah, with all their national health coverage, they can afford to be careless with their arteries. Poutine, anyone?

I always thought it was ketchup. And call me a heathen as I like my dogs with everything.

Both are accepted spellings, as far as I know. Like I said, ketchup is controversial.

And correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t Mrs. McCain’s fortune come from a distributor, not A-B?
Freeking three tier system of alcohol distribution is the most monopolistic piece of garbage ever. Ironic that the chosen one of the party of lip service to the sacred free market is funded by such an anti-market concern.

I think you should be able to eat a hot dog with either ketchup or mustard depending upon the mood you’re in that day.

I don’t normally eat a hot dog with brown or Dijon mustard, though.

But I only eat about six hot dogs a year.

Assets held by Cindy McCain alone or with her children also include Anheuser-Busch stock;

Mrs. McCains company owns between $2.5 million to $5 million in Anheuser stock, meaning it will earn $800,000 to $1.6 million premium on the pre-deal stock price.

Alie is right and wrong. She’s right that tomato catsup, or ketchup, has no business on a hot dog. She’s wrong that only mustard belongs on a hot dog though. Hotdogs want and deserve relish, sports peppers, diced onions, and even, in extraordinary cases, chili. She’s also wrong — supremely wrong — that ketchup should be put on burgers. The fact is that only philistines ever ever put ketchup on any kind of meat. And to justify this argument, I need only point out that the secon ingredient in most ketchup is corn syrup. Sweet stuff numbs the tastebuds to the actual taste of meat. If you put ketchup on a good beef frankfurter or a hamburger, you’re not tasting meat, or even tomato. You’re just tasting corn syrup. That’s why kids love it. They’re sugar junkies. Grown-ups who haven’t entered into that curious live-like-flies-on-sugat phase of post-humanity don’t need to drown everything they eat in sugar.

Some restaurants have homemade ketchup though, and homemade ketchup can be not sweet and therefor OK on meat. Hell’s Kitchen for example has good homemade ketchup.

I believe La Belle Vie makes its own ketchup too.

Every few years I gotta have a chili cheese dog. In fact, I’m about due.

Otherwise, give me some genuine Nurnberg bratwurst with sauerkraut and brown mustard.

If I had such a thing, Jane, there’s no way I’m giving it away!

Well, considering I don’t like ketchup on anything, Kurtis, I don’t mind you calling me out on that point. I prefer mayo on my burgers like the Canadians.

Dang, who knew that condiments were so controversial?

Mama tomato, Baby tomato and Papa tomato were walking down the street. Baby tomato kept lagging behind and slowed them down.
Papa tomato tried to keep Baby tomato on pace, but Baby tomato wouldn’t listen. Finally, Papa tomato walks back, stomps on Baby tomato and yells: “Ketch – up.”

Thanks so much, I’m here all week.

@jane you can get a chili cheese dog at Walkin’ Dog in the Northstar Center.

Dang, who knew that condiments were so controversial?

I posit because the beginning of the word starts with “cond-”, making the religious right nervous that ketchup, mustard, relish, and mayo are secret marketing ploys to entice teens into having sex.

@jane, I can personally recommend the chili cheese dog at Connie’s Creamy Cone in Saint Paul.

Dang, now I want one!

Dang, who knew that condiments were so controversial?

It’s not. We’re talking about hot dogs, brats. It’s grunt food.

Put whatever you want on them

Make your own ketchup, mustard and mayo. Do it once or twice, and you will never want the store bought except for nostalgia purposes. Also get a cuisinart, then mayo takes two minutes or less to make.

Kurtis certainly sounds like a lot of fun at BBQs

It’s not. We’re talking about hot dogs, brats. It’s grunt food.

Actually, I was talking about condiments…

Wait a dang minute. No one has the right to tell me what to do with my taste buds. You can’t force them to not use ketchup on a hot dog, or hamburger for that matter. Regardless of how you may see it.

They have the freedom to make condiment choices as they see fit.

Hee!

If you have put so much catsup or ketchup on anything to the point “the anything” cannot be tasted, then you are using it wrong…unless of course “the anything” is Teucer’s mom.

Hamburgers vary in quality so much so that in some instances ketchup, hot sauce and mayonaise might not be a bad idea. Those pre-formed patties your neighbors always seem to buy for backyard parties for instance, make a good case for 1. a very excessive amount of condiments and 2. not spending all day smoking a pork shoulder for their cheap lazy arses.

Kurtis certainly sounds like a lot of fun at BBQs

For some reason I’m not invited to many….

Heinz makes organic ketchup without corn syrup. Very good.