Secrets of the City

Maz has an opportunity to redeem himself and make a sensible comment on the MPR link without flamebait or trolling. Please surprise me, Dennis.

MNspeak should have a thinkoff: MNspeak was better when rex was here, yes or no?

I thought that it was a fact that MNSpeak was better when Rex was here.

I prefer a MNSpeak dance-off. I would like to see Max pop, lock and drop it (but not like it’s hot).

You’ve already seen that!

I’ve only seen you pop and lock. There was no dropping!

I can’t do that without my parachute pants.

Re: Mosquitoes story

No shit. I’m completely eaten up after a weekend of camping. I’m itching like crazy. My poor dog sat in the car for hours waiting for us to leave because he just got terrorized by them.

We gave up on summertime camping for same reason, kc. Now we just camp in early spring or after first frost.

We went camping last week and my poor dog’s nose was twice the size from the mosquito bites.

They’re even bad in my back yard. It doesn’t help that there is always standing water in the street gutter. I wonder if the city would redo the gutter for that.

Last weekend in the woods, I put on the lightest “kiddie” bug spray and got no bites. A couple people got a few bites, and one friend was mauled by mosquitos. He had on bug spray already, but after all the bites, I shellacked him in bug spray and they left him alone.

I’ve heard that one of the B vitamins, thiamine, wards off mosquitos. It so happens I take a ton of B vitamins, and was wearing no perfumed anything, so maybe that’s why I was spared.

In my experience, the B1 or garlic as mosquito “repellent” relies on one factor, that other members of the party do not use it. It seems that it makes you smell bad to mosquitoes. However if everyone smells equally bad they will take everyone who is available. However, if you are the only one that smells bad, then they will avoid you. (Don’t tell anyone, but that is my BWCAW trick)

I talked to my parents last night, who have a cabin “up north” and they said they don’t have many mosquitoes. Clearly there are areas that are worse than others.

I’ve used Permethrin based products on the yard in past years to control the mosquitos. It seems to do a fairly good job and it’s one of the least toxic things you can use since its derived from Marigolds. You just cut the grass then coat the lawn with the spray. Voila! Few if any mosquitos in the yard.

Nature has provided a solution to the mosquito problem. Meet your best friend.

I think the new Miss Minnesota is going to find the frumpy overbite section very lonely when she attends the Miss America contest.

Oh, meow, LiH!

All those women have nothing but love and encouragement for each other.

Winning means nothing.

The Rat brings on the funny!

How max missed this story from Jason’s Station, I’ll never know…

I think if you stop to use a restroom, you should have to drop out.

There’s no stopping or resting in a marathon. You stop, you’re done.

However if everyone smells equally bad they will take everyone who is available. However, if you are the only one that smells bad, then they will avoid you.

sounds like my college dating experience. I hung out with dirtbags so that the ladies would gravitate to me.

I hung out with dirtbags and all the women loved them.

Tru dat, Rat. Phidippides didn’t stop at any stinking pora-potties, either.

Of course, that’s what killed him.

I think he stopped for a cigarette.

Well, now we know what killed him…

There’s no stopping or resting in a marathon. You stop, you’re done.

only if you’re a shark.

There’s no stopping or resting in a marathon. You stop, you’re done.

Yeah, that doesn’t make any sense. People have won major marathons while taking bathroom breaks along the way. I watched Blake Russell stop and stretch multiple times along Summit Ave. while winning Twin Cities Marathon a few years ago. Does that count as resting?

Yes.

There’s no stopping or resting in a marathon. You stop, you’re done.

A marathon isn’t The Long Walk.

I know you’re trying to be all hard-core, Mr. Rat. But it just doesn’t work like that. Some very tough people have to stop during races, for all kinds of reasons. The best of them come out of the port-a-potty at full stride.

Re:State Bird

I have been shocked by the number of mosquitos this year, but even more so by their size. They are fraekin’ huge already.

With a full bladder and about 50,000 bounces up and down to go, I’m quite certain the urge to pee isn’t some little nic fit.

Speaking of inevitability and things that get the bladder in motion, you’d think all this mosquito-enabling rain and not-hot weather would keep the grassin good shape, but so far I’ve seen two lawns getting watered on the way home.

That’s why they call it a marathon, champs. You shouldn’t get to unbuckle and take a comfort break when you reach cruising altitude. Pee before you run.

If it’s too tough, there’s always Race for the Cure.

That’s why they call it a marathon? Because you don’t stop to pee? I don’t think you actually believe that Mr. Rat. If so, you need to do a little research on teh internets.

It seems as though you think that the marathon is the “one true test of human endurance” and anyone who is serious should be able to “gut it out” and “dig deep within their suitcase of courage” to “get the job done.”

Sorry pal. It’s just another distance. Sometimes people need to take a pit stop. Then they get back into it. And they’re still just as tough as you.

In the words of Barney Stinson, this is how you run a marathon:

Step 1: Start running. There is no Step 2.

Anyone remember the Marathon bar?

Now that was twisted caramel.

Sorry pal. It’s just another distance.

If that’s all it is then: GO THE DISTANCE!

I think Uta Pippig would agree with The Rat.

Trust me, I’ve done it. And there have been times where I had to stop during the race. To use the bathroom, or to stretch by the side of the road. But the clock kept running. So I was still racing.

Are you ready to tell me that those performances shouldn’t count?

That’s exactly what I’m telling you.

I don’t understand the world today.

What do you mean “today”? Are you saying people didn’t stop during marathons in the “old days”? Let me know when you think the marathon was pure.

If you can live with dumbing down a marathon, don’t let me bother you.

I’m a simple guy.

I think the rat is just messing with our brain bananas.

I get what you’re trying to say. The marathon has changed. It’s not just a footrace anymore. It’s become a “festival of running”, where everyone gets a medal and we’re all champions. There’s no focus on performance, just participation.

But that’s not what you said. Your initial comment,
“I think if you stop to use a restroom, you should have to drop out.
There’s no stopping or resting in a marathon. You stop, you’re done.”
showed that you don’t have any idea what you’re talking about. And it’s been downhill from there.

No, I’ve done athlete training all my life. I’m not in the right condition to run a marathon. But if I were, I wouldn’t consider running one if I thought I couldn’t finish before I had to stop to pee. What’re we talking here, three plus hours?

What does conditioning have to do with whether someone needs to take a bathroom break during a marathon?

That’s been your point this whole time? That if you are out there for so long that you need to use the bathroom, then you must not be in shape?

Greatest. Footrace. Ever.

He ran on borrowed shoes because at the last minute his jerk of a coach gave his shoes to another runner on the team, figuring Mills wouldn’t do much in the race anyway.

I started long distance running after this and continued for almost 25 years.

I never stopped to pee.

You obviously understand my point.

Why does the criteria for finishing a marathon have to change?

There’s no focus on performance,

I prefer clarity over agreement, and this is about as clear as it gets.

On a related note, has anyone ever seen Tokyo Olympiad, by Kon Ichikawa? It’s about the 1964 Tokyo Olympics and as a documentary is just stunning. The final part of the film is mostly spent on the marathon… I highly recommend this film for documentary fans, and for anyone who has ever been a long-distance runner.

First, world-class marathoners piss and poo on themselves while running all the time. It’s either stop and pee, get dehydrated and don’t pee, or stay hydrated and wet your pants and stay hydrated and win. Often, that’s not mud on a marathon champions legs.

Second, how do you dumb down the sport of marathoning by allowing other people who aren’t world class to compete? There is still a tiered system where world class athletes compete with each other. And people who are not even world class are competing too – check out the USATF rankings in various categories. Just because you aren’t good enough to be separated from the common folk running in a large city marathon or haven’t become as USATF member so that your races/times matter doesn’t mean that the sport is being dumbed down. There is still a focus on competition. In fact, I’d argue that more people running races has actually made the sport more competitve.

That argument is like suggesting that the Special Olympics has dumbed down the regular/Para Olympics. Oh man, what *wouldn’t* Marion Jones do for a partipation medal and a t-shirt commemorating her participation in the Olympic festivities?

Second, how do you dumb down the sport of marathoning by allowing other people who aren’t world class to compete?

I’m not. I don’t know why this is hard to understand.

I’m just saying: Run the distance. If you want to run the marathon, run the marathon.

It’s not an excursion that you finish at your convenience. It’s supposed to be grueling and uncomfortable.

Maz – agreed. Mills was one of the all-time greats.

Jane – I’ve heard of it, but never seen it. Sounds great.

Bix – I agree with you for the most part. I was just trying to understand Rat’s argument. And elite marathoners don’t poop on themselves all that often. When they do, it’s usually because there is so much money on the line that it’s worth the embarassment.

Rat – When did the criteria for finishing a marathon include doing it without stopping? The criteria has always been running from point A to point B, while following the prescribed course. You’re adding extra criteria where none is needed.

When I said they poo on themselves all the time, I meant that it most certainly is not unheard of and I know of several instances.
I didn’t mean that it is a regular occurence.

@Rat
Srsly?

Look, it’s not like marathons/triathalons go on forever and someone running it can stop at a cafe, have lunch, run some errands and come back and finish. The courses do close at some point.

Your finish the damn race regardless philosophy reminds me of someone who is in mixed martial arts deciding to get his arm broken instead of tapping out. A sign of a good athlete is not just the ability to work through the pain, it’s the ability to know when to stop. Additionally, MMA fighters understand getting hit is painful and comes with the sport, yet they still allow a timeout when someone accidentally gets hit in the balls. Just because you’re doing things right, doesn’t mean that shit you didn’t plan for can’t be allowed to slow you down.

Also, considering how unhealthy Americans are (check this week’s cover of time), I’m not going to fault anyone who gets off their ass and tries to run further than to their car.

The thing is, The Rat doesn’t seem to know that much about the marathon. And he’s obviously never completed the distance himself. But he knows how a marathon should be run, because he’s “done athletic training” all his life. So, that makes him the arbiter of righteous competition for all sports.

Makes one wonder if the Rat has spent one too many days in the boxing ring.

Dude… runners pee all over the place in marathons!

Makes one wonder if the Rat has spent one too many days in the boxing ring.

Thanks for the snarky personal shot. You seem to do that a lot.

So, that makes him the arbiter of righteous competition for all sports.

As much as anyone else.

Thanks for the snarky personal shot. You seem to do that a lot.

A lot? I doubt it. It’s not like you haven’t made your own either.

As much as anyone else.

Not really Rat. Generally the people who determine the rules of competition have some actual knowledge of the sport in question. In this case, your opinion doesn’t count for much.

Rat has portrayed the problem with Internet discussions to a T in this thread. Everyone’s opinion does not count. In an actual face to face discussion he would have shut up long ago because of how stupid his argument is. That or after the discussion no one would ever talk to him again. The internet lets uninformed fools trot out opinions that wouldn’t stand up to the light of day but for some reason we have to consider that they are valid. Tosh! It’s bullshit and you know it. Fess up coward!

Why must we suffer fools!

Now comes the namecalling.

Oh and historical precedent of stopping during a marathon.

From the original story of the run preceeding the battle of Marathon.

Swift-footed he went up Aforesmos and down towards the village. As women saw him, they ran towards him:

They wanted to ask what happened in the battle. He stopped a moment to catch his breath and then took the road again.

Finally he reaches Psychiko. There he was almost near death , his feet were shaking, he felt like falling down. But he composed himself, took a deep breath, continued and finally reached Athens.

If the orignial runner of the marathon can stop, not only once but twice, to catch his breath I don’t see why see why anyone else doesn’t have the option.

There is opinion and informed opinion. One of these while highly popular on the interwebs does not make for enlightened discussions.

I don’t think Olympic marathoners stop.

I believe the key words are “don’t think” in that sentence.
Seems to be a recurring theme in your comments.

If the orignial runner of the marathon can stop, not only once but twice, to catch his breath I don’t see why see why anyone else doesn’t have the option.

He obviously didn’t train properly. He did drop dead after all. I agree with Rat’s point that anyone who would have to stop and go to the bathroom during a 3-hour race either didn’t plan properly (your mother always warned you to go before you leave) or is an amateur just out for the fun of the experience with no real intention of seriously competing.

There’s a distinction between competitive runners (I was one) and people who run the marathon so they can get their name in the paper on line 812 of the finishers’ column.

Not because of any rules though. Only because at that level, you need any potential advantage over your competitor you can gain.

Do you hold this same belief in purity to auto racing? NASCAR, Indy, F1, etc. should ban pit stops, and only be as far as they can go on a single tank of fuel?

He obviously didn’t train properly. He did drop dead after all. I agree with Rat’s point that anyone who would have to stop and go to the bathroom during a 3-hour race either didn’t plan properly (your mother always warned you to go before you leave) or is an amateur just out for the fun of the experience with no real intention of seriously competing.

Oh, please. You can’t physiologically ingest the necessary fluid to avoid dehydration during a marathon and not have to go. If you did, you’re likely going to suffer from bladder infections, if not kidney failure.

And see comments above by bix, for one.

They have the same problem during races like the Tour de France, and the entire peleton either stops as soon as they leave the latest town, and they go en masse (I’ve got a great picture from Velo News), or they piss their shorts.

Here’s one for you Rat:
Boston Marathon, 1975 – Bill Rogers captures his first Boston Marathon title, while stopping 5 times. His time was 2:09:55. A world record at that time.
(Incidentally, our own Steve Hoag of Minneapolis was second in 2:11:54).

This is my point. It doesn’t matter if you stop. The clock keeps running. He went from the starting line to the finish line in under two hours and ten minutes. That’s what matters.

Maz obviously doesn’t grasp the idea of Personal Best.
Competing against yourself to see how much you improve.

How defeatist is it to say if you can’t complete with the best in the world you should just stay home. What a shitty way to think about life.

If you like to play tennis should it be called something else because you aren’t playing at the professional level?

I would guess that the automobile races would have shortened, because the gas in the tank will only take the car so far. We’d have an Indy 250.

And the car isn’t the athlete, it’s the driver. And the pit crew and and sponsors would be pretty upset if he pulled into the pit in order to pee.

So, let me get this straight. If you trip and fall down, and therefore stop running, you are automatically disqualified. You cannot finish. You have to stop. Excellent idea! Perhaps someone hasn’t fully thought this through? Nah, it must be something else.

They don’t use gas at the Indy 500 anymore, Rat. Those cars run on pure ethanol (E100).

They already have a 250 for Indy cars. It’s this weekend, in Newton, Iowa. Those poor folks need something to cheer about!

We’d have an Indy 250

NOt even that. Indy cars make a pit stop every 100 miles or so, for both fuel and tire reasons.

It’s fairly obvious that The Rat has passed over into full Troll mode.

“The Rat, The Rat…please report immediately under the nearest overpass and start glowering”

Clearly you all are not familiar with Paula Radcliffe, owner of 10 distance running world records, including the marathon record for women. She has won a half dozen major marathons (London, New York among others). She is particularly famous for one incident in the 2005 London Marathon, which she won is time of 2:17 only a couple of minutes of her own world record. I will let her wikipedia entry tell the story. There is youtube, but you’ll have to work for that. She crossed the finish line first, pit stop and all, and I’ll be damned if they didn’t giver her the gold medal.

“At the 2005 London Marathon she won with a time of 2:17:42, a world’s best time for a women’s only race by over a minute. The race however is remembered more for a notorious moment towards the end when Radcliffe, feeling hindered by bowel discomfort and in need for a toilet break, stopped and defecated on the side of the road in view of the crowd and TV cameras which broadcast the incident live[22]. After the race she apologised to viewers and explained what happened, “I was losing time because I was having stomach cramps and I thought ‘I just need to go and I’ll be fine’. I didnt really want to resort to that in front of hundreds of thousands of people.[23] Basically I needed to go. I started feeling it between 15 and 16 miles (26 km) and probably carried on too long before stopping. I must have eaten too much beforehand”.”

Now comes the namecalling.

Can you carry on a civil discussion with people you might disagree with Simpleton without falling back on childish names?

Grow up.

I predict Rat would win in :30 of the first round over any of youse.

“I must have eaten too much beforehand.”

Bad planning.

I’m game for that challenge. I’d even move down a weight class just to make it fair.

I think Rat makes some valid points in this thread. The locals are just up in arms becuase he’s clearly trying to be dickish. Maybe his car got jacked again.

Did they ever use “gas?”

The switch was from methanol to ethanol. In fact, when they switched to ethanol, they also mandated a reduction in the the fuel cell size to 22 gallons, in order to keep the number of pit stops the same. Turns out they get better performance with ethanol, and drivers would drive beyond the safe life of the tires (about 100 miles).

OK! Here is it!

The Rat…You are belligerent and your world view is out of step with what people typically consider normal.

You seem like a truly unhappy person. I prescribe a walk in the sun and a stop at the pet store to pet some kitties and puppies.

“I must have eaten too much beforehand.”

Bad planning.

And yet, even on a bad day, she probably would have handed you (in your prime) your ass on the marathon course.

Maybe his car got jacked again.

I’m out $500 because a couple little pricks grew up playing too much Grand Thef Auto,

Here’s a clue: Navy runners got enemas before the race. At least I wouldn’t have looked like a fool pooping alongside the road.

Here’s a clue: Navy runners got enemas before the race
After the race they dress like construction workers and have a dance party.

It was 1965, mnblmkr. I remember some horrible, fire-filled crashes, including some that injured spectators, so they switched to a fuel they felt was safer.

One of my relatives competed in the Indianapolis 500 as a mechanic, back in the days when mechanics rode with the drivers.

I wouldn’t mind having this argument with The Rat if he seemed at all informed about the topic. But it became apparent early on that he’s just spouting off with no real knowledge of the sport.

Dennis – I believe that you were serious about your running. But I doubt that you were ever competitive in a racing situation. If you were, you’d understand that stopping to use the bathroom can get you to the finish line quicker. And that’s what it’s all about. If you don’t get that, you weren’t really racing.

At least I wouldn’t have looked like a fool pooping alongside the road.

So you are trying to make up for lost time by looking like a fool on Mnspeak?

The Rat is insisting on a marathon purity that doesn’t, and never has existed.

Interesting, bob. I guess I should have guessed that they used to use gasoline.

Miller has clarified the point I was trying to make. If you stop and take a dump and still cross the finish line first, you have won the race, period. You may be accurately accused of being a poor planer, but you are still the winner.

Planner, rather. Skills with block plane are of little relevance here.

I watch marathons FOR the pooping.

You may be accurately accused of being a poor planer, but you are still the winner.

And really, there’s nothing like a good run to shake out a poop. I don’t run, unless I’m being chased, but the running trick works with my dogs everytime.

Triathlons have much better and frequent pooping.
If that’s your thing.

This thread is disintegrating into the scatological.

And you you know what? — It’s not The Rat’s fault.

This thread went to shit much earlier than that, Ratty.

And really, there’s nothing like a good run to shake out a poop.

Alex, I’ll take a cigarette, cup of coffee and/or dodgy street cocaine FTW.

There is actual poo and intellectual poo.

The Rat is the King of Intellectual Poo!

I’m not sure you want to put on the crown though, it can get messy.
The scepter is encased in glass, so that might be fun for you to wield!

You forgot my other title: MNSpeaks Voice of Art.

Did someone say scat?

@Rat:

Simpleton, I don’t think The Rat is a troll, rather he’s the Debbie Downer of MNSpeak.

How do expect a guy to act when he has to start work after two weeks vacation?

Debbie Downer was just a cheap rip off of Doug and Wendy Whiner.

It does seem he lacks the traditional troll motivation.
It doesn’t seem that any glee is achieved, just a slow march to death.

This is for the Rat.

I’ve only had one day of vacation in the last 6 months other than official holidays and with how busy it is here at work I probably will only get about 2 or 3 days off for the rest of the summer.

JACC, me too! My saying is “Only run when chased.”

(or late for the bus)