Secrets of the City

Yikes! And I thought I got hate mail….

To clarify, Jeff was writting about an incident in Washington (the state), not his current gig at Cities Pages — which would not likely be doing stories about Port Townshend sports teams, in any case, other than this Daily Blotter item.

True.

Related somewhat to the other thread on high school t-shirts, my high school had an Indian mascot (the Warriors).

I see it also has a Wikipedia entry.

It’s ironic that an alleged journalist doesn’t seem to appreciate freedom of speech.

You are uniquely qualified to say something worthwhile on this topic, maz. Instead, you play the troll — and the fool.

Maz: FAIL.

More ironic than an alleged Native American who supports racist Indian nicknames snd people who make crazy violent threats?!?!?!??!

Only an anti-warrior leftist moron would consider the words “warrior” or “fighting sioux”to be racist terms.

I don’t want to live in a society where the government tells me what words I can and cannot use. Sorry if that offends you.

You know, the NCAA is not the government. The newspaper is not the government. Not wanting to report, or to play with, racist terminologies has no impact on freedom of speech. So go ahead and use racist terms all you want!

Where, in the articles are the City Pages, is the government telling anyone anything? The newspaper in Washington State was deciding for it self what it would and wouldn’t say, UND is being told to lose it’s mascot by a non-governmental organization to which it belongs. If they don’t like it they can always quit the NCAA.

The government’s got nothing to do with either situation, and therefore neither are “freedom of speech” issues.

But the NCAA is the government to intercollegiate athletic departments.

I am NOT a “leftist.”

Ok, sorry about that.

Maz

But the NCAA is the government to intercollegiate athletic departments

That’s really stupid. You understand that’s a dumb argument, right? They’re not telling you what to do. They’re telling their MEMBER SCHOOLS (who joined VOLUNTARILY) what to do, within the rule structure they all agreed to. Also, the NCAA doesn’t have a constitution, with ‘free speech’ rights. Finally, it sure looks like your point– if you have one– is that regardless of how the leftist pinko reporter came by that opinion, it was OK to give him a death threat. Is that really the side you’re defending in this?

I choose to think you’re just stupid, and not evil. But maybe I’m giving you too much credit.

I choose to think you’re both. But maybe I’m giving you too much credit.

The term he was specifcially addressing was “redskin.” The paper chose not to use the term and would address the school as the “The Port Townsend Team.”

How you got from this to not appreciating freedom of speech to government involvement to anti-warrior is beyond me.

And yet unsurpising.

I am requesting a free pass on grammar and spelling today.

I can’t believe Jeff was LOLDismembered and he’s not sharing the pic.

If I still had that pic, rest assured, I’d share. I kept it for years, and it got misplaced during one of the four or five moves I’ve done since then. After I got over the initial creepiness, it was a pretty funny thing to have.

I’m sure I’ll eventually run afoul of some enterprising photoshop artist, and a similar picture will end up online for posterity.

Give us a picture, Jeff, and we’ll produce a simulacrum.

From personal experience, I can still LOL when they threaten me with violence. When they threaten my family, that’s a whole other ball game.

I’m sure I’ll eventually run afoul of some enterprising photoshop artist, and a similar picture will end up online for posterity.

Paging Douglas G…you have a call on line 1.

Hey Maz — see you at the game tonight.
Fridley Fags vs. New Hope Niggers — I can’t wait!

NOTE: This message is a parody to demonstrate how ridiculous it is to defend racism as freedom of speech. Thank you.

Bob: I’m totally with you on that.

Max: like my man Mr. Lif says, “I look like everybody of all races.” So any picture will do.

I can’t even see race, Jeff. I’m that color blind. Everyone looks white to me.

So, chuck. Should those names be illegal?

Who made anything illegal? What are you talking about?

I’m just asking hypothetically.

All right. I will allow it. Chuck, do you think offensive sports team names should be against the law? Does anyone here think so?

I can’t even answer that because it’s so ridiculous.

Nobody’s trying to outlaw the sports name, and it wasn’t even about the “Fighting Sioux” or “Warriors”. It was about the “Redskins” and it was one opinion on using it in a newspaper article. You would really be doing yourself a favor by reading and comphrehending.

COMPREHENDING.

Fuck.

Against the law? Nope. Doesn’t need to be, because it’s such a bad idea that no rational person would be in favor of it.

Well, there’s one straw man taken care of.

Making offensive team names illegal doesn’t address the real issue and would only seem to create more issues.

A newspaper though, has the right and I think the responsibility to not print names which are clearly racist/derogatory.

“Redskins” is too much, but names like Indians, Braves, Warriors, Chiefs, are not meant to be offensive and I doubt the vast majority of Native Americans think they are (a controversial 2002 SI poll found over 80 percent of Native Americans don’t want the nicknames banned.)

It’s idiotic to say a team nicknamed “Warriors” is like a team being named the “Fags.” One term is a put down, the other a heroic description. A pretty persuasive case can be made that such team names are meant to be an honor.

Yet, hundreds of government schools banned the name “warriors” and forced them to come up with another name. Most common one? Pink Puppies.

Whatever you say, wasichu.

Yes, excellent point, Dennis. Where can we go from here? Nowhere. Game, set, metch.

How can you even find Warriors to be offensive? Those guys rule. I mean, they escaped the Turnbull ACs and beat down the Orphans, Baseball Furies, Lizzies, Punks, Rogues and the Gramercy Riffs.

You don’t ask the Warriors to come out and play-i-yay unless you are ready for a real ASS KICKING.

CAN YOU DIG IT?

match*

Feck. I’M TOO FIRED UP TO TYPE GOOD.

It’s idiotic to say a team nicknamed “Warriors” is like a team being named the “Fags.”

For many, it’s not that “Warriors” is demeaning. It is more a matter of what other schools do with it. Not too long ago, NDSU was notorious for it’s “Sioux suck” and other derogatory chants at home football games.

mnblrmkr-
My mom remembers when people from her high school would call the Catholic high school sports team members “minnow munchers.” (is this still happening Cat?)

My point being, kids are creative with their insults to rival teams, so I don’t see banning certain mascots as really changing anything.

My point being, kids are creative with their insults to rival teams, so I don’t see banning certain mascots as really changing anything.

true, but I think there’s a difference between coming up with a slur for a Bruin vs. an ethnicity.

Personally, while I don’t care THAT much, I think the only schools that use ethnic mascots should be schools with actual or historic ties to them: Notre Dame, Macalaster, tribal schools, etc.

And, as has been pointed out, if a paper decides on a policy against using them, or a private, voluntary organization wasn’t to put restrictions on their use, that’s their business.

The neices and nephews say not so much – partially because over years, the sports teams have been consistently good.

I do remember fish being thrown on the basketball floor at almost every game. And being called all kinds of names. Also, at a cross country meet, my sister said that the rival school threw fish at them.

The biggest incident was a football game in Sioux City – I think with SC North. Name calling, fish throwing. etc. led to a bench clearing brawl which led to the game being canceled and most of the players being suspended from school. One of the bros ended up in the emergency room with a broken nose and my dad’s wrath – not an enviable place to be.

Cat, I think something similar happened at a Augie-SDSU game when people threw jackrabbits on the court. Rumor has it that at a USD game (Coyotes) someone got thier hands on a dead coyote and threw it on the court. Kids are fucking wierd.

Eeeww… The fish are bad enough. There was a game that they stopped and made the rival team clean it up all of the fish cuz’ that crap stank. The floor was covered in stanky fish – I think from the Sioux River – yucky!

Ahh, the good ole’ days of catholic schools.

The only reason the mascot issue is still an issue is because white people are still talking about it.

Most Native people are spending their energy trying to dodge alcoholism, diabetes, and generally stay alive and above the poverty level. Most aren’t hand-wringing about sports team names. If they are, it is because they like the attention they get from white people for doing so.

I am Native and don’t give a shit about sports mascots, because I think Native people have WAY BIGGER PROBLEMS THAN THIS. And I don’t really wanna hear some old honky academic bullshit about how the mascot problem is “symbolic” of the “greater” causes of our problems, either. Bla bla bla. Try to explain that to some Native lady with 3 kids waiting in line at the food shelf. I’m sure she can just drop her kids off at the crisis nursery to join you at the next mascot protest. Hey, then you could have Native people in your Flickr photostream!

As for this Shaw character, well, I’m sure he’s not the first journalist in the world to receive death threats and live to tell about it. BFD. So his sense of masterbatory self-satisfaction about ruling out the Redskins name got all pooped on, poor baby.

Thanks weighing in on this thread, Bx, since you are dealing with so many way bigger problems than this. Especially since you seem to feel you are the voice of most Native people.

Except that you are posting to this thread…

So…um…

But hey, everybody has to beat off, ya know?

Thanks for just reacting to my post, Raindog, without actually thinking about it first. Classic. And very, very “symbolic” of the “greater” causes of so many problems.

And show me, in my post, where I said I was speaking for or on behalf of any other Native people.

I said “I am Native,” and “I think Native people have bigger problems” than this. Where, specifically, did I say “speaking for most Native people……” or “as a representative of my entire race……” or anything along that line?????????

Before you just react, THINK! You don’t deal with people constantly asking you about your view on this like you’re some kind of spokesperson/token. Do you? It WEARS on a person after a while, and causes one to form a strong opinion about it. OH NO. A Native person with a strong opinion about something! Who might use some SWEARING WORDS! Raindog, I respect that you’re human and respect that you’re reactionary. But in turn, please respect my experience regarding this. It is different from yours, I am sure!

The fact that you INSTANTLY dismissed my feelings about this issue is WAY more troubling than the issue itself. Believe me.

Thanks for your feedback, anyway.

* waves at Bx *

(Disclaimer: I used to play for the Fridley Fags., aka Math Team.)

honest question: is it acceptable for the media to filter certain information they believe may be ‘offensive’? that seems like a pretty significant line to cross.

They do it all the time. Cuss words are almost always cut out of stories.

And show me, in my post, where I said I was speaking for or on behalf of any other Native people.

Well…since you asked so nice:

Most Native people are spending their energy trying to dodge alcoholism, diabetes, and generally stay alive and above the poverty level. Most aren’t hand-wringing about sports team names. If they are, it is because they like the attention they get from white people for doing so.

Thanks for playing the Feud!

Careful not to get any jizz on your keyboard, Raindog.

And let’s say I actually was “speaking for” other Native people.
Just for the sake of your losing argument.

The horrors! What about that idea gets your thong in such a twist? Could people of a shared ethnicity also have shared experiences? Is that OK with you, Raindog? Do people like Maz and I have your holy, omnipotent permission to share an opinion about the same thing or speak on behalf of our relatives? Or do we need to write up a treaty that allows this on the Internet? Would that help you sleep better? Please let me know. I want to help.

Hey,

I actually agree with some of what Bx wrote. Do native people face greater problems than this? Absolutely. Do I understand that many Indians consider this at best a peripheral issue? Oh hell yeah.

But that actually fits in very well with the point I was making.

When I talked about the death threat, it wasn’t in the context of “poor me, I got ascairt” — and I think that’s very clear if you read the initial post. The post was expressing shock that, of all the controversial stands we took on native issues, this was the one that fired up the nutjobs.

To name a few issues, our paper took very strong positions in favor of treaty shellfish rights; of the rights of tribes to implement environmental regulations for clean water and public health; of tribal sovereignty in terms of police powers; etc. etc.

We wrote about drugs and diabetes, and the federal trust responsibility to address these problems. We wrote about all kinds of issues that actually affect peoples’ lives. We got a few responses from people, some of whom disagreed. We never got the kind of responses that poured in after taking this fairly mild stance on mascots.

You can find the mascot issue to be much ado about nothing, and that’s certainly your prerogative. But I think it’s interesting that so many non-Indians absolutely freak out if you even imply that these mascots are distasteful.