Secrets of the City

Ethanol farmers, vlad?

This may surprise you, but the American Lung Association of Minnesota has not adopted a position on this proposed legislation, and we have friends on either side of the debate.

Here’s one point of view. Here’s another.

“This should be a big win for clean air!”

… I am having a hard time figuring out if you are being sarcastic or not…

Not only will this have zero effect on “clean air” (or whatever) – we should not be encouraging more ethanol production.

What production should we be encouraging, regexp?

From the article:

“Those standards include tighter limits on the compounds that cause smog and acid rain”

I am glad to see that the ALA is not supporting a bill that would reduce smog and acid rain.

regexp:

I was being sarcastic, and if you consider the reduction of acid rain and smog to make no difference in clean air, well that is your odd opinion.

Not taking a position means we have no position, vlad. We don’t take official positions until we have some solid facts we feel comfortable with –and we keep hearing conflicting information from both sides. We have been digging into this for some time, and its still as clear as mud.

More from both sides, in the Daily Planet.

Fair enough bob, I’ll accept that. While we are on the issue, do you know why there is no emission testing for cars in MN like others states (NY, Cali)???

There are a lot of cars with nasty exhausts running around.

Tougher clean air standards = Good

Disenfranchising Minnesotans by giving up our right to determine our clean air standards to the voters of another state = Bad

If the bill just said Cali has these standards now, so let’s adopt these numbers, that would be one thing. However, I understand it to say that our standards will be whatever those standards set by the Cali legislature are. It’s not a fixed number on the spreadsheet, but one that varies according to another state’s elected leaders.

Bob,

From the article you linked:

appointed by whatever movie star is running California.

Childish attacks such as this make me stop reading the article ASAP. Typical low-quality conservative trash. May as well tune into Rush.

What production should we be encouraging, regexp?

Uhh, how about Wind and Solar. Those are the only resources that are practically infinite.

So let me sum it up:

Infinite Energy Source: Sun, Geothermal

Finite Sources: Oil, Natural gas, coal, nuclear, land (yes, if you rape the earth with industrial farming it will probably fail eventually)

So that is my answer Bob, wind and solar.

If the bill just said Cali has these standards now, so let’s adopt these numbers, that would be one thing. However, I understand it to say that our standards will be whatever those standards set by the Cali legislature are. It’s not a fixed number on the spreadsheet, but one that varies according to another state’s elected leaders.

Exactly. Because it’s not just about the number, it’s also about the way they arrive at those numbers and the fact that they have different technologies and fuels in California than we do here.

(Thanks to Bob, actually, for clueing me in on that.)

Typical low-quality conservative trash.

My, but you are a sensitive lad, vlad. You realize that the author refers to the late Gov. Reagan and the current Gov. Schwarenegger, both former movie stars and both Republicans? Look at the original source — Session Weekly, the much respected bi-partisan newspaper of the Minnesota Legislature.

Wind and solar can’t make our cars go, vlad. Electric cars, perhaps, but we don’t have electric cars. Sorry. They would be great.

The short answer on your other question:

Minnesota began testing the state’s registered vehicles for emissions and pollutants production in 1991, when the Twin Cities failed to meet federal air quality standards and exceeded carbon monoxide limits.

However, Minnesota’s vehicle emissions testing ended in 1999, when the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency requested reclassification of the area’s air quality status from the federal government and recieved it.

FYI: Minnesota is one of the few states in the USA with every county testing with EPA attainment status for air pollution.

the desired result of this is that the guy on The Price Is Right will now refer to the gift cars as having “Minnesota Emissions”

All of my gifts come with Minnesota emissions.

Minnesota emissions: another good reason to Eat Local.

However, Minnesota’s vehicle emissions testing ended in 1999, when the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency requested reclassification of the area’s air quality status from the federal government and recieved it.

Sorry Bob, I don’t get it???

MPCA reclassified the status and we stopped testing?? WTF? Sounds like a bureaucratic solution. What I understand from the above description:

1. Mpls had air pollution problem
2. Tried to solve it with emission testing
3. Didn’t work
4. Instead of fixing the problem the area was re-classified into a dirtier-air class?
5. Thus emission testing was stopped so that cars can continue polluting even more?

Am I missing something here. Do not see the logic at all? How would emission testing not reduce pollution? Why was it stopped?

MPCA requested reclasification. Only the EPA could grant it, which it did.

I wasn’t around the ALAMN during this time, but I think the Twin Cities biggest problem (as far as the EPA was concerned) back then was carbon monoxide levels during the winter. They came with a novel solution.

Minnesota has been within federal guidelines for carbon monoxide ever since the E10 requirement began. We also are in “attainment status” for ozone and particulates.

On any given day, the pollution levels can be high, prompting the air quality alerts. But overall, our air is pretty good, compared to other states.

The American Lung Association is issuing its annual State of the Air Report on May 1. I can’t tell you about it now, but ask me on Thursday.

Ethanol is such a joke.

We use more energy and water, than we save in energy.

More bull from Lobbyists

Actually vlad, reread that. Under the testing plan, we WERE meeting the standards. That’s why MPCA was asking for reclassification: From non-compliance to compliance.

We stopped testing because Jesse felt since we were meeting standards, there was no need to continue testing.

Yeah, it’s stupid. About the same as telling yourself, “I lost the 50 pounds I wanted, so I can quit dieting, and go back to my supersized big mac meals with ho-hos and twinkies for desert.”

I’m no lobbyist. Ask Kevin. He looked me up.

I’m the Bearded God of Clean Air on this site, hopper.

PS: energy. water. public opinion.

Yeah, it’s stupid. About the same as telling yourself, “I lost the 50 pounds I wanted, so I can quit dieting, and go back to my supersized big mac meals with ho-hos and twinkies for desert.”

Not really a good analogy. What testing did was get rid of or repaired a ton of older model cars that were still on the road that were the biggest contributors to the CO emissions. If you had lived here you would remember the outrage of people saying the testing was only impacting lower income people with older cars. New cars with catalytic converters that work properly emit very little CO.

I really don’t miss waiting in line or taking a day off work so someone could stick a wand up the ol’ exhaust once a year and pay a fee for the priviledge. I believe the testing stations were costing much more than they were bringing in.

Yeah, it’s stupid. About the same as telling yourself, “I lost the 50 pounds I wanted, so I can quit dieting, and go back to my supersized big mac meals with ho-hos and twinkies for desert.”

Call me stupid, because that’s exactly what I did. I’ve lost 10 pounds since my surgery (a lousy way to loss pounds, believe me) and I plan on getting back on track. So no Chicken n Waffles or Tater Tots for me at the Bulldog on Wednesday.

As usual, Stephan Colbert gets the final word on ethanol.

An update, from the Pioneer Press.

LOL, Colbert is a right on.

Yeah, corn ethanol is a joke for sure. With food riots in the developing world and pollution from it everywhere its days are numbered. Maybe not if the third world is starved so that the MN can pretend we make our own fuel, but yeah.

Not really a good analogy. What testing did was get rid of or repaired a ton of older model cars that were still on the road that were the biggest contributors to the CO emissions. If you had lived here you would remember the outrage of people saying the testing was only impacting lower income people with older cars. New cars with catalytic converters that work properly emit very little CO.

I really don’t miss waiting in line or taking a day off work so someone could stick a wand up the ol’ exhaust once a year and pay a fee for the priviledge. I believe the testing stations were costing much more than they were bringing in.

I can’t agree more it was a bunch of bullshit if you had a shitty car like I did back then. I did not have much money and someone tells you your car does not pass emisions. It was a four cylander trooper, I loved the thing, but it did not pas emisions. I sold it and bought and 8 cylander truck.

It passed. I thought the ethanol folks did the about face and signed on the other day? Maybe that was just a rumor.

That was just one (relatively small) ag group, kevin.

As Yogi sez, it aint over until it’s over. However, for this session, the Clean Car Bill looks dead.

What’s that, now the government is going to mandate that we all get our cars washed weekly?

O HAI, DENNIS!

This sense of humor thing is spreading! I likes it!