Secrets of the City

I plan on dumping used motor oil into Minnehaha creek and throwing my tv and old cell phones into the regular waste stream. Also, I drove into work today and left my car running when I left it in the ramp.

Trees along the greenway, eh? That won’t stop me and my BIKER CANNON!

Think globally, donate locally. I recommend looking for the smallest grassroots enviro group that fits your criteria, vlad. Your dollars will stay local and go much further.

If you want to donate to a larger, older and more group, we will take your dollar. Heck, we’ll take your old car, too.

The Moffitts donate to WWF and a very cool group called Heifer International.

I threw my cigarette butts in the ashcan today.

uhh…like I do everyday…

Friends of the Apostle Islands as I kayak there a lot. Friends of the Mississippi, ditto. So many friends, yet none of them are Facebook friends.

I biked 15 miles to work today, so that’s helping kill the earth or whatever.

You could donate to the local non-profit Eco Education. They work to get kids to at least care a little bit about the planet that keeps them alive.

I think that works better than trying to convince old people, particularly those who think “I plan on dumping blah blah blah…” jokes are funny, to make any positive changes.

I’m gonna try to get in on that tree planting this weekend.

I plan on continuing to support MNSpeak…

…even though it pollutes the blogosphere.

I don’t give a hoot.

And speaking of giving a hoot, where has that damn give a hoot owl been?

Also, why wasn’t Smoky the Bear around this summer when shit was on fire?

Here’s the owl:

What about clubbing baby seals? Are those jokes funny.

I donate / contribute regularly throughout the year. I don’t treat Earth Day any differently.

Aliecat: Good kitty!

I worked at this event on Saturday, so I have already logged some Green Time this month.

Anyone who rides the Light Rail today will be powered (sorta) by wind-generated energy. Also, the metro buses are now using their summer B20 biodiesel blend, which should make Kevin happy.

I plan on running my car extra long as well today. I also spread the word in the office that CFL bulbs not only put out crappy light, they are toxic, and the more people start using them the more will end up in our normal garbage. Only out of touch with reality people think the majority will responsibly dispose of these. In addition I checked some articles posted here to update any latest news debunking the global warming scam.

I don’t have a specific Earth Day activity planned, but I have noticed lately that I’m getting more and more conscientious about every little bit of waste and usage in my consumption habits.

For example, I no longer turn on the lights in my office. This is cool for two reasons: saves energy and it looks like I’m not here so fewer people bug me.

Or when I got coffee today, I no longer take a lid/straw. I should really bring my own mug, but I forgot.

Little things like that are happening more and more. You?

While I love MN and the people here, I have to say that the incredible amounts of garbage lining the uptown area streets are depressing.

We want to fight global warming but people can’t even put their litter in a garbage can….. sigh.

I think I will drop a three digit donation to a local and world-wide org. Hearing about tigers, wolves and elephants getting destroyed is a sad tale.

Also, I think volunteering is totally awesome. I personally volunteer to pickup a shopping bag full of garbage from the streets of Mpls every day while dog walking.

Not too happy about this type of work since I feel I am simply undoing a small part of a massive pollution problem.

Anyway smokers, please don’t throw your butts on the street

They are not bio-degradable.

They end up in lakes rivers!

Duh, vlad.

If I don’t put my butt in the stream, it doesn’t get clean.

and I don’t scissor dirty butts.

Good for you, vlaid (no snark).

I’m sure our smoking MNspeakers always put their butts in the right spots, so to speak. I know Aliecat always does…

I’m sure our smoking MNspeakers always put their butts in the right spots, so to speak. I know Aliecat always does…

I’ve been saving them all up for years for a giant smoking ban protest art piece. I’m running out of room in my apartment, though.

Duh, vlad.

While people here may put them in proper places, 90% of smokers I see around town do not. I have to hold myself back from telling them what douchebags they are.

While people here may put them in proper places, 90% of smokers I see around town do not. I have to hold myself back from telling them what douchebags they are.

That’s how you get a glowing red cherry flicked at you. Best keep your mouth shut.

Is this like Valentines Day?

I seem to recall some angry Valentines Day posts about how people that don’t celebrate the day are cheap men that should be flogged to within an inch of their lives for not realizing how lucky they are to have such a fabulously bitter catch.

So whom do we flog, Oh Bitter One?

I’d like to hear more about people volunteering for the environment.

Do people actually do this?

Weren’t we one of the cities with most volunteerism?

Little things like that are happening more and more. You?

Same here.

I switched to reusable canvas bags for shopping (even at Target), and try to refuse bags elsewhere.

After I moved a year ago, I’m now generating less than a grocery bag full of trash a week. My recycling bin (the smaller, yellow lidded WM kind) is only half full every other week. And that would be even less if I finally kick my carbonated water habit (it was supposed to be an interim measure when I quit drinking pop.

Regarding CFLs: I’m mostly switched over to them, but they still need some work when it comes to three way CFLs. I’ve had two go bad on me in the last year.

In addition I checked some articles posted here to update any latest news debunking the global warming scam.

Fine. Believe that GW is a scam. That’s your deal. But the payoff for environmental efforts are more applicable than things on a global scale. Driving less (or more fuel efficient cars) saves you money. Less litter on the streets makes things look better for you. Changing light bulbs less often saves you money.

For utterly selfish and financial reasons, there is a lot of incentive to becoming an “environmentalist.”

The wife and I do a lot of volunteer work in a given year, but none for the environment.

Interestingly enough, and totally unrelated to Earth Day, I was talking last night about starting a local annual fundraiser walk to help improve the water quality of our lakes.

While people here may put them in proper places, 90% of smokers I see around town do not. I have to hold myself back from telling them what douchebags they are.

What do you think those 90% of people are going to do with all the CFL lightbulbs being handed out today?

I’ve been saving them all up for years for a giant smoking ban protest art piece.

May I suggest you dump them on Sue Jeffers front lawn?

Heh.

blrmkr –
I’m trying to kick my addiction to paper towels – really thick, pleasing paper towels. I’m trying to use rags, sponges, and cloth napkins in the kitchen. But man I love paper towels!

Good luck with kicking pop.

The butt talk reminds me of the streets of Seville where not only do they not dispose of them properly, they don’t even put it out. Smoldering butts and dog shit everywhere. On the plus side, they hose it all down daily.

I might celebrate Earth Day with some trees myself.

blrmkr – oh man… we consume mendota sparkling by the case in our house. We both quit pop at the beginning of the year and this was our crutch. I feel bad about the plastic bottles as we were doing Pellegrino (glass bottles) but it is so freaking expensive.

On a side note, I just learned the hard way that you should not dump a Crystal Light On The Go lemonade pack into carbonated water. No matter how refreshing it sounds.

I declared my love to a Manatee.

I used to buy Mendota lemon in the glass bottles, but I can’t find any longer.

declared my love to a Manatee.

Uh, Teucer? I know you had 1 drink last night, but really?? I look that much like a manatee??

blrmkr -
I’m trying to kick my addiction to paper towels – really thick, pleasing paper towels. I’m trying to use rags, sponges, and cloth napkins in the kitchen. But man I love paper towels!

Good luck with kicking pop.

I’ve had great luck kicking the pop. The only time I have it now, pretty much, is if I have lunch at Dino’s. (and there was the week at Disney World last month). What made it easy was, I did it at a time I had been laid off about 3 years ago.

Paper towels: I picked up a couple of 3M bamboo dish cloths at Target a couple of weeks ago. Seem to work pretty well. There are a couple of different sizes, they’re machine washable too.

I feel bad about the plastic bottles

We’ve all got our shortcomings. (Who doesn’t like a good ol’ fashioned tire fire?) But the plastic bottle thing is pretty wicked.

How about re-usable glass bottles into which you drop Alka-Seltzer? It would pretty much be the same thing, wouldn’t it?

I know nateek some of the efforts I can get behind 100%, purely for financial reasons. I don’t have a problem investing in realistic alternative fuels, or waiting for non polluting more efficient light bulbs. However if in the mean time we didn’t raise global food prices with inefficient things like ethanol and force legislation for things like light bulbs it would be a different story. There are definitely companies and people, not to mention educational institutions, that financially benefit from global warming hype, but our overall economy will be crushed if many of the energy measures get passed and enforced. To sustain and grow our economy we need to use lots of energy, and sun, wind, bio does not provide enough.

I drink insane amounts of Mendota Springs sparkling water at work. It’s the can kind.

Not exactly earth day related, but I talked to my wife lately about making our yard into a haven for squirrels and rabbits.

I know Nate… to be honest, the environmental impact about the plastic isn’t what weighs on me the most. It is all the new studies about the chemicals in them. I’ve been dropping hints at home about switching back to glass, but my husband is very good about resisting my “save the planet” speeches. It will take me a little bit of work to convince him.

“I declared my love to a Manatee. “

Hey, Jimmy Buffet posts here and I didn’t even know it! I love your music, Jim.

I picked up trash along the river with Friends of the Mississippi River last weekend. Most interesting find: the lower jawbone of some small mammal, with two teeth still in it.

I volunteer for the Sierra Club and Great River Greening, too. They have tree plantings, yanking invasive species, clean-ups, etc. throughout the year. I might do that Greenway tree planting, sounds cool. The more trees to hug, the better. I’m thinking about making my yard a certified wildlife sanctuary, where skunks and lynxes and shit can co-exist peacefully.

I give to the Club and NRDC. I love the way they kick asses and win lawsuits against the idiocy of the EPA/Bush Admin who would otherwise run nearly unchecked in their greed to sell off national resources belonging to the American public.

I left my lamp on today, so I feel like a bad Earth Day girl, but on the plus side, the lamp has a CFL bulb in it.

but I talked to my wife lately about making our yard into a haven for squirrels and rabbits.

Are you trying to destroy me?

Not that rodents gnaw and chew on anything and everything . . .

Oh, and for the record, since I switched about half of my bulbs to CFL, my electric bill has gone down by $11. Not too bad in my opinion.

Take the metro transit commuter challenge, you could win a prize.

We also win lawsuits, Tib.

In Hennepin County you can recycle 25 CFL bulbs per year for free.
If you are burning through more than 25 CFL’s a year you must be some sort of anti-vampire.

mb – we’re ingesting chemicals from the plastic bottles? I know about the bisphenol A, but that’s just in the hard plastic bottles (Nalgene, etc). But I didn’t know that we’re absorbing anything from regular soda bottles.

Alexis makes the case that we would do a lot for the environment if we stopped eating meat. Not a very popular opinion, from the comments she’s received.

Me, I expect we’ll be getting our bacon from vat-grown meat in about 10 years, and then I will start eating it again.

I live for the day when all of our nourishment comes in pill and powder form.

MB: “Uh, Teucer? I know you had 1 drink last night, but really?? I look that much like a manatee??”

Was it Earth Day yesterday?

No it was not.

Besides, I obviously don’t think you’re a manatee because I have neither pledged my heart eternally yours nor driven over you in my motor boat.

What can I say? I’m conflicted when it comes to Manatees.

It really isn’t harmful to the environment if the only meat you consume is from rabbits and squirrels that you lure into your yard.

In Hennepin County you can recycle 25 CFL bulbs per year for free.
If you are burning through more than 25 CFL’s a year you must be some sort of anti-vampire.

If you realistically think most people are doing this, than you are more out of touch with reality than Al Gore. Not everyone is into looking up information and going out of their way in order to throw away a used light bulb.

Time for a CFL MNspeak Flashback!

Sweet honey from the rock — if El Tinklenberg doesn’t adopt the CFL as his campain symbol, he’s nuts…

If you realistically think most people are doing this, than you are more out of touch with reality than Al Gore. Not everyone is into looking up information and going out of their way in order to throw away a used light bulb.

Well, then I guess we’ll all have to give up trying to do our part all together!

Changes I’ve been making slowly which save me money and also are greener: now use cloth napkins, old washcloths for cleaning; CFLS (Mohn’s Electric says they have those 3-way ones I”m going to check out); cloth/string bags and re-use small paper bags for groceries, etc; a PUR filter water container for drinking and coffee water so my coffee doesn’t taste like the Mississippi; only drinks I buy in bottles are beer and wine; only eat meat in restaurants where I know it’s locally sourced, don’t eat meat at home; buy local, organic and fair trade whenever possible; walk, bus or bike when I can; drive the speed limit to save gas.

We are slowly trying to upgrade our building to be more energy efficient, but it is slow and expensive because it’s 100 years old and there are four units. so we all have to contribute. Once we installed a digital thermostat we saved a huge amount of money and energy on our ancient steam boiler system.

Still don’t believe in climate change? check out this film and talk series at the Bell “Seeing Climate Change” in the next few days.

I make donations year round to Clean Water Action, IATPand some others.

Speaking of manatees and CFL, did you know that Miami briefly had a CFL team called the Miami Manatees?

No, you did not.

Just bringing it all together.

blrmkr – oh man… we consume mendota sparkling by the case in our house. We both quit pop at the beginning of the year and this was our crutch. I feel bad about the plastic bottles as we were doing Pellegrino (glass bottles) but it is so freaking expensive.

I go with the cheap Target Sparkling water, a little less than one liter bottle per day. The rest is tap. I do seem to be gradually cutting back a little.

mb – we’re ingesting chemicals from the plastic bottles? I know about the bisphenol A, but that’s just in the hard plastic bottles (Nalgene, etc). But I didn’t know that we’re absorbing anything from regular soda bottles.

I’ve read about that too. That’s one reason why they recommend not reusing water and soda bottles.

The BPA is tougher. It’s almost unavoidable: they use it as a coating on the interior of cans for canned food, etc.

For the Nalgene bottles, I’ve been under the impression that as long as the bottle is in’t in bad shape (i.e. still clear, not showing signs of age cracking, etc.) the primary leaching problem is with hot liquids.

The whole global warming thing is not going to change regardless of what is done today or in the future. China and India will continue to make shit for the U.S. and to power their production they will burn coal. I like groups that try to keep our water clean and it is a shame to see all of the garbage all over but in the end most of the suggested actions are like praying it makes people feel better but does very little to change the inevitable out come. My I suggest reducing the birth rate around the world that actually might have some impact on global warming but no one has the guts to suggest that on a grand scale.

“If every American home replaced just one light bulb with an Energy Star qualified bulb, we would save enough energy to light more than 3 million homes for a year, more than $600 million in annual energy costs, and prevent greenhouse gases equivalent to the emissions of more than 800,000 cars.”
Let us pray.

Also, the metro buses are now using their summer B20 biodiesel blend, which should make Kevin happy.

I couldn’t care less. I had to ride one of the god-awful hybrid buses last night. And the d*mn schedule outside is blocked by a “Cut taxes now!” sign someone slipped between the glass, which I rely on b/c the online schedules are so unuser friendly.

I walked to work today.

I walk to work everyday. And I walk home.

So suck it.

We’ve all got our shortcomings. (Who doesn’t like a good ol’ fashioned tire fire?) But the plastic bottle thing is pretty wicked.

The key, I think, is if there’s something that you can’t (or only with great difficulty) change, is to try and offset that with something else.

There are definitely companies and people, not to mention educational institutions, that financially benefit from global warming hype, but our overall economy will be crushed if many of the energy measures get passed and enforced.

I disagree. I think the switch over will be a huge benefit to the overall economy.

Many of the countries that are leading the way in renewable and alternative energies (Germany for solar and photovoltics, Denmark for wind), are seeing very good job growth.

but in the end most of the suggested actions are like praying it makes people feel better but does very little to change the inevitable out come.

Calvinist!

I threw my cigarette butts in the ashcan today.

This made me snort/laugh. Still giggling about it. Probably because inside I’m really crying. I. Miss. Smoking. A lot.

Here’s a good resource:
Minnesota Environmental Partnership

I give to a few different environment focused groups.
My volunteer time goes to the kids.

mnblrmkr: GE makes CFL’s for dimmers/3-ways. I can’t remember where I picked my up – Home Depot? I learned that after I burned through two of them… which I threw in the lake. KIDDING!

I read an article about the city of Raleigh, NC experimenting with LED lighting. More cost/environmentally efficient than CFL’s… if I find the article again, I’ll put it up.

I couldn’t care less. I had to ride one of the god-awful hybrid buses last night. And the d*mn schedule outside is blocked by a “Cut taxes now!” sign someone slipped between the glass, which I rely on b/c the online schedules are so unuser friendly.

Heh. So much irony.

Vlad– do you really pick up trash when you walk your doggie?

I should start doing that but most of the trash I see are undies and used condoms along my route.

but in the end most of the suggested actions are like praying it makes people feel better but does very little to change the inevitable out come.

Michael Pollan disagrees.

The NY Times Mag also had a section on living green. I haven’t read through it yet, though.

vol- volun what ing?

shouldn’t every day be environmentally conscious day?

I quit my job that’s half an hour + by car from my house for a more lucrative restaurant job six blocks from my house (I plan to walk to work).

Does that count?

I have done the trash pick up thing before too — oddest thing I found — a .22 caliber rifle, still in it’s case, dumped along the road in a county park. I called police.

that’s a good start

I kicked the soda habit by switching to coffee. But if you must have the fizzy water, I recommend a nice soda charger. They run off the little CO2 cartridges and are refillable. Those cartridges are recyclable aluminum as well(but they last for weeks).

Me and an old boyfriend found a bullet once. I’ve also found needles.

Man, I’m so urban and shit!

I’m looking for a bumper sticker for my Prius to draw attention to Toyota’s hypocritical anti-green lobbying efforts.

Probably the biggest thing I have done for the environment was to help convince the fellow residents in my town to vote for a $3.5 million open space initiative. That was 8 years ago, today some undeveloped land has been set aside for wildlife and recreation for generations to come.

mnblrmkr: GE makes CFL’s for dimmers/3-ways. I can’t remember where I picked my up – Home Depot? I learned that after I burned through two of them… which I threw in the lake. KIDDING!

Yeah, the bulbs I had were 3-way CFLs. One was (I think) a Home Depot brand, and the other was a Phillips or Sylvania 3-way-CFL. Both of them quit working within 4-5 months. I assume that the ballasts went bad. I’m sure they’ll improve quickly, but at $7-10 a pop, I think I’ll wait a bit before trying them again.

I am almost completely CFL or fluorescent. The only exceptions are in the garage, front porch which I haven’t replaced the fixture yet, two 3 way floor lamps, one hall light that uses halogen PAR bulbs, the dining room chandelier, and the bathrooms, again, where I haven’t replaced the fixtures yet. (and some appliances)

I had a Sylvania CFL that overheated and started smoking. I’m still sold on CFLs, but I’ll never buy Sylvania again.

Why do you need to replace your fixtures, mnblrmkr? I’ve just screwed em in there.

Why do you need to replace your fixtures, mnblrmkr?

Why? Because they were Dennis Franz-butt-ugly fixtures, and were screaming for an updated style.

I can add some pictures of them to my flickr stream tonight.

GE’s latest versions are suppose to be the best – 5-7 years. I haven’t replaced mine because of the cost – it’s made me dislike all of the dimmer switches in my house.

I replaced the bulb in the garage and then I was told not to replace bulbs attached to auto garage doors — after the dang thing burned out. Motion is not good for CFL’s. It’s been a somewhat expensive lesson to learn what works and what doesn’t. Grrrrrrrr.

IKEA actually has very reasonalbly priced CFLs. I have had some small plastic coated globe ones in the bathroom that have lasted for about 4 years now and they are on all the time. The incandescent ones that were in there would barely last a year and were about the same price.

I had a Sylvania CFL that overheated and started smoking. I’m still sold on CFLs, but I’ll never buy Sylvania again.

So am I. There are just a few applications that I think they are not quite ready for prime time.

I’ve just screwed em in there.

Slut.

IKEA actually has very reasonalbly priced CFLs.

I think they’re also one of the only retailers that has a free drop off for the used bulbs.

They need to rebrand it. Instead of “Earth Day” it should be “Humanity Day”. Because really, the earth doesn’t need any help. We keep doing what we’re doing, and the earth will heat up and we all die. The earth, however is fine. And once we’re gone, everything will go back to the way it was.

So we’re really saving our own collective ass here. Think more people would act if they thought of it from that point of view.

Or not.

I became a member of the Land Stewardship Project this week!

“If every American home replaced just one light bulb with an Energy Star qualified bulb, we would save enough energy to light more than 3 million homes for a year, more than $600 million in annual energy costs, and prevent greenhouse gases equivalent to the emissions of more than 800,000 cars.”
Let us pray.

What will be the cost to recycle the bulbs with the high Mercury content. The bulbs in the end are going to pollute the water that we will need to keep clean if global warming happens the way the alarmists think it will. You solve one problem and then create a larger problem. I use the bulbs and have never recycled them once. I just threw them in the garbage, I am not proud of it and will not do it again but let’s be real, most people art going to throw them in the garbage.

Here’s the info. It’s their entire enivormental plan for the city. The LED information is pages 23-24. It’s pretty cool.

Raleigh, NC LED City Project

And I’ll brag about a friend who sits on the board of this group:

Affordable Sustainable Living

It’s such a cool freakin’ place. It’s in Missoula, MT, but they are talking to a developer here in Minnesota.

Vlad– do you really pick up trash when you walk your doggie?

I should start doing that but most of the trash I see are undies and used condoms along my route.

Yes, I do pick up trash. That said, I will not pick up every piece of nasty garbage. I stick to easy stuff such as aluminum cans (which i collect for cash), plastic bottles, glass bottles, and other large mostly non-nasty items.

While, I would ideally clean all the streets in Mpls, this would be a full time job. I work on the principle that something is better than nothing.

Very disappointing that this is the case with garbage.

For those who do not think plastic is a big deal, check out the giant island of plastic goo in the middle of the pacific.

I don’t even feel like responding to the drones who tow the conservative agenda.

What will be the cost to recycle the bulbs with the high Mercury content. The bulbs in the end are going to pollute the water that we will need to keep clean if global warming happens the way the alarmists think it will. You solve one problem and then create a larger problem.

The mercury in these bulbs is not “high,” it’s about the size of the tip of a pen. Mercury gets into our water in the form of rain, which washes particulate matter from coal burning (high in mercury) into streams and lakes. It is eaten by larger and larger animals, eventially ending up in fish, birds, and fish-eating preditors — like us.

The less coal we burn, the less mercury in our environment.

aluminum cans (which i collect for cash)

Explain this. When I see people gathering cans, the same cans that I recycle every week, I’m a bit confused.

Joanna — what convinces you that those films contain facts rather than alarmist propaganda? For any ‘fact’ you can point me to in the films I can point you to a ‘fact’ that a skeptic climatologist refutes. Then again I could just be like vlad and say I’m not going to respond to the drones who tow the evangelical green agenda.

Yes, CFLs generate less mercury if thrown in the garbage than an incandescent powered by a coal plant. The only difference is local vs. less-local pollution but in the end it is all the same.

I think there are huge economic opportunities here.

Why?
Well, in most cases higher efficiency = better for earth = more cash saved

A highly efficient economy working on advanced efficiency technology has massive potential.

Unfortunately in order to achieve this we have to overcome the coal and oil lobby as well as Rush Limbaugh Ph.D. and his colleagues at Fox. They seem to be doing a fairly good job at brainwashing the brain-dead masses.

After all, let’s believe a retard on the radio who talks to himself all day as opposed to actual scientists.

Sigh…

Well, we almost made it to 3:00pm kids. It was good while it lasted…

Explain this. When I see people gathering cans, the same cans that I recycle every week, I’m a bit confused.

I collect the cans that are garbage on the street. Aluminum requires large energy to produce thus recycling it is profitable.

Scrappers will give you ~$0.70 per pound aluminum.

That said, I never take any cans from recycling bins. Those are for the city’s recycling system to profit from.

In the future, there will be no facts, there will only be alarmist propaganda.

In the future, there will be no facts, there will only be alarmist propaganda.

Hey! Watch it!

I declare Thursday, April 24, to be “Shut The Hell Up About The PA Primary, Already Day”

For any ‘fact’ you can point me to in the films I can point you to a ‘fact’ that a skeptic climatologist refutes.

If only there were some “scientific method” to determine the difference between facts and non-facts.

Yes vlad — I think we should believe scientists. Of course there will always be a certain brain dead contingent that will cling to the politically motivated and skewed findings of the UN’s IPCC.

sigh….

To be pedantically strict, no scientific theory is a fact. It is moreso a model. Most everyday people would not believe most of the theories behind quantum mechanics either if you asked them.

I am not saying Global Warming theory is 100% correct. However, it seems that the current consensus is that it is a real problem.

What is the worst that can happen if we take action against destroying our environment? We end up in a cleaner, less polluted world? Oh no…

realistic:

Yeah the anti-global warming guys are totally legit, and their funding crispy clean. Just like the creationists who aren’t funded by fundamentalists.

To be fair, I would be interested in seeing an actual list of these anti-global warming scientists. However, I can’t spend my whole day reading an anti-GW website.

The fact that every developed nation has accepted this except the US is astounding. Of course this is due to Bush et al, who have no connection to corporate interests of the heaviest polluters at all right?

The worst that could happen Vlad — and I don’t think that it will, but since you asked, is that we collapse an already weak world economy by implementing policy based off of unproven, and in fact highly and credibly disputed (no matter how much you want to deny that) theory.

I hereby declare I will begin to pick up non-nasty trash on my way home.

The world is my playground, so why not?

I hereby declare I will begin to pick up non-nasty trash on my way home.

The world is my playground, so why not?

Way to go tinnie. If only people could declare that they won’t throw it there in the first place….

Why won’t the city fine people for littering?? It could make a fortune.

If this thread doesn’t make it to 200 comments THE EARTH WILL IMPLODE!!!!!!

Check out the link to ICSC and you’ll see the list. If you think the GW crowd’s funding is crispy clean than you’re less intelligent than i had thought. Making a comparison to creationists is a sad attempt to discredit them, but not surprising.

Vlad – sorry for the mistake on submission name there. I had to multi-task and inadvertently put your name in the your name field instead of addressing you in my comment.

The worst that could happen Vlad — and I don’t think that it will, but since you asked, is that we collapse an already weak world economy by implementing policy based off of unproven, and in fact highly and credibly disputed (no matter how much you want to deny that) theory.

Classical argument. I am no economist, but the economy is digging itself a hole without the help of global warming. Look at oil prices. Basing the worlds infrastructure on a limited resource will be the thing that annihilates the economy.

If we actually stopped burning hydrocarbons and actually build more solar/wind we would have an awesome chance at averting many problems. So many benefits.

Further, if global warming is in fact semi-correct, the climactic disruptions will wreek havoc to farming (look at food riots and prices lately) and that will bring the collapse of economies and stomachs.

I don’t choose to believe in global warming. I choose to believe in our biggest experts. The people with Ph.Ds who labor on these problems.

After all, they are our best hope at solving big problems.

I’m with ya’ tinnie – well, in spirit.
I vowed to help my neighbor more often. She walks our street every dang day and picks up trash. She thought that if she did this and the neighborhood saw her, it would move everyone off their arses and yet, not.

Cute neighbordude and I help her periodically, but we’ve pledged to help her a few times a week. Ok, it helps that neighbordude is cuter.

I am honestly curious as to where funding for scientists comes from.

I would be genuinely interested in seeing a list. Too lazy/busy to look one up right now though.

Ah, yes, the ISCS. The Exxon funded pushback against the IPCC.

Note also that very few, if any of the ISCS people actually do any climatological research.

Vlad I agree with you I don’t choose to believe against GW – I believe the people with Ph.D’s who aren’t consumed by a modern day religious movement.

I also agree on economy and food. Lets look into real energy solutions, nuclear, hydrogen, led lighting etc, and bridge the gap in the meantime with the huge amounts of the limited resource we have left. Oil from Oil shale, gulf of Mexico, ANWR plus many more refineries, ending pointless biofuel subsidies, and energy policy that brings all that about is what we need. Unfortunately Bush failed at anything resembling that, and no one out there now has the foresight to do it.

Note also that very few, if any of the ISCS people actually do any climatological research.

But they produce “facts”! “Facts” which repudiate other “facts”!

I am honestly curious as to where funding for scientists comes from.

Most climate research (in the US) is funded through Publicly funded grant programs: NSF, DOE, DOD etc. Most of these programs are competitive grant programs, where researchers submit proposals, and funds are disbursed after going through a peer review process.

Most other countries around the world operate under similar processes.

Vlad – here is a list for you. Lots of climatological research there for you mnblrmkr, but I don’t suppose you want to busy your day by reading peer reviewed research that doesn’t support your claims.

so wait, there’s a big island of garbage in the pacific ocean? Seriously? I’ve never heard of it

Yes – grants that are very hard to come by these days if you don’t tow the GW line.

This debate is totally lame, but calling GW a “religion” is a totally crappy attach.

The fact is that the majority consensus is that the earth is warming and CO2 is the cause.

That should be enough for any non-expert to be convinced.

Why don’t people debate quantum mechanics and call those people a “religion”????

It is the same type of people behind that lunacy!

Electron can tunnel through a potential barrier? What?

For the record I went to the site you linked and it doesn’t even link to the bios of the profs. that support it, just some anti-gw blogs and rants.

It is like 30 dudes. That is a fairly small minority.

so wait, there’s a big island of garbage in the pacific ocean? Seriously? I’ve never heard of it

Yes, see link

where do you think plastic that is thrown away goes?

It is estimated it is at least the size of texas.

Fortunately it is in a place where few will ever see it and thus not a problem.

Yes – grants that are very hard to come by these days if you don’t tow the GW line.

As a grad student who has helped profs with grants, I will assume I know more about grants than you.

Do you have any evidence that grants were given improperly, or is this just lame attack on hard working scientists?

The fact is that the majority consensus is that the earth is warming and CO2 is the cause.

According to the Kyoto Protocol methane is 1000 times worse than CO2

Anyway, I was hoping to discuss local environment and volunteering more than just a rerun of infinite GW debates….

I’m not going to point fingers but it looks like someone didn’t get all their assholedness out yesterday.

Damn, if I’d known it was Earth Day I wouldn’t have biked to school or recycled today. Maybe I’ll drive somewhere to get some paper-towels tonight.

Actually, a quick skim through that list, there’s not a whole lot of climatologists.

What stands out the most are electrical, civil,and mechanical engineers, some biologists, a bunch of “geologists”, which may or may not involve climate related backgrounds, and a lot of people with explicit connections to resource extraction industries and utilities.

I would wager that a lot of those geologists and engineers are employed by same industries.

Here is an interesting take on the religion aspect by Michael Crichton.

How do you extrapolate from the fact that there has been warming that CO2 is the cause? The last 5 to 10 years have not warmed, and CO2 has drastically increased. Even the amount of warming is suspect, and nothing close to alarmists propaganda.

where do you think plastic that is thrown away goes?

Well, I think a lot of people would assume that it would just wash up on shore in various places and not end up, due to currents, in one place. So, I think that it’s valid to be surprised that it’s all in one place. In fact, I was surprised when I heard about it in on a PBS documentary several months back.

From ISCS

Scientist who support this site:

Professor Scott Armstrong (United States)

He is a Marketing prof at Wharton!!!!

WTF Is this? Some marketing douchebag is gonna tell me what to think about climate??

But it’s Wharton.

WHARTON!

Donald Trump went to Wharton and he’s practically God so…

Michael Criton is a climate scientist?

Wow, earth day really brought out the stupid.

Look. Understand. Now stop spreading stupid rumors. Jesus Christ you people don’t even try to know anything.

Well, let’s see:

Amesh A. Adalja. Medical doctor.

Hal Adams. Claims to be a Geophysicist at the University of Kentucky. Seacrh for him produces nothing.

Don Aitkin. Historian and poly-sci professor.

Syun-Ichi Akasofu. Geophysicist with speciality in space physics.

Bruce Alexander. Geologist who works for the oil industry.

I could keep going, but I would be surprised if that list turned up anything other than corporate shills and people who are theorizing outside their field of specialty, and haven’t done any actual direct research into the subject.

You have to work all the way down to Eduardo Ferreyra before you find anyone who even claims a background in climate research: Eduardo Ferreyra. No degrees or experience listed, and his other occupation listed is “web master.”

Not a tremendously impressive list, and nobody on it is demonstratably refuting facts about global climate change with other facts.

Even the amount of warming is suspect, and nothing close to alarmists propaganda.

And yet, the arctic and antarctic polar caps continue to melt at a rate even faster than what has been predicted.

So much so, that they now expect the Northwest passage to be ice free in the summer within 10 years.

There are even former and current members of the IPCC that don’t drink the Kool Aide. Of course the Senate report was not done by people with your agenda either.

But, vlad was right:

Anyway, I was hoping to discuss local environment and volunteering more than just a rerun of infinite GW debates….

Of course the Senate report was not done by people with your agenda either.

No, but it was signed off on by James Inhofe, who’s drunk his own brand of Kool-Aid.

Another important fact: It’s the Minority report.

Realistic:

I would like a response from you on your source, the ISCS, which apparently does not look so hot.

Do tell how the “scientists” there were able to persuade you to disagree with over 2500 leading climatologists working at the IPCC.

Is the kool aide cherry? Because I love cherry kool aide.

Agenda?

Oh Hockeysticks!

So much so, that they now expect the Northwest passage to be ice free in the summer within 10 years.
Scroll up and reread my comment on methane.

Now Read This

Its like debating with my Evangelical bible thumping relatives…I know nothing is going to change their mind. I’m off though to go home (where I’m already running the AC b/c it has gotten too warm when the windows are closed and I don’t like the noise pollution at night.) Happy earth day all!

To claim that fear of global economic meltdown is your rationale for being a skeptic of GW policy seems a bit odd.

Seems to me that if you’re really afraid of economies crashing, you’d think pretty long and hard about basing the economy around a finite commodity (oil) which is mostly locked up in unstable countries. That sounds pretty scary to me!

Environmentalism is pro-American, pro-business, and pro-security if you’re willing to look at it right.

Legislating lightbulbs should be seen as a drop in the bucket compared to paring down our oil consumption.

Unlike some commenting, I have not made up my mind.

I suggest both sides keep the mind limber with a steady diet of drugs and alcohol.

Realistic, debating you is as you describe.

You give a bunch of shit sources and then get mad that we are not convinced.

Finally, you exit the debate by trolling.

Is the kool aide cherry? Because I love cherry kool aide.

Oh YEAH!!!!

Do the scientists live in Crazytown?

Is the kool aide cherry? Because I love cherry kool aide.

No, it is Flavor-Aide, the same stuff they used in Jonestown.

Does the GW koolaide give you the moustache stain when you drink it?

What’s cool about ICSC is how they use a stock Joomla template. ’cause that to me screams professionalism. Oh wait, that’s right, they can’t get any funding because everything goes to people who tow the GW line, right?

I just like to bitch about design.

This debate is totally lame, but calling GW a “religion” is a totally crappy attach.

That should be enough for any non-expert to be convinced

I am convinced of global warming is something that is happening, I just don’t see how it will be solved. I really do not think that in the long run it will matter. Nature is a powerful thing and will heal herself, we as humans may not like the outcome. The only thing we can do is prepare for global warming but we can not stop it. We are past the point of return. Eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we fry.

I personally do not believe in global warming.

Kevin, what’s important here is I believe in YOU.

Re: Swandog

Not a climate expert, but there is a good chance global warming can be stopped.

If you’ve ever heard of the summer of no sun in the 19th century, a giant volcano erupted and spewed a lot of SO2 in the atmosphere. That caused massive clouds, no sun and real low temperature.

Crops collapsed and it was not a good situation.

However, temperatures did indeed go down.

So it seems likely that if SO2 is artificially dumped into the atmosphere, global warming can quickly be reversed.

That said, this is a fairly scary approach. You pollute with one gas, then pollute with another to fix the first one…..

Definitely a slippery slope.

Note: I am not advocating for this approach, just mentioning it.

I agree with swandog.

It bothers me that we’re always focusing on GW, since yeah, we’re probably screwed on that front and we can’t be certain that we’re the cause of it.

There are so many other reasons to consume less and tread more lightly on the planet. Cars take up lots of space, make a lot of noise, throw a lot of crap into the air, etc. Apparently garbage piles up in the Pacific ocean. We drive species to extinction by clear cutting forests. These are immediate concerns that effect us right now, but because everyone’s always screaming GLOBAL WARMING, the rabidly anti-enviro people just label the whole cause a bunch of bullshit.

And then I guess they leave their AC on all day just to spite the GW crowd?

I think peeps who don’t like Kool Aide is bullshit.

Uhh, some of the stuff I said may be slightly wrong but here is a wikipedia for better info. General idea is right though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_Without_a_Summer

Uhh, some of the stuff I said may be slightly wrong but here is a wikipedia for better info.

Mayor Rybak released a blueprint to grow green manufacturing jobs:

Jeremy- call me when the mayor has something to say about creating more jobs in the field of bacon. That’s when you’ll get my attention.

Woo-Hoo, go Rybak.

That said, MN has done a lot with wind, I wish we would do at least a little with solar.

Bixby: “No, it is Flavor-Aide, the same stuff they used in Jonestown.”

You’d think that the Flavor-Aid marketing department would have been all over the free publicity, instead of letting the Kool-Aid people get all the credit, but no.

Bush-league, Flavor-Aid! No wonder you’re number two.

Teucer, I know!

I mean, even Tang ranks above them.

Yeah, they still make Flavor-Aide.

Rybak has a PHEV. Fuck yeah. I want one too!!

Jeremy- call me when the mayor has something to say about creating more jobs in the field of bacon. That’s when you’ll get my attention.

Pork barrel spending?

Jeremy, we have to get you an external microphone.

We drive species to extinction by clear cutting forests. These are immediate concerns that effect us right now, but because everyone’s always screaming GLOBAL WARMING, the rabidly anti-enviro people just label the whole cause a bunch of bullshit

I agree with this. The global warming argument has detracted from issues that really matter. We should focus as a country on what we can control not what some global community thinks we should control. I hate to see the destruction of the planet, but the sky is falling global warming argument does nothing to solve the problem. It just creates a marketing opportunity for products that do nothing to fix the real issues we face. Furthermore, when I see Nancy polose and Newt Gingrich on an add together I am a bit cynical to the whole thing. Global warming is a PR stunt on a grand scale, whereas water quality is a real issue we face right now today. You can fix one but probably not the other.

That said, MN has done a lot with wind, I wish we would do at least a little with solar.

Wind is a good choice I know a bit about it. The reason Mn has done some work with wind is that their is a ridge in So. Mn that has a constant wind going almost all the time. solar is more difficult because we do not have as long of days as the rest of the country.

I wish the argument for all the alternative fuels was not global warming but fuck the middle east and their oil that would motivate people. What is really to bad is that the issue gets so polarized that it becomes a debate that in the end some action would have some benefit but to much action has to high of price. What happened to the middle ground in this country.

can’t it be both?

can’t it be both?

Absolutely not. You have to pick one.

Kool Aid or Flavor Aide

I’m endorsing Tang.

Swandog, I agree with you on your points. However, GW seems to be the #1 environmental problem everyone faces today.

So it is only logical to give it a lot of attention.

No doubt, I believe all the other things you mentioned are huge issues too, and I agree with you on limiting population, even though a smaller population can still be very polluting.

All of these problems (including population) need to be addressed ASAP.

Water will no doubt be as great of a problem, if not worse than global warming. Although many would argue that the two are related.

Just look at the drought in Georgia.

Anyway, I am buying a gray-water system as soon as I have a job/house.

Also, I try not to flush after I pee, but my gf won’t stand for that….

can’t it be both?

Way different agendas. I worry the left will use gw to control the populace and the right will use it as an argument against the left and control the population.

I would worry about the reality of it, not the politics of it.

Kool-Aid. Who doesn’t love the dancing kool aid filled pitcher dude? Actually, he kinda scares me.

And Vlad – Thank gawd for your gf. Think of all the bike riding you do as the pollution offset for flushing after EVERY TIME you pee. It’s the least you could do. Don’t you have the 1/2 moon – full moon toilet? That would alleviate any “flush every damn time” guilt you might have.

Earth day? I ate a beaver (saved a tree)

I give my toilet the full moon often!

Kool-Aid. Who doesn’t love the dancing kool aid filled pitcher dude? Actually, he kinda scares me.

Dane Cooks likes the Kool-Aid Man.

In other politics/Earth Day stuff, has anyone seen the Al Sharpton/Pat Roberston climate PSA? It blew my mind. Robertson endorsed Rudy G too, right? Really, the right needs to provide better adult supervision for that man.

I spent the whole day (going on 14 hours now) pimping a new building. It’s time to start drinking!

LOL

solar is more difficult because we do not have as long of days as the rest of the country.

Um, we have exactly the same length of days as any other country. During the summer, we even happen to have some of the longest hours of daylight in the country.

Potential problems are

1. because of out northern latitude, even during the summer, that daylight may not be as intense as lower latitudes. An even bigger problem during the winter.

2. We have much shorter daylight hours in the winter.

3. We have many more days with cloud cover than do the more traditional solar locations in the south west.

However, these do not mean that small scale solar/photovoltics projects wouldn’t be worth it. If individual buildings could use these to reduce their reliance on the grid even partially, you would probably start to see a difference.

I flush after every third pee…

Rode a green bus again tonight. How miserable. Whoever designed them ought be trussed and beaten in full view of the general public. I hope mother nature is happy, I’ve got sore legs and cooties.

I think our sun here is good enough. It is not that bad as seen below.

Note that it is not only the latitude, length of days, etc. that is important.

Cloudy days, air pollution, etc. are key as well. Here is a map:

As you can see, we are not as great as Cali, but as good as the Northeast, and south.

Much better than Pacific northwest, michigan, PA, etc etc.

I think it is worth it considering solar and wind are practically infinite resources, while nuclear, coal, oil are not.

Kevin, what is wrong with the green bus?

never rode it but it is so nice and quiet. Normal buses have serious noise pollution issues.

I flush after every third pee…

I pee every third flush.

mb, I only do it that way to keep the cats from drinking out of the toilet.

Kevin, what is wrong with the green bus?

it’s short?

Why don’t you CLOSE THE LID!????

The Rat- see, then I couldn’t push them in when I catch them doing it.

There’s method to my madness

The engines are quieter, but sound bounces around so much in the inside that it’s a negligible diff. The problem that me (and a lot of other riders mention when we have them) is how messed up the inside is, presumably to accomodate whatever engine changes they need to have. It’s awful. I’m 6ft tall and have trouble seeing out the window in the lowest of the four levels of seats. There are four levels of seats, which requires a lot of steps (accidents waiting to happen) and there is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay less room. Some people think there is actually fewer seats. I don’t know cause I guess I never counted, but when the aisles are packed it is a nightmare for people to get out of the way, navigate the aisle back to the door all without tripping on a step.

Hopefully these are just v1.0, but I would think they could have done better.

mb, I only do it that way to keep the cats from drinking out of the toilet.

Why don’t you give your cats their own water?

Bix, Hahaha! I DO! But they prefer the icy cold agua from my shitter.

The Rat worries about you, Allie.

The Rat worries about you, Allie.

I know Rat, but cable only entertains for so long.

Maybe your cats like pee.

Hmm…well, my cat is an asshole. He eats electronic cords if we don’t give him Special Kitty cat food from a a can. nevermind that he has dry cat food. He’s destroyed 3 blackberry chargers, 2 laptop cords, an xbox controller, a DVD player and several lamps. He’s never gotten shocked and, even more asshole-ed, he nuzzles the cord as a hint. If you don’t hook him up, your cord is done. Still, my cat likes the water in his bowl not in my bowl.

mb- they don’t drink out of it if there’s pee in there.

bix- it defies all logic, I know.

My Torii and your cat are two peas in a pod, Bix.

first!

Don’t defend your pee cats Alie.

Bix- I had a cat like that who ate plastic bags. He would get sick, I would take him to the vet, pay an enormous bill, and he would come home and eat more plastic bags.

For Earth Day I decided to adopt a woodland creature. I found a badger on my way home. Right now he’s in my bedroom taking a nap.

I hope he doesn’t wake the midgets.

LOL, my cats eat power cords AND plastic bags!

I’m thinking of permanently relocating them both to the basement.

I’m so glad this thread reached the 200 comment mark as the world imploding would have been bad. I keep my stuff there and my cat pees there.

My cat doesn’t get sick or anything. It’s like there are no negative repercussions for his tantrums!

Hey, Jeremy! Hanson and I used to work together before he joined Team RT.

Alie, I added some pictures to show why I felt I had to replace light fixtures.

Anyone watch “Nova” last night? It featured “Click & Clack,” the NPR car guys, looking for the “car of the future.” It was well done.

Screw Kool-Aid and Flavor-Aid (sp?)….Funny Face was where it was at!

What in tarnations are you talking about, spellsgood?

See you on the greenway Saturday (Arbor Day).

I recommend volunteering and donating to Great River Greening at http://www.greatrivergreening.org They have a big ecological restoration event in Savage May 3rd.

Some dude down in Winona State Universtity picked up on aliecat’s idea for cigarette butt art.

I’ve been saving them all up for years for a giant smoking ban protest art piece. I’m running out of room in my apartment, though.

»» Submitted by »»» aliecat at 1:07 PM on April 22

I bike to work. Also, when I drive, I turn the engine off at stoplights that I know last more than a minute. It takes the engine only half a second to start back up. If everyone did only that much, it would cut a few million tons of emissions per year.