Secrets of the City

The Rat can’t stand stand-up comedians.

He can sense their desperation.

Link, please, to aaron’s piece.

I presented at that same conference a couple years ago on the topic of nonprofit blogging.

minneapolis sidewalks do kind of suck

and hey, I’m someone who walks A LOT.

also I remember railing against that awful study referenced in the sidewalks article when it was first posted in MNSpeak. I even emailed the strib and got, surprise, no response. Nice customer service, assholes.

Having just visited San Francisco on business, I will concur that Minneapolis sidewalks are abysmal. Can’t really get much worse than this.

San Francisco had amazing super wide sidewalks on their main streets (Market for example). There was plenty of room for many people to walk including various street performances. I am not even going to mention the amazing public transport they have there.

MSP on the other hand fails to have good sidewalks even on their busiest streets. Yes, Nicollet mall has a nice sidewalk but that is it.

Hennepin and Lake in the Uptown area have tiny sidewalks which make it difficult to pass people. Hennepin-Lake intersection boasts the standard 5 foot (or whatever it is) sidewalk width. Totally insufficient for a fairly happening place in town.

Then again, maybe people just don’t care about walking infrastructure.

They do however care about cars and have littered the city with infinite parking, streets with plenty of car lanes, and even alleys so that a house is completely surrounded by car infrastructure. Yay.

F*ing backwards shit.

coming from Detroit, I thought I had experienced seedy pedestrian streetlife nightlife. and then I had to walk San Francisco’s Tenderloin District at night to get home from a friend’s house in Inner Richmond (late night bus service was limited). Holy f’ing strung-out sketchbags.

Can’t really get much worse than this.

oh-ho-ho, yes it can.

but you make a good point that something really does need to be done about standard-width sidewalks in high-traffic areas. sacrifice a lane of parking if you must, but wider sidewalks with amenities (oh I don’t know, BENCHES in uptown maybe? some trees on the sidewalk? something wide enough to get around the few patio setups in the summer?) are an easy way to keep thriving areas strong.

Seriously, are there any sidewalk benches in this city outside of nicollet mall and bus stops?

Benches? Come on, most minnesotans are afraid of benches and/or the people who might sit on them. If you cannot afford to pay for a seat on the sidewalk at Figlio or Chino, you probably should just walk on a little further east, but keep going once you hit lyndale, there are people trying to eat and drink at la bodega too. There are benches down by the K-mart parking lot for you people.

sigh.

I really think that Mpls benches have been deliberately removed or not installed at all because the police and business owners think they’ll attract unhygenic derelicts and terrorizing panhandling teens. Which they might, but who cares, it’s not freaking Edina.

I really think that Mpls benches have been deliberately removed or not installed at all because the police and business owners think they’ll attract unhygenic derelicts and terrorizing panhandling teens. Which they might, but who cares, it’s not freaking Edina.

I take it you are not one of the Mpls. business owners.

Seriously, are there any sidewalk benches in this city outside of nicollet mall and bus stops?

There is one on Washington right by the 35W ramp. Because it looked like the kind that are at bus stops, I waited in 90 degree heat for a bus there, after I had given blood. Boy was I upset, and confused, when the bus passed me by.

I agree with wider sidewalks, but would that encourage more douchebags to ride their bikes on them? I have actually been told to get out of the way by a guy on his huffy racing down the sidewalk.

RE: Edina Benches.
Actually one of my favorite TC bench experiences happened in Edina. The fountain in front of the bank at 50th & France. A younger me, killing time on my lunch break from my internship out in Edina proper (by Southdale), had bought a sandwich from Lunds and sat on the benches eating. Across from me an older gent, probably mid-eighties, sat quietly watching the birds playing in the water. The water was full of suds from someone putting dish soap in the night before. Bubbles all over the place and birds flapping around in it. The man and I had not spoken at all, we had given each other the nod as I sat down, but nothing else. We sat that way for about a half an hour, me eating and reading and he sitting. Then as I was finishing my sandwich, enjoying the hot july day, and getting ready to leave, the man chuckled, self reflectively and looked my direction. “ha! F-ing kids!”

A perfect closing to a nice lunch and an encounter that only occurs when benches are present, allowing enough time for these moments to percolate.

Speaking of benches, what is the story behind that park by the Mpls Art Institute that has, oh, 100 or so benches?

I love that park. I think people used to go to parks and sit in them. Crazy, huh? Now the homeless sleep on them, so they still get use.

It is a beautiful park.

It’s easy to understand why sidewalk benches aren’t so appealing to people. It’s kind of a fundamental flaw in the way cities are laid out — why would you want to look out at a street where your thrilling view of the cars passing is impeded by another line of parked cars?

As an avid biker, I am completely against sidewalk biking. However, if we had super wide sidewalks, that wouldn’t really be as bad, since bikers would have plenty of space to pass around you. The situation in MSP is made worse by super narrow sidewalks which are pretty much suitable for one person traveling in one direction.

Again, I am not condoning sidewalk biking.

The reality I think is that sidewalks on busy streets have been made smaller in order to accommodate more traffic and parking. Hennepin and Lake are both practically 6 lane streets (4 traffic, 2 parking). If one of those is sacrificed, the sidewalk space could be doubled. That however is fantasyland. the reality is that people are more favorable to decreasing sidewalks even more in order to insert turn lanes and such so that traffic can flow better.

I’m not talking about park benches, obviously.

but this city seems hellbent on destroying any chance it might have at generating actual streetlife.

And andy, central square in cambridge is a great example of how to do street benches right. They have a nice wide sidewalk, access to trains, bus stops, bike lanes and only (gasp!) two lanes for cars,one in each direction. The wider sidewalks enable them to put benches that face one another in pairs and are perpendicular to the street. It’s a lovely setup, really.

I’ve been trying to find decent pictures of the central square streetscape since I first posted earlier and couldn’t find anything so I gave up.

My unscientific study from my travels:

Sidewalk and Walkability ranking.

1. Any city in Europe (even in Eastern Europe)
2. NYC
3. SF
4. Boston
5. Chicago
6. Pittsburgh
7. LA
8. Minneapolis

while we are competitive when it comes to biking trails, walkability is awful.

ah-ha!

this sort of gives you an idea.

And, they’re suitable for naps by the local hobo community, too.

SF Sidewalk

Minneapolis Sidewalk

Seriously, streets like Hennepin and Lyndale, need more than the minumum one slab of concrete width. Who are the morons that planned this shit?

Oh, they probably moved to the burbs…

Again we find ourselves asking: who will think of the hobos?

“who will think of the hobos?”

Why, Apelad, of course.

Yep, between him and John Hodgman, our hobo bases are covered.

if an area is busy enough to justify putting in street benches, chances are hobos would rather find somewhere less busy to nap anyway. it’s really not a problem in most places.

My list looks a lot like this, too.

RE: vlado4

My unscientific study from my travels:

Sidewalk and Walkability ranking.

1. Any city in Europe (even in Eastern Europe)
2. NYC
3. SF
4. Boston
5. Chicago
6. Pittsburgh
7. LA
8. Minneapolis

You guys are seriously like a broken record broken record

sidewalks Not wide enough? where to expand? people’s yards?

All you talk about is how bad minneapolis is for walking and biking. If there’s a sidewalk, be happy, or at least, satisfied.
Or write a personal check to public works.

No, don’t expand into yards, expand into the car infrastructure.

Let’s see, Minneapolis devotes: steets, parking on each side of the street, alleys, highways, parking ramps, surface parking lots, etc etc to cars.

I would gladly trade some street parking on busy streets for extra sidewalk.

In reality it is the opposite that is happening.

And I think I already have money taken out of my check for the car infrastructure.

I didn’t mean to be rude, but the city is going to invest much more in what will return the investment. Providing ample driving/parking will pay back in the form of more workers in the city=better economy. Sidewalks in uptown? not so much.

While it would be nice to see a massive sidewalks project, the ROI is not nearly as large, therefor it ranks low on priority list. Not to mention lack of funding.

Don’t tax me, bro!

I am glad to see that Minneapolis Inc is investing profitably.

I am not convinced roads are such a great investment. Not saying that sidewalks are perfect or anything, but look at the US. Massive infrastructure investment into roads. Enormous highway systems which rip through the downtowns.

What has the return been for the cities: massive exodus, destroyed neighborhoods, weakend tax base. All the educated/rich go to suburbs.

Perhaps adding 5-10 more lanes to 35W would make Minneapolis an even better place to live.

if you think about public works and infrastructure in terms of ROI, we may as well live in some kind of anarchist free-for-all, because public goods never fit well with private business accounting ideals. they’re completely different things.

some societies value intangible things like quality of life over MO MONEY MO MONEY, and don’t mind pooling their resources to fund shared goods. americans are just stupid and selfish and everyone wants their own little dumpy castle instead of sharing something wonderful.

Plus, there are a lot more things I’d rather my taxes be spent on right now in minneapolis, and I’m sure I’m not alone.

I’d rather spend on education, after school programs, police, etc. than on sidewalks. While they are important in contributing to reshaping neighborhoods, first things first.

a good point, however!

I’ve read some stuff lately about how uptown is possibly ailing a bit with some retail turnover and stalled development projects. One thing that helps up-and-coming neighbourhoods flourish as well as established ones stay strong is some nice streetscaping and sidewalk-widening. Otherwise areas become victims of their own success and it becomes unpleasant dodging crowds and eventually people start staying away.

But seriously, they did it in fucking Williamsburg.

I keep hearing South St. in philly is so over, but I think there will always be enough douchebags in that city to keep it going.

That’s heresy.

There are pretty big sidewalks on either side of Hennpin Avenue and in my years living there I never saw them overcrowded with pedestrians. But let’s build bigger ones and squeeze four lanes of car and bus traffic into two. And get rid of on-street parking, too, because everybody walks to nearby businesses.

Our good heart is the solution to your problems, donchya know.

Uh, which part of hennepin are you talking about kevs?

because we’re talking about Hennepin&Lake/Lagoon. Those sidewalks are way too fucking narrow and DO get overcrowded easily.

There are other places in the city where it happens too. The point isn’t to widen sidewalks everywhere, just in high-pedestrian-traffic areas.

also there’s plenty of off-street parking around uptown, and a lot of it is even free if you’re not too lazy to walk a few blocks. But minneapolis needs to learn that parking isn’t really free at all, even if people are used to being able to get away without paying (directly) for it.

Wow, Wayne, what a statement.

I’m a homeowner, hard-working, middle-class, and a democrat. You are probably most of those too. I’m all for taxes in many cases, but I have slowly become a bit more conservative since owning a house and really being ‘on my own.’ Once you realize that there is no one to bail you out, and that you can really use any extra money you can get, it begins too change you.
While I understand paying to better society as a whole, I’m very proud of my ‘dumpy little castle’, and there are a hell of a lot of us that are. It’s insulting to imply that we should value society as a whole insetad of what we have worked hard to get. We are proud of our houses, our neighborhoods, and what we have worked to achieve. simply by doing this, we are all very aware of what it means to share something wonderful. We are sharing the dream of working hard, making the right decisions, and living responsibly.

When you completley diss all concern for higher taxes and what they are spent on, you simply aren’t approcahing it from a realistic angle. It needs to be balanced.

PS, tell the hipster douchbags that uptown really isn’t that cool, and that will thin the crowds on the sidewalks some.

You know I like to be inflammatory. I don’t own a home, but I’m decidedly (lower) middle-class. I’m actually pretty constantly broke and barely scrape by most of the time, but I honestly don’t mind the taxes much. I’m always concerned about how it’s spent (so much waste), but not the idea of having to pay my share for shared services/resources/etc.

So maybe I was a bit too firey with my condemnation of america’s lust for homeownership. But, I have to say that it’s artificially subsidized by the government via tax writeoffs to be a more financially sound choice. How’s that for social engineering? Yes, american dream blah blah etc, but even so homeownership and caring about the public domain are not incompatable. Unfortunately a lot of people, especially the rabid anti-tax broken record crowd, seem to think the public realm is something to be abused and ignored as often as possible and want to hoard every penny they make to spend on themselves and their home.

Which is kind of funny, because they’re usually the same types that scream “FREE MARKET!” at every opportunity and worship the invisible hand like a god, yet don’t realize that economies of scale make it much easier for everyone to share something nice than for each person to have a lot of nice things. So we end up with a lot of people struggling to get by and have all the nice things they want, since there’s not really anything shared to speak of. Now a lot of people are pushing themselves too far and taking on massive debt so they can have all the nice things they feel like they need. I just don’t think it’s a healthy trend to turn ever-more inward and insular and shut out the rest of society.

And there’s a difference between a neighbourhood, which is just a collection of private spaces, and a real public space which is shared by and open to anyone. They both have their place, but only one seems to be any sort of priority which bothers me a lot.

oh and I don’t even like uptown. I’ve been there like twice in the last six months, I think.

But from a good urban design perspective, it needs wider sidewalks on a few blocks, with some amenities.

But there is a difference between the rabid anti-tax crowd, and people like me. Thwere are very real reasons for ooposing higher taxes in some cases, and it doesn’t always have to do with selfishness. That is what it just seems like you don’t get sometimes. And MNspeak only has like two of these nutjobs, you know that already!

I think you’ll find my arguments vastly different than swandog’s.

I probably make more money than you, and I own a house. Because of this, I pay significantly more taxes than you do. I’m just saying that my perceptions changed within the last few years, based on my point and place in society. Tangibles recently became more a little important to me, and ideologicals less. I sometimes wish this hadn’t happened.

I am a geographer, and a liberal thinker, so I totally understand the importance of public space, shared resources, and how things affect one another. But it’s not fair to just automatically condemn anyone who argues with taxes being raised. It’s hard when roughly 25-30% of your earnings are taken, from a practical standpoint.

And I agree. For example, the recent designs on Lake Street, with the planters, wider sidewalks, etc, will help pull that street into the rest of the city, and transform it to a street that is safe and clean, with thriving businesses. Things like this help, for sure.

Is R.T. still planning a streetscape renaissance on Washington Avenue? IIRC, he even wants to change the name to Washington Blvd. I think this and the Lake Street re-do are steps in the right direcation.

That said, I walked over the re-done Loring Greenway a few weeks ago, and not a whole lot changed there. Hope they didn’t spend a fortune on that.

baker,

you make a very good point. like I said, I do kind of enjoy being an inflammatory dick on the internet sometimes. I realize that taxation will never be a particularly popular thing, especially in america where it’s what spurred us to revolt and declare independence in the first place. But I think far too little public money is spent on things to actually improve the public realm. I’m not really sure where all the tax money goes (or maybe the state taxes here really aren’t that high after all? then again we are net losers in federal taxes/benefits), but the public spaces in this city are just pathetic. The parks are nice, but that’s not enough (not to mention many of the most-used and most pleasant parks are the ones as seperated from the urban fabric as possible).

And just because you make more and pay more doesn’t mean I pay a significantly different portion of my income. It’s about 25-30 percent of my pay that disappears too. I’m not pissed about paying it, though. I’m pissed about not seeing any results for it. If I could be sure they’d actually put it to good use, they could have another 5%.

I was just thinking of the lake street reconstruction, actually, as a good example of how to do that and something to keep an eye on for the impact of good streetscape on the neighbourhood. For lake st. I think it might almost be premature since they seem to want to use it to help force gentrification, whereas it should normally be something done after gentrification is well-underway or nearly complete.

But the lake st. reconstruction went about it in kind of the wrong way funding it just from local assesments (right? or was there money from somewhere else?). For parts of town that are already destinations for people from all over (and even out of) town, it should definitely be something the city as a whole pays for, not just the neighbourhood. I can think of half a dozen parts of town I’d love to see get a rebuild in a similar vein to lake st., but no one wants to pay for it. le sigh.

yea, i agree that there could be more spent on public spaces.
But I would also like to see more spent on thug abatement programs (see education, inner city programs, etc)so we can assure these public spaces are safe for all of us. And in this vein, sidewalks in uptown seem currently unimportant, to me.

I guess I was referring to property taxes when I meant I end up paying more than you. But it was my choice to buy a house, so I accept that responsibility.

No problem on your inflammatory nature–I’m used to it;)

the loring greenway was kind of a huge letdown. it’s still not terribly inviting or obvious, it didn’t really change and … well just what were they spending all that money on? is it better lit at night now or something?

I’m all for sprucing up Washington, but I think we shouldn’t forget Hennepin through downtown either (esp. with the planned conversion to two-way traffic).

But don’t even get me started on some of the streets further into the CBD with parking ramp flyovers on the sidewalk and curb cuts every three feet and nary a tree to be found… four wide lanes of one-way traffic, some parking lanes and the narrowest sidewalks I’ve ever seen in a downtown. Blech. And Nicollet mall could really really really really use a bit of modernization, because it’s pretty hideous and outdated.

Speaking of nicollet mall, in a perfect world they could build a bus tunnel under it, limit the buses to 4-5 stops through all of downtown and turn the surface into a pedestrian mall. Then the bus tunnel could also be rail-ready for an imaginary future where minnesota as a state pulls its head out of its ass and stops fucking the metro as hard as it can. You’d get a nice pedestrian mall, a way to speed up buses through downtown by eliminating the waits at every cross-street (since the lights are timed for every street that isn’t nicollet) and pairing down the stops. Oh what a wonderful pipe-dream it is!

I think gentricfication needs to be forced sometimes. It is a natural urban phenoenon, but sometimes it needs a little kick start. It sucks that sometimes local business get the shaft, but all in all I think it can be a healthy trend in many cities.

oh, well your property taxes go up because the governor refuses to raise any other taxes and cuts the LGA to plug his budget, forcing cities to up the property tax to cover their new shortfalls. with everyone starving it’s hard to spend money on anything, really.

still, at least according to form M1PR some portion of my rent goes to my landlord paying property taxes, which I get a refund on sorta. So I pay them too!

Keep in mind that Nicollet Mall is a pedestrian mall. Those buses are suppose to stop for you on it. You wouldn’t know it, but its true.

dude, you need to go back to school for Urban planning, GIS, or some combination of the two.
It’s obviously a passion of yours, go back an pursue it!

no, I agree. too light a touch and you can let a gentrification in its infancy die. but if you’re too overbearing you get the modernist urban planning distasters of the 60s and 70s with barren spaces no one wants to use but cost a fortune.

I plan on going back for urban planning (possibly also transportation planning if I can find a good dual program (like berkeley)). Probably in the next couple years. I’m just afraid I’ll be bored at first taking classes about things I already know. Hopefully not, though.

you have some good ideas. Sometimes I wish I would have studied it.
You get the best of both worlds–planning a functional, beautiful city, as well as making a bit of bank.

I didn’t think urban planners were paid all that well?

according to my brother, who is ~2 years out of the Masters in City & Regional Planning @ Cal Poly SLO, (GREAT place to live, BTW) there is pretty good pay for Masters grads going straight to work for municipal agencies.

Most of his grad school friends took starting jobs with large rapid-growth munis (he’s in Vegas) because that’s who was hiring. After 4-5 years, they are typically ready to track into private sector jobs @ $100G and up. It seems to me that some of the bigger suburbs around here also pay their Master Planners north of $100G.

If you want my bro’s contact info, wayne, he’s probably got some strong advice about planning & schools in Cali.

…limit the buses to 4-5 stops through all of downtown and turn the surface into a pedestrian mall.

There was a op-ed piece in the Sunday Strib a few weeks ago that discussed this (he actually wanted to apply the reduced number of stops city wide).

They only ever want to address the speed of service. They never seem to address the question of how do still make the transit service available to people that don’t have the mobility to go 4 blocks to the next bus stop?

wah-wah-waaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh? that’s a lot of money for doing something I’d do gladly for the pittance I’m paid now.

I am interested in your proposition, certainly.

I’m also really familiar with slo-town. my dad worked over there on a contract position for like a year so we’d go visit him almost every weekend. I got to know the place pretty well. I’m open to school almost anywhere, though, as long as the program is good.

A friend of mine graduated last spring with a Master’s of Urban Planning. He still has not found a job. Granted he was in Australia for four of those months, but he has been really looking hard for a couple of months now. There is a lot of competition for the jobs, at least here in MN.

well I don’t think a bus should stop on every block ever. However, every two blocks in fairly dense residential areas is reasonable. Busses shouldn’t be grouped in with trains for the whole 1/4 or 1/2 mile walk philosophy. except all we have is busses, so you have no high-speed spine for them to feed into and as a result everything takes forever to get anywhere.

But downtown seems like one of the most reasonable places to pair down the stops. Especially if you have a redesigned nicollet mall that makes it easier (and more pleasant) for people to get around it. There would still be stops every few blocks, but just not on EVERY block of nicollet like there is now. The cross-traffic and sheer number of stops backs up bus traffic during rush hour ridiculously. You can honestly WALK across downtown faster than riding the bus down nicollet at rush hour. That’s not acceptable QOS by any measure.

I’m sympathetic to people with disabilities, but if they need door-to-door service there’s paratransit for them. You can’t degrade the entire system just to serve them better when they have an alternative option already.

that’s funny, I saw a transportation planning job for metrotransit posted like less than a month ago. I was drooling, but don’t have the credentials right now to qualify.

I think there were a couple other planning-related jobs listed too, though.

anyway, once I get a MURP I will be unstoppable becuase I will very obviously be the most passionate and qualified applicant EVAR.

No, there are jobs, but there is a lot of competition for them. And it depends exactly what you want to do, I guess.

Another friend took her MURP, moved back to Portland (where she was from) and got a dream job working for the transit organziation there. Of course her boyfriend followed and it took him a long time to get a good job.

I can haz happiness?

things are looking up

I’m a homeowner, hard-working, middle-class, and a democrat. You are probably most of those too. I’m all for taxes in many cases, but I have slowly become a bit more conservative since owning a house and really being ‘on my own.’ Once you realize that there is no one to bail you out, and that you can really use any extra money you can get, it begins too change you.

It is a matter of time before you cross over to the dark side. I to was more liberal at one time and felt that common good was worth something. Wait until some shit head tags your house and then you go to some community meeting with the police and they blow complete smoke up your ass. Then some radical liberal (Sandy colvin-roy the ultimate city council moron) comes out and wants to provide funding for the shit heads that tagged your house all while singing coombyhaaa. Later on two ass wipes rob someone out front of your house. You get very possessive of what you have earned and where not given. Over time you become angry at those that support the system that takes from you and gives to those that will in the end destroy your property value and way of life. I moved.

I’m sympathetic to people with disabilities, but if they need door-to-door service there’s paratransit for them. You can’t degrade the entire system just to serve them better when they have an alternative option already.

Not really talking about door-to-door service, but para-transit is pretty limited in service, as I understand it:

I suspect that demand greatly out strips capacity. You have to apply, and meet qualifications in order to use it. You have to plan in advance. Service hours are even more limited (a quick look seems to show that it’s not available after 1:45 in St. Anthony Village). It’s very possible that you may find yourself having to arrive hours before, or waiting hours after for your ride.

It’s definitely needed for some people, but there are also people that might be able to walk (or wheel) a block in the summer, but not three or four blocks, or maybe not even a block in the winter. They don’t necessarily need para transit, just access to the main system.

It also bothers me a lot, the idea of shunting people off into a separate/segregated system.

It also bothers me a lot, the idea of shunting people off into a separate/segregated system

Not to get all soft, but their are people with disabilities that need help getting around. Why wouldn’t we just provide vouchers for taxi cab service so they could get from point a to b like everyone else. I am not sure but most cab co.’s have vans, you could provide a tax write off to them to modify them to handle the disabled.

I think the easy answer is to allow certain passengers to get off where there is no stop, as long as it is a safe place. I think this is already allowed.

I just got back from Berkeley and San Fran, and I can say that Minneapolis needs more HILLS!

Joanna, I’m guessing you don’t bike to and from work.

kurits, I did when I lived in Berkeley, and for two years here, but the winters wore me out.
I just miss the hills.

Hills are good. They help you see more.