Secrets of the City

Dear Minnesota Economy,

You fucking suck. Pull yourself out of the shitter so there will be some goddamned worthwhile jobs to apply to. I’m sick of seeing this horseshit requiring a degree and wanting to pay $11/hour. What the fuck is wrong with you?

Yours,
A frustrated job-seeker.

Dear Wayne,

Clean up your act, do some charity work, go get an advanced degree, buy a nice suit, shave and learn how to interview.

Sincerely,

-The Minnesota Economy

Wayne, have you considered meeting with a career counselor? They may be able to help you out.

I’m great at interviews, IF I COULD GET THEM.

wtf is a career counselor? I’m not paying someone to tell me how to find a job that doesn’t suck. that would require that I have a job that pays well enough now to afford that.

There are people who will look over your resume for free (check the MPLS library). And you may think your resume is great, and you may think you are a great interviewee, but you may not be. I’ve interviewed hundreds of people and I guarentee you most of them didn’t think they sucked as bad as they did.

And, right, you wouldn’t want to pay $100 to possibly make $10,000 more a year. That would be stupid.

Wayne — if there are no good jobs out there maybe you got your degree in the wrong thing, or your resume and job seeking skills suck. IT is still booming here (General Mills, Best Buy, United Health, 3M) to name a few big companies, and there are tons of little ones still paying big time and looking for good people. I’m sure that is not the only industry out there with lots of good jobs in Minneapolis, it is just the one I’m familiar with.

I don’t HAVE $100 to pay. Unless I want to not eat for half of this month.

Wayne, have you considered meeting with a career counselor?

They mostly tell you to: Clean up your act, do some charity work, go get an advanced degree, buy a nice suit, shave and learn how to interview.

no one will hire me for IT because my degree is in math and not CS. Which is stupid, because the IT guy where I work now comes to me for advice and to ask questions he doesn’t know the answer to.

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck paperwork requirements.

but seriously where do I find an IT job that doesn’t require 10+ years VB.net C# SQL whateverthefuckelse experience? No, really? Where are they?

I think a career counselor also will give you alternative places to look for jobs, alternative ways to market yourself, and some help in defining what it is you are qualified to do, which be more than you think it is.

And it isn’t that bad out there. I’ve seen a lot more jobs since Christmas. My sister in law just got her first job making more than $10 an hour, and she is thrilled. And believe me, if she can get a $12/hour job, you can get a $22/hr job.

Okay so I’ll give you entry level jobs in IT may not be what they used to, but with a math degree and experience in ANYTHING you should be able to work a pretty decent resume and find lots of jobs your qualified for. If not you seriously need to look for some help on the resume and interview skills, because believe me I know LOTS of people with just math degrees that have graduated within the last 5 years and are now making close to 100k. Needless to say they aren’t bitching about the economy or their degree. Of course their success is mainly their own doing. It doesn’t surprise me with your posts though that you blame others for your situation, and expect mama government to come in and solve everything for you.

Too bad mama government is in the middle of a hiring freeze.

Wayne, I don’t know what your experience is, but here are some leads:
http://www.mncn.org/jobs/user_detail.asp?jobID=19439
http://www.mncn.org/jobs/user_detail.asp?jobID=19353
http://www.mncn.org/jobs/user_detail.asp?jobID=19271

Hennepin County, 3M and Target all have jobs I think you should look at too, and that was a super quick little search.

Wayne strikes me as the perfect candidate for government work.

When I changed careers I got a temp job through Manpower that paid $16 an hour doing admin crap, scheduling meetings, filing. All you needed was some basic MSOffice skills. I did that for a year then was hired on and I have gotten two promotions in two years and cross my fingers another one on the way.

I probably didn’t need to actually wait a year since the Temp contract expired after 60 days and they could have hired me on for no buyout. If you have a pulse the people will recognize you have a lot going for you and will find something you can excel at with a big old raise!

TimmyP = Maz ???

I like this mncn website, thanks kc!
it also reminded me to take another look at the U for jobs.

Also:
Too bad mama government is in the middle of a hiring freeze.

ding ding ding!

and the county is pretty short on anything right now. 3M and target both have that big corporate stringent structured bullshit I’m trying to get away from right now.

Temping is a great way to go. If you don’t like the job, you can leave, if you do like it, 99% of the time you can get hired on. And there are lots of IT specific and professional temp agencies. Want Project Management experience, they can get you that. Want IT experience, they can get you that. Want a job where you screw around on the internet all day and don’t get any skills? They can get you that too.

I could make more money temping right now, simp. but I’d prefer to keep the ’stability’ and health insurance until I find something I know is a sure thing. And worth it.

ok, I’m sold. what’re some good temp agencies for that sort of stuff, then? I’ll at least give it a shot.

Sales of the light truck, the only vehicle Ford makes in St. Paul, are up 24 percent

And they are closing the plant I opened in Saint Paul….Who made this decision, my idiot son Edsel?

Sometimes you have to make the leap to make it across the giant chasm.

Baby steps might get you out the door but they don’t get you across town to easy street.

Platitudes look good on signs but don’t actually motivate.

touche.

Wayne’s issue: How to get a job without experience. How to get experience without a job.

My wife just got a temp job that is scheduled to last for six months. Yea! She had been looking for awhile.

Also check out the big non-profits: Lutheren Social Services, United Way, Wilder Foundation, People Serving People, etc. They don’t always put their jobs on the MNCN site.

This is also a good site:
http://agency.governmentjobs.com/mncities/default.cfm

and this
http://www.mncounties.org/employment.htm

a lot of the jobs aren’t local, but it gives you an idea of what is out there.

and have you tried MN Works?

In terms of temp agencies, Manpower is good, ProStaff is good, but they are big ones. Google for the smaller ones. The smaller ones will often list jobs they have available. Make sure they list ones that meet your needs. I’m guessing you would be good at Business Analyst jobs, and there seems to be a lot out there.

thanks for all the resources!

and I’ve been applying for business analyst jobs, but I guess those business types really want to make sure that their bretheren who went to school for ‘business’ find jobs, no matter how worthless their degrees are.

hahaha, so telling
from the front page of mnworks:
25869 job openings
45737 active resumes

of course!

Oh, but MN Works has almost every Welfare Recipient on it, I think it is almost required. Most of the people with active resumes would not be competing with you for jobs, but there are plenty of high quality jobs.

And I find the opposite true with Business Analysts, they always want IT people and have a management background…

Don’t forget the AMS site, wayne. I presume you are looking for something in the mathmatics world?

I used to be, bob, but now I’m looking for something in the making-enough-money-to-pay-my-student-loans-off world.

Wayne, also try the different Health Plan sites. They have lots of jobs. HealthPartners is on lightrail and Metropolitan Health Plan in downtown. And Allina, HCMC, and other health providers also have lots of jobs and are easily commutable for someone in the city.

See, I should be a career counselor.

See, I should be a career counselor.

Or Wayne could have used the Google.

I used to be, bob, but now I’m looking for something in the making-enough-money-to-pay-my-student-loans-off world.

Look for a job in ethanol production.

Like everyone else, I don’t know your qualifications, but the U of M’s employment site has listings.

wtf is a career counselor? I’m not paying someone to tell me how to find a job that doesn’t suck. that would require that I have a job that pays well enough now to afford that.

Aren’t those costs tax deductible? Some employers will also be willing to pay the fees for you. Might come out of your salary in a round about way, but at least it’s a start.

I, for one, think you could have a career in charts and graphs.

kc, you really should be. I wouldn’t begin to know where to find out about this sort of stuff! and seriously thanks so much for the recommendations. these are new directions for me to look into.

kevin, I already have a career in charts and graphs, it just don’t pay much.

Yeah we really are in a sorry state, I mean just from this thread you can see that there are no job options! I’d say when there are enough opportunities that you can not even look at some of the best ones b/c they are ‘evil corporations’ then we are in pretty good shape.

‘evil corporations’ has nothing to do with it.

it’s corporate culture I’m sick of. you get shoved into a box that you can’t get out of because of asinine policies, both written and unwritten, that some HR goon came up with to simplify life so they wouldn’t have to think too hard.

Wayno, not all corporations are like that. Some even nearly force you to continue your professional development. Make you spend time thinking about how you can improve yourself and your station at your company, have training on how to find a mentor, tons of classes you can take and decent reimbursement of tuition. I can’t count how many times my boss has told me if I’m interested in doing something else let him know so he can help me achieve that goal.

Man walks into a room with his glasses on top of his head yelling, “Ahhh! I’ve looked everywhere for my glasses and I can’t find them and this sucks and there’s no possible way I’ll ever find my glasses and this sucks and I’m pissed and I want my glasses!”

kc!, “They’re on top of your head.”

Man, quietly, “Oh. Thanks. That’s cool” Exits room awkwardly whistling.

Former Ballot Boss Eyes Wifebeater’s Seat!

I can’t count how many times my boss has told me if I’m interested in doing something else let him know so he can help me achieve that goal.

I had a boss tell me that once…but he didn’t like the fact that the “something else” in which I was interested included his wife and a midget clown.

but he didn’t like the fact that the “something else” in which I was interested included his wife and a midget clown.

I”m surprised it didn’t involve pizza too.

I’m glad Wayne was provided some resources in the end. The fact remains that 15 mins of searching the internet will provide you with unlimited options. I was able to find some easy links within 5 mins.

My boss told me that too… but he meant that he’d fire me.

Wayne, when I just got out of college, I worked for $10 an hour, too. Being at the same company for 5+ years helps your paycheck for reals.

Being at the same company for 5+ years helps your paycheck for reals.

I can tell you never worked at the Lung…

alie, I’ve been here about two and a half years and I make less money now than when I started.
so, not for me.

Wayne, two words…health care. Pay raises are typically 2x the rate of inflation. No bonuses though.

The fact remains that 15 mins of searching the internet will provide you with unlimited options.

yes because I haven’t been doing this for months. job listings do not equal jobs I qualify for or jobs that pay enough to interest me.

the intersection is a very tiny subset that’s ridiculously difficult to find right now.

in theory I’m supposed to get a bonus, but I’ve been trying to figure out exactly where it’s been the last couple years.

but my raises are definitely below inflation. by quite a bit.

Then I guess you should just quit looking and stay miserable. Have some bacon it might help.

also, simpleton, I’ve had a similar discussion with my boss about ‘other things I’d like to do.’

his solution was to find a job somewhere else outside the company. it’s great to have someone who really cares and wants to back you up like that (because it’s not like this is a huge company where I’m sure there’s at least three other departments I could potentially work in if given the opportunity … but no, no opportunity for me!)

wayno, if there are other departments you could work in, don’t wait for your boss to get you in there. Most companies post openings internally (many even wait to see if someone in the company wants to apply, and consider them before they even post externally), watch for them, and if you see something you might like, apply for it yourself.

A company the size of the one you work for, not all of the departments and managers are going to be as bad as the one yours.

I’m well aware of internal openings, but you have to have the blessing of your last boss to really get anywhere, and it’s been made clear I don’t have that (internal political power struggle I had nothing to do with but am a victim of, don’t ask).

In that case, is there anyone in a different group that could help you network outside the company, even if they can’t give you a boost internally?

Because, yeah, if your boss’ political agenda is going to affect your advancement, you need to GTFOOT.

That sounds just really strange, because a company that size is usually pretty good at providing/allowing movement regardless of the boss. Especially when it comes to mentorship/advising type relationships.

I’m in a weird position where I’m relatively isolated, so I don’t really have any friends in other parts of the company. Between the boss with an agenda and the HR department that does more to dictate how to screw employees than tries to keep them from being screwed, I have no chance of ever making it here. I know I have to get out, and I’ve been trying to.

But I’m not going to jump ship for a job that pays less than this one, even if it might pay more someday. I’m already massively underpaid, and I can barely live on what I make as it is.

I really want to be sympathetic to your situation, but given that you’ve been complaining about your job for at least a year, and that your response to nearly every suggestion is “yeah, but . . .” makes it really hard.

I’d think that if your boss doesn’t like you, he’d be more than happy to pass you on to another department and not have to deal with you anymore.

Ok, I was going to make a suggestion that you might consider going to HR, but that apparently is out (unless there is someway you could contact HR in a different location: I have now idea how they’re set up, but many companies that size might allow you to go through a different location or division).

One other suggestion: Try calling the EAP number (EAP is usually handled by an outside provider, and is confidential). This is one of the kinds of situations they are there for, and they can probably point you to some additional resources.

Believe me, I can understand the isolation part your talking about. I’ve been there both literally, and figuratively.

I’d think that if your boss doesn’t like you, he’d be more than happy to pass you on to another department and not have to deal with you anymore.

Not necessarily, if there’s internal politics playing out. There could be any number of reasons: He may be in a situation if he loses a person, he won’t get to refill the position, he might have been told his turnover is too high, etc.

Have some bacon, it might help.

Hee.

Wayne, you know I know how you feel. It took me eight months from applying to starting to get my (great) new job. But I’m not being facetious when I say a positive attitude about your future will make it easier to get through the present. As Elizabeth said, if every helpful suggestion folks are making to you is met with a “yeah, but,” people might not want to help you much. (It’s like The Secret; you have to manifest your destiny.)

Just remember: you don’t get what you don’t ask for. Get someone to take a peek at your resume and cover letter, then apply, apply, apply. You’ll get there…but you have to be confident you will get there, or else why will anyone else?

send your resume to the career center at your alma mater for a look over. They usually help alumni, not just students and recent grads.

I have some openings that need filling. The work is pole-litical. It involves a lot of pole taking…

Ah, Larry… you always bring a smile to my face.

“no one will hire me for IT because my degree is in math and not CS.“

I’ve been in IT for 10 years and still don’t have my degree (working on it). I started at the bottom and worked my way up. But I do understand that the market is different now and is certainly different in the Metro than in Bum**** Iowa where I started.

Keep your chin up. Perseverance will get you as far as any degree.

“no one will hire me for IT because my degree is in math and not CS.”

I agree, this is really a false, counter productive assumption.

I started in IT in 1995, directly out of the customer service department. I was earning $25,000 at the time as a new college graduate, and I had a journalism degree. In 2007 I probably hit the top of my earning potential as a full time employee (no management responsibilites) of a corporation. I was earning $83,000. I went back into contracting to get over $100k – for me it was worth the risk. But the larger point is, it took 13 years to achieve that salary growth in fits and starts.

Math transalates really well to computer science, you just have to take to heart that no gets the really hot Java assignment right away, etc. If you need to get in the door, I would think about QA / systems analysis for a contracting firm. I would think you could earn $50000 fairly easily as an entry level software analyst.

wayne,

if you’re getting paid $11 an hour, you may as well be in grad school – that’s what I get, and there’s a prize at the end if everything works out.

I think a lot of new graduates think a degree = big salary, but all it really assures you in ease and speed of moving up the ladder. Lots of corps will offer jobs to internal employees before the general public because they don’t want to spend extra time training on internal systems if they don’t have to.

no I don’t get $11/hour now. all the jobs I find that will consider me only pay that much, though.

god if I made that little I’d already be back in grad school.

and I didn’t expect to start making booku bucks, but it’s obvious I’m going nowhere here and now that I’ve got a few years of experience I feel like it’s not asking too much to find another job with a pay bump.

I really missed the boat on IT, though. If I’d gotten a part-time IT job in college I could have slipped into the field at the right time, but they’re getting anal about it now. Of course, I went to a tech school so there were hundreds of other kids in the same locality who also could do IT work.

But I have better resolve today. I’m not so depressed.

Wayne, not saying that you expect to make big bucks, it’s just an observation.

I don’t think many of the 20/early-30-something generation expect to leave college and make huge bucks. I was personally pissed off about going through college after seeing my first post-college paycheck.