Secrets of the City

Note the lengths the MPD went to discredit one of their own officers subjected to unnecessary police brutality. Note how long it took the officer to achieve his claim.

Now imagine how many additional hurdles an innocent impoverished victim must overcome to successfully assert a claim.

The thing I found most telling was that Storlie, the cop who lit up Ngo with an MP5 without warning, served as a private contractor in Iraq after the incident. Anyone want to bet that he was hired by Blackwater?

Tuck is absolutely right on: the one thought I have every time I read about this story is “Man, imagine what it’s like for a victim [that isn't a cop] to work with the MPD.”

Although I guess I don’t really have to imagine, because I have some very real first hand experiences.

I am very surprised that

A. Storlie had an MP5 in his cruiser
B. He used it with zero pause to evaluate Ngo’s threat status
C. Ngo gave no visual indication that he was a threat of any kind

This one is a bad shooting.

Indeed, is this really standard issue to the MPD?

Not surprised.

The Apple Valley PD carries either these or M-4 carbines in their cruisers.

Why?

Prairie dogs, I imagine.

No idea. I’m not a cop, nor do I pretend to be one.

I used to do ride-alongs regularly and I never saw anything like that gun. Its been several years though since I’ve been in a squad car.

My friend was the one cuffed and stuffed (due to the ignorance of five of Apple Valley’s finest) and he hadn’t achieved “gun nut” status back then (fall of 2000, I believe) so he wasn’t really too sure what make or model AV’s assault rifles are, but the description fit that of an M-4 carbine with a short barrel.

Not sure why the AV officer had it… SERT, maybe?

When I was a cop I had a MP5 in my squad at all times — every squad in the department I was at had one by policy. I don’t know MPDs policy, but it is not uncommon at all — a lot of departments have them.

I have a problem with them carrying so-called overkill calibers such as .40 and .45+, let alone SMGs. And from what it sounds, they don’t need any additional authorization to fling slugs of lead at over 800 rounds per minute towards you, which is a tad shocking (Just as shocking as quoting a rate of fire only an idiot would attempt to achieve with a 30 round magazine).

I guess he wasn’t authorized to carry it:

Storlie was investigated by the Police Department’s internal affairs unit to determine if it was appropriate for him to carry an MP5 machine gun in his squad, but he wasn’t disciplined.

When I was 18 or 19 and working as an auto porter, I had a mechanic call me over to his Ford Escort after work one day to show me his shiny new AK-47 under the hatch. When I asked him why he needed it he said (all kidding aside), “Mandela is coming to speak in Detroit, and he’s going to let them all loose”. That was an eye opening moment, to say the least.

The carrying of assault weapons is pretty common these days. You can thank the feds for doling out their military surplus to the local PDs. It’s the same reason the use of SWAT teams for for routine warrants have exploded in number. Got to find a use for all those weapons and armored vehicles or they might not get more in the future.

thanks, jim. that’s reassuring.

cops need assault rifles, they carried shotguns for way too long.
but an mp5? those things are not as accurate as other ARs.
many now carry ar-15s around here.

You mean “Very rarely, cops need assault rifles”, right? I can understand their use in subduing violent criminals in full body armor but…. how often does that happen in the TC?

how often does it happen in omaha nebraska? Not saying this kid could have been stopped, but had he continued on his spree and eventually been confronted by police, an AK-47 is no match for a glock 40.
all cops need accurate semi auto rifles for the ‘what-if’ scenarios.

I sure do with the bike cops carried them, they would be so much more effective…

have a problem with them carrying so-called overkill calibers such as .40 and .45+, let alone SMGs.
why?
The police need to be equipped for any scenario. that’s the point. I’m sure you remember the north hollywood shootout.

Omaha doesn’t really play into this though – he wasn’t wearing full body armor. And I’ll give you that sure, give them all semi-auto rifles, or SMGs locked into single shot mode – but a full auto?

It would be cool to not have a gun are evil vs. lets blow up some prairie dog debate again. Whaddya say we talk about the circus called the MPD instead?

baker is correct,the North Hollywood shootout made these weapons mandatory for departments across the country.

(don’t get me wrong, it could be a fun debate, but there’s just to many know-it-alls on this board with not enough facts to have a decent discussion. The MP5 was 9mm — and semi automatic)

the AR15s that most depts have are semi auto, not full auto.
the fully auto mp5 was unauthorized.

body armor or not, in order to challenge a person with a long rifle like the kid in omaha, you would also need an equivelant gun.

I carry a hand grenade in my purse at all times…

Unless you were Jeff Cooper.

the argument is really quite simple.
police need to be ready for any situation that may require a more accurate, more powerful weapon. the chances that they may use it are slim, but the chance is there.

how you feel about the types of weapons they have is what ‘doesn’t play into this.’

not trying to start anything, but I’m sure you understand the concept of preparedness, especially in public safety!

Oh, baker, you little shit-stirer, you!

MP5 is the preferred arm for operators in close quarters combat.

I would take the AR for ending, say, a murderous psycho’s miserable life in a department store.

With the great optics now available, it’s a “can’t miss” option.

the argument is really quite simple.
police need to be ready for any situation that may require a more accurate, more powerful weapon

So this would have been better if Mr. Ngo had a machine gun too?

Toting a sub gun while undercover is a bit difficult.

Again the MP5 is more suited to entry teams and close quarters combat.

Now, the new Panther DPMS in .308, that’s an indication of where “trunk guns” are going….

that was a horrible misjudgment made by the other officer.
the cover-up and disregard by the city is also inexcuseable.
but the issue I refer to here is solid.
I was really addressing Jpavleck’s assertion that police officers should not carry higher caliber, more accurate weapons in their squads.

Tell that to a hostage.

Want to see police AND bad guys using cool full auto stuff?

Watch the bank robbery in “Heat”.

And the scene where Pacino nails Sizemore.

And the scene where Pacino nails Sizemore.

Dirrrty…

Rowwwwwwwwwwwwwwr

I’ve never seen “Heat” but knowing that it’s a gay porn, I’ll probably rent it this weekend.

In the complete transcript of my interview with Duy Ngo, he explains why cops have the submachine guns.

That’s a tactical weapon, that he was supposed to be carrying locked up in the trunk, not in the compartment of the squad, not gerry-rigged in the Remington shotgun rack. It’s for active shooter situations and there was nobody actively shooting when they arrived, it’s for high-risk warrants, tactical entries, and per department policy, they have to notify dispatch or over the radio that they’re deploying that weapon. So he was in direct violation of department policy by using that weapon because had it been locked up in the trunk, like it was supposed to, then when they arrived and if he was to go grab his weapon, that would’ve given me, him, Conway, any of us enough time to identify me. And he broke one of the cardinal laws of deadly force: you have to identify your target.

This is verified with 7-904 ACTIVE SHOOTER POLICY – ERU PERSONNEL (09/07/01) from the MPD policy manual.

Did we forget so easily that Duy Ngo is a COP too? He was out there doing his job, police undercover work is a very dangerous and intense duty. Gangs and Narcotic make it even tougher.

Duy called for back up and gave all the necessary and required information to his back-up cops. It was their job to rescue him, NOT shoot him with a machine gun! If anyone read the whole interview, then you would all see that he said he Loves Police Work and that 10 percent of the cops make 90% of the problems.

Duy Ngo is the biggest supporter of the police…he laid his life on the line for all of us for years. He went after the ones who screwed him over, Not the whole police department.

I don’t know what you readers are reading or you listeners are hearing but you need to pay attention to his words. These are not the words of a bitter or cynical burned out man. It is the words of a motivated hard-working forgiving and fair person. What would any of you people do if you were in his shoes? The man gets his balls shot off and loses the use of one arm, then the pigs that are supposed to support him lie cheat and destroy his life. And he still wants to serve the public.

I am a retired Army veteran, I have been in combat. And the residential streets of Mpls are not a place to run around with machine guns. I am sure all the new police policies speak to the validity of Duy Ngo’s lawsuit and the fact that the council voted in Duy’s favor 11-1. If the cops had to come the aide of my family; I don’t want them bringing machine guns, especially if the shoot other cops. It is my understanding in researching the Internet, Charles Storlie has shot someone else too, a black male teenager. Storlie shot him in the back (like a coward) with a shotgun for carrying a water pistol in the kids own home. Did he give that kid a verbal warning, or did he do the same thing and just shoot him without any good reason?

I support good cops, I do Not support bad cops. I am a former military fighting man myself and I know all to well the dangers of warfare. Residential neighborhoods are not warzone or semi-warzones or anything like it. There are kids, babies, elderly people and women and children in their homes. Soldiers and cops are not supposed to shoot their own people and the cannot break the laws.

Obviously the court of appeals thought that it was unconstitutional to use deadly force against any person laying on the street, injured and calling for help.

I don’t know why you felt the need to bold all that, philkep, but please don’t do that.

I was wondering about that. I thought it was a glitch.

Thanks for turning it down, Max. My ears were starting to bleed.

Does it matter it it was bold faced….It must be a problem with my microsoft word program. I cut and pasted it.

It makes it harder to read.

Sorry, it wont happen again

Humm…it failed to mentioned just one thing here.

Didn’t you guys know that this MP5 was loaded? ( That is if I understand this is what had happened). If you want a fruitful debate, I would suggest you either to call the MPD for the policy about MP5 or search the policy on the net. I did. And it floored me. Even at this moment, my stomach still flip over. Go read the policy. You will be as sick as I am, ( if you are normal like I am and not be flipped, I’d be worrying about you).

Boiling rage. Damn proud of Duy Ngo for his courage to break blue code of silence.

Ellie

Storlie violate department policy nad state and federal laws and statutes. None of the requirements were present for Storlie to shoot a cop. Here is a link to the MPD police policy manual and a copy of why he was not supposed to carry that machine gun in the passenger area of the squadcar.

http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/mpdpolicy/7-900/7-900.asp#P94_7168

7-904 ACTIVE SHOOTER POLICY – ERU PERSONNEL (09/07/01)

(B-D)

In response to a nationwide increase of active shooter incidents, and incidents where suspects use high-powered, high-capacity assault rifles while committing crimes, qualified MPD Emergency Response Unit (ERU) personnel shall be required to carry with them the following equipment in addition to standard squad equipment.

ERU assigned tactical weapon
Ballistic helmet
Level III tactical vest
This equipment shall be placed in the trunk of the ERU officers police vehicle at the start of his/her patrol shift and removed at the end of the shift. If the equipment is needed at a scene, the ERU officer will advise MECC of his/her arrival at the scene with tactical weapons and equipment. If an Operation 100 has been called, the tactical decisions will be made by the on-scene ranking ERU member in concert with incident command. If an Operation 100 has not been called, the highest ranking department member at the scene shall command the incident. The equipment shall not be removed unless at least one of the following circumstances is present:

The ERU officer is responding to an active shooter situation where gunfire is present at the time of the officers arrival at the scene. An active shooter situation is defined as an ongoing or continuing act where the perpetrator is actively assaulting others with a firearm or deadly weapon.
The ERU officer is responding to, or is present at, an Operation 100.
The ERU officer is requested to participate in a high-risk search warrant entry or high-risk building search during their patrol shift.
MPD personnel shall remain cognizant of the fact that in many active shooter incidents, innocent lives are lost within the first few minutes of the incident. In some situations, this dictates the need to rapidly assess the situation and act quickly in order to save lives.

It looks like Mple police department has continued to discriminate against minorities. There are 5 black police officers suing for discrimination. There is an Asian family in north Mpls that just got their house shot full of holes and there were 6 children in the home. All the police department offers is “it was a mistake?” How many mistakes can they make at the cost of peoples lives. 22 bullet holes were in the home and thank God nobody was hurt or killed. How often has the Mpls police department made mistakes on search warrants. How many times do innocent have die for the police to do a better job. They said there was a language barrier; thats why the home owner shot at the police. If I recall correctly, the police said Duy Ngo does not speak English very well so they shot him because they couild not understand him. It is a racist statement to assume that a minority cannot speak english properly, only because they are minorities. How can we trust the Mpls police to treat us equally if they already assume that minorities are a class beneath them, or that they can do a sloppy and incompetant job over and over again. Why can’t the police department hire and retain more women and minority police officers to accurately reflect the demographics of the neighborhoods that the cops patrol?
I am close friends with Duy Ngo’s wife and all of us have watched him suffer for 5 years now. He is a very brave and honorable man to refuse to allow; anyone even his lawyers fo “play the race card.” Although I know there are many racist cops on the force; Duy never let that become a tool or weapon for any politician, lawyer or activist to use to further thier own interests. Everyone who know Duy, knows that he loves the brotherhood of law enforcement, even after his own co-workers have betrayed and abandonned him. Duy has a huge heart and would give you the shirt off his back. His parents are the kindest people I have ever met, and his wife is the woman that every man dreams of, beautiful, smart, tough, strong and very down to earth. Duy could have pushed this all the way to a trial and most likely won alot more mone y. Duy just wants his life back. He still wants to be a cop, although I can’t imagine why. I can’t even imagine the strength for one man to endure 26 surgeries, years of physical therapy, and almost lose his life, home and career because of a trigger-happy/shoot first, ask questions later poor judgemental cop(Storley). Everyone needs to remember this, Duy never wanted to sue the MPLS police, he gave them every opportunity to “Do the right thing.” Instead they lied about their investigation and Covered-up the whole thing to hide their mistakes. I hope Duy and his fine family finds a small amount of peace in this long ordeal…We are all very proud of you my friend…Rock On Duy!!!!

Here is what a Police Captain in California wrote to http://WWW.MPR.ORG

It’s shameful when the chief of his department and the mayor don’t even come to see him. It’s pretty much standard procedure and a simple act of consideration. If my chief or I didn’t visit a wounded officer the union would go nuts.

It sounds like this officer was left high and dry by his department and some fellow officers. I’ve been a Capt. for a while in So Cal and I’m disgusted by such incompetance and indifference.

For the sake of Minneapolis and it’s law abiding citizens I hope the department has changed and have done a thorough examination of their policies. Its not difficult to recognize the bad apple on your squad or during your watch.

A trained officer knows that positive identification is essential and a rudimentary police skill. The officer was in the direct line of sight and headlights of the squad car. How could you not see him? Why would you just discharge your weapon on an unarmed person?

These are simple police procedures. Perhaps there is much more than just incompetence going on here.

Hopefully they have gotten their act together by now. If not, they just might get some more unwanted attention, but this time it won’t only be from the media but from one big bureaucracy that will surely disrupt department cohesiveness. Here’s a hint three letters; first one starts with a D and the last one ends with a J.

I just hope citizens aren’t discouraged and don’t loose faith in honorable LEOs who put their lives on the line every time they put on the badge.

Posted by Bobby K. | December 8, 2007 12:25 AM

Look MPD scandals make number 4 of top daily mole stories of the year.

4. Race and reaction at the MPD: Ill start by quoting what I posted the other day at Talk in nominating the MPD for local villain of the year: Besides the usual quotient of embarrassing high-profile incidentsthis months utterly unfounded, gunfire-filled raid on a north Minneapolis home, the citys $4.5 million payout to Officer Duy Ngo, shot in 2003 by one of his own colleaguesthe department was also hit by a pair of civil rights lawsuits alleging chronic prejudicial treatment of non-Anglo cops, the more publicized of which is pitting five of the departments longest-tenured and most respected African-American officers against MPD Chief Tim Dolan. But I did neglect to mention the departments overtime pay troubles (which, of course, are tied up with its cronyism problem), and that Lt. Bob Krollwho was promoted by Dolan even as numerous ranking black cops were being demoted or transferredtook a turn in the spotlight after reportedly calling Rep. Keith Ellison a terrorist.

I hope MPD gets it act together in 2008. I would be a shame if they dont learn from this year’s mistakes.