Secrets of the City

Streets need to be cleared, that’s a given (I hope). $100 per tow is not uncommon, even in rural Minnesota, so it seems that the market will support that amount. The extra $34 for government fees is to be expected. If it is found that towing is not performed uniformly across all neighborhoods, or that certain areas are targeted, well then someone’s nads need to be put in a vice (figuratively, of course).

More than likely the towing companies do just stay close to their local impound lot, it just makes good business sense if they are not explicitly told to spread the joy to other neighborhoods.

It seems to be all about the money to him. It’s about keeping he streets clean.

The rules are not difficult. This is supposedly the literate city in the country.

So read a little.

Ooh! Ooh! I know! Let’s vote with our dollars! If this is all about not giving the towing company money, let’s boycott them! Let’s all follow the snow emergency parking rules! Yeah! Then they won’t get any extra money!

Seriously. There’s a huge snow “island” on my street where someone was parked during plowing and never got towed. I hate that.

This is supposedly the literate city in the country.

Oh man, there’s only one left? People need to shut off the TV.

And I agree: snow rules=easy to follow.

The lack of uniformally towing cars, however, shows that many, many times streets get plowed while cars are still sitting on the innappropriate side of the street.

Yay! another conspiricy based on no evidence! The rules as they stand today aren’t difficult and make sense. Streets need to be cleared within a reasonable amount of time and if you can’t figure out the rules then perhaps you shouldn’t be driving to begin with.

ahhhhh…the suburbs.

Sign up for the alerts, they explain it all. And a $100 tow is tons better than a $200 cash-only boot like you’ll get at the SA on 22nd & Lyndale if you leave the lot.

I really hate it when people living in the suburbs complain that it took over 3 hours for them to get home on the bus from downtown. Hello! I’ve known that for years. That’s why you don’t live in one city and work in another. It took me 30 minutes to get home last night. I walked over the log jammed buses on 11th Street with no problems whatsoever!

It took me about 30-40 minutes to get from the U over to the Metrodome LRT stop yesterday by bus. Astounding traffic jams with the weather, but really, what are you going to do? I chilled, got out a book and read, and when I got down to the city I disembarked and skyway’d to Target for some groceries, and then as far as I could to catch my second bus to Uptown and home. Saved some time and I stayed a bit warmer for longer.

What I’m confused by is why Minnesota, a state that gets a good bit of snow on average, is so completely and utterly unprepared for clearing the roads when the snow does come.

I understand that the fiscally conservative governor is looking to keep the budget as balanced as possible while funding stadiums left and right but there has to be a point when someone says, “fuck, we’re morons when it comes to snow removal.”

I have lived in ares where the yearly average snowfall is the same as Minnesota’s record snowfall and yet every day the roads were pristine and no one ever drove with snow under their tires. Yet here, after nearly 10 hours without any new accumulating snowfall the roads remain unplowed and glare ice abounds.

Here we’re bitching about forced towing when we should be storming the capitol in our snowshoes with torches blazing, to keep warm of course, to get this serious problem fixed.

Let’s vote with our dollars! If this is all about not giving the towing company money, let’s boycott them! Let’s all follow the snow emergency parking rules! Yeah! Then they won’t get any extra money!

That’s brilliant.

My bus commute was 142 minutes last night, or roughly 12:54 minutes per mile. Like the guy said, have reading material and chill (if you’re lucky enough to not have to stand).

I e-mailed Taylor with a minor correction to his financial analysis.
The ticket revenue is split. You pay $34. The city gets $24, county $6, state $4.

The tow costs you $138. There are 5 contractors working 6 zones in the city. Two of those are year-round contractors with the city; and as I recall, they charge like $54 and $65. (Exact numbers in this story) The other four zones charge rates ranging from $126 to $157.50. The city loses money on 2 zones, I believe. They “make” money on the year-round guys. But they use that money to staff the impound lot, and claim that towing is a “break-even” proposition.

I’ve been towed from a private lot before and had to pay $300 for it. $138 doesn’t seem like a price intended to gouge.

yet every day the roads were pristine and no one ever drove with snow under their tires

I find that hard to believe.

What I’m confused by is why Minnesota, a state that gets a good bit of snow on average, is so completely and utterly unprepared for clearing the roads when the snow does come.

This is Minnesota, learn how to drive in the snow. What’sa matter, pookie, did some bad man tow away your car? Boo hoo!

Minnesota still ranks high in my book for snow removal. It wall depends where you live. In Minneapolis and Saint Paul, the snow removal is pretty lousy, in my opinion. Out in the suburb I live in, it’s great — they were out about midnight to clean up the 4-5 inches we got yesterday.

All in all, I think the MNDOT crews do a good job clearing the highways — yesterday was just a mess, the snow coming when it did. When the highways are crammed and at a near dead stop, the plows can’t do their jobs effectively. I can’t blame Pawlenty for that one.

I believe it took about an hour to go from 10th and Nicollet to get over the 3rd street bridge last night. The main culprit?

People that block intersections with their cars. I sat and watched my bus have to wait for 3 lights just to cross one intersection because one car was blocking the intersection. They need to put out foot patrols to just hand out tickets to cars blocking intersections. People need to feel it in their pocketbooks then they are inconsiderate assholes and breaking the law.

They need to put out foot patrols to just hand out tickets to cars blocking intersections.

I was thinking the same thing last night at the lyndale/hennepin clusterfuck in between uptown and downtown.

poow wittle baby got his panties in a bunch because he fucked up and is out some cash.

wah wah wah. the whole point of a punitive pecuniary fine is that it’s meant to discourage a certain kind of behaviour. next time be more careful where you put your car and quit trying to rally the rabble with your ridiculous whining.

I concur with the “assholes blocking intersections” business, and furthering on the idea that the weather is crap, you’ll get home eventually, just chill out and help things go smoother. Wait for the next light, don’t try to scoot through on a yellow when there is no place for you to scoot to! I was very pleased I was not in a car yesterday evening, though.

oh, and assholes block intersections downtown during rush hour no matter what the weather. It’s part of the joy of taking the bus in this city.

They need to put out foot patrols to just hand out tickets to cars blocking intersections.

Amen. That was THE problem last night in DTSTP and along Marshall Avenue. FUCKING MORONS. The other problem when it snows during the day like that is the plows don’t get run of the road like they need to to be effective.

I think the various Chamber groups or someone should to get together and workout some sort of metro-wide business snow emergency plan that lets workers leave early or work late or something to stagger the massive influx of rush hour.

Assholes blocking traffic? University & Snelling, rush hour. You’ll never get through!

I just wish I would have found a job in St Paul, so I wouldn’t have this commute. Hell, I normally take December, January and February off to avoid all this – I just drink. But the money was to good this time and I have to much to do to take it off

Though I might rethink that

they kicked us out of the building at 3 yesterday because of the snow, but on my walk home I noticed the traffic was already looking pretty nasty by then. When I went somewhere else at 5 it was ridiculous (although I of course had a good self-righteous snicker at the expensive of everyone stuck in traffic as I passed by them on foot).

expensive?

uhh, ok wayne.

expense.

Wow. It’s like a smugness clusterfuck up in here.

First of all, nothing in the Mediation article stated anything about Taylor getting towed. I find interesting that some of us are guffawing about inability to read when we’re not even getting the gist of the article. I also love that we’re mocking others’ misfortunes, but if it were one of us I doubt we would come on here and state, “Yeah, I was dumb and I didn’t how to read. Paying $120 bucks isn’t that big of a deal. Guess I’ll just have to do better next time!”

The Snow Emergency rules and regulations need to be streamlined and the snow removal plans and procedures need to be improved. Though some might think that the parking guidelines for the snow emergencies are easy to follow, they are still a pain in the ass. Rather than dump and insult someone who is calling out for some creative solutions, perhaps we could actually try something positive on these boards for a change and think it out.

PS – Wayne, do you specifically seek out posts about driving so you can sit in smug superiority over the fact that you bike and ride the bus? I dig ya, kid, but sometimes…

Yes, yes I do.

No, not really. But when they come up, I see no reason to hold my tongue!

Also:
but if it were one of us I doubt we would come on here and state, “Yeah, I was dumb and I didn’t how to read. Paying $120 bucks isn’t that big of a deal. Guess I’ll just have to do better next time!”

Why not? This is exactly what people should do, because it’s the healthy own-up-to-your-mistakes-and-take-responsibility way to deal with the situation. Everyone screws up sometimes, just suck it up and accept the consequences.

The city of minneapolis does suck horrible ass at actually plowing streets, though. I’m amazed how many side streets haven’t even been touched yet.

Wayne has a few tropes and he’s sticking to them.

I am solidly one-dimensional. Don’t try to go around the sides, I’ll just disappear.

My buddy called from Chicago last night. He just moved there in April, so this is his first winter. He lives just south of the loop, by UIC, and this weekend after the storm there were chairs and tables and stuff stuck in the snow in front of his place. One of the neighbor ladies told him that people are responsible for shoveling their own parking spaces. That the city does what it can, but it doesn’t babysit. And then she told him to never take somebody else’s spot, and that if somebody takes your spot, walk away. Because people get shot over spaces.

also, the initial post just put me in a bad spirit, becuase I hate how everyone who lives in uptown seems to think the city revolves around uptown.

Snow emergencies are lose lose for cities. If they don’t tow the vehicles, people complain about the huge mound of snow left behind when the plows go around. If they tow them, the get complaints about the towing. Perhaps, there should be no parking on the streets at all. That would eliminate the problem.

Though some might think that the parking guidelines for the snow emergencies are easy to follow, they are still a pain in the ass.

Where’s the pain in moving a vehicle from one side of the street to the other?

I, for one, didn’t figure he got towed.

I’d tell as few as possible if I was towed. I’d be too embarrassed

What happens to the person that goes out of town for the weekend/week and has to leave their car on the street? Do they just have to pray it doesnt snow?

In Madison, on snow days the tow company will tow your car 2-3 blocks away to an open street and just give you a $90 ticket. That sounds pretty reasonable to me. More $ for the goverment, less $ for towing companies, and less hassle for drviers. Win, Win, Win!

And then she told him to never take somebody else’s spot, and that if somebody takes your spot, walk away. Because people get shot over spaces.

Spots are marked with any piece of trash someone can find, and the lady is right: people will fight/hurt you for them. It’s pretty common in pretty much every big city where it snows. Even smaller cities in new england get that way, though.

So Im going to take to the streets with the most powerful, most effective form of polictical action available: the online petition.

Now that’s funny.

Since this is my first winter in the Mnspeak orbit, I have to ask — are there threads bitching about Snow Emergencies every time one is declared, or will these last two be the yearly crop?

Perhaps, there should be no parking on the streets at all. That would eliminate the problem.

yes please. Widen the sidewalk or something. Add a bike lane. Even just put a grassy median in.

without street parking drivers might start to realize how much tax dollars subsidize their way of life and be more willing to cough some up for alternatives.

Wayne, Taylor doesn’t live in uptown. He also wasn’t talking about uptown or any area specifically.

no, but what about the MNSpeak post about it? What’s this garbage about:

Should our streets be not as cleanly cleared in the greater uptown area?

uptown can suffocate under its own pretention for all I care.

Well, you could leave a key with a friend and ask them to move your car if it snows.

Since this is my first winter in the Mnspeak orbit, I have to ask — are there threads bitching about Snow Emergencies every time one is declared, or will these last two be the yearly crop?

Just as the weathermen shit themselves with glee at the first sign of snow, and the graphics departments at television news stations get their “BLIZZARD 2k7″ graphics ready, MNSpeak is there to bitch about the snow emergency parking regulations every year.

My standard commute is 16 minutes. Took me that long just to get the 5 blocks out of DT…the rest was smooth sailing.

Since this is my first winter in the Mnspeak orbit, I have to ask — are there threads bitching about Snow Emergencies every time one is declared, or will these last two be the yearly crop?

Can’t… stop… laughing…

mjm, a snow emergency is just one of several recycled topics.

What I’m confused by is why Minnesota, a state that gets a good bit of snow on average, is so completely and utterly unprepared for clearing the roads when the snow does come.

Much of outstate doesn’t have this issue. Duluth, for example, is one of the best plowed cities in the state, they get more snow than we do, and they’re on a giant hill.

Snelling and Universtiy IS bad for that, jpavlek. That’s why I switched to Lexington. Besides, going through Como Park every day is a bonus.

Minneapolis and St Paul are horrible about plowing becuase they’re broke.

They’re broke because the governor hates them and took all their money away. Also the suburbs sap a lot of money out of the core.

Plowing costs money, and both cities have a lot of roads that need plowing and not a lot of money to do it with. Actually, now that I think about it, I’m surprised they don’t make us dig ourselves out.

I’m still amused and intrigued by traffic cops standing in the middle of intersections with ticket printers in hand, slapping those happy red striped envelopes on the windshields of morons who tried to race the yellow light and are now holding up cross traffic. Hee!

I like uptown. I think it’s great.

Where’s the pain in moving a vehicle from one side of the street to the other?

Hmm…let’s see…checking every day to make sure of the parking rules, living on a snow emergency route so that means finding a cross street to park on, then checking the cross street to figure out which side of the street you can park on, dealing with having to park amongst the fifty other people whose cars are also immigrating to the curb, then walking five blocks back to your house…pain. ass. It’s in there.

I like the towing system in Madison.

What happens to the person that goes out of town for the weekend/week and has to leave their car on the street? Do they just have to pray it doesnt snow?

I’d be careful when doing that in any weather. Some Minne neighborhood cops chalk tires and have cars that haven’t been moved in two days towed.

Amber’s point is right: I can’t imagine the city likes the current set-up either. They used to just have their 2 year-round tow contractors tow, it was about 40 trucks, and people called and complained that they wanted MORE towing.

So now there’s more towing. But you can’t tow yourself out of the problem. And there will always be people who want to roll the dice (risking the tow, and sucking up the ticket), and people who are so self-absorbed that they don’t even know about the snow emergency.

It’s hard to think of what the city could do differently that would please everyone. Personally, I think plowing residential streets overnight would make sense– and let people park at schools and churches in the neighborhoods after 7pm. Then plow from 7pm-the morning.

Get everyone off the streets.

The way I see it: the snow emergency plan gives people an out. You still get to park on the street. Maybe there should be NO street parking when there’s 3 inches of snow or more.

Yup yup, I usually get off at Dale, but if traffic is really bad I get off at Lexington. I used to get off at 10th street, but all that roadwork makes it pointless – plus a little drive down University isn’t so bad.

What happens to the person that goes out of town for the weekend/week and has to leave their car on the street? Do they just have to pray it doesnt snow?

Yes, if they are someone who believes in the efficacy of prayer. Otherwise, you could leave your keys with a friend.

Snow emergencies are lose lose for cities. If they don’t tow the vehicles, people complain about the huge mound of snow left behind when the plows go around. If they tow them, the get complaints about the towing.

How true. I’d be livid if a fire truck or an ambulance couldn’t get through because the streets weren’t sufficiently plowed because people’s cars weren’t towed when they should have been.

The Madison idea is interesting: but where is there an open street 3-4 blocks away? And how do people know where to go to find their cars? Just start walking around looking?

Everyone on here is starting to sound like my dad. “Oh, you don’t like your midnight curfew? You say it’s too hard for you to make it in on time because midnight is too early? Well, maybe then I’ll just move it to ten and see how you like it then!“

Hmm…let’s see…checking every day to make sure of the parking rules, living on a snow emergency route so that means finding a cross street to park on, then checking the cross street to figure out which side of the street you can park on, dealing with having to park amongst the fifty other people whose cars are also immigrating to the curb, then walking five blocks back to your house…pain. ass. It’s in there.

Well, maybe owning a car is a responsibility and a privledge rather than a right. Maybe it doesn’t have to be easy to suit your every need. Maybe the world already does enough to bend over backwards to make driving the easiest way to get around and can’t bend any further back for you.

Amber, I see where you’re coming from with it being a pain, and that the system might need an overhaul, but the city does give you a lot of ways to be informed. The snow website, the phone line, the emails you can have sent to you, radio information, text messages. They also have the interactive map on the website that not only shows you where the snow emergency routes are in your neighborhood, but what Day 1, 2, and 3 parking would look like.

My place doesn’t have any off-street parking, so being aware of the snow emergency parking rules was part of the responsibility I took on. I’m not on an emergency route, but the streets to the east and west of me both are, so I know there are going to be a lot of people from there trying to park on my street. Snow emergencies aren’t convenient or fun, and sometimes you have to park a ways and get ready for a hike.

mjm, a snow emergency is just one of several recycled topics.

I guessed as much. I just couldn’t find the [rhetorical][/rhetorical] tags.

Personally, I think plowing residential streets overnight would make sense– and let people park at schools and churches in the neighborhoods after 7pm. Then plow from 7pm-the morning.

Jason, while that’s a good idea in theory, have you been to many neighbourhoods in the city lately? Churches and schools don’t have the same kind of parking lots here as they do in the suburbs, and there’s a lot more people with a lot more cars to try to cram in there. I mean, look at Marcy-Holmes. There’s a bunch of churches, but nary a parking lot. The elementary school has so few spots, I’m curious where the teachers even park. The only parking lots of any reasonable size around there are pay-to-park lots and ramps, most of which don’t allow overnight parking, especially since they have to plow their own lot.

Marge: Aren’t you coming, Ed?
Ed Begley Jr: I prefer a vehicle that doesn’t hurt Mother Earth. It’s a go-
cart, powered by my own sense of self-satisfaction.
[Begley attaches a wired-helmet to his head and quickly
drives off]

The Simpsons, Episode AABF09, “Homer to the Max“

Where’s the pain in moving a vehicle from one side of the street to the other?

Um, it’s a pain because everyone else is trying to move their car at the exact same time. There’s only so much street to park cars on, and snoe emergencies are half the space for the same amount of vehicles. I can drive around my neighborhood looking for parking for twenty minutes without snow emergency rules. For my two cents, I don’t get the whole odd-even thing. Why not just plow the whole street while you’re there? I’m curious as to what the reasoning is behind that.

Oh my GOD, Wayne. SHUT UP. I would be delighted to walk everywhere and take the bus, or bike. However, at this point in time, it is not realistic nor logical for me to do so. I understand that the pain in others’ asses concerning snow emergencies is not comparable to Darfur or the Sudanese conflict, and to be fair, I was only trying to illustrate the point of why snow emergencies are a pain (I have a garage I can park behind, and a few other backup plans) rather than personally complain about it. I know that I, like many others, will suck up the circumstances and deal until another solution can be found. In the meantime, though, maybe you should consider pulling that wad out of your anus so you can relax for a minute.

Unsilent, you seem genuinely nice, and it was very considerate of you to list all of the snow emergency resources…though I do feel badly that you made the effort to do that, since I’m already aware of all of them, and as I explained to Wayne, I was illustrating a possible scenario instead of my own personal snow emergency experiences. I’m appreciative of the effort, though.

HA! You think that’s bad! On the first night of the snow emergency, my condo board told us to move our cars out of the parking lot so it could be plowed. We had to park in the street during the snow emergency. What’s the point of having a parking lot then?! ARGH!

Jason, no parking on the street at all pretty much screws people with no access to off-street parking, who tend to be apartment dwellers. When I moved to Mpls from the SF Bay Area I didn’t drive for two years. Now I have a car (it made hauling the baby to child care less of a chore) but no garage. I learned the hard way how to be alert for snow emergencies and the annual leaf vacuuming event. Yes, I am one of those people who is “stupid and doesn’t know how to read” (or an inexperienced out-of-towner, take your pick), and I spent three hours outside in line at the impound lot when it was -13 with several hundred other people, most of them poorer than I am, the last time (the very last time!) I got towed. I was flabbergasted to find out how little of the money actually went to the city. If the city is going to have us towed, it should at least be raking in the bucks instead of the tow companies!

I do want my street to be well plowed because when it’s not, those of us who have to park on the street have to deal with rock hard berms of snow left by the plows. But I remember how much my feet hurt after the first hour of standing in that line, and feel some compassion for the folks who, for whatever reason, were unlucky enough to get towed.

I would be delighted to walk everywhere and take the bus, or bike. However, at this point in time, it is not realistic nor logical for me to do so.

Holla. I enjoy leaving a ten block radius from time to time.

Also, I hate to pull this card, but I pay taxes and fees related to my car ownership that help fund the care and upkeep of roadways. I think that does deserve a wee bit of consideration.

There’s only so much street to park cars on,

so we need fewer cars.

and amber, sheesh. I’m just sick of everyone thinking the world needs to cater to the needs of their car. life isn’t easy, and there’s no reason to expect getting around and finding a public place to store your giant metal box should be easy or free. I’m just railing against the sense of entitlement drivers seem to possess in general, not you specifically.

It’s no problem, Amber – I was just yammering off the resources from memory since I am kind of nuts about checking on them. With my finances a bit shaky, I am very aware of how much I can’t afford a tow!

I think the bigger point I was trying to make, though, was that a lot of the hassle for folks in snow emergencies can be taken out just by being prepared, using the resources available, and chilling out.

The most stressful snow emergency experiences I had were when I was in Loring Park, where almost everything IS an emergency route, there is almost zero off-street parking, competition for the side streets is vicious, and the snOasis option at the Hyatt is pretty harsh when you have to get your car out by 7am, but not be at work until a while later. Happy not to have to deal with any of that again.

sorry josie, those taxes and fees don’t even come close to paying for the care and upkeep of the roads. and when it comes to local services like plowing, you can think our good buddy TPaw for fucking the city budget like a cheap whore.

also, the initial post just put me in a bad spirit, becuase I hate how everyone who lives in uptown seems to think the city revolves around uptown.

Actually, I’m pretty sure it does. I think there’s a perception that uptown gets plowed faster because so many top-priority streets run through it. Hennepin, Lyndale, Lake, 26, 28, Nicollet even if you go that far. Trust me, you get off into your 27th and Girard areas and snow don’t get plowed fast, if at all.

And I can’t believe I’m siding with wayne against Amber. There’s just no excuse for getting your car towed in a snow emergency, no matter how screwy the rules are.

Since this is my first winter in the Mnspeak orbit, I have to ask — are there threads bitching about Snow Emergencies every time one is declared, or will these last two be the yearly crop?

I like this mjm guy.

Should our streets be not as cleanly cleared in the greater uptown area?
uptown can suffocate under its own pretention for all I care.

My experience is that Uptown isn’t all that greatly plowed. *shrug*

I think the main point is that the towing/ticketing/plowing is not applied uniformly and as specified in all parts of town. I think it’s fair to say that there aren’t many people that get unjustly towed; every violator should be getting towed and they’re not.

yeah the other thing that bothered me was that my recollection of uptown in the winter was that all the sidestreets are miserable messes come wintertime.

but then, I don’t really go there much.

oh, and:

think it’s fair to say that there aren’t many people that get unjustly towed; every violator should be getting towed and they’re not.

Yes!
This is just a matter of inadequate resources. The towing companies can only tow so many cars at a time. It’s not like there’s discrimination going on, it’s just a logistical problem.

I’m going to have to agree with Wayne and Kevin. If you own a car and don’t have access to off-street parking, it’s your responsibility to know and follow the snow emergency rules, just as it is your responsiblity to know and follow traffic rules. You don’t get a pass if you are caught doing 80mph in a 40mph zone just because you didn’t know what the speed limit was. The streets have to be plowed, so you have to move your car. It’s not rocket science. Take some responsibility for the choices that you make, and suck it up and pay the fine if you neglect to follow the WELL POSTED rules.

The fleet of tow trucks required to tow everyone uniformly would be out of control. The city told me they tow “priority” areas first. They go to lower priority areas once a year, just to remind people that they’re serious about the rules. Like Taylor, I’d like to see the tow locations plotted on a map. I’ll work on it.

HA! You think that’s bad! On the first night of the snow emergency, my condo board told us to move our cars out of the parking lot so it could be plowed. We had to park in the street during the snow emergency.

I posted this the other day but I don’t think anyone saw it.

SnOasis Parking in Minneapolis

You can park for free in some Minneapolis City Ramps the first night of a snow emergency. The Loring ramp and the Elliot Park ramps are just two of several.

is there a database anywhere of tow locations? it would be really easy to make a google maps mashup with the data if there were.

On Uptown: the sidestreets are a mess, it’s true.

@tara_r: I am also on this responsibility boat! I was pleased to see the hojillion ways the city had for me to get notified when they declared a snow emergency, and for me to find out about what would happen well beforehand.

I’m not saying I don’t follow the parking rules. I do. I’m just saying it gets difficult when you have half the space to park as many cars in. And it sucks, and it’s just one of those things about living here. However, it really bugs me that they don’t tow everyone who violates the rules.

Wayne, I’m well aware that my sixty dollar registration fee doesn’t pay for every road in the state. Thanks for the update, though.

I liked what Joanna had to say and how she said it. Snaps to her.

Wayne, I know how you feel about cars. Now you know how I feel about my car. But thank you, for your clarification.

I pay taxes and fees related to my car ownership that help fund the care and upkeep of roadways. I think that does deserve a wee bit of consideration.

On the other hand, Josie, I do not pay the taxes and fees related to my car ownership (I have moral objections to it), and am mostly just hoping fervently that I don’t get towed so that nobody catches on.

Our apartment manager told us to do that one year, simpleton so the skid loader could scloop out our lot. I said no, I will not move my car and scoop out myself whatever the tractor cannot get to because of it.

Later that day, I scooped out a quarter of the lot better than the tractor did. I have big muscles.

The snOasis is actually $2 for overnight parking.

I know they haven’t towed anyone in my neighborhood (Waite Park) in the last seven years or so I have lived there. I don’t even think they take the time to ticket. I’m guessing the heaviest tow areas are very close to the impound lot were the tow trucks can turn the most trips the fastest.

It would take a tow truck probably an hour or an hour and a half to tow one car from my street to the impound lot and return for the next. Especailly when the roads suck. From Uptown I bet they can turn 3-4 cars an hour.

I’m just saying it gets difficult when you have half the space to park as many cars in. And it sucks, and it’s just one of those things about living here. However, it really bugs me that they don’t tow everyone who violates the rules.

Preach!

no, josie, my point was that your gas taxes/registration fees/etc. AND everyone else’s are still not enough to cover the cost of building and maintaining roads. there is no place in america where user fees actually completely cover the cost of automobile infrastructure. money always comes out of the general fund and is paid in part by people who can’t even use it.

Wayne:

Do you get much enjoyment or satisfaction out of the bicycle lifestyle you’ve adopted?

I walk a lot too! Don’t you forget it!

I’m not sure if many of you remember a few years ago but in the late 90’s they would institute parking on only one side of the street in Uptown for the remainder of the winter because the crust had built up so much on the sides that emergency vehicles couldn’t make it down the streets anymore. Talk about trouble finding a parking spot.

Normally I think wayno is a few sandwiches short of a picnic… however, I have to agree with him on this one. Choose to live in an area with limited parking, choose to deal with the snow emergencies. Deal with it, stop bitching, or move.

You know, I don’t have a car, and either bus or walk everywhere, unless it’s something like a trip to a grocery store, in which case my girlfriend and I take her car. But I never really talk about it.

I guess its the same way I’m a vegetarian but never really discuss that. Some people are just more militant than others.

Choose to live in an area with limited parking, choose to deal with the snow emergencies. Deal with it, stop bitching, or move.

And if you don’t like the war, you can just get the f*ck out of America, too!

Choose to live in an area with limited parking, choose to deal with the snow emergencies. Deal with it, stop bitching, or move.

And if you don’t like the war, you can just get the f*ck out of America, too!

and now I think Amber is crazy too.

yeah, I’m kind of noisily militant about the car thing, max. All I really want is a transit system I can actually use, and maybe for drivers to stop trying to run over me when I’m walking or biking.

but none of those things will happen, so I’m going to continue railing against the antagonists.

I’m not complaining, Wayno.

For my two cents, I don’t get the whole odd-even thing. Why not just plow the whole street while you’re there? I’m curious as to what the reasoning is behind that.

It wouldn’t be any different for parking b/ you still have the same amount of cars needing the same amount of space whether they’re half on one street, half on another or all on one street and none on the other.

Notice now that public opinion is decidedly against her, Amber is retreating from the veracity of her initial positions. Classic rhetorical backpedaling and I must say, she does it well. I see public office in this girl’s future!

j/k

I would like to hear about people who took the LRT yesterday. I would imagine that mode of transport would not have any problems in snow. The cars just self-plow themselves and keep going.

Buses on the other hand…..

Thus add more light rail!

Come on Central Corridor.

What are you talking about, Kevin? How can you backpedal from the position of “let’s talk about this, see what we can come up with to improve it”?!

I hardly think I’ve ever really gone out of my way to win public opinion on this forum. Or really, anywhere…

Yes, now that I think about it LRT is the only form of transport that is not affected by snow.

Walking, biking, autos, bus are all fucked. Sweet trains.

In other news Minneapolis ranked 17th out of 30 cities for most walkable. Quite detestable, considering Atlanta is #14.

hovercraft.

I was just joshin’ ya.

You know you’ve won my public opinion anyway.

actually underground rail is even better in the weather than surface-dwelling LRT.

oh right, but that’s expensive

In other news Minneapolis ranked 17th out of 30 cities for most walkable. Quite detestable, considering Atlanta is #14.

Actually I’m having a hard time trying to figure out who came in behind us. Detroit? LA? Houston?

It’s pretty bad here.

And if you don’t like the war, you can just get the f*ck out of America, too!

Now you’re talkin! Cranky Amber is great!

Here is a pdf of the most walkable city analysis quite detailed.

Here is a pic of the section which relates to us

oh joy, just behind st louis and just ahead of detroit.

what a lovely town!

Just searched for a link to the “most walkable” list. Gotta love the headline:
Eat it, Portland!

Stupid study. According to it the only people centers in our area are the two Downtowns. WTF? Uptown, Northeast, etc…

I guess if we don’t have cool names for them it doesn’t count.

At least this gives me an answer to the age-old question: What city is cooler Minneapolis(#17) or Pittsburg(#10).

Sigh…

yeah their methodology isn’t very thorough.

but this city still isn’t that walkable.

Are we really worse than these cities:

1. Washington

2. Boston

3. San Francisco

4. Denver

5. Portland

6. Seattle

7. Chicago

8. Miami

9. Pittsburgh

10. New York

11. San Diego

12. Los Angeles

13. Philadelphia

14. Atlanta

15. Baltimore

16. St. Louis

Don’t these places suck?

Atlanta, wtf? Miami wtf? Baltimore????

Man we blow, I am so disappointed, my elite, snobby self needs to know I live in a top, progressive US city.

Mpls Simpleton: The website doesn’t say how much SnOasis costs but I think its $25 bucks a year. You have to get a permit from City Hall to park in the Hyatt Ramp for free during the first daze of Snow Emergency and in the Loring Park neighborhood.

And you probably can’t get the permit if you don’t have a Loring Park address. Therefore, no SnOasis.

Are we really worse than these cities:

1. Washington
YES
2. Boston
DEFINITELY
3. San Francisco
YESSIREE
4. Denver
Most likely so
5. Portland
Yup.
6. Seattle
Yes again
7. Chicago
aaand a yes
8. Miami
Uhhh …
9. Pittsburgh
It could happen (Mc-Wooooooooorld!
10. New York
Duh.
11. San Diego
Ummmm, yeah I’m going to go with probably
12. Los Angeles
Eck, unless they’re talking about LA Proper. If they’re talking about the basin, hell no.
13. Philadelphia
Yup.
14. Atlanta
Uhh, they’ve got some pretty bad sprawl going on there too
15. Baltimore
It might be a dangerous shithole, but it’s a walkable one!
16. St. Louis
Ew.

I mean, this is just in terms of walkability. It’s not like I’d actually like to live in half of those places.

Whoa! Whoa!

I was hoping this thread would devolve into a suburbs vs. city argument. I live in Minneapolis and get to where I need to go without a car in under 30 minutes snow or no snow most of the time.

Minneapolis is not that bad.

It’s the suburbs that are the problem!!!

Can’t we just get all the obese kids to shovel the streets? The way I see it we’ll take care of two problems at once; childhood obesity and unplowed streets.

I wonder if there’s a way we can get this attached to the next public school funding referendum?

In Madison, on snow days the tow company will tow your car 2-3 blocks away to an open street and just give you a $90 ticket. That sounds pretty reasonable to me. More $ for the goverment, less $ for towing companies, and less hassle for drviers. Win, Win, Win!

Madison also enforces alternate side street parking every day from November 15-March 15, whether there’s snow on the ground or not. I don’t think people would like that situation.

The way I see it, there are really only 2 ways to deal with the snow. One is to have some sort of parking system that forces people to move their cars in a coordinated fashion so the streets can be fully plowed. This can be alternate side parking all the time or only during snow emergencies.

The other is for the city to just plow the center of the road, and have drivers dig out their cars and take care of the snow the plows couldn’t reach.

So pick your poison, people.

So pick your poison, people
Absynth. There’d be a lot less bitchin if the cities handed out Absynth during snow emergencies.

I think we need more taco stands in order to make the city more walkable.

You know what really bugs me? When you walk through a drive through fast food place late at night when only their drive through is open and they tell you that you have to be in a car to order.

lutefisk tacos?

lutefisk tacos?

This thread has reached its full potential.

I like the old tuna taco.

And you probably can’t get the permit if you don’t have a Loring Park address. Therefore, no SnOasis.

SnOasis ramp locations at Loring Park
Loring Ramp in Hyatt Hotel. (Loring Park Neighborhood) 1330 Nicollet Avenue. Enter from Nicollet Mall (by Grant Street intersection) Phone 612-333-7206

The cost is $2 for the overnight parking on the first day a Snow Emergency is declared. Enter After 4 leave before 7 am.

lutefisk tacos?

This thread has reached its full potential.

Its better than “you’re an idiot because you walk”, “well, you’re an idiot because you drive”.

Can’t we just get all the obese kids to shovel the streets?

There are so many good ideas here, I wish I could commission MNSpeak omnipotent capitol of the day.

We could live in Detroit!

Seems they don’t plow city streets at all!

Funk that.

I knew this thread was gonna be a winner.

And for the record, I think the current system works fine. Only the people who don’t leave their house, don’t have radio, tv, cell phone or email have an excuse for not knowing about the snow plowing. And if you don’t have those things, chances are you don’t have a car either.

or the people that travel alot for work or pleasure…

How about every plow their own section of the street. Kinda like is done with the sidewalks. Also no snowblowers, a shovel has to be used.

That would totally fun. Sign me up. Nice exercise for everyone, the city saves money. No one gets towed. Sounds like a plan to me.

The major streets can be taken care of by the city.

You know what really bugs me? When you walk through a drive through fast food place late at night when only their drive through is open and they tell you that you have to be in a car to order.

at risk of encouraging a seinfeldesque digression in this thread, this annoys the hell out of me too. It’s pretty rare I’m ever around a fast food place that late at night anyway (moreso that I want to order anything), but when it does happen I am positively livid about that ridiculous “rule.” Do they think someone in a car is any less likely to hold them up? Do drive-throughs even get held up that much anymore? In ok parts of town, at least?

Also, an amusing anecdote:
One evening some friends and I went through the mcdonald’s drive through in uptown (the driver being frand and occasional post/mostly lurker evan) and some random guy came up and asked us to take him through the drive through in exchange for a half-full bottle of jack daniels.

Which we did.

Also, an amusing anecdote:
I worked in a drive through when I was 15. You could have crawled to the window and I would have dished your food. Once I had a car full of drunks demand tea and crumpets for 25 cents.

They just kept shouting “tea and crumpets . . . twenty five cents” over and over so I took their quarter and gave them a bag full of fries.

I stood with two friends outside the Uptown Domino’s Pizza one night, on the phone with the guy inside, who we could see, trying to convince him to let us carry out. He refused, saying after a certain time they only deliver. I was like, deliver it to me, hi! But he wouldn’t.

I was like, deliver it to me, hi! But he wouldn’t.
The Dominos on Henn.? If so, they did that to us before too.

I got into a drunken shouting match with the employee at the Uptown McDonald’s drive through when a girlfriend and I tried to go through it on foot. When our regular cabbie came, we had him take us through instead.

Fast food restaurants don’t want foot traffic and drive-through windows for one reason. Liability. Some dumbass kid gets hit by a driver who isn’t paying attention and then sues the restaurant. Plain and simple.

It’s nice to see hard-line liberals on this threat to intentionally trash poor and lower middle class folks, regarding the outcome of last weekend snow storm and its impact on the entire metro community. Besides. both Minneapolis and Saint Paul had done a lousy job on plowing the city streets after the snow falls; the towing idea is another shining example why liberalism economics don’t work in dealing with fiscal restraint.

Well cry me a fucken river you leftist loons. It’s your damn fault for no be able to cut back on your own pork spending projects, after the Governor took away LGA from your dirty hands.

In fact, why you yuppie control freaks move to Communist China. I heard they are evicting over a million people before the Olympics arrive in Beijing in 2008 because they don’t want to look bad, regarding human right violations.

Well cry me a fucken river you leftist loons.

Awesome parody.

a pedestrian got smoked @ McDonalds on Eat Street 2 years ago…that’s why.

exactly. didn’t jd cover that?

One of my cars has a big V8 4.0 liter engine. I sometimes let it idle outside my garage for a half hour or so, and then rev it up about a dozen times before I leave. On my way to the office downtown, I’ll stop and get low octane fuel. I do all this just for Wayne.

Where do you live TaulPaul?

It’s illegal to leave a running car unattended.
I just need you address to call 311.

I’m sure there are many people that would love to “borrow” your unattended car also.

):<

I’ll borrow your car into the river.

but when it does happen I am positively livid about that ridiculous “rule.”

I think it’s ridiculous that you get positively livid about things like this. Good grief, man. I’ve never read anyone who fumes over minor quotidian inconveniences that everyone else shrugs off.

Can’t you just go inside?

Blank bumper stickers + sharpie = Awesome passive-aggressive time.

Pro Tip: Place the bumper stickers by the defrost vent to let the heat warm up the glue – it bonds much faster to the vehicle that way.

It’s illegal to leave a running car unattended.

Uhhmm… wanna try again?

…and FWIW, the model of remote starter I’ve got has a feature where it starts and runs for 20 minutes every two hours.

I’ve been using mine to keep my vehicle running that way for the last two weeks. God, I love sitting in a warm car.

maybe YOU should try again binky.

There is no state law, that I’ve seen, but most cities do have similar ordinances. And, of course, if you’re in your garage or driveway, this doesn’t apply (but good luck getting a theft claim through your insurance comany if this happens).

The fun thing is that in Minneapolis, if an unattended running car gets stolen, the owner willbe ticketed:

Crime Prevention Specialist Tom Thompson says in one of his regular e-mails sent to subscribers in the 5th Precinct: “Vehicles are not allowed to be left running, or with the key in the ignition, on city streets/alleys while unattended. If your vehicle is stolen with the keys in it/running while left parked on the street/alley you WILL receive a citation for Open Ignition. You may also have problems with your insurance company claim, please check with your company for their policies on this.”