Secrets of the City

“….that asks who will be our next Eugene McCarthy?“

Who wants to be the guy who lost? I think most Democrats are asking themselves “who will be our next Bill Clinton?”

Good point. Or more locally, Paul Wellstone?

They have a program to find the next Paul Wellstone, Kevin.

From the Tribune archives:

Friday, Aug. 30, 1968: McCarthy, Shunning Parties,
Cheered by ‘Exile’ Regime

pbob-
i think, post-clinton, most democrats are looking for someone who isn’t afraid of partisanship, not one who can win by making concessions on every single issue. for clinton, it worked. for the party, it did not.

for clinton, it worked. for the party, it did not.

I heard a local political operative mention one of the sad but real truths of politics: “If you want to change the world, you have to win first.”

I would say they need be put through several programs, bob, but that’s neither here nor there.

And yes it is true, you can’t govern if you don’t win.

think, post-clinton, most democrats are looking for someone who isn’t afraid of partisanship, not one who can win by making concessions on every single issue. for clinton, it worked. for the party, it did not.

The democrats are over reaching. They do not have the mandate they think they have. The republicans fell due to the war and rightly so. However, the same old issues and debate remains when one looks past the war. This country is evenly split and a person that can’t compromise will inevitably fail to pass anything.

The sad truth is that to Democrats “Comprimise” means bending over for the Republicans and for the Republicans it means “shoving it in.”

So it’s “We the People” that re f-u-c-k-e-d.

All of the red states seem so trashy, while the Blue states are always awesome.

Blue States: California, NY, Connecticut, Minnesota

Red States: Alabama, Mississippi, Ohio

Eww, would seriously not want to live in red states.

Here are vlad’s states in terms of job growth and governmetn spending:

CA 6.09% job growth, $9,501 govt. spending per capita
NY 3.64%, $11,803
CT 3.45%, $8,550
MN 3.92%, $8,494
AL 7.20%, $7,305
MI 4.31%, $6,891
OH .56%, $8,015

Just numbers to munch on.

Job growth is not as important in a state with low unemployment. So AL and MS are out. (Pedantry alert: MI is Michigan at least according to the USPS. )

For a more real comparison run those numbers against unemployment, percapita income and cost of living and we can have real proof that MN is Gawd’s country.

swandog-
there might be over-reaching gong on now. they might now have a mandate. the repubs might be failing. and there might not be compromise because of partisanship (which is a good thing?)

BUT…
the republicans hardly ever trash their own. democrats do so to “compromise.” (that’s the underlying meaning of a “sistah soulja” moment). clinton did this endlessly. democrats now know that doing this kills the party.

so yeah, you can have tons of compromise and local operatives can preach all they want about winning — but winning means nothing if you give up everything in the process. that’s the lesson to most democrats following the dark years of ‘99-’03.

compromise is always viewed in the democrats best interest, but it’s always viewed as a weakness in resolve for republicans. there’s something wrong there.

vlad makes a point that I’ve also made in the past: why would anyone want to turn our lovely state into Alabama by copying their politics?

Thing is, we can’t measure things in terms of “growth” forever, because we’re running out of room to grow. I think it’s time we come up with new measures for how well we’re doing – more abstract ones, perhaps.

I got Michigan on the mind cause they’re the last on this list I have. Mississississiippissippi is MS.

I wasn’t throwing that out there to prove any point really. I’ve got economics on the mind today. Looking here at job growth figures from 2003-2007, you have to get down to the dakotas at 18 and 19 (north, south) to find an upper midwest state.

In fact it’s an interesting list because most of the high growth states during that time are in the south and west, with a few exceptions like Florida and Vifgina. We’re 35th. Looking at the laggards, there’s a lot of northeast/rust belt states. In fact, except fro Nebraska, every state west of us is has job growth outpacing orus.

It really kind of shows that the easts and wests are pretty much definitevly one way and us along the mississipiski are sort of wavering along the middle.

Is there some point you want to say “no more economic growth,” jeff?

Because, thing is, other states and/or countries are not going to do that.

Then, Minnesota will start looking more like Alabama.

Is there no point where you want to say “no more economic growth”, rat? Because when they’re paving over the BWCA to put in a Twinkie plant, things might start getting a little ugly.

I’ll take that as a yes.

What I’m saying is: Your attitude could very well get the state to Alabama status quicker than others.

Well, this really comes down to definitions of economic growth and discussions of how to slow down the limitless expansion of humanity until we’ve fucked ourselves completely, which is bigger than this topic. Economic growth can quickly and easily be achieved by a fantastic variety of immoral practices. If Alabama is experiencing economic growth, it’s probably because of some short sighted policy like cutting down all the trees in Birmingham to use for firewood. I’m more interested in quality of life and our long-term well being.

Totally agree with jeffk. The problem with modern economics is that it equates progress to more population, more resource use, etc.

China has a sweet economic growth. They produce so much shit. Must have sweet job growth numbers.

On the other hand, they are causing serious damage to their environment.
Do you want to be biking on streets like this:

Anyway, I think the future economic model has to combine growth and SUSTAINABILITY. Expanding industry without a good plan for the future doesn’t seem like the best idea.

We have to figure out how to live within our means. Not by simply wasting non-renewable resources.

Anyway, no way am I going to AL no matter how low the taxes…

Jeff do you have any rela insight into Alabama’s economy or are you just making shit up?

Economic growth can quickly and easily be achieved by a fantastic variety of immoral practices.

Like what?

If Alabama is experiencing economic growth, it’s probably because of some short sighted policy like cutting down all the trees in Birmingham to use for firewood.

Is this supposed to pass for a serious discussion of economics?

I’m more interested in quality of life and our long-term well being.

Material goods are the things that increase our quality of life and long term well being. You can’t selectively excise SUV’s, big screen TVs, Ipods, etc, from a manufacturing base while retaining pacemakers and cancer drugs. They’re inextricably linked, you can’t have the 2nd group without the first.

I have some insight into Alabama.
I know that in birmingham they love the governor

And Tuxedo Junction – where I want to be

I heard Alabama has a wheel in the ditch and a thing for Elvira.
giddy up giddy up a hoom papa mowmow.

Elvira is by the Oak Ridge Boys.

Looks like only one of them is from Alabama

ooo ooo ooo

“The sad truth is that to Democrats “Comprimise” means bending over for the Republicans and for the Republicans it means “shoving it in.”"

Amen to that. We have raised a generation of doormats in the Democratic Party. Like Bill Mahr said, “You piss off a Democrat and he’ll whine about it. You piss off a Republican, and he’ll kill you.”

Maybe instead of whining about it, you could provide some examples of where the Democratic Party has compromised in ways that didn’t satisfy you.

I suppose a staunch anti-war candidate, like, say a George McGovern or Gene McCarthy is needed? How many states did McGovern take, or shouldn’t we go there?

If Hillary Clinton gets the nomination, she probably won’t win the election. But at least she stands a chance of putting this Saros/moveon.org/Michael Moore/Bill Mahr wing of the party in their place.

Who is the next Eugene McCarthy, the Next Paul Wellstone?

On the national stage the moral fiber of the Democratic Party is best represented by Dennis Kucinich: see his speech to the DNC Winter meeting part I, part II

Here in MN, the democratic wing of the Democratic Party is est represented by Jack Nelson-Pallmeyer

Be sure to caucus on February 5th!

You obviously have a low opinion of women. One of the musta really done a number on you.

Leave you for a musician? College professor?

If Hillary Clinton gets the nomination, she probably won’t win the election. But at least she stands a chance of putting this Saros/moveon.org/Michael Moore/Bill Mahr wing of the party in their place.

This is exactly why the Democrats are DOOMED to failure. They would rather lose and keep their meaningless “principles” than win and have to make the hard choices that come with governing. Looking at Moveon or Saros as the enemy is like slitting your throat and Art that the Democrats have perfected. Why bother shaving? Just slit that fucker and be done with it.

Sadly, most if not all Democrats just don’t have the “balls” to go for the jugular like Bill did. Hillary doesn’t (yep I said it) and the boys chasing her obviously are neutered by the fact that they can’t be seen as “attacking” her.

It all plays right in the Neocon’s hands, having Hilary lead the way. In the recent polls it’s clear that she will lose to EVERY Neocon candidate.

The only chance what’s left of the left has is if someone like Bloomberg jumps in. He’s a devil in disguise but he’s a hell of a lot better than Rudy or that treacherous gang.

He’s the potential Arne Carlson of this race. Who would have thought that people would look back and say – “damn it’s too bad Carlson” is gone or “damn it’s too bad Bill can’t run again.”

These are the sad, left-over table scraps that progressives are left with. Which of of course alienates us which of course is the plan of Bush and Rove which leads me to suspect that people like The Rat are really just agent provocateurs for the “other side”. I am serious.

Bottom line, we are headed into a recession that will rival the great depression in it’s impact and we all know who will be blamed and who will gladly accept blame – the Democrats.

The modern Democratic Party are the Washington Generals to the Republican Harlem Globetrotters. Everybody knows that the fix is in.

God Bless You Mr. Rosewater.

“damn it’s too bad Bill can’t run again.”

I agree. This party needs another sexual predator as its titular head. It would help rid us of the wimp image we have now.

I said it before, I’ll say it again. The modern Democratic party is just a plot by the Republicans to stay in power.

I agree. This party needs another sexual predator as its titular head. It would help rid us of the wimp image we have now.

Well it’s worked for me!

Please ignore the troll. It’s either Maz or someone doing an especially dimwitted satire of him.

I believe that Mazasapa is a dimwitted satire of Dennis Tester.

“…putting this Saros/moveon.org/Michael Moore/Bill Mahr wing of the party in their place.“

Where’s that? Just curious.

I think it’s what they call the Democratic wing of the Democratic party.

Where’s that? Just curious.

As a loud minority that occasionally gets tossed bone.

“Maybe instead of whining about it, you could provide some examples of where the Democratic Party has compromised in ways that didn’t satisfy you.“

This is not Minnesota centric, but here it goes…
1). The coerced Pete Stark apology.
2). War funding.
3). SCHIP
4). Impeachment is “off the table”

There is a time for diplomacy, cooperation, and compromise. And then there is a time to bitch slap the fuckers. The art is in knowing when to use each method.

Also, the DFL and the National Democrats are different breeds of animal as the DFL still seems to have some teeth.

And then there is a time to bitch slap the fuckers. The art is in knowing when to use each method.

Some of the things I see on the list don’t come across as very artful to me. More vengeful.

I realize you’d probably get a visceral kick from impeachment talk. But it was a crazy, destructive idea with Clinton. And it’s a crazy, destructive idea now.

This is exactly why the Democrats are DOOMED to failure. They would rather lose and keep their meaningless “principles” than win and have to make the hard choices that come with governing

The real problem is they have not kept thier principles. It is the war and only the war that is driving the current election. They voted for the war and can’t go back on that vote. In an attempt not to seem week they caved. I lost all respect for them on that one vote. Let’s be honest there is very little difference between the two parties.

I realize you’d probably get a visceral kick from impeachment talk. But it was a crazy, destructive idea with Clinton. And it’s a crazy, destructive idea now.

Destructive to who?????

It seems to me Bush and Rove and Cheney et. al. feasted very well off of that side-show before their wet-dream of 9/11 came true.

This is where The Rat shows where The Democrats lack The Balls.

You’ve become a cartoon character, Raindog.

The real problem is they have not kept thier principles.

No, the real problem is they have no principles. They are a party of personality. You’re not asked to vote for the democrat candidate because of their ideas or philosophies, but because of who they are.

If Raindog is a cartoon character, I want to be one too. I’ll be Batman. Who do you want to be Raindog?

And Rat, you are correct that impeachment for a B.J. is crazy.

Batman and Raindog…coming to a comic store near you.

Becoming?