Secrets of the City

I’m not truly questioning this bust, but this is just hilarious.

“Craig then entered the next-door stall and placed his luggage against the opening under the stall door. . . . My experience has shown that individuals engaging in lewd conduct use their bags to block the view from the front of their stall,” said the officer, Sgt. Dave Karsnia.“

>>> (Gulp!)That’s where I put MY luggage when I’m in an airport stall.

“At 1216 hours, Craig tapped his right foot. I recognized this as a signal used by persons wishing to engage in lewd conduct. “

>>> Oh, lord. He tapped his right foot? I think I may have tapped my right foot while in those same stalls. Good gawd! Am I that gay? And that horny? (Well, okay, we’ll stick to the serious questions.)

“Craig tapped his toes several times and moves his foot closer to my foot. … The presence of others did not seem to deter Craig as he moved his right foot so that it touched the side of my left foot which was within my stall area. . . . The report said that Craig swiped his hand beneath the stall divider several times and that Karsnia showed his police identification under the stall.“

>>> And that’s all he did. Damn. I’m just lucky I’ve never been caught, I guess.

I’m not sure how I can go home and even look my wife and kids in the eye tonight. I’ve let them think, all these years, that I’m just a normal guy, and now I come to find out (okay, bad pun given the circumstances) that I’m actually just another airport-toilet-stall-gay-sex-degenerate. I’m really feeling disappointed in myself tonight.

I’m not sure if you’re being purposely naive, bobby, or if you’re actually naive. But sex between closeted gay men in public places, particularly bathrooms, is common; and there are signals that these men use in order to smoothly facilitate a “hook up,” and the stuff Craig did was textbook.

And if it’s really true that you’ve “accidentally” brushed another man’s foot in a neighboring stall with your own foot … well … you’re kind of weird.

I really, REALLY wish the title of this post simply said “Wookin pa nub.”

Like, I really wish it did.
/cries

bobby…that comment reads as though you’ve been watching Matlock reruns during the wee hours. you’re kind of weird.

Bx…it certainly wasn’t going to be “Fee times a mady”

Watching Buckwheat’s cover of Bette Davis Eyes is still one of the high points of my life.

A. Resolved: I’m kind of weird.

B. “But sex between closeted gay men in public places, particularly bathrooms, is common; and there are signals that these men use in order to smoothly facilitate a “hook up,” and the stuff Craig did was textbook.”

Yeah, but since when are “signals” a criminal offense? If I buy some woman a drink and compliment her hair, I get 30 days? If I brush up against a woman in a bar, the plant whispers “the quick brown fox” into a label bug and the cops break down the door? This is bullshit. “Lewd conduct”? Where? He neither touched nor exposed any of the Blessed Appendages, he never threw money over the stall wall, he never did anything illegal.

This is a complete legal farce. I’m guessing he was trying to signal to the guy in the next booth – the cop – that he wouldn’t mind a quick sexual hook-up. So fucking what? How many times do you think a guy tries to signal the exact same thing to some woman in a Minneapolis bar tonight, probably a whole lot less subtly?

They’re busting people in Minneapolis when they have gay sex? ‘Cuz, that’s what this is all about.

My favorite is the one where they don’t even know what Buckwheat’s singing, so they just post questions marks.

C’maaan

change the title…..

pleeeze?

We needs laffs round here……….

pretty pleeeeeze?

Heh heh “w i d e s t a n c e”.

Oh man, this does not look good for Sen. Craig. The guy probably went thru Minneapolis from Washington several times a month and knew very well about the men’s rooms at MSP. “Cruisiest place in Minnesota!” If he’s “in the closet,” then he’s “in the men’s room.”

spot the typo:

“But sex between closeted gay men in public places, particularly bathrooms, is common”

sorry…my filter is off for the night.

I agree with bobby to an extent. Nothing this guy did is any worse than anything I’ve seen on a dancefloor downtown, or a Saturday night bar hopping in Uptown.

One of the arrest charges was “Interfering with Privacy” which I’m assuming has something to do with bothering someone while they’re piddling and what not. And I think that’s the initial charge that made the arrest. The dude really should have gotten a lawyer.

I think the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force said it best today, “And by the way, why are Minneapolis tax dollars being used to have plainclothes police officers lurking idly in airport restroom stalls?”

They also pointed out what has become the larger story here: Craig spent a lot of his political career against things like stopping discrimination against gays and lesbians in employment and passing laws prohibiting same-sex marriage, civil unions and domestic partnership rights.

In the meantime, apparently, he’s been enjoying the gay sex. It makes me wonder about many of our elected officials that don’t like the gays so much…what are they hiding?

Bx, you’re crackin me up.
But max delivered on your request — nice.

I haven’t laughed this hard, this silently, this late at night since I was a kid with a flashlight and some Choose Your Own Adventure bullshit under a blanket fort.

Gotta get yuks where you can.

Tanks Max.

Grote, I just hafta say, on this website, this post and the general reactions are pretty disappointing. Back when I had to do the appointed cheap counsel rounds to make the rent, I did a few of these, and it always pissed me off that a man and a woman can damn near achieve penetration in a restaurant booth and just get faster service, but let two guys simply try to signal a desire – with no touching, rubbing, or even talk, just some “pervert signals” – and it’s a morals charge.

I must have been naive, like he said above. The general societal disapproval for gays makes longterm relationships damn near impossible for some guys and so all they can ever find are hookups like this, but they’re simply gist for buttfuck jokes here. I expected something different.

My mistake. Back to cat pictures.

“In the meantime, apparently, he’s been enjoying the gay sex.“

We heteros get to “enjoy” sexual relationships, and just plain relationships in general. Imagine how much “enjoyment” a guy must get when he has to hide what he is his entire long life, can never actually achieve love and orgasm in the same circumstance, and has to “signal” other old guys in dirty airport bathrooms for a quick blow job.

Yeah, boy, he’s had it good, but the ol’ gravy train’s over now!

About his anti-gay stance in public? He’s lived his entire life in a society that say gay is bad, weird, disgusting. Hell, progressive web sites are probably even making fun of his orientation tonight. Wonder why he might harbor a hatred for whatever makes one gay, huh?

I’m with Bobby B pretty solidly one this one. I’m not a lawyer, but for electives in college I took a couple of Criminal Law classes at the U, and I can easily still hear in my head what the prof, Joel Samaha, would say about a case like this — pretty much what Bobby B just said.

Having said that, I also think that if guys hooking up in a public place is becoming a nuisance, it’s justifiable for some actions to be taken to dicourage that. It’s not a right that any of us have, hetrosexual or homosexual, to engage in sexual conduct in a public place. If we choose to do that, we knowingly risk getting caught and punished for that.

Makes me wonder about our local media. The arrest happened in our state two months ago and our local media did not break the story? Even C.J. didn’t know about this?

Imagine how much “enjoyment” a guy must get when he has to hide what he is his entire long life, can never actually achieve love and orgasm in the same circumstance, and has to “signal” other old guys in dirty airport bathrooms for a quick blow job.

Bobby, come out of the closet! It’s OK!

“Having said that, I also think that if guys hooking up in a public place is becoming a nuisance, it’s justifiable for some actions to be taken to dicourage that. It’s not a right that any of us have, hetrosexual or homosexual, to engage in sexual conduct in a public place. If we choose to do that, we knowingly risk getting caught and punished for that.”

Well obviously the trick is not to get caught then. I mean, what are single public restrooms with doors that lock for if not for hooking up? I ask you.

“Having said that, I also think that if guys hooking up in a public place is becoming a nuisance, it’s justifiable for some actions to be taken to dicourage that. It’s not a right that any of us have, hetrosexual or homosexual, to engage in sexual conduct in a public place. If we choose to do that, we knowingly risk getting caught and punished for that.”

Well obviously the trick is not to get caught then. I mean, what are single public restrooms with doors that lock for if not for hooking up? I ask you.

Why doesn’t this ever happen in unisex bathrooms? Dang!

Heteros have been hooking up in airplane bathrooms for ever and I have yet to see anyone get arrested for that and the flight staff was well aware of what was going on.

Tabitha, I’m not able to get the point you were trying to make.

I presume that most such activity that goes on does so largely undetected. And so, no harm, no foul, nothing to be concerned about.

The concern is about when it gets rampant — obvious enough to put off others, such that they feel they want to go out of their way to avoid the place.

That has happened notably at various spots around the Twin Cities. Such as the river flats below the U of M’s East Bank campus, where a closeted state legislator got killed in a gay-bashing incident. The nature preserve that’s between Lake Harriet and Lakewood Cemtery historically tended to get overrun with gay-cruising enthusiasts; that prompted the park baord to remove a lot of low shrubby vegetation that facilitated concealment, and also to re-align the walking paths through there.

I guess my point here is that there can be a legitimate public interest in making public spaces less conducive for sexual activity, and that it doesn’t have to have anything to do with homophobia.

i’m just sayin that you keep doing that, and the sexual adventurers/deviants (of various orientations and persuasions) will keep finding ways and places to rendevous. let the games begin.

People on this thread need to remember some basic facts. It’s not like this guy was hooking up in the toilets at the Saloon. He was at the airport.

If you don’t want to get busted for soliciting sex in an airport bathroom … don’t solicit sex in an airport bathroom.

Oh, I see. Agreed.

Undoubtedly, the risk of getting caught is part of the appeal, for those so inclined.

There was a thread here a while back about having sex out in public places, triggered by a column Alexis did on that, at vita.mn. Rex, this site’s founder, who’s moved to the Pacific Northwest, chimed in late in that thread, encouraging others here to join him in specifying public places where they’d engaged in sex. As I recall, no one else here chose to speak up about that.

I think my sarcasm was too thin. Craig ‘enjoying gay sex was’ wasn’t meant in the literal sense.

About his anti-gay stance in public? He’s lived his entire life in a society that say gay is bad, weird, disgusting. Hell, progressive web sites are probably even making fun of his orientation tonight. Wonder why he might harbor a hatred for whatever makes one gay, huh?

Yeah, kinda. I’ve lived in that society too. I get a daily dose of the gay is bad, weird, disgusting each time I write a post about LGBT people. And I’m sure my Sen. Craig post at MinnesotaMonitor.com will bring out some more.

But he also contributed in building his own closet. I feel some sympathy for the guy and at the same time some pity. But then a lot of anger that he slowed progress for people like me who have enjoyed my gay sex with both love and orgasm.

“As I recall, no one else here chose to speak up about that.”

If you tell people the best spots for fishing, there won’t be any fish left.

Lorparmn, my guess on why the local media didn’t pick up on this story:

1. Airport Police are a pain in the neck… and extremely secretive. Even yesterday, no one would come back to the office to send us the report or give us the mug shot. “They close at 4 p.m.” is what I was told.

2. Because airport police is separate from Minneapolis Police, or the Sheriff’s office, media would have to go to the airport to request reports. The arrest information doesn’t leave their property, and as the charge was a minor charge, I don’t think it even went to the county attorney. It was like a ticket.

3. No one locally would raise an eyebrow about a “disorderly conduct” at the airport for a guy named Larry Craig even if they saw the report’s front page.

4. The plea deal at the courthouse happened the week after the bridge collapse. So the usual suspects who would have tipped someone off, were too busy with other things to even concentrate on this.

Someone nationally had to tip off Roll Call, the Capitol Hill Newspaper. That’s who broke the story.

“Ridiculous, reactionary, anti-sex, and homophobic, yes. But also now more and more a reality, even with the best attorneys (and even in a “progressive” state like MN).”

That’s BS from the Craigslist reference.

Your state gets its progressive bona fides by tolerating sex in airport bathroom stalls?

It’s an airport. It’s not Cruise Town.

Excellent insider’s explanation, Jason. Thanks.

MnSpeak is really at its best when someone chimes in, like you did here, with genuinely reliable info from their area of professional expertise, rather than just the usual armchair-observer sort of speculation that this site gets all too much of.

Agreed, good job Jason…and good luck with the airport police @ MSP next time you fly!

“I think the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force said it best today, “And by the way, why are Minneapolis tax dollars being used to have plainclothes police officers lurking idly in airport restroom stalls?”"

I didn’t get the impression that the cop was “lurking idly in airport restroom stalls”

The way I read them, was that the officer was sent to that particluar restroom to investigate specific complaints of “lewd behavior.” Once there, he apparently identified someone as a potential “cruiser.”

I thought the funniest part from the arrest report was his explanation why their feet were touching:

Craig stated that he has a wide stance when going to the bathroom and that his foot may have touched mine, the report states.

I think we all can fly comfortably knowing that airport police closes at 4 p.m.

(Not to be a baby about it– but the PR people at the airport commission told me they got 20 calls in 5 minutes on this story– they’ve never experienced anything like it before. You’d think one of the airport police supervisors could have turned around their Crown Vic and come back to work to fax out the report, and e-mail the mug shot.)

JKH

Insider talk is fine and certainly appreciated, but many people here are reluctant to reveal too much personal information, out of fear it might be exploited and/or used against them. It’s happened since I’ve been posting here.

I’m sorry to be an idiot, but I don’t get how this whole thing works. Touching feet? Swiping hands under the stall? Where’s the sexy? Is that a signal that party A would like join party B in his stall? If so, why doesn’t the officer actually go into the stall and then show his ID? I mean, at that point it would be hard for Larry to say, “Oh, you totall misunderstood me. I just needed some help with this giant TP roll.”
I hate it when a salacious scandal just leaves me confused.

Man, I can’t tell you how much I could care less about two consenting adults attempting to find a hook up, no matter what whacked out “code words” and signals they need to use to do so.

All this while bridges are falling, and I still have to take my shoes off and throw away my stylin’ hair gel at the airport security.

Almost makes you want to go Libertarian.

One other question for the knowledgeable Feds: when in an airport bathroom stall, where else do you want us to put our luggage? On our heads? There’s no other place to put luggage but in front of the front door (plus since most of the doors are done broked anyhoo, the only way to keep them closed is to brace your luggage against them).

Also, Feds: if you’re a Republican senator from Idaho, where else are you supposed to get some love?

I think I could try this case, and I’m not a lawyer.

It’d be interesting to know who leaked this to Roll Call. Someone in Freeman’s office, perhaps?

As a gay guy myself, I can’t work up any outrage at the idea that cops are stinging public restroom cruisers. These are almost always closeted men whose behavior makes the rest of us look bad, and those of us who are just in there to take a dump don’t really need to be exposed to this. If you need a hook-up this bad, finding it on Craigslist is extremely easy.

Craig deserves zero sympathy, and I’m basking in his humiliation.

The fact that he pled guilty rather than fighting it is interesting. Now he says he was innocent, but wanted to take care of it himself. This, from a sitting U.S. Senator. Weird.

And I’m all for consenting people hooking-up. But as someone who visits the airport with my kid… I’m not OK with people hooking up in the airport bathroom. I don’t think the sting was because people were just looking for love… it’s because people were engaging in “lewd” behavior IN the airport bathroom.

Here’s the original Roll Call article, BTW.

Good point, Jason. I will also mention for the record that I take no pleasure in listening to my airport brethren’s “business” in the stall next to me. Apparently they don’t give you meals on flights anymore, but they must serve cabbage. Whew…

Jason makes a good point. These typically aren’t scenarios where the participants foot-tap their way to an agreement and then hightail it to the nearest Ramada … these are travelers on hourlong layovers who get it on in the bathroom stall. That’s a pretty key distinction.

Knowing what I know of the (disgusting) MSP airport ladies’ rooms, why in hell would you want to get it on in there? I imagine the mens’ room isn’t much better.

I don’t care what you do or who you choose to sleep with, but boinking in public bathrooms is kind of icky and illegal, and spending your life decrying and discriminating against a lifestyle you secretly participate in makes you a hypocrite. Like Ted Haggard and the other ultra-conservative folks lately who are getting busted for sexual escapades, if you live in a glass house, don’t throw large, sexy stones.

Rat,

I understand your point.

But I think you read more into it than what I actually intended.

Jason’s obviously a public figure, as a reporter on the TV news.

But other MnSpeakers can comment from their areas of expertise without revealing that much about their identities. For example, from reading MnSpeak in recent months I know that “mnblrmkr” is hard-of-hearing, and a research scientist for a bio-med company; and I look forward to getting his takes on matters that touch on those areas of his experience and expertise. But it’s not about wanting to know his exact identity.

The Russ wants to go 2 without being hit on. He thinks this is an implied right in the Constitution.

Ah, but many (some?) of us are registered. Even if we’re not public figures, it can still be wise to limit what we disclose, at least under our registered user id.

Dlisted sums it up nicely.

In the cold, clear light of the next day, I’ve decided that my outrage last night was unjustified. I had thought that busting gays for such disgusting, deviant sexual behavior as tapping the feet several times, or waving a hand under a stall wall, was wrong, specifically because I can see behavior between men and women way more explicit, way more obvious, and way more public than any of this, twenty-four hours per day in the airport bars. Hell, it gets steamier on the planes. This wasn’t about “lewd” conduct, this was about “gay” conduct.

But I can see that the people who consider themselves to be the progressive members of this community – hell, even some of the gay members of this community – see nothing wrong with this. And, frankly, if basic human rights ideals can be cast aside so easily by those most affected every day by such actions and attitudes, simply for the sake of the glee of seeing someone in “the other party” fall, the commitment to those ideals can’t be all that strong, and I’d be foolish to hold those ideals dearer than do those most affected.

I guess I’ll just look at the bright side: The airport always complains that it needs more funds, especially for security. I fly maybe six to eight times per month, and MSP has security lines as bad as any in the country, due to lack of staffing. But, even though I may miss flights if I don’t get there 3 hours early to get through the lines, I can rest easier knowing I’m safe from that dreaded foot-tapping in those bathroom stalls.

Yeah, I’d say MSP must be pretty well fully funded.

As enjoyable as your condescension is to read, the issue is that sad as it may be that closeted gay men feel the need to hook up anonymously in airport bathrooms, it is people like the public Craig who make it harder for the private Craig to be ok with who he really is, not the lefties on this board. Call it glee if you will, but it seems like some kind of justice.

Personally I am happy that it is some form of minor crime to solicit sex in a public bathroom, no matter the genders involved.

Bobby_b, in all honesty, would you be defending this guy if he was a Democrat? Just curious.

I agree that these seem like pretty tepid charges and don’t seem to constitute illegal behavior. But I don’t agree that we should feel sorry for him because society makes it hard to be gay. Many people manage to make their way through life being openly gay. And short of that, they certainly manage not to try to squash the rights of other homosexuals in an attempt to cover up their own orientation.

“it is people like the public Craig who make it harder for the private Craig to be ok with who he really is,“

Really? I see “people like Craig” on the anti side of the gay marriage debate, but are you arguing that our legislatures and congresses set our public attitudes? That the “public Craig” causes people to fear or hate gays? I’d say it’s snide crap like this episode that does way more to make it not-so-fun to be gay than any marriage debate. We even have the obligatory “ooo, Bobby came out of the closet!” comment above, which was apparently the biggest insult the writer could devise, but it’s Congress’s not altering the marriage laws that demonize gays?

I see 60-somethings like Craig who, unlike (presumably) you, has lived a long life, spending his 20’s pre-Stonewall in a place like Idaho (now there’s a gay-friendly place, right?) where his personal perceptions and outlook about his own orientation probably caused him psychic pain you’ll never know or understand. One of the most basic, widely-held, primal taboos in mankind’s history has only started to ease in the last thirty years, and he grew up before that easing started, and you can fault him because he can’t get over all that?

It must be nice to have certainty about the motivations of others, to know what constitutes their psychological overlayment, and to be able to chalk up conflicts and insecurities to selfish hypocrisy.

There’s an upside, though. I can imagine the bitter recriminations going on over at the Strib today. The business types are probably livid – livid! – that no one had the thought, even as their circulation peters out into state fair giveaways and sidewalk pickup racks – to print up a Special Idaho Edition of maybe 50,000 copies for shipment straight to Idaho. They could stick one of those big black headlines on that said “Holy crap, HE’S A FAG!“, and then fill the interior with stories about the myriad loathsome diseases voters . . I mean, people could get from him just by shaking his hand.

But, yeah, it’s the fight against gay marriage that’s really hurting gays in the public opinion polls.

people like the public Craig who make it harder for the private Craig to be ok with who he really is

I think thats an assumption made purely because hes a Republican, and is possible a false premise. I have no reason to believe thats the case with Craig. I am not aware of him being a combatant in that theater of the culture war.

He was/is a reliable RKBA vote in the senate, which I was always appreciateive of. Seems very liberal on immigration, but reasonably conservative on taxes, etc.

While I mostly agree with you Bobby — that a little foot tapping and leg rubbing should not necessarily lead to arrest. However, I am a person against hypocrisy. If you preach against homosexual behavior, then you darn well better not participate in such activities. This is where “the progressive members of this community” are taking their glee, as you put it. It is in this person’s hypocritical behavior has finally caught up to him — a bit. It is not the particular example of this case. Many are jumping heavily to Ted Haggard type conclusions, and perhaps they should not. As in, here is another anti-gay Republican senator caught in what appears to be gay behavior. This may not be the case. It is just a conclusion that is readily available to be jumped to by looking at past experience.

He DID plead guilty to the charge…

This wasn’t about “lewd” conduct, this was about “gay” conduct.

If this were two consenting adults instead of one consenting adult and a cop and things took their natural course, the encounter was probably going to get pretty damn lewd in a short about of time.

Thus, whatever schadenfreude some of you feel b/c this fellow is an R is quite possibly misplaced.

I think thats an assumption made purely because hes a Republican…

http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/Larry_Craig.htm

Voted YES on constitutional ban of same-sex marriage. (Jun 2006)
Voted NO on adding sexual orientation to definition of hate crimes. (Jun 2002)

Not an assumption at all. A fact.

And of course then there is his support for Romney based on their shared belief in “Family Values”.

Hey bobby:

I guess I’ll just look at the bright side: The airport always complains that it needs more funds, especially for security. I fly maybe six to eight times per month, and MSP has security lines as bad as any in the country, due to lack of staffing. But, even though I may miss flights if I don’t get there 3 hours early to get through the lines, I can rest easier knowing I’m safe from that dreaded foot-tapping in those bathroom stalls.

Yeah, I’d say MSP must be pretty well fully funded.

From here

This year Congress completed action on only a few of the dozen appropriations bills that fund Federal agencies for each fiscal year. The Department of Homeland Security Appropriations Act, including funding for the Transportation Security Administration (TSA), was completed and signed by President Bush this fall. This new law disappointed aviation interests by limiting the TSA airport screener workforce in the face of increasing passenger traffic totals, and didnt much increase Federal funding for the in-line installation of explosives detection systems(EDS), needed by many airports.

The security lines are because the feds don’t fund the TSA adequately and has nothing to do with the funding for the MAC (which runs MSP).

“Bobby_b, in all honesty, would you be defending this guy if he was a Democrat? Just curious.“

Yes. Never heard of him. Don’t much care what party he’s with. Disgusted at the cannibalizing that goes on when someone gets caught being gay, because I’ve seen what kind of quiet, foundational affect those kinds of headlines have on non-urban, gay-ignorant folk who really don’t know what to think until our wonderful media tells them – that, yeah, being gay must really be disguting and loathsome, because it’s bad enough to destroy otherwise respectable people – and I’ve seen the destruction of good and great people who were outed because some shithead – hell, sometimes some gay shithead – saw quick tactical political advantage.

One of the most basic, widely-held, primal taboos in mankind’s history has only started to ease in the last thirty years

oh yeah, there definitely has never been any buggering in ancient greece or rome or even british boarding schools.

Re: Idaho, places aren’t anti-gay, people are.

I would like to hear you what you would have to say if someone were to mention psychological overlayment regarding beatings on the greenway.

Prediction: I anticipate a very snide Nick Coleman column to emanate from this. Whatever supposed irony he sees in the combination of Republicans and homosexuality will be too much for him to resist. He used to be quite the borderline homophobe on Air America.

“it is people like the public Craig who make it harder for the private Craig to be ok with who he really is,”

Really? I see “people like Craig” on the anti side of the gay marriage debate, but are you arguing that our legislatures and congresses set our public attitudes?

That wasn’t my take on the “public Craig” comment at all. I read it to mean that the public actions of Craig, i.e. hanging out in mens’ restrooms for a quickie, makes it more difficult for the general public to accept the gay lifestyle; the your average heterosexual will believe that all gay men act that way.

Kind of like believing that *all* heterosexual men engage in picking up hookers, because of the publicity surrounding occasional stings, when only a small percentage of men do such a thing.

“Re: Idaho, places aren’t anti-gay, people are.“

Cool. Here I’ve been thinking it was the Idaho mountains that were being anti-gay. (So, I should have said the mostly rural, traditional, straight-laced, non-worldly Idahoans were not generally a fun group for a gay man to grow up amidst?)

“I would like to hear you what you would have to say if someone were to mention psychological overlayment regarding beatings on the greenway.“

Okay, then listen: Huh? That went right over my head.

do as I say, not as I do!

bobby, people love politicians in sex scandals of any kind. it’s just even better if their private life runs exactly opposite to their political life.

Disgusted at the cannibalizing that goes on when someone gets caught being gay…

Again, it is not BECAUSE he is gay. It is because of his actions PRIOR to being outed — as it were. You’re talking apples while the conversation is about oranges…

You know, if a young lady is rubbing my foot or tapping or being suggestive at a bar, that’s something I’d enjoy. If she’s doing it while I’m on the crapper, I am going to be weirded out.

So this “oh, you’re so anti-gay” stuff about sexual behavior in a public bathroom seems a little wrongheaded to me.

But you go ahead an enjoy your outrage, Mr. B.

Voted YES on constitutional ban of same-sex marriage. (Jun 2006)
Voted NO on adding sexual orientation to definition of hate crimes. (Jun 2002)

Not real meaningful. Paul Wellstone voted for DOMA.

Was Paul Wellstone secretly gay and looking for hookups in the airport bathroom?

We’ll never know about Wellstone’s gay cruising, but he certainly did like to grapple with men in tights.

“You know, if a young lady is rubbing my foot or tapping or being suggestive at a bar, that’s something I’d enjoy. If she’s doing it while I’m on the crapper, I am going to be weirded out. “

But next time, you’ll realize that the little outline figure with a dress means “womens’ restroom”, the the educational aspect will have made it all worthwhile.

Who cares if he is gay. Their are very few politicians that are not hypocritical. Ted the drunk Kennedy Mr. no windmills in by backyard. Mr. George the shrub Bush ran on no nation building and now we are nation building. Come on, getting some gay love is a victimless act. While our streets become unsafe, our taxes go up we are worried about a man that touched another mans foot in the shitter. I feel so safe now at the airport knowing that I can take a shit in the can and I am safe from gay politicians from Idaho not touching my foot while I wipe my ass.

Bobby, it’s been explained, but it doesn’t seem to be registering with you that when a member of a party whose business is setting arbitrary moral standards and spending money, destroying privacy and making peoples’ lives miserable by enforcing them, then it’s a big deal when it turns out they’re a big freaking hypocrite. His private life wouldn’t of mattered – if he hadn’t spent his public life making other people’s private lives matter. Got that?

Jeff, it’s been explained, but doesn’t seem to be registering with you, that the Democratic party attempts to enact and enforce its own arbitrary moral standards and rules as much as, if not more than, the Republican party. It fails to register with you, I think, because your inner response is always “but our standards are the right ones, and theirs suck, and so the situation is completely different”, proving that true moral argument is lost on you.

And, aside from not wanting to amend the law so that gay people can marry, how has Craig destroyed privacy, made people’s lives miserable, or otherwise attacked gays? By not wishing to make a totally new, unneeded thoughtcrime called “hatecrime”?

Condescending responses really ought to be backed with some intellectual clarity. Those guys who dragged Sheppard down the gravel road behind their pickup truck were as sure of their moral standing as you always seem to be. By your repeated logic, then, we ought not be questioning what they did.

I have to say, i get a little weirded out whenever people who claim to espouse tolerance for something (like homosexuality, and i share that tolerance) then dance around mockingly, pointing fingers at someone like Craig for engaging in this kind of behavior.

I get that much of the criticism aimed at him is about his hypocrisy and the contrast between his policies and his lifestyle.

Still, if being gay is OK (and it is, in my opinion) than why resort to junior-high level name calling (like that awful blog proclaiming that Craig “likes dick” or whatever) when someone is found to be engaging in homosexual behavior.

Sure, go after him for the hypocrisy….go after him for trying to commit a sex act in a public bathroom (which is wrong), but when you try to, on the one hand, proclaim your unending openness and tolerance for homosexuality, and, on the other hand (perhaps the “hand” analogy is not the best one for this situation, huh?) mock him in the most base, vile manner for engaging in this behavior, you become a bit of a hypocrite yourself, no?

I guess my point is….I see some people using language that (they know full well) taps into other people’s anti-gay bigotry to go after Craig, and that’s just wrong

I guess my point is….I see some people using language that (they know full well) taps into other people’s anti-gay bigotry to go after Craig, and that’s just wrong

If you look back through this thread, very few people here have done that and the ones who did are anonymous posters that are prone to saying idiotic things.

Look who was in the next stall.

Michelle Bachman is a decent Christian Woman…you should be ashamed.

Bachmann bears false witness, and covets her neighbor’s oil fields

You grant the marriage thing. Let’s add sodomy laws, which were just recently removed from the books in many states with great difficulty by Democrats. Not to mention sex ed that leaves out, well, the “ed” part, and homosexuality. The list of crimes against peoples’ sexual freedom by the Republican party is quite long.

I call the morality of the Republican party “arbitrary” because it’s generally based on pre-Enlightenment Puritan bullshit. I’m willing to make a case for the liberal version of morality “enforcement”, although it’s mostly limited to collecting taxes to redistrubute wealth some so people arn’t starving in gutters (or at least are doing so less), and less to do with standing watch in peoples’ bedrooms, which is creepier as best I can figure.

The general societal disapproval for gays makes longterm relationships damn near impossible for some guys and so all they can ever find are hookups like this, but they’re simply gist for buttfuck jokes here. I expected something different.

»» Submitted by »»» bobby_b at 12:06 AM on August 28

»» Submitted by »»» bobby_b at 4:20 PM on March 2

I should add: I really don’t like hypocrites, especially legislating hypocrites. Alert me next time there’s a democrat that is one and I’ll criticise them too.

JeffK:

How about all the steps to legislate and browbeat smokers? While collecting money from them hand over fist.

If it’s bad as they say it is, why is Mr. Lungs and others just pushing to make tobacco and smoking illegal?

And isn’t that about moral hypocrisy?

Rat:

I’ve been against the smoking ban and I’ve criticized Democrats on this issue, except in the realm of employee health protections. I think the whole thing has gone so far and I’ve said so. I suppose it wouldn’t be “hypocracy” unless the people involved in pushing the bad smoked, but it’s still kinda fascist.

Getting back to the actual reporting of the story … One of my close friends is an editor at Roll Call and she shared some more details with me today. Apparently, they had got the tip from a source (not sure if it was anon or not) but — echoing Jason’s post about the difficulty of dealing with the aiport cops — it took a full week to actually get the police report in hand, and ultimately they had to hire a courier to go there and fax it to Roll Call.

When they called his office for a comment, his staff said they didn’t know a thing about it, and she believes they didn’t. It seems Larry thought this whole thing would just blow over unnoticed and no one would ever be the wiser.

Anyway, the Idaho Stateman (home to former Pioneer Press editor Vicki Gowler) has a lot more background in this fascinating story that says this wasn’t the first such encounter for the senator.

“…but it’s still kinda fascist.”

You wouldn’t know “fascist” if it goose-stepped into your physics lab, Jeff

Watch Ken Burn’s “The War” on PBS and learn something about the evils of fascism. Then prepare to come back here with an apology for using that term in this context.

Well he didn’t really say that it was “fascist,” Bob. He said it was “kinda fascist” as in resembling fascism.

It’s probably not really fascist. Just Puritan and busybody, more like.

Hyperbole. I know the real meaning. No apologies, though.

Over-the-top hyperbole. Besides, how did this thread end up here? Did Rep. Craig light up when he was finished?

Puritan Bob? heh. You have no idea…

Ross: I blogged a bit more today about the airport cops. They told me they’re in a tight spot: reporting to an entire airport board, rather than just one mayor or city administrator. So they as a matter of policy, share information with the board before getting it to the public. That creates some major delays.

Plus: Their reports are hard copies, not computerized. So that’s another issue.

Do you work through the MAC to get a spokesperson, Jason?

The Idaho Statesman story is indeed fascinating, thanks for the link.

Did Rep. Craig light up when he was finished?

Then he’d be really in trouble.

But he’s a Senator.

So, its OK for the MAC cops to profile gay cruisers based on some very subtle behavior, but they’d be admonsihed for profiling Arab muslims for terrosim based on very subtle behavior?

“But he’s a Senator.”

I stand corrected. Member of The Club, eh?

Member of The Club, eh?

They call the Senate The Cave of the Winds.

“So, its OK for the MAC cops to profile gay cruisers based on some very subtle behavior, but they’d be admonsihed for profiling Arab muslims for terrosim based on very subtle behavior?”

MAC cops and the TSA are two unrelated entities.

Over the next several days, there better be some reporters’ asses in some ofiices explaining why Roll Call broke this story.

Craig pleaded guilty in Hennepin County Court.

“The bridge fell down” As they say in the south That don’t get it.

The Rat: We do work through MAC. The police tell us to go through Public Affairs, and Public Affairs tells us, MAC doesn’t want to get involved, as it’s a police matter. Wonderful.

I cut through the BS, filed a FOIA request, and hopefully will get some answers tomorrow.

The newspapers should have got this, Jason. You can see the courthouse from Portland Avenue.

They don’t have A Guy?

OK, or A Gal?

Somebody?

Having spoken with Pat Hogan before, I can say he’s nothing but helpful with public affairs issues at MSP. But I can’t imagine having to talk to airport police who, according to DeRusha, have to share everything with a board before releasing any information. That’s a serious impediment to the free flow of information, and I don’t see why it should be tolerated (from a Federal agency).

Rat, I’d be happy to send the plea agreement over to you. I doubt any newspaperperson would note someone named Larry Craig pleading to disorderly conduct, a misdemeanor. Of all the cases going through, why would this one stick out? Also: He entered the plea on August 1st. A rather busy day, as I recall.

And Pat Hogan is out of the office, but apparently calling the shots as to how much MAC wants to get involved in this story (not very involved, it would seem).

The police report indicates that Craig tried to discourage the officers from pursuing the matter by showing them that he’s a U.S. Senator.

That would’ve made it tempting for the police to leak this story. That they didn’t leak it shows perhaps a lot of self-control on their part, or a lot of fear of the board.

Bobby is right that this case was the thinnest of concoctions. But the good Senator chose for his own reasons not to fight it. Probably he was just hoping to avoid further inquiry by the Idaho Statesman and those who were already accusing him of hypocrasy. His gamble and he lost. Just like Clinton gambled and lost in the Lewinsky case. Is it the biggest issue in the world? Hell no. Is it wrong to take a little glee in the exposure of a hypocrite? Life ain’t worth livin’ if ya can’t laugh once in a while, even if it is a little mean-spirited and part of you knows better. A good chuckle for a day and the bastard deserves to fry a little bit. He’ll stay a senator til the next election. Then the Idaho voters can decide whether they really want to be represented by Barney Frank. If they do, and an incumbent Senator, even a ridiculous one, is hard to beat, they at least next time they will know what they’re buying.

Jason:

A newspaperson wouldn’t note it immediately, but sources would. Sources they trust. Sources they know. Sources they rely on.

Craig was arrested when? — June. It was the talk of the Cop Shop. This story was out there for two months.

And the Strib is busy doing what? Writing vapid stories for people with “busy lifestyles?”

A regional Washington news source ate their lunch.

It’s been almost 24 hours. Hard to believe no one has posted this yet. Buckwheat Sings.

“Raindog! I choose you!”

Bobby B…Fighting for gay rights since yesterday.

You are right, The Rat, in that it’s surprising that no one leaked this story. But when you say it’s the talk of The Cop Shop, bear in mind you’re talking about the Airport Police Cop Shop. Not exactly a large operation, and certainly no reporter is covering the airport police beat. Should we be? Probably not.

It’s more surprising that someone in the courthouse didn’t leak it, but again, the guilty plea was signed August 1 and the sentencing was that week. The bridge pretty much squeezed all other news out.

“Raindog, I choose you!”

There are some crazyfunny people on this site. Thanks, Ash.

Cruising happens all around the city, not just at the airport. The U of M west bank is a hot spot for this behavior.

Can someone please explain how the hell you can have sex when you are in two separate stalls?

Hmmm….I’m thinking that what bud jr.’s really asking here is for someone to meet up with him and show him exactly how it’s done.

Miller FTW.

New T shirt idea:

“Foot tapping is not a crime”.

Still waiting for explanation of how two men can “have sex” when they are in adjacent bathroom stalls.

Thanks.

“It’s more surprising that someone in the courthouse didn’t leak it, but again, the guilty plea was signed August 1 and the sentencing was that week. “

This sounds like one of those pleas done in chambers, with the judge, a city attorney, and a lawyer, and the defendant either appearing by signature, or maybe there in person. But no spectators.

I have no personal knowledge about where this plea occurred, but seldom do the morals-type misdemeanor charges get pled out in open court, unless you have a PD who has 40 cases on that calendar and can’t afford all the extra time.