Secrets of the City

Nuclear. No really, I’m serious. I think it’s the lesser of evils, and a bridge to future completely renewable energy (much like ethanol).

Well, Jeff, you’re not the first to rethink nukes. There is no denying that they provide steady, reliable power without polluting the air or adding greenhouse gases. Question is, can America ever trust nukes again and allow new plants to be built?

Anyone on this site want a nuke plant within 50 miles of their home?

How much power does a wind farm actually produce? What if we turned all of North Dakota into one big wind farm?

Sorry, North Dakota’s going to be turned into a big home for the buffalo to roam, according to some. Word to wise: Don’t mention “Buffalo Commons” to a NoDaker (like Mrs. Lungs) — it really upsets them.

Good question, though. Read more about wind power in Minnesota from:

The Rake, circa 2005 and the American Wind Energy Association.

jeff, agreed. It’s the only way to provide emission free baseload power.

justpbob, it depends. Each turbine is roughly 1-2 megawatts. Generally, a MW is enough to power 1000 homes, but for wind it’s considered about 300 (because of capacity factor…meaning the wind ain’t blowing all the time and most turbines only produce the amount they’re rated for about 30-40 percent of the time).

The biggest problem is, there’s very little transmission capacity where the wind is the best (strongest and most consistent), which in Minnesota is the Buffalo Ridge area in the southwest part of the state.

We could also think more about the link between built environment and energy use and alter the city planning techniques to take this into account. Far-flung suburbs where driving is the only option only forces our energy use higher, and quite a large chunk of our domestic energy use is for transportation.

Far-flung suburbs where driving is the only option only forces our energy use higher

One option is incentives to locate the jobs — and transportation options — where many people choose to live, be it downtown or the suburbs. The perspective of a place being ‘far-flung’ depends on where you are standing. From my home in the suburbs, it’s Wayne’s World and downtown Minneapolis that are ‘far flung.’

I like oil, and nuclear plants, like the ones in Monticello and Prairie Island. Would rather save the other stuff for when we really need it, like when there’s no more oil and nuclears.

Col. “Bat Crazy” Kevin Watterson, commander of the space shuttle “Indifferent” speaking:

“We have just launched from the Cape on our mission to resupply the International Space Station. I’m not sure if we have enough fuel on board to leave the atmosphere and obtain orbit, but I’ll worry about alternative fuels once we run out of the stuff we usually use…”

“PS — I’m drunk.”

One option is incentives to locate the jobs — and transportation options — where many people choose to live, be it downtown or the suburbs.

Unfortunately (or fortunately), they already are. A lot of manufacturing is out in the suburbs. So are the jobs that support that. I’ll probably never be able to find a job in the city.

On the flip side, it’s easier to build a hub and spoke based transit system than one that’s more like a net. How do you set up transit lines to link all of the suburbs together? It’s a lot easier to get a working couple from their house in the burbs to their jobs at 2 different locations in Minneapolis than it is to get them from their home to their jobs in 2 different suburbs.

Decentralization is a real problem, and it’s far enough along now that suburban office parks have gotten huge and large amounts of businesses are scattered all over the metro now. The main advantage to the old ‘downtown’ dense city was that it collected most of the work in a central location that was somewhat equidistant from people no matter which direction their neighbourhood/suburb was in. Obviously it’s not practical for some things like industrial work, but there’s so many awful office parks on 394/494/everythingthreedigit94 that someone’s work might be ten miles out of downtown on one side of the metro and their home might be ten miles or more on the opposite side of the metro. Multiply this by thousands and you’ve got a lot of wasted energy.

But you obviously can’t tell people where to live or companies where to build their offices. What you can do is provide financial incentives to make centralized employment centers the most affordable/wise decision. Suburbs went from having a symbiotic relationship with the center city to being competitors a while back, and it’s been one of the worst things that could happen to american cities. Suburbs are almost always willing to underbid the city because they love any extra bit of tax revenue they can get, even if the overall impact of locating a facility in their town screws every town along the way and the entire metro region in the long run.

“Don’t mention “Buffalo Commons” to a NoDaker (like Mrs. Lungs) — it really upsets them.”

Doesn’t upset me. Or anyone in my family. We think it’s a grand idea.

It would be pretty fricking awesome to be able to see a 20,000+ herd of bison on the prairie. No need to go to Africa to watch the migration of the Wildebeast.

Good thoughts, Elizabeth. I noted all of the new construction (high density housing) going up around the Hiawatha Line near the VA Medical Center. I saw similar developments along the Washington, D.C metro lines.

What if we built the transportation system first? Kind of a “build it and they will come” senerio. It worked for the transcontinental railroad, and cities natually sprung up along major rivers (the roads/rails of their day).

Would such a pre-planned community really work? Whattya think?

I’d volunteer to live within 50 miles of a nuclear plant. While we’ve had our cold-war era and first-wave-environmentalist fear over the things, European countries have been improving the efficiency and safety of the plants for years. When you consider that there’s really only ever been one major nuclear plant disaster, and it was one that was run years past its expiration date, with first generation technology, I’m just not that scared.

In the U.S., there’s only ever been one very notable accident. Wikipedia has this to say about the Three Mile Island accident: “The Three Mile Island accident was the worst accident in American commercial nuclear power generating history, even though it led to no deaths or injuries to plant workers or members of the nearby community.” In other words, in the only significant accident to occur, all of the safety mechanisms operated more or less as they were supposed to.

Not that anyone brought it up, but it’s worth saying that nuclear waste isn’t any fun, but the emotional reaction we all have to that phrase doesn’t really mesh with the reality. It’s a question of being able to control waste, or let it get blown into the atmosphere. And technology used in Europe recycles much of the waste.

Also, it’s true that uranium isn’t a renewable resource (and may involve some messy mining.) That’s why I consider it transitionary, not a long-term solution.

Decentralization is a real problem

Or, perhaps the real solution. Your vision of our cities and how they function seems stuck in the horse and buggy era, wayne. I’m certainly not saying I have the answers, but there might be other models that can work in the Interweb era, no?

I recall the Star Tribune doing a piece on “Minnesota of the Future” that showed a very decentralized, largely enegy-independent community that figured out how to liberate its residents from long commutes to centralized employment centets.

good luck with that one, bob. telecommuting never took off the way they predicted it would for some very good reasons.

I recall the Star Tribune doing a piece on “Minnesota of the Future” that showed a very decentralized

of course, that’s the natural progression of the current planning practices (or complete and utter lack thereof, rather). then they sprinkled a little ‘technology will save the day so we don’t have to think long and hard and inconvenience ourselves with change!’ on top and viola! A “_____ of the future!” story!

That’s how all something of the future stories work. take some natural progression, add some magic technology sauce that may not actually happen and sing the praises of our glorious future! Don’t you remember all those ridiculous predictions about the future from back in the 50s and 60s, Bob? WHERE ARE THE FLYING CARS?!

I’d volunteer to live within 50 miles of a nuclear plant.

Excelleennntttt! (rubbing hands)

I would like to add that not everyone’s job can be easily telecommuted. You can’t really telecommute if you need to be in the lab running tests, or if you need to make things, or if you need to watch someone’s kids, or prepare food, and so on.

Not to say that telecommuting can’t help, but some people are still going to have to go to work.

even office work just really doesn’t go as smoothly if someone isn’t physically present. unless their job is basically just to churn out reports/data/whatever with very little input/interaction, telecommuting isn’t that great.

WHERE ARE THE FLYING CARS?

Right here, baby, and it runs on E85.

No Bob, seriously. Where are the flying cars of the future in every american suburban ranch-style house garage? They’ve been making mock-ups and drawing of flying cars for at least 40 years now and not once has anything useful come of it. Visions of the future can often be very very very wrong when you rely on the relentless march of technological innovation to solve all your problems.

Visions of the future can often be very very very wrong when you rely on the relentless march of technological innovation to solve all your problems

True enough, wayne. One reason we support using biofuels now instead of sitting around waiting for the “silver bullet” solution, which may never come.

true enough!

but I kind of doubt there will ever be any silver bullet to the energy problem. eventually people are going to have to learn to reduce their energy use and stop being such lazy wasteful sods.

but we’ll probably just bomb another country into dust for their oil before that will happen.

but we’ll probably just bomb another country into dust for their oil before that will happen

Shh! The Canadians may be monitoring this site.

everyone knows canadians can’t read american english, eh!

I don’t think Canada would even put up a fight. It might be a war that this administration could win but in the end would find a way to lose.

Do not underestimate the will of the Canadian People. They’ve managed to overcome the fracturing wrought by the Francophiles of Quebec, provided us with not one but TWO BASEBALL MVPs, they’ve exported hockey into our warmest metropolii, and they have brainwashed us with inexpensive quaffable lagers (it’s pronounced Luh-Bats, people, not Luh-Bots) and Pam Anderson’s ever changing boobs. I can just hear them sharpening their skates in anticipation of a winter battle brought on by a US land grab for the oil rich strip mined soil of the NW Territories.

I think it’s usesless to debate what we are going to use to replace oil to continue our consumer-mad suburuban, automobile-driven culture. As Peak Oil ends in 2007, prices will continue to rise as supplies of oil dwindle. The technology to replace the oil energy we base absolutely everything from heating our homes to getting to work to growing frood on will not be able to keep the pace.

We will simply go back to local villages and communities that are more sustainable in the long run and it will be better than continuing to get our food from 3,000 miles away and have China make everything we own.

Go ahead and tell me I’m wrong. I can take it!

Another thing about reducing energy use, is LEED certified buildings (Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design). If commercial buildings would implement (or the government would mandate minimum standards that meet the LEED certification), energy use would be HUGELY decreased. And although the materials and design are a bit more expensive, they always pay themselves back.

End-users, whether on the individual or commercial side, need to do more to decrease energy use, particularly in little areas like using compact fluorescent bulbs, getting rid of the the extra fridge for soda and beer and using programmable thermostats.

Christ, I could go on forever about this shit.

I love oil and I want to marry it. Oil, oil, oil. Oil everywhere. Everything needs oil. I love it. Love oil.

Sorry! I watched this anti-oil movie last weekend. I’m all fight club now and shit!

well, if the Middle East runs out of oil, should we go back to getting it from whales?

*cough*

Transportation Energy Use as Part of Entire U.S. Energy Picture
(2003 data – 98.2 Quadrillion BTU)

Petroleum Is Dominant Transport Sector Fuel (2003)

Transportation Petroleum Consumption Has Increased

oh and just to keep you on edge about filling up your SUV never being affordable again:

(clicky on piccie for fullsize)

I heard the high price of corn due to ethanol is driving up the prices of other consumer goods. Damn! I say we dig up some oil so we don’t have to use as much ethanol.

kevin we haven’t been able to ‘dig up’ enough oil in america to feed our insatiable demands for over 30 years. our demand keeps going up and our domestic production keeps going down.

go bomb some more oil-rich countries like your buddies for the precious black crud.

actually make that 50+ years.

I think it would be great if developers in MN built apartment/condo complexes like Solara. I’d definitely sign up to rent or buy a unit if one was available in Minneapolis. It seems like it makes it easy for people, like me, who are interested in being green but are lazy.

Would rather save the other stuff for when we really need it, like when there’s no more oil and nuclears.

That’s kind of like not putting money into a 401k throughout your career since you don’t need that money just yet, and Kevin, I know you’re too smart for that.

I think it’s just the opposite. Why spend my 401k now when I’ve got all this oil still and when we can go looken for so much more?

But thanks for looken out fer mai fuchur, josie. And sorry for the crack about saggy breasts. Ich bin forgot that not everyone likes ‘em.

Here’s a little review of Solara from Treehugger

Building better buildings is a good idea. ALAMN is rebuilding it headquarters in St. Paul to LEED standards. We are also doing a lot in the “green home” arena, including projects in Brooklyn, rural Virginia and upstate New York.

We do green home projects in Woodbury and Richfield, too.

Not sure what the answers are bob, but it seems we are moving in the right direction. I think it may be a combination of things that may be the answer rather than just one source, i.e. wind.

I don’t agree that telecommuting is dead. When companies wrap their brains around it is when we’ll see change. With exceptions, there are a number of companies that could allow their employees to work remotely, but don’t think it’s a productive way to operate. It’s corporate culture to have everyone together in cubevilles.

Minnesotans also looove their cars. Sure, the mass transit system could be better, but people don’t carpool either. Not only do we love our cars, but we love them … alone. When the incentives are enough to change behaviors is probably when you’ll see fewer single drivers.

And then there’s wind. I’m all for it, love it. What I’m hesitant about is 1). Are the farmers getting fair rates for the land they give up? I read an article not too long ago about the disputes S. MN farmers were having with energy co. that was buying the land for the wind farm – not getting fair value, but I didn’t get from the article what “fair value” really was. 2). I’m all for sustainable alternatives, but not at the price of wildlife. Wasn’t there a big hub-bub a couple of years ago about the CA wind farm disrupting the hawk and golden eagle migratory pattern? May not be a big thing to some, but if we don’t know what affects are, don’t we run the risk of a domino environmental inbalance? Or is it more of a greater good ideology?

We did do one green multifamily project in Minnesota, but it’s intended for the homeless, not the “lazy green.”

justpbob, great news! there are a few buildings in the metro area that are pursuing LEED (including my employer…the new building in Maple Grove will be LEED platinum certified and the most energy efficient building in the Upper Midwest. It’ll have a wind turbine, too!)

I wish the federal government would mandate that all govt buildings be constructed/retrofitted to minimum LEED standards. And I t hink all new houses should have to meet minimum requirements, too. Saves energy, cuts pollution, saves money. Unfortunately, most developers are too shortsighted and only think about selling new suburban cookie-cutter homes for as cheaply as possible. But now I’m just bitching about the burbs again.

I’m familiar with your new HQ under construction in Maple Grove, PwrGeek. Chuck Knight, one of the principles in your architecture firm, Perkins & Will, owns the Woodbury Health House I linked to earlier. I also worked with your builder, McGough Construction, in projects at Regions Hospital and HealthPartners.

Our project will be rated LEED Gold, we hope. The state of Minnesota does require that all buildings with state funding (including grants) be the state’s Sustainable Building Standards. A little-known but very cool state law.

Oh, here’s a really cool multi-family project going on in Missoula, MT.

http://www.homeword.org/index.htm

Their most recent development is Orchard Gardens and is one of the most inspiring low-income communities I have seen — and one doesn’t see inspiring and low-income in the same sentence often.

Sorry, don’t know how to use the link thingy.

I’m all for sustainable alternatives, but not at the price of wildlife. Wasn’t there a big hub-bub a couple of years ago about the CA wind farm disrupting the hawk and golden eagle migratory pattern?

Cat: I believe the wind energy industry now takes great pains to avoid major bird migration routes. If only the birds would take a little more effort to avoid giant turning blades…

However, I’m almost certain the hawks and golden eagles in California were killed by ethanol, who framed innocent and clean wind energy.

Minnesotans also looove their cars. Sure, the mass transit system could be better, but people don’t carpool either. Not only do we love our cars, but we love them … alone. When the incentives are enough to change behaviors is probably when you’ll see fewer single drivers.

That’s not just Minnesota, that’s the entire country. USA! USA! Selfish pricks, all of us!

That’s not just Minnesota, that’s the entire country. USA! USA!

Save that rant for USAspeak.com, wayne.

That’s not just Minnesota, that’s the entire country. USA! USA! Selfish pricks, all of us!

Not true. When humans are forced to find alternatives, we somehow do. The city of Minneapolis is considered to be one of the greenest cities in America … it’s the ‘burbs that are causing us grief — and no offense meant to those living in the ‘burbs it’s more of accessibility than anything else. It’s easier to find alternatives in the city in terms of transportation and convenience of resources.

“I love oil and I want to marry it. Oil, oil, oil. Oil everywhere. Everything needs oil. I love it. Love oil.”

If you’re talking about olive oil, i agree whole heartedly.

I am working on having all my personal relationships operate from the telecommunications model.

I found the article in Wired about wind vs. migration. It actually was the the wind turbines causing the problem:

http://www.wired.com/science/planetearth/news/2005/10/69177

But it sounds like that situation brought to light some changes in the design so hopefully the design is standard.

olive oil … can we transition into getting slicked up with canola oil and wrasslin?

“Go ahead and tell me I’m wrong. I can take it!“

You’re wrong.

Oh, and, bob, on another note, what a great marketing coup for your organization!

I was listening to 93.7 this morning, and Hellyeah comes on with that song you guys commissioned, and it was just perfect for what you’re looking to accomplish!

“Alcohol and Gas.” Getting a bunch of formerly-famous metal guys singing a jingle for ethanol that gets bigtime airplay is quite the feat!

Oh, and, bob, on another note, what a great marketing coup for your organization!

Thanks, bobby. I’ll be perfoming an acoustic version of that song on the next Cities Sampler, accompanied by Buckweat Zydeco and Alice in Chains.

You aint seen nothing yet. We got some big things in the works I can speak of at a later date.

You’re going to have to do better than that!

Ok. Big Oil vs Ethanol.

no love for canola wrestling?

no love for canola wrestling?

of course … via telecommute
;0P

Ok. Big Oil vs Ethanol.

Big O, every time. No fakin’ involved.

you want to telecommute some canola wrestling with me?

wink wink

I can’t even begin to understand the logistics of that, though.

Wayne, I think it would be more of a visual interpretation – a zen approach to canola — be the canola.

flow like the canola. be rubbed into the skin like the canola. provide for the furious sliding of skin-on-skin as the canola.

I liked the nytimes article about Paris and their efforts to reduce car use in the city… I wouldn’t mind policies like this, that make it both really inconvenient and expensive to drive and also really fun and awesome to use alternative forms of getting around.

Yeah! I’m sure that’ll happen!

I liked the nytimes article about Paris and their efforts to reduce car use in the city… I wouldn’t mind policies like this, that make it both really inconvenient and expensive to drive and also really fun and awesome to use alternative forms of getting around.

Yeah! I’m sure that’ll happen!

That’s just it, we haven’t reached that point of pain yet. Maybe if we were paying $12/gal for gas and we had a decent metro system in most cities, we’d change our behavior.

It’s so unbelievably easy to get around Paris using the metro it makes the idea of driving a car there … ludicrous.

Chances are pretty good your car isn’t dank and smells like urine, though.

Chances are pretty good your car isn’t dank and smells like urine, though.

No, but the hood in which the car resides does.

“I wouldn’t mind policies like this, that make it both really inconvenient and expensive to drive (into the city, like Paris is doing). . . .“

Neither would I. Once this happens, there will be even more incentive for people to begin providing services and attractions in the suburbs that are now normally found within downtown areas, because potential business owners/starters will see that some larger percentage of consumers with money will react badly to the “no drive” mandate. Once we have large clubs scattered about in a ring, (think “Myth”), nightlife in Mpls may start to slow. High-overhead places that need high volumes will decline first, and the already-shaky ones (1st Ave?) will be the first to go, followed by most others. Restaurants will likely begin popping up around the new suburban entertainment areas, which will cause slower business in Mpls restaurants. Faced with the loss of employment for its residents, and the dropping tax revenues (both income and sales-based) resulting from these slowdowns, the City will likely decide to begin raising fees and taxes, in order to maintain financing of services at the present levels. Because of this, prices in Mpls will rise again, causing more impetus for people to look for entertainment outside the city proper.

Employers – small ones to start, probably, and eventually the shockers like Honeywell, etc – who have been mulling the whole “is this worth the hassle?” question about maintaining their business within the city, with its higher taxes, parking issues, anti-business governments, the growing concern about crime, etc., will more frequently answer that with “no”, and you’ll see a migration of work out of the city. As time goes on, the imbalance will leave you with areas full of shuttered buildings, and all the concomitant social-environmental problems.

At that point, Mayor Zimmerman will probably be chastising the selfish, reactionary, elitist rich who have shown their true colors by abandoning the workingmen of the city, claiming that the rich people’s fortunes were created by those laborers and not by the rich people, and proclaiming that the rich owe the poor of the city, owe them a decent living, that failure to raise taxes paid to the city by at least 100% constitutes theft from the city, and demanding that suburban fun-seekers be ordered to patronize Mpls clubs and restaurants at least 75% of their nights out. He’ll then begin erecting a wall around the city, and he’ll tell you it’s to keep us rich scum from sneaking in, but all the guards will sit facing you . . .

I found the article in Wired about wind vs. migration

Wired was better before rex was there.

Not really. I just love saying that.

Nice story in today’s West Central Tribune (which publishes a LOT of good articles for a small town daily, IMHO) on local ownership of the fast growing (and profitable) alternative energy industry in Minnesota. It’s an issue that has Senators Norm Coleman and Russ Feingold worried.