Secrets of the City

My first concern after just reading the summary was that people would be even further away from help if they needed it. The article confirmed this is a problem since police don’t really answer how they are going to protect people further away from the crowds. Out of sight, out of mind?
My second concern was, “this solves the problem how?”. Third, while Block E has been identified as a problem area, what about 8th Street (right street?)? People catch the 5 to go south on 8th. In order for this plan to be “effective” wouldn’t they need to move both stops. When I say effective, I mean effective according to Rybak and the police. Yeah, this is just poor decision making…

I used to get on at 4th and Hennepin. Not only is it very busy during the morning, but it’s at the Gay 90s and it the whole area smells like pee. Stupid idea.

Rybak is a fucking joke.

“But he’s got such pretty eyes!”

Anything to detour crime is racist. I dont understand why the bus riders are afraid to be away from crowds. They rode in with the criminals on the same busses. Put a police substation right next to the new bus stop

http://youtube.com/watch?v=b7gG2d-AJu0

The headquarters for the 1st precinct are between the Gay 90s and Nate’s Clothing.

What a cesspool your town has become. I’m going to lobby the St. Paul city government to blow up the bridges.

Kevin, I couldn’t agree more, that intersection does smell bad. FWIW, I caught wafts like that all the time in Mankato (Just down Riverfront from the Oleander), but I just figured it was the river. And hey, maybe that’s what we need to keep certain members of society from causing trouble.

I won’t address maz directly, but in downtown St. Paul, there’s plenty of drug dealing and dick swinging in that block around Fifth Street Center after dark, and apparently the rooftop of my Lowertown office was the stash point for large quantities of stolen cash and cocaine — right under our noses during rooftop barbeques the last couple weeks.

I’ve noticed an increase in foot patrols on my daily lunchtime walk on Hennepin this past week. That & I’ve had a tough time scoring crack.

The 4 corners @ 4th & Henn are the 90’s, a low income housing high-rise, a surface lot, and the Central Library. As a NIMBY who works in Block E, I’m all for it. Also, while I feel for homeless people, isn’t there somewhere else for them to bathe other than in the Central Library sinks?

Nice post. I’ve always wanted to know what the MNSpeak regulars think of crime, especially downtown.

It’s too bad that we need to move a bus stop just because a small percentage of people who gather there are troublemakers. It appaears it is hard to arrest some of these guys because they have a right to be there. The best bet is to install a police kiosk there and catch criminals in the act to get them off the street.

Is the idea to get the thugs to wait in front of the library and reconsider a life of crime and slinging drugs because they can get books and learn some shit?

Because the library’s always closed, so that won’t work.

isn’t there somewhere else for them to bathe other than in the Central Library sinks?

maybe if they turned that parking lot across from the library into a park and had some kind of fountain …

or I guess they could use the one in the sad remains of gateway park a block further down.

Since Rybak and crew know that crime happens there, why not put several foot patrols that constantly walk the area. Doesn’t that make MUCH more sense? So when the “harassment, name calling and blatantly disrespectful behavior” begins a friendly officer can step in and tell them to move along. Either that or make the “thugs” easier to identify by giving them nice name tags to wear.

Some are also calling the proposal racist.

of course they are, that’s what people do when they run out of arguments.

of course they are, that’s what people do when they run out of arguments.

Jesus. Have you actually examines why people might be making that accusation, or is it just your knee-jerk reaction to minimize and mock accusations of racism? Because if it is, it doesn’t speak well of you.

After viewing that video, I guess I was wrong about suggesting that people should carry a pistol down there to be safe. Seems a scattergun would be more effective.

No, they need to give police segways and let them ride in circles around block e.

The hoodlums will be so busy laughing at them that they won’t get any slinging or fighting done.

a small percentage of people who gather there are troublemakers

have you hung out around the Hennepin side of Block E? It’s a veritable thug buffet.

Unless Ryback finds a way to move the bus stop and Block E to Golden Valley, this won’t do much for the crime rate in downtown.

Wayne, I like your segway idea.

Ok, Max,. this is why people are making that accusation:
Blacks are among the heaviest users of the buses that run along 7th Street

That stinks of well rounded reasoning.
knee jerky

the issue here is crime, and gangs of poorly-parented youths making the public transportation unsafe and unenjoyable. Who cares if they are black, white or green.

It’s fair to address that specific argument, but this is what got my goat:

that’s what people do when they run out of arguments.

It’s just a grotesquely unfair and ignorant comment. People generally make accusations of racism because they suspect racism. They may be wrong (although they are often right), but it’s not because they have nothing else to say and just let loose with the race card every time something happens they don’t like.

A few diseased individuals who do exactly that excepted, of course. But it’s just as vile to suggest all accusations of racism are baseless and ignorant.

Who cares if they are black, white or green.

And, come on, green? You have to draw the line somewhere.

(Joke borrowed from Mitch Hedberg.)

MAX DID YOU CONTACT MITCH FOR AUTHORIZATION TO USE HIS JOKE?

CREDITING HIM ISN’T ENOUGH, YOU NEED EXPLICIT WRITTEN CONSENT AND 3 FORMS OF ID!

The same stereotyping equating people waiting or riding buses with crime has been used in other areas as well. Years ago the bus shelters used to be at the Brookdale shopping center. Brookdale was renovated and the bus shelters were moved across the street. Brookdale management looked down on its bus riding individuals (as our money wasn’t as good as people who owned cars) and a new Brooklyn Center Transit Center was built even further. They decided to make it bus rider unfriendly locking up the public restrooms except for working hours Mondays through Fridays–like little kids, pregnant, or senior citizens are not supposed to take “potty breaks” evenings or weekends. The Robbinsdale Transit Center decided to go one step further and close its public bathrooms altogether.

It is only a minority of obnoxious people who cause trouble at bus stops and riding buses. Why should the decent majority have to suffer? What’s next building one shelter in an out of the way central location (say Loring Park) where everyone needs to go to board a bus? I say focus on the drug dealers, pickpocketers, and gang trash and get them off the streets. Get Minneapolis back to the good old days of the seventies and early eighties.

Mitch died a few years ago. RIP.

You might want to contact his estate.

wayne: maybe if they turned that parking lot across from the library into a park and had some kind of fountain …

Wayne, there’s already a giant grassy space kitty-corner from the new library.

but it’s not because they have nothing else to say and just let loose with the race card every time something happens they don’t like.

But this is very common, actually. I barely had to skim the article to find out the ‘reasons’ for thinking racism was the culprit.
I realize racism is very alive and well, but I constantly see people using this argument when it is not applicable, as in this article, i suspect.
Scare the black people away from downtown? come on…

And the more I see it used falsely or without basis, it makes me angry that it could potentially lose its power like the ‘crying wolf’ thing.

It’s like every time a cop shoots a black guy, it’s automatically because he was black, not because he was trying to ram the officer with a car or whatnot.

perhaps my statement was grossly unfair, but I suspect I was right.

Moving the bus stop is a bad idea. There should simply be a near constant police presence, um, policing the area. I’m sure a lot of people here have been to New York and have seen a very visible police presence which makes a difference.

Call me racist, call me ignorant, call me bigoted or paranoid.

Sounds like you’ve already figured it our for yourself.

Call me racist, call me ignorant, call me bigoted or paranoid.

well you can call me ray, or you can call me jay…but don’t call me Mr. Johnson

Hey, what about the opera music they have been blasting on Block-e? Let’s give that a chance to work. Right? Right?

The busstops btwn 6th & 8th have always totally been a “thug buffet” when I use them on occasional weekday mornings. Years ago a friend was sucker-punched across the street from the Skyway theatre. Guy just walked up, slugged him and took off. My friend has titanium rods in his jaw now.

I’m often one of a handful of white people on the number 5 in the morning. (Think about that as it applies to the charge of racism. Wayne should be able to handle it, it’s just basic numbers.) I’ve never felt intimidated. Hell, just this morning a brother said I look nice and to keep working and stay away from the knuckle heads “around here.”

But I refuse to ride the 5 south from downtown. I know the neighborhoods the bus has been through and I don’t want to wait at those bus stops or potentially sit people with a high probability of being from them. Skin color doesn’t matter. If it did, I wouldn’t ride in the morning.

How many St. Paul cops have been shot in the last few years? How about the rockin East Side? I grew up in Dayton’s Bluff area and I’m glad I escaped. Yes, blow up the bridges. We are glad you want to stay on your side of the river.

Seems the folks ’round here who spread the love for St. Pizzy frequent Croucs Hill, Grand Ave, Mac-G-land, Highland & Como Parks, and Downtown. Frogtown, Payne Ave & Dayton’s Bluff are apparently taboo.

Frogtown, Payne Ave & Dayton’s Bluff are apparently taboo.

Those places, along with the neighborhood where I grew up, selby-dale, are great places to be from if you grew up there years ago. But you escape at your earliest opportunity.

There needs to be some major police state-style action at these transit stops and on transit itself. This laissez-faire, “I don’t want to offend someone” approach is going to be the end of any sort of true transit system and the end of Minneapolis as a decent city.

Could someone explain to me what would prevent a drug dealer from saying “I’m just waiting for the bus” if the bus stop was moved to 4th Street?

Isn’t it obvious that the #5 bus is umm lively compared to most lines? And that the corner of 7th and Nicollett probably sees more action than most? Am I being a racist for noticing those things?

I giggled at “thug buffet”, which makes me feel kind of guilty.

I think a greater police presence would make much more sense then rerouting a bus. I hardly ever see cops on foot patrolling downtown, and I think that their mere presence might have a calming effect.

And while we’re cleaning up neighborhoods, someone should do something about the guy on my block who sells drugs using cheese products as code. While it’s funny to hear one dude yelling “I need some provolone now!” to someone in the building across the street, I don’t really want to find out what provolone or medium cheddar actually means.

Breaking up basically every one of the “hi-frequency” routes would have a nice calming effect on bus crowds. Not much you can do about the 16 or 21, except run more 53s and 50s, but do routes like the 5 REALLY need to run halfway up and down the metro?

Most of the time when I see cops downtown around block e they have their cruisers parked in the bike lane, which annoys the shit out of me (because I’m rolling by on my bike).

“People generally make accusations of racism because they suspect racism.“

And some people always suspect racism. They generally get heard, which has worked to devalue the concept.

If I do something for no racial motive, but it has a racially disproportionate effect, is that racism? I’m guessing the answer differs among people.

I see that Rybak has come up with another gem of an idea to move the bus stops from 7th street up to 4th street…..that’s an assinine idea for so many reasons.

I think the best thing would be to keep stops where they are now, but have an increased police presence all along 7th street, from Block E to City Center. Maybe even build out an MPD substation inside of City Center, with glass window walls that face out where the bus benches are along 7th street, so the troublemakers would know that they are being watched at all times with staff and cameras?? Everyone has seen how dead City Center has become, so why not put some of that empty space to a good use? With the history of problems at that corner and stretching back now to Block E, having frequent foot patrols and a substation might just be what it takes to get the gang trash, drug pushers and other scum to shove off and stay home!

Minneapolis Mayor R.T Rybak = Boris Yeltsin

I pity on you folks across the mighty Mississippi River to the west.

Josie: “”I need some provolone now!” to someone in the building across the street, I don’t really want to find out what provolone or medium cheddar actually means.”

Despite being an effete foreigner, I still like to keep it gritty and real on occasion. So here’s a quick guide to that and other pieces of dairy-related street slang.

Provolone = Heroin
Kraft Slice = crank
L’Epoisses de Bourgogne dans une petite brioche salée avec une Salade de Mâche, Endives et Betteraves = Speed
Light fondue = drive-by shooting
Dropping the chive roundel = Ditching the drugs, typically when pursued by law-enforcement
Cheese pipe = glass or ceramic smoking paraphenalia.

Be vigilant!

How about a baked brie in a puff pastry? Opium?

I believe that Opium goes under the street name “Bernie Taupin’s Cream Cheese Wontons”.

“Baked brie in a puff pastry” is either slang for $50, a pejorative for someone who smokes too much crack, or an appetizer. I’d need more context. Did they mention almonds?

They generally get heard, which has worked to devalue the concept.

Do you really think that people have a hard time believing racism because the concept has been devalued by people claiming more things or racist or perhaps is it because people are having a hard time believing racism because it has become more subtle over time? And no, I’m not talking specifically about this bus thing.

Racism has many forms. Some forms of institutional racism are considered good things by many people … like racial preferences in hirng or school admission to achieve some sort of “diversity” goal.

When I was a freshman at the U, for example, I was reminded by my counselor from the special native american student office, that I would be admitted to medical school just for the asking. Even at the time, as an 18 year-old kid, I thought that was kinda stupid and certainly unfair. But, of course, I certainly didn’t tell them that.

But preferences like that tend to build resentment in the majority and over time, because such programs exist, when someone is harmed from racial discrimination, there’s a tendency among some in the majority to think (they generally don’t actually say it), so what! “They get this benefit or that so it all evens out.”

I’ve had people assume that because I’m a sioux, I’m in on the casino largese and consequently, so what if someone denies me a right to work or slights me in some other way … I’ve got all this free money from the casino, right? Which or course, isn’t true.

So I think Bobby’s point is, if we’re not careful, otherwise good people will become desensitized to the charge of racism even when it’s egregious, if people throw the charge around too willingly or without serious merit.

Provolone = Heroin
Kraft Slice = crank
L’Epoisses de Bourgogne dans une petite brioche salée avec une Salade de Mâche, Endives et Betteraves = Speed
Light fondue = drive-by shooting
Dropping the chive roundel = Ditching the drugs, typically when pursued by law-enforcement
Cheese pipe = glass or ceramic smoking paraphenalia.

I had no idea surdyk’s was such a hive of drug scum! My neighbourhood suddenly seems so much less safe!

“Do you really think that people have a hard time believing racism because the concept has been devalued by people claiming more things or racist or perhaps is it because people are having a hard time believing racism because it has become more subtle over time? “

What I was thinking was that, while we all recognize that racism is still around, and in fact is sadly common, we also recognize that, for whatever reason, (”the reason” being a topic I’ll avoid here, as being unsolvable and distracting from the main point), different communities have developed different cultures, and different problems, and different strengths. That the demarcation lies along racial lines does not, or at least should not, make recognition of those differences into racism.

Sad fact is, the trouble at the bus stops has been caused, to a great extent, by groups of black male teens. If someone wants to address this specific problem at these specific bus stops, the solution is necessarily going to have the most impact on black male teens. As many of the stop-users are also black, solutions will involve blacks disproportionately to their numbers in the city.

So, complaints that such solutions are racist leave many rolling their eyes, wondering how you could ever address a problem that does break along racial lines without solutions that break along those same lines. And that, I think, leaves us all a bit more skeptical of all cries of racism – we see it as a near-constant cry by some who do it cynically – it must be cynically, because, being intelligent people, they simply CAN’T fail to recognize that attempts to change behavior that is centered in one group must be addressed to or aimed at that same group.

Why not get Don Samuels, other black leaders and their followers out and start patrolling the bustops over on 7th street since most of the people involved in the drug selling, begging, physical assaults, etc… are young black males with too much time on their hands and nothing else going on. Maybe those guys can light a fire under the asses of those bums and get them to divert their energies to more useful pursuits! As for black people screaming about this idea being racist, why don’t they stop and take the time to get knowledgable about the facts regarding such incidents and see who is causing the problems….it’s not whites, asians, native americans or hispanics!

Call me racist, call me ignorant, call me bigoted or paranoid.

»» Submitted by »»» msparber at 10:42 AM on April 25

http://www.mnspeak.com/mnspeak/archive/post-3102.cfm

Can’t use it in its original context, in its original thread? How about using the full quote? A little too intimidating? Are you afraid I actually have a point?

Typical liberal dodging and ducking.

looks like binky was too busy idling his car in front of somebodys house with his ear to the police scanner…burrito in one hand and knob in the other…to figure out how to link properly. what a fucking tool. just go away.

just go away.

Naawww, man… it’s peaceful…

Let’s all sit around the campfire, eat granola and sing “kum by yah”.

Hippy freak.

I’m not goin’ anywhere. Deal with it.

If you thought this issue with public safely concerns on metro transit buses is bad enough for the gutless wonders of Mayor Rybak and Chris Coleman, then what about warning us over mother nature?

Did we just lost all priorities, thanks to a bunch of crappy career politicians that we re-elected last year at both the state level and the local level?

I’ll start out and say what I’m about to say may sound very very racist no I won’t be dropping any N words or anything like that but I wanted to say it because I am not racist I am just sick and tired of everything…

I am legally blind, I will never be able to drive a car and thus must heavily depend on metro transit.

I moved yesterday 80 percent of my moving involves planning bus routes because if I can’t take a bus somewhere I can’t move there then it matters how far it is away from work.

I’ve taken the bus more times then I can count, I’ve been downtown more times then I can count and now I’m just sick and tired of the bus system and downtown.

Last year I was robbed at gun point and beat up. My glasses were knocked off me and I had to listen to the sound of traffic to find my way into the city (45th and freemont) after that I’ve been very nervous about riding the bus.

I know it may never happen again and I’ll never see the guy again it was late and a crime of opportunity I’ve come to accept that.

But more and more people are getting shot, robbed and now more crime on the busses themselves I’m not trying to be racist when I say it’s ignorant black men and woman can be just as bad. On the flip side I’ve come across my fair share of “the light is on but nobody is home” white person

But it’s usually the black guys who are lould and rowdy always calling woman “bitches” or other stupid stuff I’d never dream to call a woman because I would be slapped.

I really wish Minneapolis would get cleaned up and stop making it so hard I loved going downtown but now I try to avoid going downtown because I never know what will happen or what I’ll see.

That video got to me because I always wait there to catch a bus home and it just bothers me.

When will the mayor make a decent budget for crime obviously this is a huge problem