Secrets of the City

I live two blocks from Calhoun square, and work two skyways from Galtier Plaza. The simple answer is that urban malls don’t work.

As for the rest of Uptown, there have been some unfortunate losses, but overall I would say the area is treading water, at worst. Since the beginning of the decade:
* Empty impound lot: Uptown Row (Tum Rup Thai, Pizza Nea)
* Perkins: Uptown City Apartments West
* Lakeland Dental building: Stella’s.
* Old Booksmart space: Zeno, Drink, and Zilya

These are not insignificant developments, and even more retail space has been added, but I doubt that rents have accommodated for the dilution of its value. There is a practical limit on the impact that a single intersection can provide, and it is difficult to expand that sphere when the best areas to use for that purpose are surface parking lots, in an area where parking is already bad enough.

“Others blame Uptown’s notoriously active neighborhood groups, which in more prosperous times fought changes that could have revitalized the property.”

AMEN…. it always feels that the vocal residents of Uptown want to live in a quite little neighboorhood with no big city feel… IMO. Looks like they’ll get thier wish. After the whole uproar over Tonic I stopped going to uptown fullstop. I love Urban Outfitters and I’d rather deal with MOA that go to uptown.

Violence in Video Games killed Uptown.

That area of town has gone through such drastic change over the past few years. If anyone remembers punk rock McDonalds, they’ll know what I mean.
But as the change happened, there have been some long-term survivors that always did well, such as Cheapo, a few book stores, the tobacco shop (in one form or another) and the theatres. On the other hand, stores like the Gap finally bit the dust.
I think that makes sense. People travel to the area for places like Ragstock or the two theatres or Magers and Quinn, not for a chain store they could find in every town.
Of course, then there are stores that just sell candles or socks for 20 years and totally clean up, so business is a twisted world any way you look at it.

I think there’s plenty of blame to go around, but the reality is that whatever happens there, they have to attract customers and they haven’t done that very well, obviously. Hopefully that will change because it is a great little area.

It will be interesting to see how this project changes the face of uptown. more residential density + overnight visitors = more shoppers & more dollars.

hipsters shop at thrift stores, apparently.

Lack of parking!

I blame that crappy cabinet hardware store that stopped free parking in its lot after hours behind the Uptown Bar and Grill. That took about 30 free parking spots out of commission.

Mozaic: completing uptown’s long transition to yuptown. You can call it SLP East, if you like.

With Borders closing down, there’s no reason for me to go in there anymore. And did anybody ever confirm or disconfirm the rumor that Borders deliberately closed that store because it was unionized?

There’s nothing there for residents on weekends–most of the restaurants cater to tourists from Blaine or St. Thomas jocks getting hammered at Williams, Stella’s, and Drink. I live within walking distance of the mall and avoid it Thursday-Sunday. Places like Magers & Quinn, Booksmart, that great (closed) Tibetan place, and Tum Rup are better suited to those of us that can walk, and want to feel like we live in a neighborhood, not a mall. Encouraging better restaurants–think Lucia’s, not Chino Latino–and less flashy, cheezy shopping and entertainment, and I have no doubt that area will thrive.

I’d rather deal with MOA that go to uptown.

Now that’s just crazy talk.

With Borders closing down, there’s no reason for me to go in there anymore. And did anybody ever confirm or disconfirm the rumor that Borders deliberately closed that store because it was unionized?

When I was a wee lad, my dad used to take me to the original Borders Bookstore in Ann Arbor. It was this great hippie anti-establishment campus bookstore. It’s been really sad to see them sell their soul over the past 2 decades

Last time I went to a movie with my wife, I spent $24 for the tickets/one bucket of popcorn and $7 in parking. AND the movie was lousy….$31 for WHAT? Add dinner and it is $100……

UPTOWN needs cheap PARKING.

Well stated, C!

When I used to visit Minneapolis back in ‘99 there were still a reason to go to Yuptown. Now I never go over there unless I’m forced to by well-meaning yet slightly clueless friends who want to meet at the Independent.

And what about the Lagoon? Are they tearing the Lagoon down and putting in a condo and a multiplex? That would surely suck. So many happy memories seeing foreign films at the Lagoon on Sunday afternoons.

UPTOWN needs cheap PARKING.

that’s the last thing a real urban neighbourhood needs.

but then again uptown is just a playground for suburban twits, so yeah, bulldoze a bunch of houses near it and pave the lots for parking.

Agreed, Wayne. It needs LESS parking, and better access and interest for the residents that live close enough to walk, bike or bus. It’s so close to the Greenway, but no one bikes in because there’s nothing interesting for people that aren’t suburban tourists on safari wowed by sushi, homeless people and Urban fucking Outfitters.

a buddy and I ducked into Chino for a cocktail on Sat night while our wives shopped for clothing….it was rife with suburbanites just like us. But since I’m a self-loathing suburbanite, I had to get out of that fondue pot post-haste. serious tourist trap…there were at least 2 prom parties, and the bar was thick with meatheads who looked like they should have been in Docker ads & kids in their early 20’s who think PUNK is just a fashion trend @ Old Navy. we grabbed the girls, hopped in the car & headed to St. Paul for dinner.

It’s so close to the Greenway, but no one bikes in because there’s nothing interesting for people that aren’t suburban tourists on safari wowed by sushi, homeless people and Urban fucking Outfitters.

Exactly why I never go there.

Nothing attracts customers like nowhere for them to park!

one of the stipulations with the Mozaic project was that they build a gateway between Lagoon Ave & the Greenway…there is going to be a public plaza between the condo & hotel tower that runs from Lagoon down to the greenway…increasing pedestrian & bike access into uptown from the lakes & points east.

the current plan is for the Lagoon Cinema to be out of operation for 18-24 months while the hotel tower is built. the cinema will re-open below the ground floor of the hotel tower….trouble is that the folks who own the theater (Loews, IIRC) are playing hardball because they are sitting on an 18 year lease and want compensation for lost revenue + better positioning within the structure.

And let’s get serious. There aren’t enough Wayne/Christine types out there to keep anything in business. If you want something that caters to them, get ready to have about six stores. Call it “selling their soul” or whatever evil you want to make it out to be, but unless businesses can draw in patrons who might – god forbid – drive a car or – even worse! – not live within a 5-block radius, they are going to more than likely fail.

Exactly why I never go there.

This must be the foundation of Wayne’s profound happiness.

did Wayne ever have to take a Micoreconomics class amongst all that Urban Planning? a simple lesson in supply and demand might have done the boy some good. Nothing pumps up a neighborhood economy like alienating the folks with money to spend.

Have you ever even been to a real honest-to-god urban city, kevin?

I’m prety sure you must have at some point … haven’t you seen the way real neighbourhoods work? High enough density and good transit can keep all manner of stores in business.

Yes! But you didn’t answer my question about the Lagoon!!

They don’t have to build more parking. There are unused lots all over the place that you don’t even have the option of paying to park in because they are closed in the evenings. If they want a sustainable retail area for people to walk to lets tear down 90% of the retail and put in condos. No area with that much retail is going to be supported solely by foot and bike traffic.

It’s interesting, everyone hates all the establishments there but they want them just for themselves. People hate the suburbanites but it sounds like they are the only ones keeping the entire area from turning into a ghost town.

oh feh. if they’ve got that much money to spend they can fork over cash for parking like they do already. there’s some more supply and demand for you: limited supply + high demand = expensive parking.

There’s nothing wrong with Uptown. There are a lot of good restaurants (Lucia’s, Campiello, Figlio, Barbette, Chiang Mai Thai, even the Uptown for breakfast and bloodies) and two good movie theaters that are worth a drive. I tend to avoid the place in the evenings, but it’s a great area to spend a weekend afternoon.

Calhoun Square, on the other hand, is screwed. People in the Twin Cities prefer suburban shopping malls, near the highways and surrounded by parking lots. They don’t want to drive downtown; they don’t want to drive to uptown. Calhoun Square did okay, for a while, because it had an anchor tenant that drew people in, but it obviously can’t exist when it’s biggest draw is Kitchen Window.

Also, Hennepin Avenue is completely fucked. I don’t have a car — because I’m indie rock like Wayne — but last weekend I had the misfortune of being in a car between DT and Calhoun Square, and the traffic was ridiculous. City mofos need to figure out a way for people to turn w/o completely stopping traffic.

it’s true, the lack of glorious uptown in my life makes me a sad bitter little man.

wait, no.

Wayne,
I am not a traveler. But I do know that re-inventing the city is not practical or possible no matter how grand my visions might be or how much I might lust for it in my heart.

This must be the foundation of Wayne’s profound happiness.

I thought for sure this read Fountains of Wayne.

I don’t shop in Uptown because there’s nothing unique in Uptown. I can go to a bigger and better stocked Gap or Urban Outfitters at the Mall of America and park for free. If you’re going to bring in chains, bring in smaller chains that aren’t available in ten thousand other locations throughout the Cities, or encourage more independent retailers. I think a branch of the Bibelot would do well in Calhoun Square, or an American Apparel outlet, for example.

However, I do go to Uptown to eat, drink, and make merry, plus visit my dermatologist. Regardless of whether they’re annoying suburbanites or not, there’s always people there on a Saturday night, and I do love the roof at Stella’s in the summertime. And the tacos at Chino’s late night happy hour are pretty delicious.

I don’t have a car — because I’m indie rock like Wayne

he’s more emo.

And I thought for sure you’d go Fountains of Wayne…

No I’m not.

PS, mike, one of the most satisfying feelings around the cities that I’ve encountered is rushing past hundreds of cars on Hennepin Ave in uptown on your bike during rush hour.

Encouraging better restaurants–think Lucia’s, not Chino Latino–and less flashy, cheezy shopping and entertainment, and I have no doubt that area will thrive.

I’m not saying we need more places like Chino in uptown, but it deserves some credit. People from Hudson drive in to uptown to go to the ‘hip’ (and safe) restaurant. The place is always packed, it brings people to the area to spend money, and the food has been always been pretty decent.

Lucia’s, Barbette and others are for the neighborhood and the foodies. Chino is for the more knowledgeable masses. Uptown needs both.

Wayne,
I am not a traveler. But I do know that re-inventing the city is not practical or possible no matter how grand my visions might be or how much I might lust for it in my heart.

You don’t have to re-invent anything! You build on what’s already there, which actually makes uptown a great candidate. As much shit as I talk about Mozaic, I really do think uptown needs some higher-density development. If they ever build the SW corridor and go for the lyndale/greenway alignment the suburbanites could even take the train into uptown, which would solve most of the parking issues people might have (and possibly open more land for development that’s currently parking lots).

But good luck getting someone from Edina/EP/SLP/etc. older than sixteen to take a bus into uptown for leisure time.

I don’t even use the bus for leisure time. Takes too damn long.

Will somebody hurry up and post my post about getting MNSpeakers on the BBC!!!!! Time is of the essence.

Also, Hennepin Avenue is completely fucked.

Dear God, I hate driving on Hennepin between Uptown and DT. Put in a few fucking left hand turn signals, at least! Bah.

Or, even better, bring on the light rail!

on the BBC? What?

As soon as the weather gets nicer I rarely take the bus too. Unless I’ve got something heavy or am going more than 10 miles, I’ll bike everywhere.

Dear God, I hate driving on Hennepin between Uptown and DT

Take LaSalle / Blaisdell to Lake…it’s one-way & the lights are kind.

Amen on left turns! What happens, I think, is people get so pissed about waiting for someone to turn left that they all glom into the right lane, leaving it stacked for blocks and the left lane wide open. There were times when it took me longer to get from Franklin to 27th than it did to get from Mpls to St. Paul.

Hennepin traffic is much worse on weekend nights then it is during rush hour. I think extending the ‘No Left-Turn’ signs to weekend evenings would help a lot.

However I do find it entertaining watching the traffic jams out my window near 24th and Henn.

“Have you ever even been to a real honest-to-god urban city, kevin?”

I think one of the problems I continually see is that people think that the twin cities are a real honest to goodness urban city. Look at a map, this is about as sprawling a metro as you will find (Phoenix and Hotlanta have us beat).

We do not have the population density of the 5 largest markets in the country, (Houston shouldn’t count as it is a shithole), not even close. The irony of the whole thing is that the people wondering why we don’t have more foot traffic and better transport are the same ones lamenting the condo developments as “yuppy” and “gentrifying” that would create the density that brings money to build better transit and a denser city. The bottom line is that there aren’t a million people in MPLS-STPL combined, and there won’t be in our lifetimes.

So again, stop complaining and get to reproducing if you want a denser, more “urban city”. Or, you know, move.

“Mozaic: completing uptown’s long transition to yuptown. You can call it SLP East, if you like.”

That’s what’s wrong. Uptown is not punk rock or artsy anymore, unfortunately. It’d be nice if it was, but it’s not. It should move toward being “yuptown.” It needs to be like a Linkin Park — upscale shopping and upscale dining. That’s the only way the neighborhood can survive — it needs to act like a big city, upscale neighborhood in order to fend off chains and keep it distinctive. If it continues to try to be a neighborhoody area, more Blockbusters, Pizza Huts, Mcdonalds, Expresses, etc will move in because they will be the only ones who can survive.

I’d rather have upscale and distinctive (even if I can’t shop there), than a crappy, chain-y neighborhood slowly failing to stay quaint. Oh yeah, transit would definitely help.

David, I’m inclined to agree with at least part of what you said. Look at what I already wrote:

As much shit as I talk about Mozaic, I really do think uptown needs some higher-density development.

“The irony of the whole thing is that the people wondering why we don’t have more foot traffic and better transport are the same ones lamenting the condo developments as “yuppy” and “gentrifying” that would create the density that brings money to build better transit and a denser city.”

Very good point.

wayne – very fair.

Here is the deal as I see it. Just because uptown isn’t as “punk-rock” and artsy doesn’t mean that element no longer exists in this city. Gutter punks and artists can’t afford the rent their art and collective spectacle bring to the areas which they inhabit. This happens in every city (park slope, williamsburgh, mpd, dumbo in NYC) and has happened here before (warehouse district). Yeah, NE is over-rated and it sucks and it’s the worst blah blah blah, but the bottom line is many of the artists that made uptown a great place to find cheap adventures found cheaper rent and better studios in NKB and other places in the city.

Now, why anyone thought a giant Gap would work in Uptown I will never understand. I suppose it was there for 7 years or whatever, but I never saw more than 5 people in it.

I have a hard time deciding if I dislike the punk rock holdouts or the urban-outfitters I’m-still-young-yuppies in uptown more.

Gentrification is inevitable, but the part that always irks me is that it’s always always always aimed at the wealthy in the latter stages. No neighbourhood is ever ‘gentified’ into a decent middle-class area. They skip right over the middle class and go from poor artists to rich yuppies without passing through anything inbetween. If there was more of a middleclass transition phase there would at least be some housing stock for them to move around in the same way the poor artists do (from hood to hood).

Gentrification is inevitable, but the part that always irks me is that it’s always always always aimed at the wealthy in the latter stages. No neighbourhood is ever ‘gentified’ into a decent middle-class area.

None of the Vietnamese business owners on Nicollet I know–and they would, I think, count as the middle-class people you’re talking about–lives in Whittier–they mostly live in Brooklyn Park or Maple Grove. They all have kids (ok, not Thom Pham, who does have an apartment he owns across the street from Azia) and don’t like the schools (though I myself think that Whittier School ought to be given a chance) or the crime in the neighborhood. What attracts the edgy/Richard Florida types repels them.

It’s America. People make money selling things. Rich people buy more things than not rich people. Rich people have family members that do not need to have jobs so they spend all day shopping for shit they don’t need and eating expensive lunches they don’t finish. It’s just how it works. Average (51%?) middle-class people eat at Applebee’s and shop at the Gap because it is cheap and familiar. Why risk the money you worked hard for on something you might hate (i’ll leave out the commentary about how people get rich taking risks blah blah blah).

You know I am all for high density urban living–it’s just that in this city high density living usually means cheese…just look at the mozaic’s website, it’s like successories posters dotted with members of creed trying to sell a condo development. I mean, you would live on a floor called air? This isn’t even hip or yuppie, it is lame. It’s for guys who think they are cool, you know the type– shirt with buttons unbuttoned with chesthair sticking out, unusually tan with a pair of highly distressed jeans. I mean where are all the cool people in this city, why don’t they demand something different like developments in seattle and portland? The mozaic is just lame. if you doubt me check out their website, and if you doubt that go to a city like new york and see actual yuppie developments or hipster developments that don’t look they came out of 1999.

Calhoun Square is dated because it was dated when it was built.

i always thought Hennepin and Lyndale should be one-ways – southbound and northbound, respectively.

They skip right over the middle class and go from poor artists to rich yuppies without passing through anything inbetween.

I’m not opposed to all the condos and apartments. I’m opposed to all the condos and apartments being “luxury” places I couldn’t possibly afford. Especially in cases where an apartment building that I could afford got knocked down to build them.

People turning left on Hennepin piss me off. Especially the joker that thinks the “no left turn during rush hour” sign doesn’t apply to them. The left turn light at 28th works just fine. Put those in all along the way. People trying to get in and out of The Wedge (especially turning left to get in) are just as bad, though.

The only left turns that should be allowed off of Hennepin should be into the one-ways at 26th and 28th, and (necessary evil) Franklin.

One way streets: bad idea. They become mini-freeways; dangerous and no help to local businesses. Solution: heckifIknow. Fewer cars, maybe?

The Grand Avenue Mall in downtown Milwaukee was another case of a mall not working in a downtown-type scene. It was in bad shape when I left Mke in the 90s and I assume it’s worse now. Maybe people want to do their downtown shopping in a non-mall environment?

They skip right over the middle class and go from poor artists to rich yuppies without passing through anything inbetween.

Uh, I think that’s because artists make a neighborhood cool. Rich people like cool, because, well, it’s cool, and cool neighborhoods create opportunity for investment in the form of real estate and retail development.

Middle class families with blue hydrangeas and kiddie toys strewn about the yard do not a cool neighborhood make. (In my opinion)

It’s a bit of shameless advertising, but here goes. I posted a blog entry on the decline of CS in my blog last month; here’s the link:

http://grossreport.blogspot.com/2007/03/calhoun-square-just-another-mall.html

–Steve

I’m not opposed to all the condos and apartments. I’m opposed to all the condos and apartments being “luxury” places I couldn’t possibly afford. Especially in cases where an apartment building that I could afford got knocked down to build them.

This is exactly what I’ve been bitching about. The only moderately-priced housing added to the market is usually in the form of token units to either qualify for tax credits or as part of a deal to get height limits/etc. waived. The amount of units in that price range added, though, is usually less than the number removed to make way for luxury projects anyway.

The Grand Avenue Mall in downtown Milwaukee was another case of a mall not working in a downtown-type scene. It was in bad shape when I left Mke in the 90s and I assume it’s worse now. Maybe people want to do their downtown shopping in a non-mall environment?

I dunno about in general, but when I visited MKE last fall I stopped in the mall and it seemed decently busy. I’m not sure if business was good or not, but there were a lot of people in it.

You know I am all for high density urban living–it’s just that in this city high density living usually means cheese…just look at the mozaic’s website, it’s like successories posters dotted with members of creed trying to sell a condo development. I mean, you would live on a floor called air? This isn’t even hip or yuppie, it is lame. It’s for guys who think they are cool, you know the type– shirt with buttons unbuttoned with chesthair sticking out, unusually tan with a pair of highly distressed jeans. I mean where are all the cool people in this city, why don’t they demand something different like developments in seattle and portland? The mozaic is just lame. if you doubt me check out their website, and if you doubt that go to a city like new york and see actual yuppie developments or hipster developments that don’t look they came out of 1999.

OH SNAP

One-ways are good, we need them. Highways-in-the-city, as I call them, are needed for us in the city, so that we can get to and fro quickly. I think we should have more of them so commuters going short distances can have a legitimate non-Interstate option during rush hours and heavy traffic.

PS Steve, you are kind of my neighbour.

Lyndale residents (at least south of Lake) would crap themselves if you made their street a one-way, by the way. They are already pissed about people driving fast.

Portland and Park work because there’s little homeownership, and thus less people who care enough to bitch.

kwatt: “One-ways are good, we need them. Highways-in-the-city, as I call them, are needed for us in the city, so that we can get to and fro quickly. I think we should have more of them so commuters going short distances can have a legitimate non-Interstate option during rush hours and heavy traffic.”

I agree! One of the very impressive urban planning elements of MSP is the abundance of secondary arterials (what you think of as highways-in-the-city). The defining characteristics of these roads are: unchanging speed limits, few traffic lights, often (but not always) one-way traffic, and few intersections. I’ve noticed that while there are many such roads north of downtown, there are not as many in the southerrn half of Mpls. Does anyone know why?

–Steve

Has anyone mentioned the Lake Street re-do yet?
The same thing that f’d with East Lake for almost 2 years (raised taxes/ruined businesses) is now coming your way! Smart businesses leave now! We got a letter from the city about how it’s gonna TOTALLY mess-up everything…even the side streets.

Yeah, you can talk about public transportation, but SHOPPERS want easy access and free parking.

uptown is a boom town.

recently booming with condo projects, before that booming with high buck retail development.

it seems the evil “market” is telling us that leases are too expensive in Uptown. Too many businesses, paying too much rent, chasing too few customers.

vacancies will bring down rents, which will bring back businesses. hopefully, these businesses will focus on the neighborhood and not on the “tourists”, but property owners have a say in that too.

the market will try to find equilibrium, within the confines of local regulation/politics.

The same thing went wrong with Calhoun Square that went wrong with Riverplace, Butler Square, St. Anthony Main, and will probably go wrong with Midtown Global Market and Block E.

Profit-hungry, idealistic developers and investors, many who aren’t from here, actually thinking enough members of the flannel-shirt-and-clean jeans set might minivan into the Cities to mingle with the flannel-shirt-and-dirty-jeans set to support their cock-eyed ventures.

Lo and behold, the clean-jeans shitheads drive the dirty-jeans shitheads completely away. The project/mall/development gets devoured in the process, and vomited up in little shards that look like “FOR LEASE” signs.

I think the climate has more to do with it than we want to admit, too. Who wants to dirty their clean jeans mini-vanning into the Cities for shopping, drinking, and getting laid in a -40 windchill when all of these things can be had in the suburbs or online?

Oh holy crap, I just looked at that mozaic site. All I can think of is the Simpson’s episode when Homer voiced Poochie, the rapping-skateboarding dog. There’s about the same level of street cred. They want me to create my own “unique Uptown story.” BARF!

russ: “vacancies will bring down rents, which will bring back businesses. hopefully, these businesses will focus on the neighborhood and not on the “tourists”, but property owners have a say in that too.”

I hope you’re right, but I think there are a number of factors that have a pernicious influence on the supply/demand dynamics of urban retail. The attractiveness of an urban retail district is not simply the sum of the attractiveness of individual tenants. It is also a product of the physical density and product mix of that district. That is, if vacancies rise in a scattered fashion (think every third storefront being vacant, for instance), then the occupancy density decreases markedly across-the-board. This leads to an disproportionately exponential decrease in the overall attractiveness of the retail district. At that point, falling rents will not be sufficient to attract tenants back to the district. In fact, at that point you would need to re-prime the economic pump (think tax incentives, public investment in rebuilding infrastructure, etc.) to convince tenants to return even when the rents have fallen back to a reasonable level.

Sorry to be so grim,
–Steve

So if the gutter punks and artist used to claim Upotown and then moved to NE when they got married and had kids, where do the kids who graduate from college these days get apartments?

Oh, and I forgot about Uptown Bar! I still go to Uptown for that!

What is with all the Uptown hating?

It is a great neighborhood. So many college grad, undergrad, graduate students live there. It is a wonderful area. Much better than dysfunctioinal downtown which doesn’t even have a grocery store yet and nasty UMN area with worst rent and crime ever.

Uptown is awesome, tons of young people, lots of people biking, walking, enjoying small restaurants and cool grocery stores.

RE: One-way: Umm how about we don’t make any more streets “urban highways”. I live off 26th and people speed hard core on it. I don’t want to be scared to cross the street. I have seen three hard-core accidents in my area in the past two months. I’d rather have people be stuck in traffic in hennepin then deal with speeding assholes.

Oh and the solution to hennepin is not left turn signals, it is a light rail line which would create a good link between uptown and downtown. The bus dows a good job of that already for those of us who aren’t so special that they won’t use public transport.

I was a regular at the Uptown Bar for about 6 years.
We were there every Wednesday for the drawings.
I think I won 2 tv’s, 4-5 CD boomboxes, countless t-shirts and more gift certificates for food than I could use. I still have a nice Uptown Bucket Hat I wear in the sun,

I have a set of Uptown Bar pint glasses!

Whoa! Good grocery stores in Uptown? Hello ghetto Rainbow?! Since when is that a good store? Don’t even go there!

So if the gutter punks and artist used to claim Upotown and then moved to NE when they got married and had kids, where do the kids who graduate from college these days get apartments?

They get married and buy houses, duh!

Lyndale residents (at least south of Lake) would crap themselves if you made their street a one-way, by the way. They are already pissed about people driving fast.

Portland and Park work because there’s little homeownership, and thus less people who care enough to bitch.

Or maybe the reason why there’s little homeownership on Portland and Park is because of the giant speedy one-ways that are nearly impossible to cross.

Behind the Mortgage post on the same topic.

Have any of the people talking all this shit been in Uptown lately.

Christine, good grocery stores in Uptown:
1. Kowalski’s
2. The Wedge
3. Lunds
4. Rainbow (ok, so Rainbow sucks but it is good for some cheap things)

All of these are within 15 minutes walking distance from my place. 5mins if I bike. Name me another area in the cities, where I have this kind of a selection within walking distance.

Whoa! Good grocery stores in Uptown? Hello ghetto Rainbow?! Since when is that a good store? Don’t even go there!

I wonder if ghetto rainbow will survive/grow with all the development around them, will they be pushed out for the carpet grocery store set?

Depending on how you define uptown (east isles?, wedge?). Lund’s, Kowalski’s, and The Wedge. All with enough foot traffic to be a nice community grocery store.

Ok, no. The Wedge is not in Uptown.

It’s in Wedge World.

Get it right.

Rainbow is good for pie. That’s about it.

Wedge world? wtf are you talking about. Sounds like you are in Christine world.

Actually, it’s in Whittier, dude.

Not uptown. Totally different.

Step off!

Regardless of the technicalities of what neighborhood the wedge is actually in, it contributes to the excellent selection of grocery stores and the good food in them that is a present in the Uptown area.

I still challange people to name a more walkable neighborhood than uptown. It is the closest thing to a functional urban environment we have. As a bonus it is filled with awesome young people, mean age 24. Yes, Uptown is great.

vlado4 – The area where the Wedge is is actually called “The Wedge” (Franklin to 26th between Hennepin and Lyndale) in Whittier. But yeah, everyone considers everything south of Franklin Uptown. Also, you might want to take a closer look at a crime map, as aside from parts of Marcy Holmes, Dinkytown, Como, Riverside and Eastbank are relatively safe areas of town.

http://www.nrp.org/r2/Neighborhoods/Orgs/Organizations.html

Christine, regarding where are all the hip young college grads are moving, I can tell you St Anthony East & West are filling up. There aren’t all the cool old envied brownstones like there are in Uptown, but there are a lots of duplexes. So either there or Farmington, hip-central.

I completly agree with you vlado.

Whole Foods is also within walking or biking distance, depending on how far you are from the Lake.

I still challange people to name a more walkable neighborhood than uptown.

I’ll take Grand Avenue FTW.

The Wedge isn’t actually located in the Wedge neighborhood. It’s on the OTHER side of Lyndale…not that it really matters.

“I still challange people to name a more walkable neighborhood than uptown.”

I’m going to go with my neighborhood. Surdyks, Punch, Lunds (i know it’s not great), Fugaise, and 2 farmers Markets within walking distance…though I do envy Grand’s Patagonia store.

But the Wedge neighborhood is right across the street… and isn’t that why the store is called the Wedge?

See! Someone knows what I’m talking about!

Lyndale and Hennepin make a triangle: Hence the Wedge!

walk on Grand, you might have a Maz sighting
walk on E.Hennepin, you might have a Wayne sighting.

not sure what’s better.

I still challange people to name a more walkable neighborhood than uptown. It is the closest thing to a functional urban environment we have. As a bonus it is filled with awesome young people, mean age 24. Yes, Uptown is great.

The fact that uptown is ‘as good as it gets’ in Minneapolis (note that this excludes Grand Ave in St. Paul) is part of why I’m a little disenchanted with this city. I also realized I hate most of those people my age in uptown, so I guess I’m screwed for making friends.

Uptown is huge walkable. I never drove except I like to get six or seven bags of groceries.

Wayne, you never get screwed and we all know it.

David, does the farmer’s market up University really even count? I went one day last summer and they didn’t even have any fruit! It was just veggies from people’s gardens.

Wayne, you never get screwed and we all know it.

Okay, today MNSpeak has made me swallow my gum and almost spit water all over my screen. The hilarity, people!

(Nothing personal, Wayne, that was just pretty fucking funny.)

David, does the farmer’s market up University really even count? I went one day last summer and they didn’t even have any fruit! It was just veggies from people’s gardens.

I’m hoping this is a joke.

You can be my friend Wayne. Although I am young and live in uptown, so maybe you won’t like me.

Who cares about getting screwed when you are working on science or math. I spend my whole day in the lab working with chemicals and the only reason I go home is cause my gf makes me.

I think Uptown is a great place, but would like to see more open areas for people to chill. I wish we could have our own Union Square (ala NYC), anyone have suggestions of where I can find that in twin cities?

Wayne – The one in the Moronite Catholic Chuch lot? It is definitely small, but considering there aren’t a ton of fruits that grow in Minnesota (apples, berrys, melons, excluded) and there aren’t many orchards in the area it stands to reason that they don’t have much fruit (notice at the MPLS Farmers Market the fruit is coming out of waxed boxes from California and Florida for the most part).

There are some great Hmong family vendors selling produce from community gardens and Lebonese ladies selling prepared food which I like, at the NE Market. I usually just go to buy veggies as I am resigned to the fact that grapefruit trees aren’t going to grow here until at least another 50 years of global warming takes place.

The one in the church parking lot up University NE?

Seriously, there were like five people there with garden veggies and not much else. Maybe I just picked a shitty day or was really late or something, but I didn’t feel like hoofing it back up there to find out.

As a soon-to-be young college grad, I’m probably going to head to St. Louis Park because it’s cheaper than the city and I can get downtown in the morning without having to touch a freeway. Honestly, I’d rather live where I do in North Minneapolis any day than live in Uptown. I’d rent in a duplex around there before I’d go to Uptown. I just don’t feel that safe (and neither does my bank account).

actually vlado you seem like someone I would really get along with, even if you do live in uptown. I’ll admit to having a few friends who live in uptown, and at least one more moving there soon ):

And speaking of urban squares, did you ever see anything about the idea to turn the parking lot next to the library into a park? I thought it would make a better urban plaza, being at the important crossroads it’s at. Moreso when the whole foods/possible best buy go in there. The location is pretty perfect, there are no super tall buildings there to block out the sun (especially now that they’re cancelling the condo project over the whole foods), it’s a decently large space and I imagine it would get some nice use since there aren’t really any parks on that side of downtown until you hit the river, which is a different vibe anyway.

yeah some of the prepared food looked good, but I guess I was just really in a mood for fruits that day. the climate thing actually never occured to me.

Hrum.

Uncertainty destroyed Calhoun Square the last couple years. A moving construction schedule and unknown lease durations, who can do business like that (except Kitchen Window and entertainment venues)?

Remove all one-ways in the city. One-ways destroy the grid, grids work for moving cars for people who live in the city. We continue to build infrastructure to enable bad habits like driving 40 mph and never walking. We love visitors to our neighborhood, but don’t expect our neighborhood to be built around your visits – it should be built for the folks living in it. But I’m just a notoriously cranky uptown community dweller, so live it up at Chino, I’ll be a Lucia’s Bar for happy hour.

A lot of the young professionals I work with/around live out in SLP where they bought their first condo at 22-25.

I can’t really understand the appeal, though. I guess its proximity to uptown, maybe?

I just don’t feel that safe

Seriously? I feel much safer in the uptown area than I did when I lived in Robbinsdale and Hopkins/SLP.

My rent is also cheaper

I’m looking at buying a condo in the North Loop, but I guess that makes me a yuppie gentrifier than a hip young college grad.

You know, now that I think about it, Calhoun Square is just like…A MINI MALL.

PS here’s a great article in Slate today about the ills of free/cheap parking!

Are you kidding? St. Louis Park? That is Lame with a capital L.

St. Anthony East/West? Where the hell is that?

And making that parking lot into a urban plaza is the best idea I’ve heard in years. I always feel like just hanging out there instead of parking. Besides, I work right next door and I need a cooler place to each my lunch than the picnic tables behind the building.

Young people today dissappoint me. St. Louis Park… You should be ashamed!

St. Louis park – definitely a lame-ass suburb. Far away from downtown, far away from anything.

Uptown means cheap rent for what you get and awesome location, awesome.

Personally, I am glad the people that love the suburbs go there right after college. That leaves a more awesome breed of city dwellers in my area. Ehh..

While I think the suburbs may be cool for when I want to have a family, I would not dream of moving out of the city until then (and am not sure if I would do it then either).

Go Uptown! (and other city hoods)

Has anyone mentioned the Lake Street re-do yet?

That’s gonna SUCK, but it’s a necessary evil, I guess. It’s our turn.

Oh and the solution to hennepin is not left turn signals, it is a light rail line which would create a good link between uptown and downtown. The bus dows a good job of that already for those of us who aren’t so special that they won’t use public transport.

I’m all for that. I only ever ride the bus from uptown to downtown anyway. Instead of driving, I mean. Not instead of riding the bus elsewhere.

Since Uptown Rainbow already has such cockroach-like qualities, I suspect it’ll surive the Lake St construction just fine.

Not to belabor the point, but the Wedge (neighborhood, aka Lowry Hill East) extends down to Lake Street. “Uptown” (an economic distinction) technically goes from Hennepin to Dupont and from 28th to 31st, but includes those businesses on the west side of Hennepin between 28th and 31st. The Wedge Co-op is technically in Whittier.

If I *had* to live in a suburb, I’d probably live in SLP on account of its proximity to Uptown. It’s not actually all that far from downtown. All the 20-somethings I work with live in Eden Prairie or farther west (*retch*). I’ve lived in three different places in Plymouth (*retch*retch*) and that was a haul.

“Personally, I am glad the people that love the suburbs go there right after college. That leaves a more awesome breed of city dwellers in my area.“

There was this old Gahan Wilson cartoon that had two groups of very different species standing apart, one of which had drippy, slimey tentacles and oozing pus-filled sores all over their slug-like bodies, and the other looked like putrid green jello with rat faces sticking straight up, and one tentacled slug whispers to another “my god, they’re hideous!”

Christine – I posted a neighborhood map earlier…might I suggest you read it. For someone so strident in folks conforming to neighborhood boundries, you sound like a nincompoop when you don’t know where a neighborhood actually is.

“St. Anthony East/West? Where the hell is that?”

It’s where Surdyk’s, Nea, Punch, Taraccino, Fugaise, Whities, GH2, nice parks, cheap rent and generally all the other things you wish you had a block from your house are. Perhaps you’ll tie a wagon to the back of you 10 speed and move over here one day! You can stay at Wayne’s.

St. Anthony East/West? Where the hell is that?

combined, st anthony east/west is basically east of the river, south of broadway, west of central, and north of henepin ( by lunds, surdyks – aka “waynes world”).

but you were pretty annoying about the whole Wedge thing earlier, so you might wanna just look it up.

Come on…in terms of suburbs, SLP is far from being the lamest. I give you Woodland, Tonka Bay, Tonka Beach, Spring Park and Greenwood, subrubs comprised of one street and 10-20 residents.

I used to enjoy going over to Uptown for dinner, drinks and movies, but I stopped going about 3 years ago because it’s become a royal pain in the ass to drive from downtown, where I live, down either on Hennepin or Lyndale. It’s a nightmare to try and find parking that’s within a few blocks of where I’m going, if you can find parking at all. The whole area has gotten way too congested and crowded to make it an enjoyable place to hang out with friends anymore. I’ll pick Southdale or Rosedale now for going out to shop, eat, drink, etc…..

woops, somebody beat me to it. (and of course it’s spelled “hennepin”.)

Wow, I didn’t know that I was going for “cool” points with you guys when I was looking for apartments.

Hold on, let me check my give-a-shit book…

…nope, nothing there.

generally all the other things you wish you had a block from your house are.

Oh, honey! I’ve many good things within a block from my house. Don’t you worry.

I’ve got MIA within a block, some recovering drug addicts and Pancho Villa! Oh. My. God. Yum.

Sorry I didn’t know it was called St. Anthony East/West, I thought it was called Nordeast or whatever. Now I know! I am humbled! Forgive! Forgive!

Btw, that map is sweet!

I’ve got my heart set on Seward!

Which suburb -just like which neighborhood in the city- is clearly a question of taste. Personally, if I had to live in a suburb it would be a toss-up between St. Louis Park and Golden Valley. They both have older homes, shopping, parks and lakes, and are close to the city.

The Wedge isn’t actually located in the Wedge neighborhood. It’s on the OTHER side of Lyndale…not that it really matters.

Just to clarify that: the Wedge used to be in the Wedge neighborhood (on Franklin) when they started up in the ’70s and they moved into their much larger space where they’re at now in the ’90s.

It’s Mpls what do you expect. Uncontrolled crime and nothing being done about. Why do you think all the kids on the northside are trying to go to surburban schools. Uptown is only blocks from some of the worse neighborhoods in south Mpls. Why should any one be surprised if it spreads to uptown.

And Mpls schools don’t teach people how to use commas or question marks, or what the past tense of “worse” is, so, whaddya gonna do, you gotta go to suburban schools.

Forget it, Jake. It’s MplsTown.

“Oh, honey! I’ve many good things within a block from my house. Don’t you worry.”

Did I come off worried? I was going for “unconcerned”. i need to recalibrate my internet concern projection index.

former mpls resident – stay scared you ridiculous suburban patrician dipshit. You’re daughter is much more likely to catch terminal, incurable mutant gonorrhea from Troy Quarterback at West Tonka High than get shot in Uptown. Oh your heaven-cast fist shaking, ruing her sterility and your inability to purchase Lexi for your boring, non-existant grandchildren with only further your bitterness until you slip, peacefully, into enternal slumber (in your cheap looking 1000 sq foot bedroom).

Heh, I’m feeling beligerant tonight.

PS Christine – I am envious of your proximity to MIA and Bad Waitress’ banana splits. Plus there is a brownstone in your neighborhood that says BAUHAUS on it, which is pretty rad is I like the band and the movement commited to form following function.

I’m with Foureyes on this one. What is so lame about St. Louis Park? It’s a hell of a lot better than most of the crap we have. At least it’s gridded and actually names its neighborhoods. First ring suburbs are, in many ways, a part of the “inner city.”

Uptown’s no Castro, but it what we have to work with. So instead of bitching about it online, why don’t you make shit happen.

What is so lame about St. Louis Park?

Too jewy.

Wayne:

Do you have an email address / blog?

–Steve

Haha. Bauhaus! I know that place! You could live there if you had a couple of hundred thousand dollars.

The Bad Waitress rules!!

does the bad waitress still make you write your order on a piece of paper? that’s retarded

I think that’s why they call it Bad Waitress instead of Good Waitress.

so that’s a ‘yes’ then? bleh. it’s schtick-y.

Yes, you still have to write your order down on a piece of paper.

No different from what they do at the Seward Cafe.

k. thanks.

“No different from what they do at the Seward Cafe.”

And as a bonus, at Bad Waitress you don’t have to tolerate the overwhelming stench of body odor.

The Bad Waitress’s schtick is totally contrived, and they charge too much for what has -on more than two occasions- been tepid, boring food.

Seward Cafe, on the other hand, ROCKS. (And I’m regularly-showered, tattoo-and-dredlock-free fiscal conservative, imagine that.)

Whoa! Whoa!

The Bad Waitress has wireless! And cool dinner-esque booths. And cute alternative guys. And a juke box chocked full of 80’s tunes.

Plus I live right around the corner so I’m there like two times a week.

Seward is sweet. Especially outside.

*diner not dinner

It may be alright for a cup of coffee and surfing the web, particularly if the nearby Spyhouse doesn’t have wireless. (Does it? I don’t know.) I just don’t care for the menu, nor for the feeling I get that the owners/designers were trying REALLY hard to make the place seem cool.

It’s all a question of preference, of course. I just prefer the Seward Cafe’s mellow vibe… and the delightfully decrepit patio is my favorite place to sit too!

Spyhouse does have wireless, too.

Spyhouse and Bad Waitress are owned by the same person.

See you around there Christine.

the bad waitress has giant pancakes. I wish I’d known that before I ordered a short stack WITH my omlette.

so much food.

Yeah, see you around there, even though yr anonymous and kinda of stalkery.

Just kidding.