Secrets of the City

The metro area includes places like Maplefuckinggrove so get off your high horse about people leaving the city jderusha.

Why not move to the Sun Belt? Who needs this 30 degrees and lower shit we have in APRIL.

If the previous pace had continued, the federal estimates suggest, we’d have 50,000 more people than we actually have, roughly the equivalent of another Apple Valley.

Why would we want another Apple Valley? The one we have ain’t all that great…except the baby animals at the zoo are kinda cute.

Minnesota will never see the rapid, unsustainable growth that you’ll find in various Sun Belt hotspots, but it is alarming that Minnesota incomes are growing slower than the national average. Are top earners suddenly fleeing the state suddenly “fleeing the state because of high taxes” (despite 5 years of static rates), or are the people under those “real producers” getting squeezed?

Err, so the point is that incomes are dropping, as is growth… coincidence?

You are an idiot, numbers lie. Try reading the article:

After its population boomed in the 1990s, the Twin Cities metro area is still growing, but at a much slower rate.

Other places are growing quicker than we are. I’ve never been a cheerleader for people leaving the city, or for Maple Grove for that matter. Many here are robustly anti-suburb. I’ve just tried to present a different viewpoint. Without resorting to profanity.

50,000 fewer people is a good thing. And if it weren’t for all the immigrants, illegal and otherwise, we’d have a net reduction in people. That’s a good thing.

But I get the impression that the writer was attempting to make excuses for the reduction in population growth (the bad weather? haha, yeah, right … I know LOTS of people who’ve left and none did so because of the weather) instead of taking the angle that fewer people puts less stress on our infrastructure. That’s all good, people.

Ooh, it’s nice to see Jason come out swinging.

One theory: As long as its economy is red hot, a northern city can easily pull people in. But when job growth slackens, the natural tendency is to head for the sun.

“A hot job market counteracts cold weather,” said William Frey, a demographer with the Washington, D.C.-based Brookings Institution.

Is he talking about regionally “red hot” markets? If so this is some kind of bullshit doublespeak. What he means is when the job market sucks everywhere else they move to colder climates to talk the jobs they can get. People actually pay this guy to say worthless shit like this.

I blame ethanol for the growth slowdown. I used to blame the smoking ban, but now I blame ethanol.

Ethanol killed Easter, according to Jason.

wow

Maz has a point. Worldwide, fewer people would be better. A LOT fewer people. Unfortunately, cities that aren’t growing in population seem to die economically. So the entire world needs to stop growing in population at once. I don’t have any ideas for that that aren’t beyond even my limit of online forum appropriateness.

Detroit had a large influx of southern people, including black people, when the auto makers were in their prime. They came from all over the warm south to good paying jobs in cold Detroit. That accounts for Detroit’s large black population even . Ask Erica where her people are from sometime.

JaSON! JaSON! JaSON!

Speak of the devil.

ALAMN, you are an idiot.

Ah, just kidding. I wanted to keep the anger flowing.

Detroit had all of its eggs in one basket, and now those eggs are broken, fried and inedible. Latest in a sad saga. They couldn’t even save Jerome Bettis’s high school.

ALAMN, you are an idiot.

Ah, just kidding. I wanted to keep the anger flowing.

Heh! Well, if you and WCCO-TV want to jump on the anti-ethanol bandwagon, you are in good company. Some examples:

Iranian national television. Fidel Castro. Hugo Chavez.

Stll waiting to hear what bin Ladin thinks about E85.

Leave the poor TV guy alone. He has to wear makeup for his job.

I think it’s more that he likes to than that he has to.

Speaking of eggs, did anybody catch Jason’s report last night that ethanol fuel is going to ruin Easter?

And I’m pretty sure Erica’s people come from Germany.

Did I say it was going to ruin Easter? I should have. Because if anything’s going to ruin Easter at my house, it’s a 33 cent increase in the cost of a dozen eggs.

Oh, I guess Bob saw it.

Poor Easter.

BTW, grote and erica, some of our ethanol-lovin outdoor air staff had their picture taken with The Bus last month at a General Motors event in Bloomington. Jerome Bettis is a long-time friend of the American Lung Association, and has served as a spokesperson on our asthma campaigns.

And as Bob certainly knows, accusing WCCO of being anti-ethanol is hilariously silly.

More pagan propaganda from the MSM.

Time to get back to the population issue!
Maybe the slowdown in growth is caused by someone dumping all of those bodies down the sewer in a previous thread . . . bwahahaha

Thanks not from here! Bloody sewage can’t be a good sell point for our area. “uh.. I’d rather move somewhere warm. You guys have too much blood in your sewers.”

I was blood into the sewers all the time.

I’m also hoping to help Minnesota’s population shrink in the next few years by moving away. But that might be a while, so don’t get your hopes up.

So yeah back to the slowing growh in the metro and income dropping. I can see how, if you’re not from this darn state and not used to this weather you might want to move to a more reasonable climate. I have been in MN for 10 years and i tell ya, can’t wait to move to Miami or San Diego. I am actually puzzle that Minneapolis and Chicago are the size they are with this type of weather.

Now i think incomes have dropped because a lot of firms are consolidating and moving headquarters to other cities. Marshall Fields for example and i know for a fact my company (i work for a brokerag firm) is moving its HQ to NYC. Lots of people being let go and moving to the big apple.

Perhaps Iowa’s economy is on the upswing and they will stop moving up here. (Like I did…)

Rod, the climate issue is a big one for us too, as far as recruiting talent to this area. People think it’s way colder than it really is. When I go to conferences, other reporters/anchors always ask about the weather. I know the visitors bureau has done surveys that say the perception of cold is one of the only things people know about the Twin Cities.

That said, it is frickin’ cold here.

I was blood into the sewers all the time.

Wow, that’s a hard sentence to parse.

I am become blood, destroyer of sewers.

I was? I put!

When I go to conferences, other reporters/anchors always ask about the weather.

As opposed to on the news, where they talk about … oh, nevermind.

Iowa’s econony is not on the upswing. It still as sucky and blue collar as ever.

“I mean, on the Golf Channel, every other city seemed to have green grass and blue sky!”

i’m glad that guy’s leaving.

This is OT, but any Comcast subscribers experiencing rolling internet blackouts?

Rod, the climate issue is a big one for us too, as far as recruiting talent to this area. People think it’s way colder than it really is.

Reporter from LA, “so, Jason, I’m thinking about a transfer to Minneapolis….I hear that it’s a nice, clean city, but that the temperature gets down in the 20’s in mid-april…is that true?”

Derusha, “um…uh…depends on whether you’re talkin’ farenheit or celsius”

And as Bob certainly knows, accusing WCCO of being anti-ethanol is hilariously silly.

Jason is just mad because he got scooped on his “Ethanol Starves the Poor” post by Iranian TV.

Forgive the lengthy (and off-topic) post, but I am concerned about some of the reporting — including WCCO’s — on cellulosic ethanol. Don Shelby and I discussed this issue at length off-camera with an executive from GM a couple of months ago, Don’s ready to give the Noble Prize to U of M Profs. Tilman and Hill for their research on cellulosic ethanol.

As promising as the U of M research is, it has huge hurdles to overcome in cost, transportation issues and technology. In short, making ethanol out of corn stover, prarie grass or the oft-mentioned switchgrass is much more difficult and expensive that corn or sugar ethanol — which is why no one is doing it yet, outside of the laboratory.

This key fact just doesn’t rise to the surface in a lot of recent news coverage and opinion pieces, and I am afraid Minnesotans will get their hopes up, only to get disapointed and discouraged with biofuels when the reality check on cellulosic ethanol finally arrives.

To their credit, the authors of “How biofuels could starve the poor” do a good job of addressing the challenges near the end of their article:

“For now, however, the costs of harvesting, transporting, and converting such plant matters are high, which means that cellulose-based ethanol is not yet commercially viable when compared with the economies of scale of current corn-based production. One ethanol-plant manager in the Midwest has calculated that fueling an ethanol plant with switchgrass, a much-discussed alternative, would require delivering a semitrailer truckload of the grass every six minutes, 24 hours a day. The logistical difficulties and the costs of converting cellulose into fuel, combined with the subsidies and politics currently favoring the use of corn and soybeans, make it unrealistic to expect cellulose-based ethanol to become a solution within the next decade.”

Now i think incomes have dropped because a lot of firms are consolidating and moving headquarters to other cities

Take the area’s average income of a few years ago, then add tens of thousands of new people from somalia, mexico, central america and southeast asia, and their meager earnings (if any) and then ask yourself what that does to the area’s average income.

Reporter from LA, “so, Jason, I’m thinking about a transfer to Minneapolis….I hear that it’s a nice, clean city, but that the temperature gets down in the 20’s in mid-april…is that true?”

The answer to this question should always be “It keeps the riff raff out!”

Jason, on commercial break do you ever lean over to Don and simply say, “Big-D? We’re talking about eggs. You and I. That’s journalism, baby…”

By far, last night’s leading segment was the most head-scratching “huh, this is the best news available” moment in the history of broadcast news. But you served it up with panache per usual. Almost seemed important.

Mazz i am from mexico and my earnings are far from meager, thanks.

Well, that’s one out of 11 million.

Building off what Maz said, maybe instead of letting a bunch more people into our country/state we should focus on improving the lot of those who are already here. I am not anti-immigration, but it’s inhumane to allow massive immigration if we can’t provide them with much and if they don’t have the ability to thrive.

Nothing like hatred and ignorance to start off the Holiday Weekend – Happy Easter!

RodG — you have to admit the fact that the majority of immigrants from Mexico (or any other country) are not coming in and making huge salarys. You can argue their benefits/problems, but you can’t argue that. Obviously there are exceptions but as a rule the influx of immigrants could only have lowered average income. The only way they wouldn’t is if they generated enough income for other people to offset it, which I don’t have any numbers for.

The point is though stating that immigrants make meager incomes is not hatred and ignorance, it is just stating the truth.

I don’t hate you Rod. I think you’re cute, actually.

I imagine it’s not quite the most head-scratching lead story ever… but we’re trying to do less police-blotter-type news and more thought-provoking stories. I tried to look beyond the price hike and get into the underlying causes.

Sunday’s Strib had its top story above the fold about a bouncer training bars to be safe. I think we’re all feeling our way around this new media world where people already know the headlines.

Anyway, this ethanol/corn/egg story maybe needs its own thread.

whatever happened to just making shit up and calling it news? News was better when Dan Rather was here.

whatever happened to just making shit up and calling it news?

Just watch the Fox News Channel, if that’s what you’re looking for.

I would, but that BREAKING NEWS scroll along the bottom ALL DAY gives me a headache. That and I don’t dig on fascists.

Well, that’s one out of 11 million.

…

One can argue either way on the economics and of course i know that the history of ANY migration is a history of people moving to different countries/regions and typically working in low paying jobs. Then of course the subsequent generations make more money and are educated.

From the economics point of view, and older country like the US (with so many baby boomers retiring in the near future) could benefit from young immigrants that do pay taxes and will support the baby boomer generation. And yes, many illegal immigrants also pay taxes (read yesterday’s WSJ article “Even Workers in US Illegally Pay Tax Man”)

Canada is cold as the dickens, and yet has some of the most progressive, well-run and well-populated cities in the world. Sun-belt states, along with the nice warm breezes, have piles of problems that make complaining about cold rather insignificant. To wit: Florida scares the crap out of me.

And yah, this cold weather is heading east, to fancy towns like NYC. We’re not the only ones getting cold this April.

Rod,

It’s fine and dandy that these illegal immigrants pay taxes to support the boomers, but that’s not necessarily an ideal situation. These people don’t deserve to be exploited. Running a country on the backs of illegal, disenfranchised help may work for Dubai, but we’re better than that.

Running a country on the backs of illegal, disenfranchised help may work for Dubai, but we’re better than that.

No we’re not. I know a guy who brags about how he had his roof replaced at half the price than I paid … thanks to “a bunch of illegal mexicans.”

Gotta get my roof done.

Can I get that guy’s number?

That said, it is frickin’ cold here.

Watch your mouth M.G. Cheerleader!

I did some roofing as summer work in college…you’d have to be crazy or desperate to do that job full time. I was amazed by the mayan masochists who did the roofing on my in-laws’ house in scottsdale…gringos are just not built to lay terra cotta shingles in 120 degrees

Maz,

Do you feel it’s right for us to treat these illegals as we did/do the natives?

They came from all over the warm south to good paying jobs in cold Detroit. That accounts for Detroit’s large black population even . Ask Erica where her people are from sometime.

I’m not even sure how to take that.

she might just answer “Palmer Woods”.

she might just answer “Palmer Woods”

I wish. The short answer is I grew up in “Five Points.” Mom’s from “Eight Mile Wyoming” and dad’s from Dearborn. (Minneapolis has much better neighborhood names.)

Which means nothing to anyone. But since you asked….

I’ll perpetuate the racism and note that I thought only Arabs came from Dearborn. FWIW, my “our people” came from Little Falls, MN and Jamestown, NY.

Here’s a link to the release about state income growth.

Notice that Louisiana saw a huge jump, since all those po’ folks moved out, but it’s still lagging in the rankings.

I think you people need a little lesson in geneology and/or u.s. historical migration patterns.

If they didn’t come from County Cork, I don’t care.

erica…until I hit that link I had always assumed that Telegraph was the Detroit / Redford-Livonia border.

I grew up just off of Telegraph Rd. too.…but lived here my last 3 years in MI.

pretty drastic change of scenery.

Maz, I thought you were a capitalist. What’s wrong with exploiting labor? I would think a flood of cheap, un-unionized, semi-literate people just waiting to pull themselves up by the bootstraps is the American way.

Your assumption that capitalism is synonymous with exploiting labor says more about your inadequate education from leftist indoctrineers than it does about me and/or capitalism, sir. I pay at, or above market wages. Not because I’m a nice guy, but because I want to ensure quality of workmanship.

Sparber,

County Cork in the Hiz-ouse! That’s where my good side is from.

But Mazz, large international cooperations tend to favor exploitation. Hell, it’s an arguably worse sort of exploitation than that to which your ancestors were subjected.

I might be in the minority here but when you look back at it, was slavery really so bad?

Those people had good jobs, were well fed, had a kind of home-spun health care and society wasn’t riddled with the problems (which we call pay for with your democratic taxes) of crime, unwanted children, and so forth.

I am not saying we should go back there but I am saying we should not say it was all bad.

It built this country. heh.

Do not confuse large international corporations with capitalism. They embrace socialism. They LOVE big government regulations because they hurt their small-company competitors who can’t afford them as easily as the large corporations who have armies of attorneys.

Big international corporations are on capital hill right now lobbying for subsidies and tax breaks to stay in business. Big international corporations WANT government-run universal health care so they can delete that little line item from their expenses. Nope. Big corporations are not capitalists, their socialists. I knew that when Bill Clinton ran for president and bragged about all the Fortune 500 CEOs who were supporting him.

I pay at, or above market wages. Not because I’m a nice guy, but because I want to ensure quality of workmanship.

Heh, try telling that to the bank.

can we enslave maz now? he seems ok with it!

You know what? I’ve seen the light. Damn, but I’ve been wrong all along. Maz has been right! Captalism is the answer. Lord, please forgive me for doubting him. He’s really shown me the way. [sobs]

Do not confuse large international corporations with capitalism.

This is exactly what socialists and communists all over the Western world said for decades about the Soviets.

“Oh, that’s an imperfect example. Just wait, we’ll show you ‘the true way to do it’ once we get going. That’s not what the book said to do.”

This is OT, but any Comcast subscribers experiencing rolling internet blackouts?

I don’t know about that. But Comcast is telling customers “to curb excessive bandwidth consumption or risk a one-year service termination”.

I thought only Arabs came from Dearborn — I almost made a point to note that my dad’s not Arabic.

until I hit that link I had always assumed that Telegraph was the Detroit / Redford-Livonia border. — We’re the last outpost. Not quite Redford, not quite Southfield.

pretty drastic change of scenery — Indeed. Sheesh. Were you going to Wayne State?

I’ll be your slave, Wayne!

Do not confuse large international corporations with capitalism. They embrace socialism. They LOVE big government regulations because they hurt their small-company competitors who can’t afford them as easily as the large corporations who have armies of attorneys.

Not anarcho-socialists.

yes…completed my BA @ WSU & ended up managing this place.

erica…did you go to Henry Ford or Redford (or Cass)?

Is that the real Maz?

I’m suspicious.

I’m going to go dig out the ol’ cat-o-nine-tails that belonged to great great grandpappy

erica…did you go to Henry Ford or Redford (or Cass)?

Neighborhood school was Henry Ford, but had I stayed in public school I would have gone to Renaissance. Actually went to Royal Oak Shrine instead.

I can’t believe they’re closing Mackenzie and Murray-Wright. Wow.

The Majestic! Cool. How long have you lived here, grote?

Been here since Feb 2000…was @ the Majestic 1994ish until I left….Long enough that I either hired, fired or forcibly removed from the bar at least 80% of the people in this trailer.

According to the State Personal Income thing, we’re in the “Plains” region with Kansas, instead of the “Great Lakes” region with Wisconsin.

Hi, Lake Superior. Heard of it?

I know it shouldn’t upset me, but it does.