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	<title>Comments on: Senate Passes Indoor Smoking Ban</title>
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	<link>http://www.secretsofthecity.com/mnspeak/10229</link>
	<description>A Daily Digest of Twin Cities News, Arts and Culture</description>
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		<title>By: alamn</title>
		<link>http://www.secretsofthecity.com/mnspeak/10229#comment-77388</link>
		<dc:creator>alamn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Apr 2007 19:21:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-77388</guid>
		<description>April 2, 2007 update: The House bill passed out of Rep. Rukavina&#039;s committee today on a voice vote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>April 2, 2007 update: The House bill passed out of Rep. Rukavina&#8217;s committee today on a voice vote.</p>
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		<title>By: alamn</title>
		<link>http://www.secretsofthecity.com/mnspeak/10229#comment-76948</link>
		<dc:creator>alamn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 17:44:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-76948</guid>
		<description>An anniversary worth noting: March 31, 2007 marks the two-year anniversary of the Minneapolis, Golden Valley, Ramsey County, and Hennepin County clean indoor air ordinances.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Two years of smokefree air. &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.mnspeak.com/mnspeak/archive/post-1541.cfm&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;&gt;Happy birthday, smoking ban&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An anniversary worth noting: March 31, 2007 marks the two-year anniversary of the Minneapolis, Golden Valley, Ramsey County, and Hennepin County clean indoor air ordinances.</p>
<p>Two years of smokefree air. <a href="http://www.mnspeak.com/mnspeak/archive/post-1541.cfm" target="_blank">Happy birthday, smoking ban</a>.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: bobby_b</title>
		<link>http://www.secretsofthecity.com/mnspeak/10229#comment-76931</link>
		<dc:creator>bobby_b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 17:04:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-76931</guid>
		<description>What do you mean, &quot;we are not a legislative intent state&quot;?  It&#039;s argued all the time.  There are some evidentiary hurdles placed on it, but still, if you can clearly show the intent in a situation where ambiguity has been found, it&#039;s valid and useful.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Or did you mean, we don&#039;t recognize the &quot;yeah, that may be what the words of the statute say, but it&#039;s not what they meant&quot; argument?  If so, yeah, you still need that ambiguity finding first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What do you mean, &#8220;we are not a legislative intent state&#8221;?  It&#8217;s argued all the time.  There are some evidentiary hurdles placed on it, but still, if you can clearly show the intent in a situation where ambiguity has been found, it&#8217;s valid and useful.</p>
<p>Or did you mean, we don&#8217;t recognize the &#8220;yeah, that may be what the words of the statute say, but it&#8217;s not what they meant&#8221; argument?  If so, yeah, you still need that ambiguity finding first.</p>
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		<title>By: kwatt</title>
		<link>http://www.secretsofthecity.com/mnspeak/10229#comment-76776</link>
		<dc:creator>kwatt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2007 21:30:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-76776</guid>
		<description>I may  not have been clear.  My point was that we are not a legislative intent state so the law needs to be as clear as possible or else we will leave these decisions in the hands of judges.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I may  not have been clear.  My point was that we are not a legislative intent state so the law needs to be as clear as possible or else we will leave these decisions in the hands of judges.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: bobby_b</title>
		<link>http://www.secretsofthecity.com/mnspeak/10229#comment-76771</link>
		<dc:creator>bobby_b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2007 20:49:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-76771</guid>
		<description>&quot;&lt;em&gt; You seem to be a relatively conservative person; why would you give any credence whatsoever to &quot;legislative intent&quot;? My experience has been that the Legislature wants analysis to start and stop with the text of the statute, and courts are generally happy to oblige. (Of course, it helps to start with an unambiguous statute.)&lt;/em&gt;&quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My experience is that any statute can easily be found to be ambiguous by a motivated judge.  Many are poorly written, and are, in fact, ambiguous, while others are merely inconsistent with the judge&#039;s philosophies.  Similarly, any statute can be mis-read or mis-interpreted by a motivated, dumb, or misled judge, and then, legislative intent can get you back home when nothing else will.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;<em> You seem to be a relatively conservative person; why would you give any credence whatsoever to &#8220;legislative intent&#8221;? My experience has been that the Legislature wants analysis to start and stop with the text of the statute, and courts are generally happy to oblige. (Of course, it helps to start with an unambiguous statute.)</em>&#8220;</p>
<p>My experience is that any statute can easily be found to be ambiguous by a motivated judge.  Many are poorly written, and are, in fact, ambiguous, while others are merely inconsistent with the judge&#8217;s philosophies.  Similarly, any statute can be mis-read or mis-interpreted by a motivated, dumb, or misled judge, and then, legislative intent can get you back home when nothing else will.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Confused</title>
		<link>http://www.secretsofthecity.com/mnspeak/10229#comment-76624</link>
		<dc:creator>Confused</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2007 16:04:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-76624</guid>
		<description>Can someone explain to me what&#039;s the point of the patio provision? To explain my confusion, I give you the following definitions, straight from bill text:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;em&gt;Subd. 1a. Indoor area. &quot;Indoor area&quot; means all space between a floor and a ceiling that is bounded on two or more sides by walls...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Subd. 1b. Place of employment. &quot;Place of employment&quot; means any indoor area...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Subd. 2. Public place. &quot;Public place&quot; means any enclosed, indoor area used by the general public...&lt;/em&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And smoking is prohibited in the following places:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;em&gt;Smoking shall not be permitted in and no person shall smoke in a public place...in a place of employment...&lt;/em&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So if smoking is only banned in places defined as indoor places and indoor places are specifically defined as having a ceiling and at least two walls, than a sidewalk area (think The Local or Sally&#039;s near the U) is not indoors and smoking is not banned. But then I&#039;m not an attorney and they put in the patio language, so there must be more to it. Any attorney&#039;s on MNSpeak care to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/bin/bldbill.php?bill=S0238.4.html&amp;session=ls85&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;&gt;take a look&lt;/a&gt;? Or, kwatt, surely your caucus has attorneys you could ask.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can someone explain to me what&#8217;s the point of the patio provision? To explain my confusion, I give you the following definitions, straight from bill text:</p>
<p><em>Subd. 1a. Indoor area. &#8220;Indoor area&#8221; means all space between a floor and a ceiling that is bounded on two or more sides by walls&#8230;</p>
<p>Subd. 1b. Place of employment. &#8220;Place of employment&#8221; means any indoor area&#8230;</p>
<p>Subd. 2. Public place. &#8220;Public place&#8221; means any enclosed, indoor area used by the general public&#8230;</em></p>
<p>And smoking is prohibited in the following places:</p>
<p><em>Smoking shall not be permitted in and no person shall smoke in a public place&#8230;in a place of employment&#8230;</em></p>
<p>So if smoking is only banned in places defined as indoor places and indoor places are specifically defined as having a ceiling and at least two walls, than a sidewalk area (think The Local or Sally&#8217;s near the U) is not indoors and smoking is not banned. But then I&#8217;m not an attorney and they put in the patio language, so there must be more to it. Any attorney&#8217;s on MNSpeak care to <a href="http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/bin/bldbill.php?bill=S0238.4.html&#038;session=ls85" target="_blank">take a look</a>? Or, kwatt, surely your caucus has attorneys you could ask.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: wayne</title>
		<link>http://www.secretsofthecity.com/mnspeak/10229#comment-76618</link>
		<dc:creator>wayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2007 15:37:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-76618</guid>
		<description>I have no such thing!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have no such thing!</p>
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		<title>By: spaceman</title>
		<link>http://www.secretsofthecity.com/mnspeak/10229#comment-76616</link>
		<dc:creator>spaceman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2007 15:31:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-76616</guid>
		<description>nice unibrow wayne</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nice unibrow wayne</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: alamn</title>
		<link>http://www.secretsofthecity.com/mnspeak/10229#comment-76613</link>
		<dc:creator>alamn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2007 15:16:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-76613</guid>
		<description>Heh!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heh!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: wayne</title>
		<link>http://www.secretsofthecity.com/mnspeak/10229#comment-76611</link>
		<dc:creator>wayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2007 15:11:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-76611</guid>
		<description>no, I think zenrhino broke his hand ):</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>no, I think zenrhino broke his hand ):</p>
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