Secrets of the City

Actually, those two articles appear to be targeted toward the MNspeak.com crowd.

touche

I wondered about the D.A.R.E. thing when I first read it. As someone who has worked in the newsroom of one of the Twin Cities’ dailies for the past 13 years — and who knows several reporters at the other daily — I can honestly say that I have never, ever seen a reporter, editor, photographer, artist, news clerk or anyone else involved wearing a D.A.R.E. t-shirt.

But, hey, what do I know? I just work there.

And if the implication is that people who work at the dailies (or the TV stations) never smoke up… that is an incorrect assumption. Of course, I’m not talking about myself here. Seriously. I’m not.

I kinda like the line– even though it isn’t true. It’s a little funny. I dig the sarcastic tone in the massage story too.

Snark should always be in the service of truth.

I liked MNMonitor’s take on Hoffman’s first byline: “Dude, who bogarted journalism?” Makes me pine for ol’ Steve Perry.

The Derushinator and I go waaaay back, guys. We’re still having an affair.

I just think the DARE comment and Hoffman’s other writing just sound like something from a high school newspaper

How is this guy employed? Terrible work.

It appears that local stoners, deprived of their calming cannabis, are directing their fury at the man who bogarted their stash.

Holy shit. That’s awful writing. Someone is trying too hard.

in cleaveland it impressed people

No Buzz Beer for Hoffman.

is it too early to blame him for that dog-shit grocery story? doesn’t the editor choose the topics, or is that the publisher?

I thought the writer usually chooses a story and runs it by the editor. The publisher, if he or she has a problem with it, will intervene.

Editor chooses stories. Sometimes a publisher will suggest one.

So the writer has no say? That’s different from newspapers.

No, writers will suggest stories. But editors can veto them.

So at least there’s some dialogue between writer and editor. Good deal. I misread you.

the grocery store-y was pretty bad, yeah.

but then, who am I to talk?

When I was at City Pages, I pretty much chose my own stories, but they always had to be run through my editor first, and he would make the final decision. In my experience, that’s pretty common.

What you just described is how I imagined it as well. I thought you said that editors were the sole originators of stories. My bad, as they say.

miller, or anyone, in all seriousness, break it down for me: why is that sentence so “awful”? What would you write in its place?

I didn’t like the massage story; it just felt to me like Hoffman was trying too hard to be witty and snarky. I found the article’s hed/dek combo (especially “Statehouse continues its bold crusade against horny massage therapists”) insulting, considering my mom just got done with a two-year lawsuit against a masseuse who sexually assaulted her.

Is alliteration still big in Cleveland? Or didn’t they, um, “get the memo.”

Yeah, he’s trying too hard to be funny. But that makes me feel bad for the guy. There’s high expectations here. Minnesota has a lot of great writers. And coming here by way of new corporate owners made him a target before he typed a single word.

(Okay, that last sentence was probably equally as corny, but I couldn’t help it)

I found the article’s hed/dek combo (especially “Statehouse continues its bold crusade against horny massage therapists”) insulting, considering my mom just got done with a two-year lawsuit against a masseuse who sexually assaulted her.

imagine how insulted you’d feel if you had a child addicted to meth, only to find the city pages names it the city’s best “cheap thrill”.

i guess my point is you can’t really take that paper seriously. it’s one step above the onion.

I’d argue it’s one step below the onion.

You know what else totally sucks? Cheese. It’s one step above mold.

no, yogurt is one-step above mold

cheese is another step beyond yogurt with some different temperatures and pressures.

Vile calumny!

In reality, cheese is one step below milk.

I have always thought in the back of my mind: cheese and onions.

MN Speak is a few steps below a hangover.

N Speak is a few steps below a hangover.

I will agree wholeheartedly with this.

That does NOT sound like a “happy ending”.

Bud gives Maz a happy ending.

imagine how insulted you’d feel if you had a child that died in a car accident and City Pages called cars “a useful means of transportation”. Or maybe a more appropriate comparison: your uncle’s an alcholic, but City Pages notes that “getting drunk is fun sometimes”.

Not that meth is safer than cars, but there’s risk in everything. No doubt there are people that have gotten a “cheap thrill” off of meth and moved on without destroying their lives. City Pages isn’t trying to compete with the Strib, but I’d give it a solid two steps above the Onion. A lot of what they cover is simply completely different.

What the…?

As a former CP staff writer and total nerd who is always curious about the “most read articles” on the site, I noticed that the last two cover stories (edited by Kevin) were the most widely read cover stories this year.

Perhaps it was the content, or the headlines, or the illos, or the controversy, or the Fark-isization of the nation…I can’t say. But readers seemed to respond to those–whether positively or negatively–more than prior cover stories. Ok, discuss!

I’d say that’s another touché — regardless of the reason.

Molly, people love to hate. I think the grocery story had a wide appeal, so did the Maplewood story. Both were aimed at an audience that’s bigger than the typical alt-weekly downtowners. I like the casting of a wider net.

I loved the photos in the Beth Hawkins story, and Paul did a wonderful job with the Maplewood story. He and Beth are fabulous reporters and writers. I am guessing those stories were in the works before Kevin arrived. But I am just saying he certainly has generated quite a bit of interest, good or bad. And with staff writers like Beth, Paul, Jerry, Peter, Dara, Mike, Michael, etc., etc., there is no way CP could ever be one step above or below the Onion.

Yes. More stories to make smug suburban moderates feel hip and
cool and relavant.

Wider net indeed.

Wider net? It’s for the folks Downtown. Who cares about Maplewood?

MollyP, how do you know those two cover stories were the most widely read? I see the “Most Popular Articles” link, but that only measures article views during the past week, which naturally skews the numbers in favor of recent articles.

The Maplewood piece was a wonderfully reported story of gigantic egos, in-fighting, and suburban politics at its most inane and ridiculous. It had nothing to do with spotlighting suburban moderates.

Ummmm….because I am a nerd, and I check it every time, every issue. I am always curious about what gets read and linked. I know. Total nerd.

A wide net is fine, but when does an alt-weekly become simply a weekly?

Good question, gene. Anyone? By the way, I wanted to open up the discussion: Why do you think those were so widely read or discussed, dear MNSpeakians? Really. I am honestly curious.

I dunno. Why do so many people watch Fear Factor?

miller, or anyone, in all seriousness, break it down for me: why is that sentence so “awful”? What would you write in its place?

Actually  now that I read it again  the sentence is completely unnecessary. Pull it from the article and nothing changes. So, I wouldn’t put anything in its place.

I think it might be curiosity over what’s to come. The recent staff changes have been pretty high profile, and I think a lot of people are checking it out to how they impact the paper – for better or worse. I think the Maplewood piece just happened to be a good, well-done story, whereas the grocery piece was deliberately trolling for the lowest common denominator.

The blog Alt-Weekly Death Watch has a pretty caustic post about Hoffman.

CP has to pander to get the ad revenue… perhaps the stalwart urban liberal readership is sinking. Once they make the conversion, perhaps then they can be called a “Weekly.” This, of course, would suck terribly.

>A wide net is fine, but when does an alt-weekly become simply a weekly?

Typically, how mainstream a publication can be deduced using an inverse square of the number of front page images done using Illustrator or even by hand, the amount of swear words in the restaurant reviews, and how many vaguely unsalubrious backpage ads there are.

Circumstantial evidence also comes if the publication features one or more cartoons that are almost entirely incomprehensible and/or involve reproducing exactly the same panel over and over again.

Of course, the latter evidence might apply just as effectively to a publication such as the New Yorker, so it’s by no means a proof.

Hoff and I have something in common: We both took our honeymoons to San Francisco. Cute.

The Maplewood story had the kind of “what are they really like?” gossip that people love to watch about celebrities or someone viewed as having influence.

And MollyP — I agree that it’s just typical inane suburban politics. I used to cover a small suburban city council as a reporter, and it had the similiar cast of characters.

He might turn out to be an OK editor  probably too early to say at this point  but his writing based on these articles is flat-out terrible. The stories he chose are notable, maybe, in a heres a paragraph about a quirk-y local story way, but the writing style seems totally out of place in the City Pages.

Luckily, the alliteration (Smoky Saga, THC Treasure Trove, Calming Cannabis) was used tastefully

Longfeller: that was hilarious.

Anyways, the last two weeks of City Pages were crappy. Let’s just admit it. The grocery store story was juvenile and lacked any mention of co-ops, which is the only thing that would have made it even slightly interesting (even if you don’t like ‘em.) And the Maplewood story left too many obvious questions unanswered. I was bewildered when I finished reading it.

Christ.
What a great Polaroid crap-shot this is. Heres a guy going into work every day and trying to lead a group of writers to put something on paper. Something important, something that people will read, in a remarkably hostile environment. And heres a group of snippy little bitches, waiting to leap on any misstep, alliterative or otherwise. Hes from cleaveland. Hes going for the fark.com crowd. Fuck. Hes trying to get people to read something other than a Blue Man Group review
{ http://www.startribune.com/1526/story/1060376.html }.
And the supreme irony of it all is that this is all taking place in the realm of Bartel 2.0. The spawn of someone who supposedly had an interest in furthering some sort of dialog in this town. This joint deserves what comes next.

I reserve my right to point out that somebody’s bad at their job – even if they’re trying. Of course, I only went so far as to say the last two issues sucked – I’ll give the guy a little bit before I decide he does.

Kimi,

Which city?

Also, I hate to be a spelling anal-retentive, but it’s “Cleveland,” and not “Cleaveland.”

Yes…it is Cleveland. HELLO CLEVELAND!!!

From this week’s Letters to the Editor, on the subject of North Country Co-op:
I am surprised that you did not at least mention it in your article (”You Are Where You Eat,” 3/7/07). Or is this part of the new-look City Pages, moving even further from the real heart and soul of alternative Minneapolis?
Ding ding! Granted, co-ops may not be the heart and soul of Minneapolis (what is?), but it was an apparently deliberate oversight in the exclusion of co-ops in general, in the interest of pandering to the lowest common denominator. Are any CP staffers reading this who can put this suspicion to rest?

That second letter is funny. Is that guy an Mnspeaker? He should be.

What a great Polaroid crap-shot this is. Here’sa guy going into work every day and trying to lead a group of writers to put something on paper. Something important, something that people will read, in a remarkably hostile environment.

I hope you’re kidding. Douche “KD Lang” Hoffman’s first stories in town involve deriding our sensibilities and stereotyping. Great way to make a first impression. What a wretched crock.

Here’sa guy going into work every day and trying to lead a group of writers to put something on paper. Something important, something that people will read, in a remarkably hostile environment.
Something important? Really? It seems that’s trumped by focusing too hard on something that people will read. Maybe that has something to do with the hostile environment?

I need to start reading the CP Letters online more. Very entertaining. The daughter of the state rep. proposing massage therapy laws is a massage therapist. Oops.

Then there’s the person who didn’t read the article about grocery stores but really didn’t like the pictures so wrote in to complain.

Awesome.

acalhoun –

Lake Station, Indiana. A few steps below South St. Paul

A couple of clarifications of things posted here, since I know my brother doesn’t read this.

The editorial system at New Times does not involve the local publishers. Editors report only to corporate executive editors in other cities, not to the local publishers. If it had been Mark’s decision, I suspect he would have chosen someone else.

I think Matt was correct to point out Hoffman’s first two stories and let the discussion go. The guy is young and clearly feeling his way. However, most young reporters get to make their mistakes in obscurity at some small paper (like I did.) Hoffman’s on a big stage, and he’s got a very critical audience.

All that said, I find Hoffman’s first two efforts would probably come under the heading of “trying too hard.”

Finally, I’m reminded of the quote “You can pretend to be serious; you can’t pretend to be witty.” He’d be a lot better off establishing his position here by doing some solid reporting on his own than by a sophomoric rewriting of others’ work.

Kimi,

That’s none too far from East Chicago and Gary, right? Industrial haven.

TBar,

Just for my own benefit (and possibly other neophytes): I thought your bro sold off CP, but it appears he sold his stake and stayed on as publisher. Am I correct at all?

This link will answer everything.

A combo of Gandhi and Genghis Khan: Tom Bartel, circa 1993

my brother has never owned cp. he became publisher after Kris and I sold it.
this is me commenting. i cant login because my pda doesnt have one of the characters in my password.

I am Anna Nicole’s baby daddy. this is me commenting. i cant login because my pda doesnt have one of the characters in my password.

TBar,

I followed Dios’ link and read that old CP story on the history of the paper. You basically fulfilled the dream I had since I was 8 years old.. and you’re into Espane. Very cool.

The publisher of City Pages has no say over hiring an editor?

Really?

Espana… oops.

I hereby turn over control of MNspeak to Raindog66. This is me commenting; my pda suxxors.

Oh…and maz and bud jr are banned for life.

That is all.

Steve Perry in 1997: “BY NOW, IF you pay any attention at all to the dailies, you know that City Pages is being purchased by Stern Publishing, the New York-based media company that owns the Village Voice and the LA Weekly. The change looks to be about as bump-free as such things can be. Publishers Tom Bartel and Kris Henning will stay on to manage the paper, and the staff will remain in place … I think nearly everyone here mourns at some level the passing of CP’s days as a completely independent entity, but the mood here is good … Up until the Voice deal was announced last week, the only name bandied about much was that of the Phoenix-based New Times group, which has been rumored to be the main (if not the only) suitor for the Reader. For years it’s been no secret that New Times had its eye on Minneapolis … New Times has a reputation for sacking entire staffs, or close to it … On to the new era, then.”

That’s none too far from East Chicago and Gary, right? Industrial haven.

Exactly. Just downwind from Gary.

>Finally, I’m reminded of the quote “You can pretend to be serious; you can’t pretend to be witty.”

Shit. In that case, let me take this question seriously.

Personally, I’m well-disposed to the alternative press, particularly when free. If it’s good and free, so much the better. I moved here from CO where we had the fairly awesome and award-winning Westword, also published by New Times. They are not the kiss of death to a good freesheet.

I venture to suggest that, as in any other venture when a new person takes over, it is sensible to wait a while longer to get a sense of how it is being changed. I know ‘wait and see’ is the daringly provocative counter view but, yeah, I went there. And I’d do it again too.

Molly, getting back to your question, why do you think the stories were so highly read? And as a relative insider, do you sense a change in strategy with the new management? What impact do you think this will have on the content? Seriously, I’d love to hear what you think.

“I noticed that the last two cover stories (edited by Kevin) were the most widely read cover stories this year.“

A huge percentage of the present readers of CP currently write for the other dailies/weeklies/whenerverlies and Kevin is the New Target.

“Paul did a wonderful job with the Maplewood story.“

A wonderful job of . . . what? Sitting next to someone he likes and helping them make fun of someone they hate, in our presence? Sure. Educating us on what’s going on in MW city government? Not hardly.

The two sides in MW each have some legitimate, defensible arguments, as well as loony-tune partisan screechings. You’d not know that via CP, sadly, because they didn’t write about it.

If you sit down with both sides, one at a time, and ask them to share with you all the weirdness and idiocy of the other side, it’d probably make for a good, entertaining, informative story. CP just skipped half.

Not arguing about which side is weirder – I’d probably agree with the CP conclusion – but if they’re too closed-minded to even try to communicate both sides’ positions, why bother? At the end of the story, I knew nothing new about MW, but quite a bit about CP.

Bobby, you have any idea how a newspaper — daily, alt weekly, whatever — really works?

Do you have any idea how any media operates?

I didn’t think so.

“I think Matt was correct to point out Hoffman’s first two stories and let the discussion go. The guy is young and clearly feeling his way. However, most young reporters get to make their mistakes in obscurity at some small paper (like I did.) Hoffman’s on a big stage, and he’s got a very critical audience.”

I think the same can be said for your son. Whether you think he’s a bum or Hemingway, Kevin’s in the position he’s in based on merit not because his daddy bought him the company. And last time I checked Cleveland is a bit bigger than Eden Prairie.

Whether you think he’s a bum or Hemingway, Kevin’s in the position he’s in based on merit not because his daddy bought him the company. And last time I checked Cleveland is a bit bigger than Eden Prairie.

not gonna agree or disagree regarding matt, but the “merit” to which you allude is no more than Hoffman’s willingness to suck the teat of New Times and march in lock-step to their agenda, and not some high journalistic standard.

And Alt-Media deathwatch calling Hoffman “lesbian marriage pioneer”…ROTFL

“Bobby, you have any idea how a newspaper — daily, alt weekly, whatever — really works?

I didn’t think so.“

I could take you seriously had you said “Bobby, your comment indicates that you have no idea how any medium operates”, and then gone on to educate me. As it stands, you’ve thrown out a snide, content-less piece of snark.

Just like CP.

So your answer is “no” then?