Secrets of the City

They really need to make bullet proof vests cheaper and bullets more expensive.

It’s warmer. Thugs like the warm weather.

There’d be a lot less shootings if bullets cost like $15,000.

Blessed be Chris Rock.

All kidding aside, this bothers the shit out of me. It’s not only a bad representation of Mpls to those outside the city who will decide to drive into town instead of taking transit, but it takes so much away from the experience of living in a great city such as this. Who’s going to be thinking about walking the lakes or hitting up your favorite theatre or bar when there’s someone waiting to take your money or even kill you?

Plus, it only reinforces the idea that the city leaders don’t give a fuck about North.

Sorry, rambling. This just pisses me off. I hate going downtown anymore.

If bullets were $15,000 they would just steal them as they do with the guns. How many of these thugs play by the book and take the gun safety class, get the permit etc? My guess is none.

The police make arrests and then these thugs just get back on the street. The rewards of crime have a much bigger payoff compared to the small consequences. What pisses me off are people that claim most of these criminals are victims….BULLSHIT….I grew up poor and underprivelaged and I don’t run around mugging people, , breaking into houses and cars, selling crack and shooting people. I agree with Don Samuels. People need to take responsibility.

You’re forgetting about the big picture. The circus animals will be fine.

In all seriousness, this is very sad. I’m disappointed as a bus rider and as a resident. It’s hard for me to convince people that living at Lake/Chicago isn’t a death wish when s*** like this keeps happening.

I agree with Don Samuels.

uh oh. You don’t wanna be saying stuff like that around here Rebecca. Cuz you know, people around here don’t think Samuels is black enough or something.

HEEE HEEEE. I guess Tyra Banks isn’t either. Or Halle Barry.

I was trying to get some suburban folks to go check out the Midtown Global Market, but when they heard it was near Lake-Chicago they vehemently opposed making the trip.

“I was trying to get some suburban folks to go check out the Midtown Global Market, but when they heard it was near Lake-Chicago they vehemently opposed making the trip.“

The perception of the area, and of any transit that runs through the area, by people who don’t go there much isn’t good at all, and it’s getting worse. Three friends of my wife hit DT and the Dome for some event and then dinner a few weeks ago. They parked at the MOA and rode the train in. Both ways, groups of 6-10 upper-teenage boys surrounded them and were pretty abusive and assholic the whole way, verbally and physically, and I guess the other passengers made a real effort to stare out the windows and pretend nothing was happening. One of the friends called (whoever it is that manages the trains) the next day, and the response was, in her words, “Toughen up! Shit happens! You must be racist!”

I took seven fifthgraders into DT in January for an event and food. In the City Center, four large “youths” knocked two of the kids down and told them to get their white asses out of the way, and two other kids got grabbed in the bathroom and smacked and lost their money.

I still hit DT, but then I’m large and obnoxious and can protect myself. I won’t take kids anymore, and you can bet my wife’s friends (or anyone else to whom they speak) won’t be back. Why put up with the hassle?

this suburban person went to MGM on Saturday, and was thoroughly underwhelmed, if that’s a word.

Both ways, groups of 6-10 upper-teenage boys surrounded them and were pretty abusive and assholic the whole way, verbally and physically,

Sounds like they should have called 911 on the spot.

I’m large and obnoxious too (allegedly). Maybe me and you should go down there and kick some ass, bobby.

Told ‘em that. None had cell phones, all were too intimidated to move. I was amazed they took the train back after the ride in.

I can just see it in Monday’s Strib, “Two Large Middle-Aged Conservative Vigilantes Shot in City Center”

“I’m large and obnoxious too (allegedly). Maybe me and you should go down there and kick some ass, bobby.“

I think what’s eventually going to clean up the buses and trains, at least, will be when groups of non-thug guys (people?) decide, as an affirmative act, to take ownership of transit back from the thugs by regularly riding together and creating a climate that discourages thuggery. Not vigilantism, which involves adjudging guilt and imposing punishment, but revocation of the tacit permission that the thugs seem to think they have to control those environments, by being in a powerful enough position to get back in the thugs’ faces.

I can’t decide which incident during my Timberwolves-Pacers stint at Block E was most uplifting.

Was it the incident on the way to the game when several aspiring inmates spread across the sidewalk (true to form), bumped in to my girlfriend, and joked to themselves, “Watch out for the white people.”

Or was it the post-game incident when we were waiting for the bus and saw a security guard escorting a woman around the building, all the while tailed by three men whispering to each other, “Hey man, he groped her. He can’t do that.”

Or was it the hope of a brighter future that comes from seeing several strollers amidst the cries of “you thick” and “check out that ass”.

Yeah, nothing wrong with that culture. Nothing at all. When those babies in the stroller grow up to posture on the Block E sidewalk and later find themselves in the confines of Oak Park Heights, just remember it’s the poverty — not the parenting or even the silence of the liberal aplogists — that sealed their fate.

Didn’t that get a guy shot last week.

I think what’s eventually going to clean up the buses and trains, at least, will be when groups of non-thug guys (people?) decide, as an affirmative act, to take ownership of transit back from the thugs by regularly riding together and creating a climate that discourages thuggery.

I sure hope so. If the powers won’t do it, then the people must. I always want to resort to throwing these thugs into a dungeon underground, but your idea Bobby is a lot smarter.

Well, he was doing it alone. That’s not smart.

I ride the LRT four times a week. Most the time it’s cool, no problems (aside from rampant cell phone yakking). But there have been a couple of occasions where loud, aggressive “young people” have seriously needed to be told to straighten up and act like somebody. I usually give them the quelling eye (and I know it’s a good eye) but alas, I usually stand alone in even that small display of public disapproval, since fellow passengers studiously ignore them.

Each train and bus should come equipped with a large, stern grandma brandishing an smackdown umbrella. No one wants to mess with that kind of grandma.

Are there actual liberals that think it’s ok for baby mama’s and thuggery?

I thought the liberals were all for abortion. Which is it?

tate, you’re an obvious racist to imply that that culture is anything other than beautiful and perfect. you’re prolly some type of nazi, as well.

I think the latter.

Are there actual liberals that think it’s ok for baby mama’s and thuggery?

i think constantly making excuses for the behavior is a way of ok’ing it.

It’s not a race issue. It’s thugs of any color that destroy the fabric of “place.” They need to be stopped.

decide, as an affirmative act, to take ownership of transit back

agreed.

plus there should be a lot more security on board and I would be happy to pay more taxes to see it happen. There are tons of cops around the subways in NYC.

Was it the incident on the way to the game when several aspiring inmates spread across the sidewalk (true to form), bumped in to my girlfriend, and joked to themselves, “Watch out for the white people.”

Assholes, leaving aside your commentary. I’m curious what you did about it at the time. I’m guessing nothing and that’s what inspired your post.

Or was it the post-game incident when we were waiting for the bus and saw a security guard escorting a woman around the building, all the while tailed by three men whispering to each other, “Hey man, he groped her. He can’t do that.”

I don’t get your point here, but maybe it’s because you didn’t identify the races of the people involved. Or is it that security officers would never grope and should never be questioned or watched?

Or was it the hope of a brighter future that comes from seeing several strollers amidst the cries of “you thick” and “check out that ass”.

Because we know white guys with kids would never comment on a woman’s ass, right?

What I would like to know is WHY HAS NOBODY BEEN ARRESTED FOR THE BUS SHOOTING????

The article says there were like 50 people on the bus.

Fifty witnesses, ffs!

There are tons of cops around the subways in NYC.

And some peope call (President) Giuliani a fascist for his clean up of NYC, which included overwhelming street cop force.

The guy who got shot on the bus evidently WAS trying to “take ownership of transit back,” but like the guy over south who was killed trying to help those two women, no one backed him up.

This disgusts and depresses me.

What are you talking about, ranty?

Well shit, I hadn’t seen that article yet!

Thanks Max.

Evidently I need to start reading the PiPress.

Whatever.

I’m still pissed off.

“WHY HAS NOBODY BEEN ARRESTED FOR THE BUS SHOOTING????“

Get a little perspective in youir life, okay? There are people getting hurt out there, and I assume that gets the cops’ attention just a bit more than somebody shooting a damn bus.

hardy-har.

Back to work now… (where’s my pistol?)

Chicks with guns. mmmm.

The #10 bus incident is interesting.

I wonder why a 60 year old man was arguing with a bus driver. In my experience the only people I have ever seen arguing with a bus driver are typically demanding /begging for a transfer when they don’t even have money for the fare.

This doesn’t excuse the other guy from pushing him off the bus, but we only have a small portion of this story.

I was a season ticket holder for the Timberwolves for 5 years and I have never once experienced what bobby_b experienced leaving a game and walking the 6 or 7 blocks to my car. I’m not a big obnoxious guy either.

The perception that DT is this fetid dangerous area is so grossly overplayed by those that don’t work and frequent the area that it’s laughable.

I also find it interesting that I was somewhat chastized by bobby_b on the other “North Minneapolis” thread for doing the same thing in my neighborhood that he’s suggesting people do on the buses.

I live five blocks from the dome and have never experience what bobby is talking about either. But, then, I steer the fuck away from that place when there’s a game.

“I also find it interesting that I was somewhat chastized by bobby_b on the other “North Minneapolis” thread for doing the same thing in my neighborhood that he’s suggesting people do on the buses.“

Uh, no. I said there that the apparent acceptance of a life surrounded by the dangers being discussed as simply being the price one pays for an interesting lifestyle seemed unacceptable to me. Here, I’m saying that if people view thuggery as being unacceptable, there is something you can do about it.

Had you been extolling Mad Dads on that other thread, I’d have been agreeing with you. You (I think it was you – or not) instead spoke about not looking all victimmy as a good defense.

Yes, that’s a new word.

I live just off First Avenue, and my experiences on T-wolves game nights involve people who ignore pedestrians as they try to turn right on red off the downtown exits from 394 or 94, huge vehicles taking up more than one space in the parking ramp I use, and drivers who don’t understand the concept of not blocking the intersection when traffic starts to back up.

I think we should reform the city government in Minneapolis by switching to a “strong-mayor” system. Then perhaps we could get someone with some balls into office and perhaps start attacking crime a la Guiliani. Of course that would mean Minneapolis would have to elect someone with a little more efficacy than RT.

Sigh….

I’ve lived in Downtown for a year and never experienced any problems except the constant beggars. I walked from the U to Loring Park at 2am after parties, took the 16 at 4 am and did various other things like that. Went around hennepin and downtown constantly.

Never had any problems. How is it that these people are getting so harassed? Is there something particular about them? Do people from the suburbs wear a scarlet letter on them? Really don’t understand this.

Minneapolis is not dangerous. I feel perfectly safe in every part of the city and walk around at any time of night. Sure there is crime but statistically my chances of being involved are low.

I did the same in NYC for six months and never had a problem.

I guess I should rephrase. It’s not that I’m afraid to go anywhere, per se. More appropriately, I hate the hassle of dealing with teenage punks who are so insecure they can’t deal with someone looking at them randomly. Just the presence of thuggish folk can have an effect on daily life, on business, etc.

They are all kurcho, Vlad.

“I live five blocks from the dome and have never experience what bobby is talking about either. But, then, I steer the fuck away from that place when there’s a game.“

Two points: First, the implication is that there are areas you know to avoid, and I’m sure that knowledge comes when you’re a FT resident, but was it naive of me to expect that the train from the Mall, and the City Center, should have been avoided?

Second, I guess my disconnect comes from finding that people accept the thuggery as simply being part of life. I don’t see why it has to be. It’s not “being poor” that enables people to be thugs, it’s more the simple acceptance that “some people are just gonna be that way.” Where I grew up, “poor” was the standard, there were no jobs for the adults, and the guys in the neighborhood would regularly hitch out to the piers and fish for twenty hours and bring back a mess of barracuda, and then the whole neighborhood would eat fish tacos for every meal. (My mom’s joke was that we only ate fish tacos on days that end with the letter “y”.) But there was no theft, there were no assaults or fights or . . . whatever. There was an expectation throughout the community that you acted with honor, and that you respect everyone else. I don’t see that in the discussions about Mpls.

Maybe these suburbanites need to take maz’s advice form the other day: suck it up, and don’t be such wusses.

I go downtown a bit too, and have never been hassled (Block E, no less, as that’s one of the few theaters I can go to see a movie). On the rare times I’m even approached by someone with their handout, I just shake my head and move on.

I don’t know where anybody got the idea that liberals are tolerant of thugs. Bop ‘em on the head, sez I.

“I go downtown a bit too, and have never been hassled . . .“

Me, neither. The assholes instead go after the sub-5′5″ women, and the little kids.

If “suck it up” really is the city’s response, then there should be no complaining as more and more of us wussies simply stay away. But I keep hearing that you need my money . . .

You know how there are Latin phrases that describe fallacious reasoning and rhetoric (e.g., ad hominem and ad populum). This board is exemplifying a new form of fallacious reasoning (known as ad res metropol) whereby people refute specific evidence by claiming , I live downtown and never experience anything like that.

Well, I too offer my experience as a Minneapolis resident who worked downtown from 2000 to 2006, continues to switch buses at Block E on a daily basis, and regularly ventures downtown for sporting events and other forms of entertainment.

Admittedly, the perception of danger may outweigh the actual occurrence of violent crime, but the source of that misperception is the omnipresent cloud of thuggery and intimidation that surrounds Block E and the adjoining area. In my world, these sidewalks are a conduit. In their world, the sidewalks are an open air market for illegal drugs, a promenade for intolerable forms of misogyny, and a stage for disheartening acts of intimidation and violence.

If this anti-intellectual, soul-starving mayhem meets your expectations of a city, then please enjoy. Meanwhile, Plato, Lewis Mumford, and I will continue to dream of the city as a place where dreams and ideas come to life and dispel the danger of the wilderness.

I think the perception that liberals tolerate the thuggery is that any attempt to clean it up in this city has liberal groups crying about racism and/or tolerance of the poor. It is easy to say on this board to bop them on the head or get rid of them. It is quite another when actually trying to get rid of them because the majority of thugs are minorities, so racism cries get in the way. The same with the bums, though the majority of them are not minorities, the cry of tolerance and equal rights gets in the way of cleaning them up.

I like your Latin, tate, but making cases based on anecdotal personal experiences is hardly a new fallacy.

people around here don’t think Samuels is black enough or something.

black people always complain that dissenting black people aren’t black enough. Not all black people complain but its common for black people dissenting to be referred to as “not black enough”. Or something.

My wife and I have lived and worked downtown (essentially) for 6 years. We go to T-Wolves games, we go to clubs/venues, we go out to eat downtown (when it’s too cold to walk over the bridge, we take the 4, 6, or 61). We walk through the skyways, we walk down Hennepin and Nicollet at night, we walk through Block E.

I will not say I’ve not heard inappropriate comments in 6 years, or that we’ve not noticed people who looked as though they were on the make, however…we’ve minded our own business and made our way to our destination unscathed. I’ve never been fearful of a confrontation. Last night we walked home from the central library as we do most Tuesday nights, no issues. Would I want my wife walking home alone? Probably not, but that’s my point. Not making eye-contact with loitering idiots, not acknowledging their poorly-formed cat-calls, and not putting ourselves in any of these places without being aware of our surroundings or too drunk to be able to do so, has worked quite will in avoiding confrontations.

Half the crap I’ve seen downtown (fights) has been drunk guy on drunk guy BS. Is it all this? No, but I welcome you to look at the BAC of some of the victims/assailants in recent attacks.

I don’t know if I’d go so far as to say that Minneapolis is “perfectly safe” but in the almost 6 years I’ve lived here I really haven’t had any significant problems. Still, some bad sh*t does take place on Hennepin. I’ve seen blatant drug deals, an attempted shooting, and people getting roughed up. My advice for people who aren’t familiar with downtown: don’t look like a tourist (ie-gawking at the tall buildings, pointing everywhere, etc.). That probably attracts unsavory types.

Aw, bullshit. That’s a common charge against liberals, but it’s from the “conservatives are hard on crime, liberals are too mushy and bleeding hearted to do anything about it.”

If the case you’re making is that liberals have opposed things like randomly stopping black people in their cars, however, you’re right. Hard on crime should not mean soft on racism.

Msparber – the problem is that anything done to clean these people up ends up targeting a higher number of minorities, so the liberals end up calling it racist.

I think the perception that liberals tolerate the thuggery is that any attempt to clean it up in this city has liberal groups crying about racism and/or tolerance of the poor.

That’s why you need a republican mayor if you’re serious about fighting city crime. When the press and their liberal constituents start yelling “racist,” the republican just laughs and continues doing what he’s doing. A liberal democrat mayor can, and usually is, intimidated by such language or even threats of such language and consequently don’t do what needs to be done. Being a conservtive mean never having to say you’re sorry. heh

If the case you’re making is that liberals have opposed things like randomly stopping black people in their cars, however, you’re right. Hard on crime should not mean soft on racism.

Agreed.

Sorry, this is off topic but I need a ruling from the honorable MNspeak grammar nazi (that’s you Max) on something – is “prolly” an acceptable substitite for probably?

Every time I see that word it moves be a little bit closer to the edge of sanity

Being a conservtive mean never having to say you’re sorry.

…for being racist?

For being politically incorrect.

Not making eye-contact with loitering idiots, not acknowledging their poorly-formed cat-calls, and not putting ourselves in any of these places without being aware of our surroundings or too drunk to be able to do so, has worked quite will in avoiding confrontations.

Good god, pal. This is not the city I grew up in. And I grew up in the “bad” neighborhoods.

It also means never admitting you’re totally fucking crazy.

I’m all for prolly, by the way. But it’s prolly cause I’m so hungy.

Then you are old and I cannot help you with that. White flight left many neighborhood’s in worse shape. Might I add that in 6 years, we’ve never felt violated or unsafe.

I make no intimation that this is the only way to handle yourself, however growing up in a city far more crime-filled and dangerous than this one, you get this lesson pretty early on for field trips and jaunts into the city. Not acknowledging an idiot trying to cause a reation works. It works downtown, it works in Apple Valley.

“is “prolly” an acceptable substitite for probably?”

Fly word, innit?

David F – I have lived in Minneapolis (UofM area, uptown, stevens square area) since 1997. I too frequent downtown and uptown all the time with my fiance, we will walk DT or uptown if it is nice or take a cab if it isn’t. I disagree though that we should have to tolerate a harrassing element and that we should have to go out of our way to avoid eye contact, or to walk around one street because there is a group of thugs etc. I have no problem with an occasional begger, that is part of living in a city. However having to alter my behavior to such a degree as the thugs neccesistate is wrong. However rather than deal with this our city council and mayor would rather bitch about our governor, the circus, and being green.

It’s pretty good advice at a bar too, David.

Indeed. Especially if the jackass giving the eye is wearing a backwards white hat and the same haircut as his 8 buddies.

I will admit to getting in a couple fights while living here, I was drunk and all were with drunk Abercrombie Boys with big mouths and glass jaws.

Fly word, innit?

I’m not sure why but every time I see that word I want to shoot somebody…

What would John Wayne do? Look the other way?

John Wayne wouldn’t bring his fists to a gun fight. He also would shoot a dude for telling his wife she had a nice ass. You touch her, that’s another story.

You have to pick your fights or you end of fighting everyone and spreading yourself too thin, or just coming off as an idiot who’s never heard the term, “water off a ducks back.”

That’s right, Tublecane.

Minneapolis can’t be a green city if it’s streets are covered in blood.

the problem is that anything done to clean these people up ends up targeting a higher number of minorities, so the liberals end up calling it racist.

No, I think that it starts being racist when regular black people who aren’t being thuggish start getting hassled by authorities but white people doing the same thing that the non-thuggish black person is doing are left alone. I don’t care what 5-0 does to truly thuggish black people or thuggish white people, I do care when shit goes down where people I know are hassled for WWB, Walking While Black.

tublecane – then go down there and shoot all the “thugs”. There are more reasons for there even being “thugs” than either of us can solve, and confronting one changes nothing. Even if you killed them all, there would be more here tomorrow unless the reason they are there in the first place changes. Figure out how to do that, and I’ll vote for you.

The assholes instead go after the sub-5′5″ women, and the little kids.

I’m a sub-5′5″ woman, and beyond the general catcalling I’ve learned to live with (someday everything will sink down to my knees and I’ll miss these days), I’ve never felt unsafe in Minneapolis, and I don’t feel like assholes “go after” me. But then again, I’m not roaming around alone, late at night, drunk, wearing miniskirts and low cut tops with no coats in December like some of the geniuses you see out pouring out of Brothers. You’re never 100% safe 100% of the time, no matter where you are…you just have to be smart so you’re as safe as you can be.

He also wouldn’t shoot a dude for telling his wife she had a nice ass.

On the bright side, the thug element surrounding Block E has a new appreciation for Chamber Music thanks to the singing rocks out front. Perhaps they’ll start hanging out around Orchestra Hall, and all of us “non-thugs” will be free to eat riblets from Applebees!

Mayor Rybak should enlist David “Fists of Fury” Foureyes’ help on the new Block E Marketing campaign: “You have nothing to fear but fear itself . . . . unless you’re from out of town, an unchaperoned female, under 18, or drunk.” Of course, the caveat will be in fine print.

By the way, walking from the library to near northeast doesn’t bring you through the troubling areas. In fact, the library is an excellent place to avoid the Block E gangsters.

What would John Wayne do? Look the other way?

That’s exactly what he did. I have heard from a variety of sources that Mr. Wayne was frequently challenged, hastled and pestered by drunks, nutjobs and thugs who saw picking a fight with John Wayne as the ultimate way to be known as a “tough guy.”

Wayne ignored them.

Unlike maz, Wayne also never served in the military, although many others in Hollywood (including director John Ford) did. Too old? Nope. Clark Cable was much older, and he went in as an enlisted gunner in the air corps. Kids? A lot of GIs had kids. A lot never came home to see them.

John Wayne was just an actor, not a hero. Bad choice.

David F – I never said we should shoot them all or that I or any other citizen should confront them. That is a job for the Bixby’s 5-0. I don’t agree with non-thuggish black, white, asian or whatever getting harrased for nothing either. However if I was to get harrased by a cop for looking like I was loitering or some such thing I’d welcome that much more than being harrassed by a thug. I’d put up with some cases of percieved and hyped ‘WWB’ if it got rid of the thugs. Look at it this way Bixby – the people you know could 1) get harrassed by thugs and bums, our current situation or 2) POSSIBLY get harrassed by a cop for walking/standing/loitering when they weren’t doing anything wrong. Of the two I think option 2 is a no brainer. Unfortunately there are no Minneapolis Rudy G’s around, or more accurately none have a shot of getting elected in Minneapolis.

You mean “gangstas”.

I thought Block E was a bad idea from the begining. What reason would anyone have to go there? Am I wrong that it’s full of loitering jackasses and drunks? I know this argument has been had before…but bulldoze the stupid thing and turn it back into a parking lot full of Phish fans waiting to get a free ticket from the philanthropic trustifarian whose buddy is in a k-hole in daddy’s Range Rover (which is why he has a ticket to trade for mushrooms in the first place). At least the must dangerous piece of hardware you could surmise they were carrying was the carabiner holding their nalgene bottle to the pants their girlfriend “Free” (Brooke) made for them.

Honestly, in some cases I’d feel better about being hassled by the thugs. It’s also a situation of POSSIBLY being hassled by the thugs. I really don’t have the energy to get into what happened to the person I know but he wasn’t loitering and it wasn’t just a “move along, son” situation by the police. Additionally, being harassed by the police seems not to be a big deal. But for a black person in America, it is a big deal and is a horrible feeling.

David F – There are more reasons to go to block e than the central library. Apparantly though some of them (drinking) you seem to have a problem with. You might notice bars/clubs do bring money in for a downtown area. Also it might be nice for city residents to have a decent retail and entertainment destination, for movies etc. However since there are so many thugs there I’ll hop in my car and go on a drive to the nearest suburban mega theater/shopping mall complex rather than go to block E anymore. Imagine a Best Buy where Borders is and a theater you felt safe going to, and Block E really isn’t that bad an idea (though the execution was bad…i can’t argue that). Judging by how many friends won’t go see a movie there because of the thugs, I know there has to be a good businnes that could be had there if the city would clean it up.

“I thought Block E was a bad idea from the begining. What reason would anyone have to go there?”

It’s one of the only movie theaters in the entire metro that the deaf/HOH can go to see movies. I’m not about to drive all the way down to Eden Prairie Place to see one. That’s plenty of reason for me.

And no, Block E is not merely full of loitering jackasses and drunks.

Bixby – it seems to me you are letting one incident cloud your judgements. To say getting harrassed by the thugs would be preferable proves it. Your changes of a serious altrication with the thugs are so much higher than with police. If your friend had such a bad experience I’m sorry, and it may very well have been wrong. However there is no way the instances are as high as the harrassment by the thugs. Both need to be dealt with, but the thug situation is much more prevalent.

I have a drinking problem. Kudos doctor, you’re an idiot.

And drinking…at Block E. You must have a hard time deciding between what…Hooters or Applebees? If the establishments in Block E strike you as interesting places to imbibe, you should try Ruby Tuesdays! They have a margarita they serve in a fishbowl! Isn’t that a gas! A fishbowl! Can you believe it!?

Someone else has made this point, but no one is going to drive into the city to pay to park then eat at the same restaurants and watch the same movies they can see in Eden Prairie. No one was ever going to do this, even if everyone that works in Block E didn;t act as though they were being put upon every time I expect them to do their job…like sell me a movie ticket. And those of us the live here have better places to eat and movie theaters in our neighborhoods. You live in the city, you know this.

mnblrmkr – Actually the deaf may be in the best position to enjoy a movie at block e…idiots bringing in their babies, yapping on their cell phones, or yapping to their friends (which happens at all theaters but much higher occurance at block e) ruins it for anyone that can hear…

To be honest, as a HOH person, I’m much more worried about getting thumped by the cops DT, for not obeying an order that I didn’t hear, than I am about any of the people hanging around on the street.

No, I am not letting one incident cloud my judgment. I am letting a ton of incidents cloud my judgment. You’re making it out to seem like the thugs are always doing things besides saying harassing things, however, the majority of the time, they’re just being assholes. This is not to say that the thugs don’t need to be dealt with, I’m just saying that why people consider some crackdowns racist is more nuanced than, “those liberals hate the unPC”. Furthermore, I don’t think that heavy crime crackdowns and non-racist crackdowns are mutually exclusive.

Mnblrmkr- I’d rather drive to a suburb to go see a movie than pay for the insane parking at Block E. I’m never *just* going to see a movie. There needs to be a crackdown on the parking fees there.

And some peope call (President) Giuliani a fascist for his clean up of NYC

didn’t he marry and sleep with his cousin?

>.>

“but no one is going to drive into the city to pay to park then eat at the same restaurants and watch the same movies they can see in Eden Prairie.”

…except disabled people.

Fixed.

Figure out how to do that, and I’ll vote for you.

Blow up the bus station.

David F – Oh I agree the drinking places there suck (well the piano bar isn’t that appalling, but I still don’t go there). However not everyone has the same high standards. As for driving a lot of downtown residents don’t have to, and if you do parking is only $1 if you go to the movie. I’m not saying it is the greatest place, especially how it has turned out, but to say it was a horrible idea from the start and that there is no reason to go there is wrong. If you cleared out the thugs I would frequent it once in awhile and the movie theater option is something nice for city residents. I have a better theater in my living room than the rest of the Minneapolis theaters so they really aren’t an option.

Take the train, Bixby. Or the bus.

Fair enough…now, I have to go to the gym as my fists don’t stay furious through my transparent alcoholism alone.

Uh, yeah Bixby, take the #5 from NoMpls to Downtown for your next block E movie.

Mm-hmm…

“Mnblrmkr- I’d rather drive to a suburb to go see a movie than pay for the insane parking at Block E. “

That’s not an option when the movie you want to see isn’t playing in Rearview at Eden Prairie.

It’s not like we can simply go to the nearest megaplex to see any movie we want, whenever we want. We have a total of four screens in the entire metro that have Rearview. Two of them at Block E, and one each at Eden Prairie and Rosedale. (actually, 5 if you count the Science Museum IMax). ANd generally, they only have the Rearview copy for a week or less, so we also have a very narrow window.

As for parking, I usually park over near Theater De Le Jeune or so, or on the other side of Marquete, and walk to Block E.

The 5 takes way too long from my house. I don’t know what the number of the bus I take any more is but if I weren’t driving I’d normally take the express, which unfortunately only runs during the week.

Additionally, I wouldn’t take the bus at night because it’s a bit of a walk from my house to the bus stop and I live in a pretty quite neighborhood, so I’d rather not make this walk alone. And no, this has nothing to do with living in North Minneapolis, I’d feel the same way if I lived anywhere else in the Twin Cities.

*pretty quiet

What’s Rearview?

just for the record, none of the incidents in my original post ocurred in or around Block E. furthermore, of all the murders in Minneapolis since Block E was built in its current form (300+), exactly ZERO occurred in Block E (the infamous shooting last summer was technically across the street in the Glueck’s parking lot). Our hotel, in Block E, has over 100,000 guests annually with essentially zero instances of violence. I’ve been parking in Block E day & night 5x a week for 3 years and no one has so much has made a Yo-Mama remark in my direction. I don’t know what any of this one-man empirical evidence means , but my point is that the Block E maruading gangs of black teenagers BS is totally overblown.

Oops. I meant Rear Window. It’s a closed captioning system for movie theaters.

Block E might not be the haven for violence that the suburban hand wringers want you to believe, but it IS just a gawd awful idea. When I had season tickets for the Wolves I made a point to never step into the place. Not because of violence (it looks perfectly mall-ish to me from the exterior), but because of repugnant choice of chain establishments slinging Sysco and novelties rather than a quality meal of a decent beer. There are SOOOOO many other options to eat and imbibe in Minneapolis, establishments that aren’t actually funneling your hard earned dollar out of the state.

Furthermore, the only violence I’ve ever encountered came from “frat row”, the part of 1st ave where after two o’clock it’s Ok to take your shirt off, piss yourself and roam in the middle of the streets beating your chest like a friggin’ mouth breather. My girlfriend waitressed at Gluek’s for a time (terrible mistake), so yes I’ve had to unfortunately spend some time amongst the white hats.

As for the “why would suburbanites want to come to Block E when they can get the same food in the burbs” question? Isn’t that the only fare those type of people are brave enough to eat?

BTW, this is Casey. I just registered.

Liberal apologists are to blame for the bus violence, Block E pathology, and so much, much more.

Giulani in ‘08!

Clean up downtown!

Close the borders!

OK bud, let’s compromise. Let’s close the borders as soon as we’re completely self-sustaining and our existance doesn’t depend on raping third world countries.

as soon as we’re completely self-sustaining and our existance doesn’t depend on raping third world countries

Rape victims never had it so good. We actually pay them for their trouble. Imagine that?

“OK bud, let’s compromise. Let’s close the borders as soon as we’re completely self-sustaining and our existance doesn’t depend on raping third world countries.“

Damn. Don’t we just effin’ suck!? Ain’t we just a net load on the whole world!? If we weren’t such total wads, the world could be half german and half japanese, Sadaam could still be running those Kuwaiti AIDs clinics he was famous for, all those pesky medical and scientific advancements and discoveries wouldn’t be jamming up the patent systems and there’d still be the low-hanging fruit for today’s “scientists” to figure out, and overpopulation in the marginal areas of the world wouldn’t be a problem at all!

I say we move out of the country in abject shame!

You first.

Yeah. When I rape a chick, I toss $5 at her, so what the fuck is she complaining about?

Uh, Sparbs, you’re gay, remember?

jeffk – Proud Liberal Apologist Since 1986

There’s a too-easy joke laying here involving dollars per inch, and “who got screwed”, but sometimes you just need to walk on by . .

jeffk – Hating America (as substitute for odd homosexual urges) Since 1987

Why is it that every conversation here devolves into a Bud Jr./Maz overcompensation fest with bobby_b riding the cusp of some kind of quasi intellectual moral high ground?

Back to the original points.

Yes, attention needs to paid to North Minneapolis to curb gang on gang violence that creates the illusion of lawlessness.

North Minneapolis is not a terrible place to live. In fact, I enjoy a lot of it.

Yes, Block E should be burned to the ground.

Not because of the illusion of said violence, but because of the horrific corporate whoring that has helped “Denverize” our fare city.

Yes, Minneapolis is a great and safe city in general.

With a little work it could be even better.

I’m trying to do my part. Sans a .45 strapped to my waist. I know, amazing isn’t it?

Why is it that every conversation here devolves into a Bud Jr./Maz overcompensation fest with bobby_b riding the cusp of some kind of quasi intellectual moral high ground?

Because.

Not really.

“with bobby_b riding the cusp of some kind of quasi intellectual moral high ground?“

I haven’t aspired to “intellect” since I gave up trying to impress college women. Granted, that was this past Monday, but still, I’ve given it up.

“gang on gang violence that creates the illusion of lawlessness.“

We can only hope that the gang-on-gang violence remains lawful.

Um, essential truth?

Or just the sun’s rays making the liberals scurry?

Like my navy fighter pilot friends used to say, if you’re taking flak, you must be over the target. heh

Okay, getting far afield here, but I have a question for Casey as a basketball afficionado: Are Kobe’s free-wheeling elbows racially motivated? Manu Ginobli, Marko Jaric, Kyle Korver . . . anyone else detecting a pattern?

What are the odds that the player guarding Kobe on a given play is not African-American? I would suggest 1/6 is a fair estimate (probably closer to 1/10 or less), which means the likelihood of Kobe’s wild elbow randomly hitting three players not African-American is 1 in 216 (1/6 * 1/6 * 1/6).

Coincidence? I think not.

Maybe The Onion should look into this.

Heh

Tate:

Makes me love the NHL even more.

Kobe is a rapist.

Uh, Sparbs, you’re gay, remember?

You know, just because you sucked my cock doesn’t mean I’m gay. I was drunk, dude; let it go.

Makes me love the NHL even more.

In all its violent glory.

Makes me love the NHL even more.

In all its violent glory.

Cheer up Minneapolis! At least you got Rybek, who is considering to run for office (U.S. Senate race) in 2008.

Okay, getting far afield here, but I have a question for Casey as a basketball afficionado: Are Kobe’s free-wheeling elbows racially motivated? Manu Ginobli, Marko Jaric, Kyle Korver . . . anyone else detecting a pattern?

Coincidence? I think not.

Racially motivated? I doubt it. Kobe is just a monumental prick that probably wouldn’t dare attempt his tactics against a player that could honestly clean his clock. I absolutely detest Bryant, but I doubt his actions are motivated by racism.

Cheer up Minneapolis! At least you got Rybek, who is considering to run for office (U.S. Senate race) in 2008.

Come on, Big G, we all know you’re a big Al Frankenburger fan. In fact, I heard a rumor that you write his jokes.

Sparber posts during a dream sequence….

bud jr. wouldn’t suck a dick…I mean, he might hold it in his mouth for a while, but…

I want to see Kobe try to pull that backhand follow-through slap bullshit on Ron Artest. BTW, Kobe’s #24 jersey is currently the NBA’s top seller…and his sex with that woman was consensual until, in basketball parlance, he tried to run the high-post backdoor.

My point was most certainly not that we’ve never done anything good or that we don’t make some half-hearted attempts to cover our tracks. Look at it this way:

1) There are not enough resources in the world for everyone to live our lifestyle
2) We live like we do because we were lucky enough to be born here. If maz had been born in Africa, I suspect his life would be a lot different
3) If those two points are true, then it is necessary that there are very poor people so we can be very rich.
4) Given that, how can we close off our borders? We’re simply living in the shit we created. People are knocking at our door because our way of life takes things from them.

Now, I’ll grant that some countries are simply in different stages of development. I’m not saying that everyone would have it made if we didn’t exist. I’m saying we don’t live in a vacuum. The lives of other people are strongly affected by the way we live. Closing borders denies this. Closing borders is ethically defenisble only if we have no need to go outside them and muck around with people.

Do you really mean to tell me that Maz wasn’t born in Africa?

I don’t buy that 1) + 2) = 3). It’s not zero-sum. We don’t excell simply because we have natural resources, which are denied to others if we use them (and why they would have any moral claim upon them in the first place eludes me); we also have a traditional economic ethos that has encouraged exploration for those resources, and development of their use. Because we’ve traditionally valued innovation, research, investment in and improvement of capital equipment, and competition, we’ve progressed further in technological areas than most other societies which started far earlier than ours. We don’t find the corn and the twinkies and the PSPs and the condos laying out in some gravel pit awaiting the gatherers – we cause them to exist, and it’s the sum of the history of our investments and research and innovation that empowers us to do so.

When we develop new wheat and rice and corn strains that survive and yield more, and better and cheaper pesticides and insecticides and fertilizers, we’ve historically shared the fruits of those investments with the world, in a decidedly non-zero-sum fashion.

In short (oops, too late), we’ve done very well for ourselves, and in the process have pulled much of the world up with us. To argue that moral guilt for our success obliges us to hold off on our lunch until everyone else in the world has had breakfast sounds nice, but I don’t owe any such duty to them.

I’m not denying our technical success, but you’re ignoring the role these other countries play. Could you sustain your way of life if your clothes weren’t made by Chinese people being paid $.07 an our and living in poverty? If your coffee wasn’t basically heisted from farmers in South American? The list goes on and on. The fact remains that if we paid everyone who were making the products use a wage that would allow them to live a similar lifestyle, the entire thing would collapse. The net productivity of the world doesn’t allow for everyone to live like we do. It would be impossible. Look at everything you own and consume: do you think that the amount of man-hours that goes into all of that is anywhere near the 40 hours a week you work? It’s much, much more. We’re not rich simply because of our technical sucesses: we’re rich because of our conquests.

I’m no less guity than anyone else is. But I’m not the one saying you can work outside our borders to support our lifestyle, but you sure as hell can’t come in.

sorry for all the typos..

Look Jeffy, from your email address, it’s clear that someone’s laid a guilt trip on you. I can dig it. But look at it this way: We are the freest, wealthiest, most powerful nation in the history of the planet. We got that way for a reason. We got that way because we are a free people who are enabled to pursue life, liberty and our vision of happiness.

People risk their lives in small boats to come here fer chrissakes. But we must have an orderly immigration system to limit the flow of immigrants or we’d have 2 billion people on our doorstep by the weekend.

We have a number of immigrants on this site. Ask them why they’re here and not back in their home country. And ask them if doing it legally and using the proper procedures was worth it.

Years ago I used to volunteer to help russian jewish immigrants make the transition to this country. (No wise cracks, Max) The culture shock these people went through from living in a totalitarian state where the government controlled the economy, to a free society, was a beautiful thing to witness. I remember the time I took one family of four (mother, father, two teens) into a grocery store for the first time. They were practically in tears as they picked up food items and virtually hugged them before putting them into their cart. Helping these people was an extremely moving experience for me.

You should volunteer for a similar program Jeff. It would change your whole outlook.

I’m not against “orderly”. What got me started was bud jr. screaming “close the borders!!”

“we’re rich because of our conquests. “

I think you’re assuming more guilt than is warranted.

Say Flakee Shoes makes well-made, relatively expensive shoes. They see that a new company, Blister ShoeCo, a maker of low-cost, shoddy shoes, is starting to outsell the Flakees in some areas, mostly because of price. Flakee can cut back on the quality of its materials, and make its own shoddy shoes, but other than that, can’t find a way to boost its sales back up.

Over the border is the backward, undeveloped country of Utopistan. Utopistanis are mostly subsistence farmers, barely eking out a living raising beetabegas, which is the only crop that will grow in their primarily-volcanic-dust soil. The Catholic missionaries got there eons ago, so now everyone has twelve kids, and subsistance beetabega farming just doesn’t keep twelve kids and a goat fed. A small group of lucky stiffs are working in a foreign-owned condom factory in the one town (”stiffs” maybe being an unfortunate word choice, I guess), making $3 per day, which makes them the local gentry. (You can tell who the rich kids are, since in this Catholic-influenced area, no one really understands what they’re making, and so the rich kids all wear condoms stretched over their heads as status symbols.)

So, Flakee builds a shoe factory there. It offers jobs to the locals, paying $3 per day, just like the condom people. The jobs are all instantly filled, and yet another small group of Utopites are doing better than they were before, and Flakee can still make well-made shoes, and then charge a low enough price to attract buyers for its shoes.

In this situation, the $3/day figure is an effective shocker for someone wanting to convince Americans that Flakee’s goal is unjust exploitation. But the Utopites don’t have to function in our market – thet $3/day buys them far more, in terms of goods and opportunities, than they could attain trying to sell beetabegas to the other beetabega farmers in the area. While they’re not, like, having orgasms about working all day any more than I am, the $3 they get in trade seems to them like a good trade, one they can’t match anywhere else.

Jeff, if that $3/day was as bad, as unjust, as unfair as you imply, no one would have taken the jobs – they’d simply keep hoeing their beetabegas. Presumably, the Utopitoans look at their income from beetabegging, compare it to what Flakee will pay them, and make a decision – exercising their own free will – to trade their time and labor for Flakee’s money. If I open a factory in Duluth, offering $3/day, I’d be doing the exact same thing Flakee did, in that it wouldn’t be evil, or exploitative, )although it would just be stupid.) The main difference would be that no one would work for me.

If there’s voluntary acceptance on both sides of the trade – the trade of a day’s work for $3 – then the person deciding to take the job has decided they would be better off by doing so. If the dictator of Utopistan were ordering his serfs to work in the factory, that would be different – but that’s not the situation. Flakee has brought $3/day to Utopistan that wasn’t there before, and the price Flakee gets for its shoes back home has no significance at all to the workers – their deal stays the same no matter how much Flakee makes on the shoes.

Also consider that, if I own a nice snowmobile in Alabama, and want to sell it in my front yard, I’ll need a comfy chair, as I’ll be sitting there for a long time. But, if I drive it to Canada, I can get lots more money for it, quickly. The Canadian buyer would be paying far more than the Alabama buyer would have – and, in your scenario, this is a gross injustice to the Canadian. I submit that it’s not unfair – it’s simply realistic appraisal of the market conditions in the two places. Demand for the snowmobile in Alabama is going to be low – they probably have as many there as they need already. Not so in Canada. Similarly, a job offered in Bloomingtonprairiejordantown, MN, where unemployment is 1% (mostly because of JoeJoeBob, who would really rather just stay home and fish) is going to have to pay high to find a taker, while a job offered in Colitis, Wisconsin, (which until last year taxed business income at 90% and so now has no jobs) can pay far less and still be attractive to someone. Is it unfair to choose to put your new factory in Colitis? Your thoughts above seem to indicate that you would call it that. I guess I wouldn’t.

(Wow. That was going to be two quick paragraphs. Amphetamines ARE our friend.)